> think about 75% of the time "why are they doing this silly approach?" and 25%
> "this is easy enough as is." None of them made me think "I wish I had a
> method/function."___
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A proposal for a new tool to be implemented -
It is often the case that developer write Code in Python and then
convert to a C extension module for performance regions.
A C extension module has a lot of boiler plate code - for instance the
Structures required for each class, the functions
Hopefully this is not a duplicate of an existing thread or in the wrong
section, first time posting here.
In Python, array multiplication is quite useful to repeat an existing array,
e.g. [1,2,3] * 2 becomes [1,2,3,4,5,6].
Multiplication by 0 yields an empty array: [1,2,3] * 0 becomes
Thanks for your response. While legacy production code is always an issue with
potentially breaking changes, this line of thought would mean that future
versions of Python could never introduce breaking changes. This should not be
the case and is not the case now: for new Python versions
programmers' part and Python's lack of strict typing. However, raising an
error on negative multiplication would immediately make it clear what is wrong,
instead of hiding it.
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Unpickler)
as sh:
squared = lambda x: x ** 2
sh['test_key'] = squared
I could easily solve this problem I had while using the Shelve module. I
believe that shelve module will be a more useful module by adding support for
custom unpickler and pickler.
Kindest regards,
Furkan Onder_
cisions, but it seems if this really is only a
couple of lines, and all the test cases pass this (or something very
similar) should be a considered for 3.12.
Thank you Noah,
-- Original Message --
From: "Noah Kim"
To: python-ideas@python.org
Sent: Saturday, 11 Feb, 23 At 00:
Though this has been discussed before, the last detailed discussion appears to
have been roughly 9 years ago.
YAML is a technical standard widely used in various projects and at least two
major ones (Ansible and containers).
Though PyYAML has become ubiquitous as the primary Python solution to
This is my first post to this list, apologies in advance if this is the wrong
place or it's a known topic that my search failed to find.
As a Python user since 2.6, I make stupid mistakes with exhausted generators
more often than I'd like to admit:
numbers = (i for i in range(5))
as
empty list.
BoppreH
On Mon, Jun 12, 2023, at 10:11 PM, Barry wrote:
>
>
> > On 12 Jun 2023, at 16:55, BoppreH via Python-ideas
> > wrote:
> >
> > Then the empty list creates hard-to-track bugs. I'm familiar with the
> > iterator protocol and why the
via Python-ideas wrote:
> > Also the OP's request was for generators, not for any iterator.
>
> IMO it would be a bad idea to make generators behave differently
> from other iterators in this regard. And it's far too late to
> redefine the iterator protocol in general, becaus
would already be helpful, like
Go's race condition detector.
--
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Message archived at
http
> In close to 10 years of experience with python I have never encountered
> anything like this.
Here's a small selection of the StackOverflow questions from people who
encountered this exact issue:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25336726/why-cant-i-iterate-twice-over-the-same-i
Sorry, I'm new to the list and was not aware the burden of proof was so high.
Can you point me to one or two successful posts in Python-ideas where I can
learn how to show there's a real need for a feature?
On Tue, Jun 13, 2023, at 11:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jun
I'd love to stay and improve the points you mentioned, but to be honest I
started regretting this thread when the first reply was a counter-example that
didn't work. And then Chris' messages started rolling in. If anybody wants to
take the idea forward, be my guest.
___
ll then no parser is clever
enough to diagnose all possible side effects of calling bar() twice, or
even detect that bar can be cached, so it will always be called twice.
In Python then a better way might be
result = temp := bar() if temp else default
This way only bar() and default are evaluated a
On 19/10/2023 18.29, Dom Grigonis wrote:
def __get__(self, instance, owner):
def __set__(self, instance, value):
Is there a reason why `__set__` does not have owner in it’s arguments
while `__get__` does?
Is this a Python Idea?
You may have only given us a couple of lines, when the scope
, but it is
significantly easier to understand than what we had to do 'before'.
