Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 28.02.2016 18:46, Georg Brandl wrote:
> On 02/27/2016 11:45 PM, Matthias Bussonnier wrote:
>> Hi all, 
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 14:21, Alexander Walters >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Can we even ask github to pull it down and reasonably expect them to comply?
>>>  Their entire model is built on everyone forking everyone else.
>>
>> Why the model is everyone forking, some of the help page of GitHub actually 
>> tell
>> you to contact GitHub support, like if you desire to "detach" a fork. 
>>
>> Every reasonable requests I made to GitHub and the few interactions I had 
>> with
>> the support always went well. 
>> This did include asking GitHub to contact user as their pages were confusing,
>> and might be misleading others.
>>
>> So I would suggest 
>>
>> 1) asking GitHub to contact author, potentially forwarding him/her a message
>> from this list asking him/her to bring that down or transfer the control to 
>> you.
>> That should be easy to do as it will not force GitHub to provide anyone with 
>> the
>> emails of the the owner of python-git.
>>
>> 2) in the case of no response from author ask politely GitHub that the repo 
>> is
>> confusing for user, and ask what they can do about that.
> 
> These are both fine.  Although I don't see much confusion; there's bound to be
> hundreds of forks of CPython, if not already, then definitely once we move to
> GitHub.
> 
>> 3) If still nothing can be done make a DMCA request. You can likely argue 
>> that
>> the logo/name are used without PSF content. 
>> https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown-policy/ 
> 
> Please no.  There is absolutely no call using such a blunt instrument, just 
> for
> a case of minor inconvenience.  It could also be blown up into a PR disaster,
> probably rightly so.

I frankly don't understand what all the fuzz is about. The repo
in question hasn't been touched in 7 years. It refers to Python 2.7
alpha 0.

It also clearly reads "Unofficial Python SVN auto-updating mirror",
so there's no confusion either.

The talk about DMCA requests really doesn't apply. Python is
open-source. Anyone can fork it, at any version they like, as
long as the license is respected.

The trademark use is also perfectly in line with our TM policy.
The logo is a bit blurred, but that's really the only nit I could
find.

Asking the owner to take the repo down is still a good thought,
but there's definitely nothing wrong with it per se.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Feb 28 2016)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello,

On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:46:36 +0100
Georg Brandl  wrote:

[]

> > 3) If still nothing can be done make a DMCA request. You can likely
> > argue that the logo/name are used without PSF content. 
> > https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown-policy/ 
> 
> Please no.  There is absolutely no call using such a blunt
> instrument, just for a case of minor inconvenience.  It could also be
> blown up into a PR disaster, probably rightly so.

I can't believe my eyes that I read such a thread already. The poor
repo clearly states it's unofficial mirror. Some dudes without much
clue (*1) submit pull requests against it. So what - someone getting
jealous? Well deserved - there could have been support for the leading
version control system and very popular hosting site long, long
ago.

But well, if you want those pull requests, go and add friendly note to
each along the lines "Hi, you submitted your PR against unattended,
unofficial mirror, there's now official Py repo at ..., we encourage
you to resubmit your patch against it". Nope, shutdown/exterminate.


*1: See username of the submitter of
https://github.com/python-git/python/issues/12

> 
> cheers,
> Georg

-- 
Best regards,
 Paul  mailto:pmis...@gmail.com
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:07 AM, Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 09:58 Chris Angelico  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Georg Brandl  wrote:
>> > Although I don't see much confusion; there's bound to be
>> > hundreds of forks of CPython, if not already, then definitely once we
>> > move to
>> > GitHub.
>>
>> Forks made within the GitHub interface aren't usually confusing. Up
>> the top of this repo, you can see where its upstream is, and therefore
>> where you would go to find the official version of this project:
>>
>> https://github.com/Rosuav/appension
>>
>> So a fork-esque that predates the official repo is a different beast.
>> +1 for asking GitHub to contact the owner, since it's not
>> intrinsically obvious who's maintaining that.
>
>
> Since this isn't being pushy I'm +1 as well. But who's going to ask?

Someone who has the authority to represent Python, I hope. A member of
the PSF board?

ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Brett Cannon]

On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 09:58 Chris Angelico  wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Georg Brandl  wrote:
> > Although I don't see much confusion; there's bound to be
> > hundreds of forks of CPython, if not already, then definitely once we
> move to
> > GitHub.
>
> Forks made within the GitHub interface aren't usually confusing. Up
> the top of this repo, you can see where its upstream is, and therefore
> where you would go to find the official version of this project:
>
> https://github.com/Rosuav/appension
>
> So a fork-esque that predates the official repo is a different beast.
> +1 for asking GitHub to contact the owner, since it's not
> intrinsically obvious who's maintaining that.
>

Since this isn't being pushy I'm +1 as well. But who's going to ask?
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Georg Brandl  wrote:
> Although I don't see much confusion; there's bound to be
> hundreds of forks of CPython, if not already, then definitely once we move to
> GitHub.

Forks made within the GitHub interface aren't usually confusing. Up
the top of this repo, you can see where its upstream is, and therefore
where you would go to find the official version of this project:

https://github.com/Rosuav/appension

So a fork-esque that predates the official repo is a different beast.
+1 for asking GitHub to contact the owner, since it's not
intrinsically obvious who's maintaining that.

ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Georg Brandl]

On 02/27/2016 11:45 PM, Matthias Bussonnier wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 14:21, Alexander Walters > > wrote:
>>
>> Can we even ask github to pull it down and reasonably expect them to comply?
>>  Their entire model is built on everyone forking everyone else.
> 
> Why the model is everyone forking, some of the help page of GitHub actually 
> tell
> you to contact GitHub support, like if you desire to "detach" a fork. 
> 
> Every reasonable requests I made to GitHub and the few interactions I had with
> the support always went well. 
> This did include asking GitHub to contact user as their pages were confusing,
> and might be misleading others.
> 
> So I would suggest 
> 
> 1) asking GitHub to contact author, potentially forwarding him/her a message
> from this list asking him/her to bring that down or transfer the control to 
> you.
> That should be easy to do as it will not force GitHub to provide anyone with 
> the
> emails of the the owner of python-git.
> 
> 2) in the case of no response from author ask politely GitHub that the repo is
> confusing for user, and ask what they can do about that.

These are both fine.  Although I don't see much confusion; there's bound to be
hundreds of forks of CPython, if not already, then definitely once we move to
GitHub.

> 3) If still nothing can be done make a DMCA request. You can likely argue that
> the logo/name are used without PSF content. 
> https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown-policy/ 

Please no.  There is absolutely no call using such a blunt instrument, just for
a case of minor inconvenience.  It could also be blown up into a PR disaster,
probably rightly so.

cheers,
Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Senthil Kumaran]

> On Feb 27 2016, at 2:47 pm, Ian Lee ianlee1...@gmail.com wrote:  

>

> Perhaps the better / easier solution is to promote the *real* “Sem-official
read-only mirror of the Python Mercurial repository” [1] ? And perhaps this
goes away entirely (in time) with PEP-512 [2]?  

  

We will be working to promote the github repo, once the migration and PEP-512
is complete.

Promoting semi-official repo in the interim (as opposed the active one in
hg.python.org) does not seem like a good idea.

  

This thread about claiming ownership of look-alike repo and we could
concentrate our discussion on that alone.

  

FWIW, that old look-alike (python-dev) repo as been in existence for years now
and it has not caused any confusion. Once python moves to github, I think, we
can ask for some logo or some kind of validation that will help users easily
identify the originality.

  

  

Thanks,

Senthil

  

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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Ian Lee]

> On Feb 27, 2016, at 14:21, Alexander Walters  wrote:
> 
> Can we even ask github to pull it down and reasonably expect them to comply?  
> Their entire model is built on everyone forking everyone else.

As a data point — I had a pretty good experience with GitHub helping me out 
when I was trying to reclaim an organization using my company name. In that 
case it turned out that they just gave me the contact for the person and I 
worked it out from there, but it’d seemed like they were willing to take a 
more… forceful approach if it was needed.

Perhaps the better / easier solution is to promote the *real* “Sem-official 
read-only mirror of the Python Mercurial repository” [1] ? And perhaps this 
goes away entirely (in time) with PEP-512 [2]?

