Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
That's right. It is true that it isn't branch-specific information, and that does cause a little bit of irritation for me too, but neither is Misc/developers.txt or Misc/maintainers.rst. Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). The downside is that I really like the developer docs at docs.python.org, and it would complicate the build process a bit. Georg Am 23.09.2010 06:45, schrieb Brett Cannon: A discussion occurred (w/o me) on #python-dev where moving it to Doc/ would allow it to show up at docs.python.org to perhaps get more people involved. It also allows developers to contribute to the docs w/o having to get pydotorg commit rights. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 21:29, Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. For me, keeping them in a separate space (like www.python.org/dev/) makes sense. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at acm.org A storm broke loose in my mind. --Albert Einstein ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/python-python-dev%40m.gmane.org -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:40, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). +1. Cheers, Dirkjan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: That's right. It is true that it isn't branch-specific information, and that does cause a little bit of irritation for me too, but neither is Misc/developers.txt or Misc/maintainers.rst. Agreed. I'd rather those were elsewhere as well, but I was paying less attention at the time. Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). The downside is that I really like the developer docs at docs.python.org, and it would complicate the build process a bit. Perhaps someone here knows enough about our documentation toolchain to figure out a way to generate a link from the docs to developer docs on the website. :-) I expect only a very small part of the audience for the general Python documentation CPython docs are particularly interested in the development process we use, and sending them to the website from a convenient link is not a bad thing. We won't even need a new repository to do that. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at acm.org A storm broke loose in my mind. --Albert Einstein ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:29:51 -0400 Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. Many parts of the library docs aren't version-specific either :) The dev docs may differ slightly from one version to another, for example if a version introduces some new possibilities for tooling, or far-reaching implementation changes (think Unladen Swallow). The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On 23/09/2010 11:11, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:29:51 -0400 Fred Drakefdr...@acm.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannonbr...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. Many parts of the library docs aren't version-specific either :) The dev docs may differ slightly from one version to another, for example if a version introduces some new possibilities for tooling, or far-reaching implementation changes (think Unladen Swallow). The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. +1 Michael Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:29:51 -0400 Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. Many parts of the library docs aren't version-specific either :) The dev docs may differ slightly from one version to another, for example if a version introduces some new possibilities for tooling, or far-reaching implementation changes (think Unladen Swallow). The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. Agreed with Antoine here the additional workflow/repo/build process/etc sucks Besides - who cares if only a subset of users would be interested in our workflow? If it's more than 0, and it helps bring on new contributors, who cares? If we can make it easier to maintain information, and find that information, why not do it? jesse ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. This is the key point for me. For developer controlled stuff, the easiest place to have it if we want it kept up to date is in the source tree. Second best is the wiki. Having it off in a separately managed repository (that exists for perfectly valid reasons, since a lot of the content *isn't* developer controlled) is annoying. That said, in this case, what's the advantage of the source tree over the wiki? To include it in the main docs, so people reading them offline can still see the contribution workflow? Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 08:40 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: That's right. It is true that it isn't branch-specific information, and that does cause a little bit of irritation for me too, but neither is Misc/developers.txt or Misc/maintainers.rst. Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). The downside is that I really like the developer docs at docs.python.org, and it would complicate the build process a bit. Ideally, I would really like to see the developer docs live outside the CPython source repository. There's no reason to tie the dev docs to CPython's svn merge policies, write acls, or release schedules. Given the way docs.python.org is stitched together, and the fact that we (still ;) haven't moved to a dvcs, this may not be feasible. These docs are better off in the wiki than in the source tree. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