Another surprise, and I've assumed you're asking in the context of
[Custom] Descriptors, is in how many places/functions Python makes use
of a descriptor/descriptor protocol. Yet few of us seem
On 19/10/2023 20.43, Dom Grigonis wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023, at 10:27, dn via Python-ideas wrote:
On 19/10/2023 19.50, Dom Grigonis wrote:
Thank you,
Good information, thank you. Was not aware of __set_name__.
IIRC that was one of the updates/improvements. Thanks to whomsoever...!
The
o the user_name variable will only have the name 'person_name',
but not user_name, as the field objects need to know their names on the
model (and their names on the views/forms).
-- Original Message --
From: "Rene Nejsum"
To: python-ideas@python.org
Sent: Saturday,
dress this
issue?
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> From: Paul Bryan via Python-ideas
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 12:06 PM
> To: python-ideas@python.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Python-ideas] PEP 533 Redux?
> I've now encountered an issue I believe that PEP 533 was intended to
> address:
>
> When
g to me, though it's only O(n*d) where d is the nesting depth, not
O(n^2)):
https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3bf05327c2b25d42b92795d9d280288c22a0963d/Objects/object.c#L1974
copy.deepcopy keeps track with a dict:
https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3bf05327c2b25d42b92795d9d280288c22a0963
gt;>
>>> There're tons of projects which introduce alternative braces
>>> (i.e. C-like) syntax for Python. Most of them are however not
>>> properly documented, and definitely not spec'ed for what they do.
>>>
>>> I wonder, does anyone here
2nd level miss about this miss. I'm not the 1st
>>> asking about braces in Python, hundreds of people embraced braces
>>> (sorry for the pun) in Python for decades (references are in other
>>> messages of this thread). Apparently, they forgot to ask for
>>> &q
re would be no backwards incompatibility.
>
> If we want to get really crazy we can also allow an "open for" loop
> and kick off a very long deprecation process where eventually an
> unadorned for loop would become "closed" by default.
>
> Thanks,
> B
dataclass
decorator parameter like "init_kwonly" (default=False to provide
backward compatibility) that if True would implement this behavior.
Thoughts?
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The main benefits of this proposal:
- the order of fields (those with defaults, those without) is
irrelevant
- don't need to pedantically add default = None for Optional values
On Sun, 2021-01-24 at 19:46 +, Paul Bryan via Python-ideas wrote:
> I've created a helper class in m
Eric
> On 1/24/2021 3:07 PM, Paul Bryan via Python-ideas wrote:
>
> The main benefits of this proposal:
>
> - the order of fields (those with defaults, those without) is
> irrelevant
> - don't need to pedantically add default = None for Optional values
>
&
want to illustrate this with a bit of actual code from one of my
programs. It uses lines up to 102 characters including 12-space
indentation. Oh, and it breaks another Python shibboleth - not having
multiple statements on one line. Apologies, it looks horrible in an
e-mail with the spacing
re treated similarly*. This is just an
amorphous mass of code that I find much harder to grok. (YMMV but I find
it hard to imagine.)
Rules are all very well, but "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of
Little Minds" [PEP 8]
Best wishes
Rob
PS Can anyone shed any light on why Alt-R d
d.process_keystroke(ch)
Of course, you'd need this kind of "switch" construct in the object
class anyway. Unless you wanted to get really wordy, and have:
def process_A(self..)
...
def process_B(self...)
...
you could be a bit saved in Python:
getattr(selected_object, "
I'd like '->' much better than '=>'.
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Me
_function = def x, y: x * y
That seems sensible, if there is no syntactical ambiguity.
Parentheses on the parameter list could be allowed as well.
Yes please! That is a feature of Python 2 that I miss in Python 3.
Javascript has (too much) flexibility in this area, but I wouldn't
27;re appropriate*; I've done it many times.)
I'm not sure I'd call it "tricks" -- but anyway, I've found that big
nested ifelses are rarely the cleanest solution -- but not never.
- Chris B.
--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
Python Language Consulting
- Tea
None of the other names IMO convey the
intended/suggested use nearly as well.
Rob Cliffe
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nverters such as pyupgrade will be quick to replace lambdas (and
people publishing libraries will have to wait until the EOL of the
older versions of Python before being able to run it).