[1] https://github.com/python/cpython 
[2] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0512/ 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Matthias Bussonnier]

Hi all, 


> On Feb 27, 2016, at 14:21, Alexander Walters  wrote:
> 
> Can we even ask github to pull it down and reasonably expect them to comply?  
> Their entire model is built on everyone forking everyone else.

Why the model is everyone forking, some of the help page of GitHub actually 
tell you to contact GitHub support, like if you desire to "detach" a fork. 

Every reasonable requests I made to GitHub and the few interactions I had with 
the support always went well. 
This did include asking GitHub to contact user as their pages were confusing, 
and might be misleading others.

So I would suggest 

1) asking GitHub to contact author, potentially forwarding him/her a message 
from this list asking him/her to bring that down or transfer the control to you.
That should be easy to do as it will not force GitHub to provide anyone with 
the emails of the the owner of python-git.

2) in the case of no response from author ask politely GitHub that the repo is 
confusing for user, and ask what they can do about that.

3) If still nothing can be done make a DMCA request. You can likely argue that 
the logo/name are used without PSF content. 
https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown-policy/ 
 

This would likely have more impact if sent from someone part of 
https://github.com/python 

-- 
M




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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Alexander Walters]

Can we even ask github to pull it down and reasonably expect them to 
comply?  Their entire model is built on everyone forking everyone else.


On 2/27/2016 06:25, Mathieu Dupuy wrote:

Ahah. Obtaining his electronic coordinates like email to gently ask
him to pull it down by himself (otherwise we open fire). Because
having Github suddenly destroying the repo, even though the man
probably forgot about its existence might be a bit rude from the
polite people python developers are.

2016-02-16 4:27 UTC+08:00, Oleg Broytman :

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 09:16:56AM +1300, Greg Ewing
 wrote:

Mathieu Dupuy wrote:

A python representative (like Guido himself) should contact Github to
obtain coordinates of the owner...

...and then order a drone strike on him?

Yes, and then pry the repo from his cold dead fingers.

Well, I hope prying can be done without striking first. ;-)


--
Greg

Oleg.
--
  Oleg Broytmanhttp://phdru.name/p...@phdru.name
Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Mathieu Dupuy]

Ahah. Obtaining his electronic coordinates like email to gently ask
him to pull it down by himself (otherwise we open fire). Because
having Github suddenly destroying the repo, even though the man
probably forgot about its existence might be a bit rude from the
polite people python developers are.

2016-02-16 4:27 UTC+08:00, Oleg Broytman :
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 09:16:56AM +1300, Greg Ewing
>  wrote:
>> Mathieu Dupuy wrote:
>> >A python representative (like Guido himself) should contact Github to
>> >obtain coordinates of the owner...
>>
>> ...and then order a drone strike on him?
>
>Yes, and then pry the repo from his cold dead fingers.
>
>Well, I hope prying can be done without striking first. ;-)
>
>> --
>> Greg
>
> Oleg.
> --
>  Oleg Broytmanhttp://phdru.name/p...@phdru.name
>Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Oleg Broytman]

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 09:16:56AM +1300, Greg Ewing 
 wrote:
> Mathieu Dupuy wrote:
> >A python representative (like Guido himself) should contact Github to
> >obtain coordinates of the owner...
> 
> ...and then order a drone strike on him?

   Yes, and then pry the repo from his cold dead fingers.

   Well, I hope prying can be done without striking first. ;-)

> -- 
> Greg

Oleg.
-- 
 Oleg Broytmanhttp://phdru.name/p...@phdru.name
   Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Greg Ewing]

Mathieu Dupuy wrote:
A python representative (like Guido himself) should contact Github to 
obtain coordinates of the owner...


...and then order a drone strike on him?

--
Greg
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Re: [Python-Dev] Very old git mirror under github user "python-git"

[Mathieu Dupuy]

A python representative (like Guido himself) should contact Github to
obtain coordinates of the owner, and maybe have them pulling it down if he
doesn't answer.
The pull requests it's attracting are old and/or of low value.

2016-02-10 6:30 GMT+10:30 John Mark Vandenberg :

> Does anyone know who controls this mirror, which is attracting pull
> requests?
>
> https://github.com/python-git/python/pulls
>
> Can it be pulled down to avoid confusion, since it is using Python's logo?
>
> https://github.com/python-git
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
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