2010/9/23 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org: On Sep 23, 2010, at 08:40 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: That's right. It is true that it isn't branch-specific information, and that does cause a little bit of irritation for me too, but neither is Misc/developers.txt or Misc/maintainers.rst. Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). The downside is that I really like the developer docs at docs.python.org, and it would complicate the build process a bit. Ideally, I would really like to see the developer docs live outside the CPython source repository. There's no reason to tie the dev docs to CPython's svn merge policies, write acls, or release schedules. Given the way docs.python.org is stitched together, and the fact that we (still ;) haven't moved to a dvcs, this may not be feasible. Are any of our docs subject to release schedules? These docs are better off in the wiki than in the source tree. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 08:40 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: That's right. It is true that it isn't branch-specific information, and that does cause a little bit of irritation for me too, but neither is Misc/developers.txt or Misc/maintainers.rst. Of course, we might consider a separate HG repository (I'm all in favor of many small repos, instead of a gigantic sandbox one). The downside is that I really like the developer docs at docs.python.org, and it would complicate the build process a bit. Ideally, I would really like to see the developer docs live outside the CPython source repository. There's no reason to tie the dev docs to CPython's svn merge policies, write acls, or release schedules. Given the way docs.python.org is stitched together, and the fact that we (still ;) haven't moved to a dvcs, this may not be feasible. These docs are better off in the wiki than in the source tree. -Barry -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 23:35:02 +1000, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. This is the key point for me. For developer controlled stuff, the easiest place to have it if we want it kept up to date is in the source tree. Second best is the wiki. Having it off in a separately managed repository (that exists for perfectly valid reasons, since a lot of the content *isn't* developer controlled) is annoying. That said, in this case, what's the advantage of the source tree over the wiki? To include it in the main docs, so people reading them offline can still see the contribution workflow? I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. I do think exposing our development process to the wider user community by including them in the main docs could foster additional community involvement, but I don't have a strong opinion on that aspect of it. For me the change is about making it easier for the dev community (who are using/creating the development infrastructure) to update the relevant documentation. -- R. David Murray www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On 23/09/2010 15:16, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 23:35:02 +1000, Nick Coghlanncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Antoine Pitrousolip...@pitrou.net wrote: The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. This is the key point for me. For developer controlled stuff, the easiest place to have it if we want it kept up to date is in the source tree. Second best is the wiki. Having it off in a separately managed repository (that exists for perfectly valid reasons, since a lot of the content *isn't* developer controlled) is annoying. That said, in this case, what's the advantage of the source tree over the wiki? To include it in the main docs, so people reading them offline can still see the contribution workflow? I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. I do think exposing our development process to the wider user community by including them in the main docs could foster additional community involvement, but I don't have a strong opinion on that aspect of it. For me the change is about making it easier for the dev community (who are using/creating the development infrastructure) to update the relevant documentation. +1 Keeping the dev docs in the development tree sounds good to me (however they are deployed to the web - but preferably automagically). Michael -- R. David Murray www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:16:01 -0400 R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 23:35:02 +1000, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: The practicality argument of being able to edit those docs without having to master a separate (pydotorg) workflow sounds quite strong to me. This is the key point for me. For developer controlled stuff, the easiest place to have it if we want it kept up to date is in the source tree. Second best is the wiki. Having it off in a separately managed repository (that exists for perfectly valid reasons, since a lot of the content *isn't* developer controlled) is annoying. That said, in this case, what's the advantage of the source tree over the wiki? To include it in the main docs, so people reading them offline can still see the contribution workflow? I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. I agree with the less official point. If our developer docs feel authoritative, people will be more encouraged to contribute. Also, the wiki in its current state looks much less polished than the Sphinx-generated docs. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:16 AM, R. David Murray wrote: I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. There are dvcs-backed wikis, for example: https://launchpad.net/wikkid :) I don't agree that the wiki feels less official, or perhaps that it *should* feel any less official. It's an important source of Pythonic information, and to me it feels much more inclusive and open. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 09:06 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: Are any of our docs subject to release schedules? I guess what I'm concerned about is this scenario: You're a developer who has the source code to Python 3.1. You read the in-tree docs to get a sense of how our development process works. Now, you're a diligent and eager new contributor so you follow those instructions to the letter. Unfortunately, Python 3.5 is the current version and we've changed key parts of the process. There's no possible way that your 3.1 in-tree docs can be updated to reflect the new process. Okay, we can tell you to get the Python 3.5 code, or probably better yet, the Python 3.6 in-development trunk, but now we've got another dilemma. If we change the process in 3.6, there will be pressure to update the docs in 3.5 and previous versions that are still officially maintained. And what about security-only versions of Python? Our development processes are *primarily* independent of Python version, so I don't think they should be tied to our source tree, and our CPython source tree at that. I suspect the version-dependent instructions will be minimal and can be handled by the rare footnotes or whatever. IMHO of course, -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) I do. I visit it as little as possible. :( ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Am 23.09.2010 16:33, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:16 AM, R. David Murray wrote: I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. There are dvcs-backed wikis, for example: https://launchpad.net/wikkid :) I don't agree that the wiki feels less official, or perhaps that it *should* feel any less official. It's an important source of Pythonic information, and to me it feels much more inclusive and open. This impression comes along with the authority of potential authors. If only the release manager can write a document, it is very official. If any committer can write, but nobody else, it feels less officical. If anybody could modify the document, it's even less official. Since anybody can write to the Python wiki, it feels not very official. It's the same reason why people often trust Wikipedia less than a printed encyclopedia. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) I have to agree with Jesse. We have too many wiki pages that are so out of date they're dangerous. They serve a purpose, and I think we should have a wiki in addition to the official documentation. This could be aggressively linked from it so people can comment on that documentation -- a commenting system like the PHP docs have would be even better, but that's been an unimplemented idea for so long that I'm not holding my hopes up. But when one person (or a small group) sits down to write the official guidelines for doing something, I think using proper revision control and so on can only help improve the docs and keep them up to date. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) I do. I visit it as little as possible. :( Bummer. There's no reason it *has* to be useless though. The Moin developer now has shell access, so if there are technical problems with wiki, like its theme, performance, or lack of features, we can get those fixed. If it's the content or organization that needs improvement, then we can recruit from the much larger Python community than those that have write access to the core svn. Let's honor and encourage folks who are really good at tending to wikis and give them the tools they need to make the wiki excellent. Of course, if the consensus is that wikis are just a waste of time and do more harm than good, then we should shut ours down. (I don't agree it is though.) -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Am 23.09.2010 16:33, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:16 AM, R. David Murray wrote: I'd *much* rather edit rst files than futz with a web interface when editing docs. The wiki also somehow feels less official. There are dvcs-backed wikis, for example: https://launchpad.net/wikkid :) I don't agree that the wiki feels less official, or perhaps that it *should* feel any less official. It's an important source of Pythonic information, and to me it feels much more inclusive and open. This impression comes along with the authority of potential authors. If only the release manager can write a document, it is very official. If any committer can write, but nobody else, it feels less officical. If anybody could modify the document, it's even less official. Since anybody can write to the Python wiki, it feels not very official. It's the same reason why people often trust Wikipedia less than a printed encyclopedia. I want to believe your theory (since I also have a feeling that some wiki pages feel less trustworthy than others) but my own use of Wikipedia makes me skeptical that this is all there is -- on many pages on important topics you can clearly tell that a lot of effort went into the article, and then I trust it more. On other places you can tell that almost nobody cared. But I never look at the names of the authors. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) I do. I visit it as little as possible. :( Bummer. There's no reason it *has* to be useless though. The Moin developer now has shell access, so if there are technical problems with wiki, like its theme, performance, or lack of features, we can get those fixed. If it's the content or organization that needs improvement, then we can recruit from the much larger Python community than those that have write access to the core svn. Let's honor and encourage folks who are really good at tending to wikis and give them the tools they need to make the wiki excellent. Of course, if the consensus is that wikis are just a waste of time and do more harm than good, then we should shut ours down. (I don't agree it is though.) -Barry To be honest; while I have a strong dislike for them - I think they work fine for unofficial sources of information, I don't think they work well for official we stand by this style information. So, no, I don't think it's totally useless, but I do think it's an information sinkhole, and I would never seriously publish anything I had to stand by to a completely public wiki personally. The larger community, however, probably finds it useful to have it as a resource, even as scattered and spottily curated as it can be - I just don't think it's a good location for official developer/development docs. I don't think we have the needed curation resources