Re: [Python-Dev] StreamHandler eating exceptions

2005-10-31 Thread Vinay Sajip
Gustavo Niemeyer gustavo at niemeyer.net writes: The StreamHandler available under the logging package is currently catching all exceptions under the emit() method call. In the Handler.handleError() documentation it's mentioned that it's implemented like that because users do not care about

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Steve Holden
Adam Olsen wrote: On 10/30/05, François Pinard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, everything is in French. Some of the developers here have had a long programming life,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Steve Holden
Josiah Carlson wrote: [...] Perhaps I didn't make it clear. The difference between wxPython's Grid and my table is that in the table, most values are *computed*. This means that there's no point in changing the values themselves. They are also used frequently as set members (I can describe why,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Oren Tirosh
On 10/31/05, Antoine Pitrou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It allows everything in Python to be both mutable and hashable, I don't understand, since it's already the case. Any user-defined object is at the same time mutable and hashable. By default, user-defined objects are equal iff they are the

Re: [Python-Dev] i18n identifiers (was: Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Steve Holden wrote: Therefore, if such steps are really going to be considered, I would really like to see them introduced in such a way that no breakage occurs for existing users, even the parochial ones who feel they (and their programs) don't need to understand anything but ASCII. It is

Re: [Python-Dev] i18n identifiers

2005-10-31 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Steve Holden wrote: Therefore, if such steps are really going to be considered, I would really like to see them introduced in such a way that no breakage occurs for existing users, even the parochial ones who feel they (and their programs) don't need to understand

[Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Martin Blais
Hi I find myself occasionally doing this: ... = dirname(dirname(dirname(p))) I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, something that would be like this: # apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p ... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) There is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 352 Transition Plan

2005-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
I've made a final pass over PEP 352, mostly fixing the __str__, __unicode__ and __repr__ methods to behave more reasonably. I'm all for accepting it now. Does anybody see any last-minute show-stopping problems with it? As always, http://python.org/peps/pep-0352.html -- --Guido van Rossum (home

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
Hello, I have slept quite well, and talked about it with a few people, and I still think I'm right. About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: Again, user semantics. Tell your users not to modify entries, and/or you can make copies of objects you return. If your users are too daft to

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Aahz
On Mon, Oct 31, 2005, Martin Blais wrote: There is a way to hack something like that with reduce, but it's not pretty--it involves creating a temporary list and a lambda function: ... = reduce(lambda x, y: dirname(x), [p] + [None] * 3) Just wondering, does anybody know how to do this

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Josiah Carlson
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josiah Carlson wrote: [...] Perhaps I didn't make it clear. The difference between wxPython's Grid and my table is that in the table, most values are *computed*. This means that there's no point in changing the values themselves. They are also used

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Josiah Carlson
Noam Raphael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have slept quite well, and talked about it with a few people, and I still think I'm right. And I'm going to point out why you are wrong. About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: Again, user semantics. Tell your users not to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
On 10/31/05, Josiah Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... And I'm going to point out why you are wrong. I still don't think so. I think that I need to reclarify what I mean. About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: ... You can have a printout before it dies: I'm crashing your program

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Paul Moore
On 10/31/05, Martin Blais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, something that would be like this: # apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p ... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) [...] Just wondering, does anybody

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
I thought about something - I think that the performance penalty may be rather small - remember that in programs which do not change strings, there would never be a need to copy the string data at all. And since I think that usually most of the dict lookups are for method or function names,

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
Help! What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somewhere in June. I tried to fix

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Tim Peters
[Guido] Help! What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somewhere in June. I

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread François Pinard
[Guido van Rossum] What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon checkin? Expansion does not occur on checkin, but on checkout, and even then, only in your copy -- that one you see (the internal Subversion copy is untouched). You have to edit a property for the file where

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Gary Herron
Guido van Rossum wrote: Help! What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somewhere

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Greg Ewing
François Pinard wrote: All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, everything is in French. There's nothing stopping you from creating your own Frenchified version of Python that lets you use all the

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Greg Ewing
Martin Blais wrote: I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, something that would be like this: # apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p ... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) Maybe ** should be defined for functions so that you could do

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread François Pinard
[Greg Ewing] All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, everything is in French. There's nothing stopping you from creating your own Frenchified version of Python that lets you use all the