And if, otherwise, there is no such consensus, the change will never
happen.
Same as u"xxx" ver
On 24/02/2021 14:04, Random832 wrote:
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, at 17:01, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
As far as I know, there is no case of valid syntax using 'lambda' where
replacing 'lambda' by 'def' results in valid syntax.
Can anyone provide a counter-ex
Hi,
It's becoming more popular in Python to have interfaces which are built around
method chaining as a way of applying operations to data. For example in pandas
is moving more towards a default model where methods do not change the object
in-place but instead return an altered version (or
Python is the
ability to query, introspect, and modify Python code. It helps with
debugging, with experimenting, with fixing. Indeed, one of the few
frustrating bits about Python is the inability to work with the C
portions as easily as the Python portions (note: I am /not/ suggesting
we do
for a in f1():
for b in f2():
yield (a, b)
```
Would others find this useful? Are there any drawbacks I'm missing?
Best,
Alastair
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> On 18 Mar 2021, at 11:07, Maxime Mouchet wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Python supports IPv4-mapped IPv6 addresses as defined by RFC 4038:
> "the IPv6 address :::x.y.z.w represents the IPv4 address x.y.z.w.”
>
> The current behavior is as follows:
>
>
d be less helpful.
Rob Cliffe
There are situations (e.g. monkey patch) where this is not obvious. Would be
great detail to include that in the traceback, I think.
Best
Pol
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x27;{x} is {x!lc} in lowercase'
just by registering 'lc' as a conversion from my code. Chaining then per
Serhiy's other suggestion would bring a fair amount of power.
Cheers,
Cameron Simpson
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wanted to use a stronger expression) is an SaaS? I'd never heard of it.
OK, Google told we what it stood for, but I don't feel any the wiser.
Rob Cliffe
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For those cases where you're merging literal parts and generated
parts, it may be of value to use an f-string:
>>> f"[{','.join('0123')}]"
'[0,1,2,3]'
The part in the braces is evaluated as Python code, and the
On 02/05/2021 20:07, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
Oh seems like you are a dinosaur needing some carbon
dating.
Thanks for the insult.
Rob Cliffe
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ully understand the proposal and how it would be
implemented, but IMO adding an overhead (not to mention more complicated
semantics) to *every* chained attribute lookup is enough to kill the
proposal, given that it seems to have relatively slight benefits.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
__
ror as err
How long will it be before people, fooled by the similarity to other
uses of `as`, try writing this:
except ValueError as verr, KeyError as kerr, TypeError as terr
and how soon after that before people propose it as an actual feature?
but the editor won't show
it up (s
F(1,2) ?
Rob Cliffe
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try:
>element = some_list[index]/divisor
>except ZeroDivisionError:
>element = 0 # It will make element zero if divisor is zero,
> but it will not except IndexError in case index is out of range for
> some_list
> *Can be rewritten as:*
>e
On Sunday, May 23, 2021, 02:23:05 PM GMT+1, Shivam Saini
wrote:
>> Like the first example in which I am sending an log, which isn't important.
If the log is not important, then why are you sending it?
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high.
But then on the other hand, who would ever want to change the value of
pi?
Surely you recall the Indiana Pi Bill?
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fused as to what the proposal is as anybody
else.
Rob Cliffe
On 26/05/2021 14:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:53:32PM -, Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
I've already given one. Since Python is dynamically typed changing a critical
variable can cause huge instability. Wa
the end of the
> program. Well Python also kind of has that functionality. Python's default
> values provide the same type of functionality but it's a *hack* and also
> *problematic* because only mutable types that are mutated persists. Static
> should behave much like Python
On 26/05/2021 08:25, Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
Reply to Chris:
There are two things I want to say about constants :-
1) Global-Local Constants - The ALL_CAPS convention variables should become
constant.
Good luck enforcing that on every Python programmer. Should it apply to
variable names
ck by caching values in the VM.
Ronald
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> On 27 May 2021, at 11:42, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:20 PM Ronald Oussoren via Python-ideas
> wrote:
>> On 27 May 2021, at 09:56, Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
>>
>>> Static should behave much like Python's for loop variable
o locals than globals and builtins, or at least
> no worse. So it is a fair expectation that any time you can turn a
> global lookup into a local lookup, you should have some performance
> benefit.