to keep on top of the willy-nilly editing wikis incur. jesse ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 16:56, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: I want to believe your theory (since I also have a feeling that some wiki pages feel less trustworthy than others) but my own use of Wikipedia makes me skeptical that this is all there is -- on many pages on important topics you can clearly tell that a lot of effort went into the article, and then I trust it more. On other places you can tell that almost nobody cared. But I never look at the names of the authors. Right -- I feel like wiki quality varies with the amount of attention spent on maintaining it. Wikis that get a lot of maintenance (or have someone devoted to wiki gardening) will be good (consistent and up to date), while wikis that are only occasionally updated, or updated without much consistency or added to without editing get to feel bad. Seems like a variation of the broken window theory. So what we really need is a way to make editing the developer docs more rewarding (or less hard) for potential authors (i.e. python committers). If putting it in a proper VCS so they can use their editor of choice would help that, that seems like a good solution. Cheers, Dirkjan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
There's no reason it *has* to be useless though. The Moin developer now has shell access, so if there are technical problems with wiki, like its theme, performance, or lack of features, we can get those fixed. If it's the content or organization that needs improvement, then we can recruit from the much larger Python community than those that have write access to the core svn. Let's honor and encourage folks who are really good at tending to wikis and give them the tools they need to make the wiki excellent. Of course, if the consensus is that wikis are just a waste of time and do more harm than good, then we should shut ours down. (I don't agree it is though.) I don't think there is (or can be) consensus about that. However, Jesse's objection is fairly widespread also, and it is not specific for wiki.python.org, or MoinMoin, but opposing Wikis as general. By nature (quick-quick), information is unorganized in a Wiki. This is what wiki advocates cite as its main feature, and wiki opponents as its main flaw. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Hello All, I am new to this list, but I have been lurking around getting a feel for the environment and processes. I had some discussion yesterday about the developer documentation as well, since it’s what I do professionally. I am a technical writer but also work in the web development arena (using Django). In fact one of my projects now is to develop a comprehensive platform for distributing online help, user documentation, etc. which I am just about to put up on BitBucket (winter ’10). Anyway, that said, with regard to Wikis. I have worked in several organizations where almost all of the development documentation was maintained on a wiki. This can be great for getting up and running with something quickly, but over time it becomes very unmanageable and confusing. What I have done in various organizations has been to create a system where an official repository is kept with all of the *official* documentation and a way for users (developers) to submit their proposals as to what they would like to add and change. These proposals are kept in a tracker where they are read and evaluated. Generally, some discussion ensues and the choices are made as to what stays published or changed. This is what the system I am writing is all about as well. It maintains the documentation, and allows for users to comment on various parts of that documentation and submit requests to change or add. The admins can then change or deny the documentation based on community response. Anyway, I am not pitching my idea or trying to hump my system but I will be releasing it before winter on BitBucket for anyone to try and distribute freely. I do however, discourage the use of wikis at all costs. It has been said that they feel loose and unofficial, and although that my not be the intent, over time this becomes reality. Anyway, thank you for your time. Warmest Regards, Steve On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman dirk...@ochtman.nlwrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 16:56, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: I want to believe your theory (since I also have a feeling that some wiki pages feel less trustworthy than others) but my own use of Wikipedia makes me skeptical that this is all there is -- on many pages on important topics you can clearly tell that a lot of effort went into the article, and then I trust it more. On other places you can tell that almost nobody cared. But I never look at the names of the authors. Right -- I feel like wiki quality varies with the amount of attention spent on maintaining it. Wikis that get a lot of maintenance (or have someone devoted to wiki gardening) will be good (consistent and up to date), while wikis that are only occasionally updated, or updated without much consistency or added to without editing get to feel bad. Seems like a variation of the broken window theory. So what we really need is a way to make editing the developer docs more rewarding (or less hard) for potential authors (i.e. python committers). If putting it in a proper VCS so they can use their editor of choice would help that, that seems like a good solution. Cheers, Dirkjan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/stevenrelliottjr1%40gmail.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