It is a performance hack regardless. There are other solutions possible,
includi
> On 27 May 2021, at 18:15, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 04:53:17PM +0200, Ronald Oussoren via Python-ideas
> wrote:
>
>> Statics are still hidden global state
>
> How are they *global* state when they are specific to an individual
>
will be
better received by more if the type hint is required?).
Please, please, please, don't ever make type hints *required*! Some of
us are perfectly happy not using them (and not having to learn them)!
Rob Cliffe
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See this issue: https://bugs.python.org/issue31299
On Saturday, May 29, 2021, 07:19:32 PM GMT+1, André Roberge
wrote:
With CPython, tracebacks obtained from code written in C can be extremely
clean compared with functionally equivalent code written in Python. Consider
the
;
spam # No problem
Rob Cliffe
But this is introducing a new multiline
syntax, and it makes no more sense to take away the
second line and expect a naked decorator to be valid
than it does remove the decorator and expect the
naked identifier to be valid.
______
ré Roberge
wrote:
What I am interested in is having a project-agnostic standardised Python way to
specify what to show to an end-user when an exception is raised.
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I am concerned that we have too many string formatting methods:
% formatting
.format()
f-strings
string templates
(are there others I've missed?).
And now we have another proposed one.
It's all getting a bit much. And IMO a turnoff for people learning
Python (which on
nti-pattern and how
to correct it.
So I propose moving (eventually) to the same system with lists as for
strings. Or else removing the performance trip-hazard from the sum
function with lists.
Best regards,
Oliver
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On 18/06/2021 16:42, Mathew Elman wrote:
I don't see how allowing
[x, y for x in a]
follows from allowing
[*chunk for chunk in list_of_lists].
Nor do I.
Rob Cliffe
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ent against [*chunk
for ...], but it does show that there's no straightforward explanation
of its meaning through equivalence (like the OP seemed to think), and
I think this is what Serhiy was also getting at in his post.
__
[1] Does the unary star operator have a name when used li
say I created a
library that builds html from python code, with a nice builder interface:
class Html:
def __init__(self):
self.__items = []
def add_p(self, text):
self.__items.append(text)
return self
def add_h1(self, text):
self.__i
On 24/06/2021 12:44, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/24/21 7:09 AM, Simão Afonso wrote:
On 2021-06-24 20:59:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Seriously, there's a time to realise when arguments against a feature
devolve down to utterly spurious claims that Python programmers are
idiots w
rd by reusing one that can't go
there, like except?
for i in range(0,10) except (2, 8):
don't know if it is actually worth it, but at least it doesn't add a new
keyword.
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On 02/07/2021 08:12, Thomas Güttler wrote:
Hi Nick and all other Python ideas friends,
yes, you are right. There is not much difference between PEP-501 or my
proposal.
One argument why I would like to prefer backticks:
Some IDEs detect that you want to use a f-string automatically:
You
Hi,
Le 7/11/21 à 6:19 PM, sharifmehed...@outlook.com a écrit :
> I am preparing a team to start translating python documentation to Bengali.
>
> I'd appreciate some reference materials, comments and ideas about this.
Looks like [1] Kushal Das is the current contact for Benga
ion of that). For
> instance:
>
> domain.findsuffix((".fr", ".com", ".org"))
>
> ChrisA
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't understand why my comment
> about "can be used eg for indexing" was being quoted for context
> there. I was talking about how you could do something like this:
>
> protocol = ("ws:", "wss:")[url.startswith("https:")]
>
> If the return value changes, this breaks.
> On 8 Aug 2021, at 18:53, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
>
> 08.08.21 07:08, Stephen J. Turnbull пише:
>> Serhiy Storchaka writes:
>>
>>> Python integers have arbitrary precision. For serialization and
>>> interpolation with other programs and libraries we nee
On 16/08/2021 16:54, Mebale Tsige Araya wrote:
> Is there anybody who can help me, please? Can I run Python codes on
> Browser, please? If so could you have any idea how to run my codes on
> Browser?
Your question could mean several different things. I'll give
very brief answers
g/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines>
>
>
> Is there a reason why we can't just link to the Wayback Machine
copy like
> you did here?
>
> >
> >
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Hi all,
The Programming Recommendations section in PEP-8 states
"For sequences, (strings, lists, tuples), use the fact that empty sequences are
false:"
# Correct:
if not seq:
if seq:
# Wrong:
if len(seq):
if not len(seq):
In the talk "When Python Practices Go
u have to
change a check `if values` to `if len(values) == 0`. That works for both but is
against the PEP8 recommendation. This is a shortcoming of the language.
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My conclusion (and thus proposal) differs from the video.
On a technical level, everything can be solved with the current language
capabilities. The main advantage is clearer semantics (explicit is better /
readability counts):
- Re bool: As experienced python users we are used to translate `if not
empty()" method. However,
defining a method downstream breaks duck typing and maybe even more important
authors have to mentally switch between the two empty-check variants `if users`
and `if users.is_empty()` depending on the context.
Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 8/23/21 1:15 PM, Tim
Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 8/23/21 2:31 PM, Tim Hoffmann via Python-ideas wrote:
> > Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > It seems to me that the appropriate fix is for numpy to have an
> > > "is_empty()" function
> > that knows how to deal with arrays and array-like
, even if it did exist.
As written in another post here, `len(container) == 0` is on a lower
abstraction level than `isempty(container)`.
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hird party libs to adopt that convention as well.
That would give a uniform syntax by convention.
Reflecting the discussion in this thread, I now favor variant 3).
Tim
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Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 8/24/21 3:03 PM, Tim Hoffmann via Python-ideas wrote:
> > **How do you check if a container is empty?**
> > IMHO the answer should not depend on the container.
> I think this is the fly in the ointment -- just about everything, from len()
> to bo
m with that).
But "bool(c)" should mean "c is empty" is an arbitrary additional constraint.
For some types (e.g. numpy, padas) that cannot be fulfilled in a logically
consisent way. By requiring that additional constraint, the Python languages
forces these containers to be
arrays and
dataframes.
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ant enough here to take
further action.
Anyway, thanks all for the discussion!
Tim
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o`
Its is enhanced feature which combine both subprocess and os.system
Because, subprocess can return output of file, but does not support pipe in
command.
While os.system can apply pipe in command but doesn't support return stdout
result.
This can be very convenient to make python available
And also IPython:
https://ipython.readthedocs.io/en/stable/interactive/shell.html
e.g.
ls_lines = !ls -l
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lly a cool feature, because pickle is to keep python object,
completeness is a great advantage of pickle than json and other data persist
library.
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
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On 26/08/2021 15:44, Christopher Barker wrote:
Python itself is purposely not designed to provide quick and easy
shell access.
Is that really true? What evidence do you have for that statement?
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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m.
Why do you prefer strings for the options rather than an Enum? The enum
clearly documents what the valid options are for the option.
Ronald
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mirror C
> enums in extension code), but part of that is because I have yet to see what
> the point is in Python, over simple string flags.
>
> I suppose they provide a real advantage for static typing, but other than
> that I just don't see it.
Not just static typing, bu
Currently, in Python 3.9, `dbm.open()`, `dbm.gnu.open()` and `dbm.ndbm.open()`
doesn't support path-like object, class defined in `pathlib`.
It would be nice to add support with it.
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assertions.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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a selectors.
So "compress(a)" would be equivalent to "compress(a, a)"
For example:
from itertools import compress
[*compress([0, 1, 2, 3]))]
[1, 2, 3]
[*compress(["", "CFLAGS=-O3"])]
["CFLAGS=-O3"]
opts = compress([None, "
Right now, the following code is valid in Python 3.9 (and infinitely loops):
```
lst = [1, 2, 3]
for i in lst:
lst.append(i)
```
IMO this is a source of bugs, and even though this behavior is technically
documented (https://bugs.python.org/issue32767), I don't know if it should
belo
input, then it will return None
type. This would be a nice feature.
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