I have to agree with Jesse. We have too many wiki pages that are so out of date they're dangerous. They serve a purpose, and I think we should have a wiki in addition to the official documentation. This could be aggressively linked from it so people can comment on that documentation -- a commenting system like the PHP docs have would be even better, but that's been an unimplemented idea for so long that I'm not holding my hopes up. You must have forgotten that you lent the time machine keys to Georg, though :-) http://gsoc.jacobmason.us/blog/?p=35 http://bitbucket.org/jacobmason/sphinx-web-support http://gsoc.jacobmason.us/demo/contents Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:41:35 -0400, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 09:06 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: Are any of our docs subject to release schedules? I guess what I'm concerned about is this scenario: You're a developer who has the source code to Python 3.1. You read the in-tree docs to get a sense of how our development process works. Now, you're a diligent and eager new contributor so you follow those instructions to the letter. Unfortunately, Python 3.5 is the current version and we've changed key parts of the process. There's no possible way that your 3.1 in-tree docs can be updated to reflect the new process. Except for major changes like the transition to hg, the dev process is no more likely to change than the code base (probably less!). That is, the eager developers with the 3.1 source code are just as likely to produce a patch that won't be useful because it doesn't apply to the current maintained versions as they are to encounter a piece of the dev process that has changed enough to break what they tried to do. (In this context, the switch to hg is analogous to the switch to Python3...) Also, the existence of the docs in the repository is (IMO) for *editing* convenience. The real place a new developer will be looking at the docs is on the web site, just as the place most people (even developers, unless I miss my guess; I know I do) look for Python documentation is on the web site. And that version will be up to date. Okay, we can tell you to get the Python 3.5 code, or probably better yet, the Python 3.6 in-development trunk, but now we've got another dilemma. If we change the process in 3.6, there will be pressure to update the docs in 3.5 and previous versions that are still officially maintained. And what about security-only versions of Python? Yes, and? We update the docs of the maintained Python versions all the time. Doc backports are standard (even if Georg does most of them in batches) unless the documentation is about a new feature. The fact that even 'new features' of the dev process would also get backported is merely a detail. We don't update docs for security releases as far as I know, so I would expect we wouldn't update the dev docs either. Our development processes are *primarily* independent of Python version, so I don't think they should be tied to our source tree, and our CPython source tree at that. I suspect the version-dependent instructions will be minimal and can be handled by the rare footnotes or whatever. I don't think our development process applies to anything other than the CPython source. (At least at the moment...if we break out the stdlib that will change, but at that point the stdlib should have its own distinct development process, even if that process shares most of its features with the CPython one.) Our documentation is *primarily* independent of Python version, too, if you go by the ratio of the word count of the substantive changes from version to version to the word count of the docs as a whole :) True, the dev docs are even more independent, but I don't see that as trumping the convenience to the developers of having them in the source tree. A separate repository would also be fine, IMO. If someone can find or write the code to publish that repository to the appropriate location automatically, we could presumably do this even before the rest of the hg transition. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 07:56:19 -0700, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:47 AM, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: This impression comes along with the authority of potential authors. If only the release manager can write a document, it is very official. If any committer can write, but nobody else, it feels less officical. If anybody could modify the document, it's even less official. Since anybody can write to the Python wiki, it feels not very official. It's the same reason why people often trust Wikipedia less than a printed encyclopedia. I want to believe your theory (since I also have a feeling that some wiki pages feel less trustworthy than others) but my own use of Wikipedia makes me skeptical that this is all there is -- on many pages on important topics you can clearly tell that a lot of effort went into the article, and then I trust it more. On other places you can tell that almost nobody cared. But I never look at the names of the authors. I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Python wiki pages mostly feel like nobody cares. At least that's the case for the ones I've stumbled across. And I'd include my own contributions in that (the email-sig wiki), because I was using them as a work area and have not updated them in some time, since development is now in a code repository. If we can recruit a bunch of somebodies who *do* care, then the wiki would be much more useful. But I still don't want to edit the dev docs there, if I have a choice :) There's a reason I stopped updating the wiki as soon as I moved to a code repository. -- R. David Murray www.bitdance.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Sep 23, 2010, at 11:49 AM, R. David Murray wrote: A separate repository would also be fine, IMO. If someone can find or write the code to publish that repository to the appropriate location automatically, we could presumably do this even before the rest of the hg transition. I'm not necessarily opposed to that either. I do think the switch to hg will cause lots of churn in the dev process, ultimately for the better, but there will be experiment and change at least for the code contribution bits. I'm also not as worried about the authority of the wiki. If we get good contributors and the rest of the community starts linking to wiki urls, it will feel (more) official. Anyway, it's all kind of secondary to actually writing stuff down. wink If Brett's going to do the work, then he gets to decide. :) -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I have to agree with Jesse. We have too many wiki pages that are so out of date they're dangerous. They serve a purpose, and I think we should have a wiki in addition to the official documentation. This could be aggressively linked from it so people can comment on that documentation -- a commenting system like the PHP docs have would be even better, but that's been an unimplemented idea for so long that I'm not holding my hopes up. You must have forgotten that you lent the time machine keys to Georg, though :-) http://gsoc.jacobmason.us/blog/?p=35 http://bitbucket.org/jacobmason/sphinx-web-support http://gsoc.jacobmason.us/demo/contents But before Georg returns the keys, he should make sure to install this on docs.python.org. :-) (I like it, but it needs some work. The login page needs instructions for people who've forgotten how to use OpenID. There needs to be an introduction on how to use the comment system at the root of the site. It would be nice to allow anonymous comments (with a way for site managers to turn this off on a per-page basis). And it would be nice if there was a pop-up with snippets of comments when you mouse over a comment bubble.) -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Am 23.09.2010 16:35, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) Don't worry, as soon as my thesis is gone for good, I will have time to finally make good use of the new features in Sphinx trunk, among them the often request commenting and patching feature. The result -- I dare say -- will be the best of both worlds: no unsupervised changes in content, but the possibility of instant feedback for readers. We'll require some more people wrangling the amount of information we get, but I've got quite a few requests from the community asking for things to help the docs; now I have to refer them to the tracker, which can be less than satisfying, then I can recruit them into the comment-handling team. cheers, Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Am 23.09.2010 16:47, schrieb Guido van Rossum: On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: -1 on wiki; wikis are where good information goes off to die. Well, *all* documentation requires vigilance to remain relevant and current. I'm sure you don't think the Python wiki is useless, right? ;) I have to agree with Jesse. We have too many wiki pages that are so out of date they're dangerous. They serve a purpose, and I think we should have a wiki in addition to the official documentation. This could be aggressively linked from it so people can comment on that documentation -- a commenting system like the PHP docs have would be even better, but that's been an unimplemented idea for so long that I'm not holding my hopes up. You should read my tweets more often :) Yes, I know I promised this for last year, but this time the code is already merged, and I just need to polish and set it up on docs.python.org. cheers, Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Am 23.09.2010 16:41, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Sep 23, 2010, at 09:06 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: Are any of our docs subject to release schedules? I guess what I'm concerned about is this scenario: You're a developer who has the source code to Python 3.1. You read the in-tree docs to get a sense of how our development process works. Now, you're a diligent and eager new contributor so you follow those instructions to the letter. Unfortunately, Python 3.5 is the current version and we've changed key parts of the process. There's no possible way that your 3.1 in-tree docs can be updated to reflect the new process. That's a pity, of course; however the small amount of bug reports we get that reflects content in old (= unsupported) library documentation suggests that it would not be a problem in practice: Most people look at docs.python.org anyway. Okay, we can tell you to get the Python 3.5 code, or probably better yet, the Python 3.6 in-development trunk, but now we've got another dilemma. If we change the process in 3.6, there will be pressure to update the docs in 3.5 and previous versions that are still officially maintained. And what about security-only versions of Python? Well, with Mercurial we're supposed to check in all changes to the oldest branch they apply to. If everyone changing the dev docs keeps to that, all supported versions will have up-to-date docs. Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
If we can recruit a bunch of somebodies who *do* care, then the wiki would be much more useful. But I still don't want to edit the dev docs there, if I have a choice :) There's a reason I stopped updating the wiki as soon as I moved to a code repository. I think that there are plenty that do care; I for one would be more than happy to work on whatever documentation needs might arise for this group. I am a bit of a documentation nut, since its what I do, also I come from the Django camp where people are obsessive over documentation. I still think that wikis are not the best solution but if that is something that needs to be tightened up then it would be something that I personally would have no problem working on. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On 9/23/2010 7:41 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Our development processes are*primarily* independent of Python version, so I don't think they should be tied to our source tree, and our CPython source tree at that. I suspect the version-dependent instructions will be minimal and can be handled by the rare footnotes or whatever. +1 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 09:05, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 23, 2010, at 11:49 AM, R. David Murray wrote: A separate repository would also be fine, IMO. If someone can find or write the code to publish that repository to the appropriate location automatically, we could presumably do this even before the rest of the hg transition. I'm not necessarily opposed to that either. I do think the switch to hg will cause lots of churn in the dev process, ultimately for the better, but there will be experiment and change at least for the code contribution bits. I'm also not as worried about the authority of the wiki. If we get good contributors and the rest of the community starts linking to wiki urls, it will feel (more) official. Anyway, it's all kind of secondary to actually writing stuff down. wink If Brett's going to do the work, then he gets to decide. :) Whether it is in Doc/ or a separate Hg repo, I don't care. But I am not doing it in the wiki. While I am totally fine with wikis as a general community thing where community input and editing is good, this is not one of those cases. Our development process belongs to python-dev and thus should be influenced by its members. I do not want to have to police the dev docs after I write them because someone either disagreed or misunderstood what was expected. For something this formal and official I want pro-active instead of reactive editorial oversight. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 01:50:34 am Steven Elliott Jr wrote: What I have done in various organizations has been to create a system where an official repository is kept with all of the *official* documentation and a way for users (developers) to submit their proposals as to what they would like to add and change. [...] I do however, discourage the use of wikis at all costs. It has been said that they feel loose and unofficial, and although that my not be the intent, over time this becomes reality. Surely that depends on how widely you give write-privileges to the wiki? If you wouldn't give arbitrary people write-access to your documentation repository, why would you give them write-access to your wiki? If the wiki doesn't allow you control who has read and write access, then use a different wiki. I'm not familiar with any wiki that doesn't allow you to track and review history of the documents. Some of them are just web interfaces to standard VCSes like Mercurial. Wikipedia is now experimenting with pending changes and having stable and unstable versions of pages. I've known people to work themselves into a tizz at the thought of their developers making unauthorized changes to the documentation, while not even tracking changes to the source code *at all*, let alone reviewing the commits. This makes no sense to me at all -- if you (generic you, not you specifically) trust your developers to make changes to the source code, why not trust them to make changes to the documentation? The real problem, it seems to me, is the difficulty in getting developers to write and update documentation, not in preventing them from writing it. -- Steven D'Aprano ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 01:42:03 am Martin v. Löwis wrote: By nature (quick-quick), information is unorganized in a Wiki. This is what wiki advocates cite as its main feature, and wiki opponents as its main flaw. I've never heard wiki advocates say that, and even a cursory glace at wikis like Wikipedia disprove the idea that wikis are necessarily disorganised. Quick does not mean unstructured, disorganised or unorganised. Do you mean that the *contributors* to the wiki are disorganised, rather than the wiki itself? If so, perhaps, but again Wikipedia demonstrates that this is not necessarily the case. Wikipedia has a hierarchy of contributors. In reverse order: - anonymous editors - editors with accounts - administrators - Wikimedia Foundation, which is responsible for policy - BDFL Jimmy Wales who is ultimately responsible for setting policy One of the criticisms of Wikipedia is that it has diverged from its official aim to be the encyclopedia that anyone can edit to one where contributions from insiders, particularly the Cabal, are preferred to those of new anonymous editors. Other wikis have other policies: Citizendium and Scholarpedia are notable examples that attempt to increase the (real or perceived) reliability and accountability of their articles by prohibiting anonymous edits altogether. Despite the influence of Wikipedia, wiki does not mean open to everyone to edit without supervision. -- Steven D'Aprano ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
Georg Brandl writes: You should read my tweets more often :) Now *there* is an innovation that never should have happened! At least you're bringing up the average quality with every twit I mean tweet. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. For me, keeping them in a separate space (like www.python.org/dev/) makes sense. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at acm.org A storm broke loose in my mind. --Albert Einstein ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving the developer docs?
A discussion occurred (w/o me) on #python-dev where moving it to Doc/ would allow it to show up at docs.python.org to perhaps get more people involved. It also allows developers to contribute to the docs w/o having to get pydotorg commit rights. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 21:29, Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: the first thing on the agenda is a complete rewrite of the developer docs and moving them into the Doc/ directory I'd like to know why you think moving the developer docs into the CPython tree makes sense. My own thought here is that they're not specific to the version of Python, though some of the documentation deals with the group of specific branches being maintained. For me, keeping them in a separate space (like www.python.org/dev/) makes sense. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at acm.org A storm broke loose in my mind. --Albert Einstein ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
