Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

o/ > IMHO a better usage of the PSF funding would be to organize some local > sprints to translate the Python documentation. That's what we're already doing here in France for the french translation, and the PSF is already fouding them (thanks!) in Paris [1] and the AFPy [2] is founding them

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Greg Ewing writes: > For understanding what kinds of things an LL parser can parse, > it helps to have gone through the exercise of implementing a > recursive descent parser. I deliberately decided not to go this route. I'm curious whether Abe found both posts useful. (Comparisons are

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Abe Dillon writes: > That's interesting. So the parser can see one token past, for instance; > what would be the end of an expression, see "if", and know to expand the > AST? Yes, if you want to think about it that way. For understanding what kinds of things an

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Abe Dillon writes: > That's interesting. So the parser can see one token past, for instance; > what would be the end of an expression, see "if", and know to expand the > AST? Yes, if you want to think about it that way. I think about it in terms of the parser receiving tokens one at a time,

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Dan Sommers writes: > Given x = the width of a widget and y = the price of that widget, > let f(x, y) be x + y. Lordy, there are tapes! I hope that wasn't an economist! ___ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Let me preface this by saying: I've already addressed the possibility of a form that tells you up-front that it's a function Granted it was 8 replies ago and at the end of a long-winded response, so I'll summarize here: A format like [] would, in my view, be preferable to a format that puts the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Steven D'Aprano wrote: The only difference between dict and lambda is time. Well, "more arbitrary" was perhaps a rather loose way of saying it. What I meant was that the chain of associations is shorter for "lambda" than for "s-expression", because the "s" refers to a word the reader is

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Steven D'Aprano] > If you go back far enough, pretty much all words and written symbols are > arbitrary. I think this is wandering into nihilistic pedantry. Go back or forward far enough (or zoom in or out far enough) and nothing means anything. When I first learned Python, I had never heard

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 05:55:13PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: > >for those who > >know Greek, it's like calling something an "S-expression", which is > >fairly obviously an abbreviation for something. ("Symbolic > >expression", I think? Someone might correct me there.) > >

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 2018-08-23 03:10, Abe Dillon wrote: [Chris Angelico] Because your form cannot possibly work without some additional information. That isn't my form. That's PSEUDO CODE. Just like I wrote above it. You're the one who's not listening.  The alternative I've suggested, for the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:40:12 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 06:50:29PM +, Dan Sommers wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 03:44:07 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 12:11:40PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: >> >> > difflib tests include this call: >>

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 06:50:29PM +, Dan Sommers wrote: > On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 03:44:07 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 12:11:40PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: > > > difflib tests include this call: > > > > sm = difflib.SequenceMatcher(isjunk=lambda x: x == ' ', ...)

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 06:28:45PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: [Steve -- that's me] > > But whatever it is, do you still think it is obvious that people > > will recognise "None" to mean a function without having to backtrack? > > > It's not clear what you mean by backtracking at this point. Yes,

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Greg Ewing] > If we wanted to be true to the original we should call > them "caret expressions" and write > ^(x, y): x + y > Nice and quiet! I actually... kinda like that. It doesn't really check any of my boxes, but it's better than 'lambda'. On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 12:55 AM Greg Ewing

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Steven D'Aprano] > Indeed. I wonder whether Abe drives, and if he does, whether he has read > the owner's manual. They are typically *full* of jargon. Do you still not understand the difference between documentation and interface? You seem to not even acknowledge that there's a difference

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Chris Angelico wrote: for those who know Greek, it's like calling something an "S-expression", which is fairly obviously an abbreviation for something. ("Symbolic expression", I think? Someone might correct me there.) Yes, except that lambda is an even more arbitrary choice of letter -- as far

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 03:12:30PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote: > Abe Dillon wrote: > >They still find it's better to use a red break > >light symbol with the aim of clearly communicating to non-experts. > > The handbrake warning light on my dashboard has a symbol > that represents a brake drum and

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Abe Dillon wrote: They still find it's better to use a red break light symbol with the aim of clearly communicating to non-experts. The handbrake warning light on my dashboard has a symbol that represents a brake drum and a pair of brake shoes, and the word "BRAKE" written underneath it.

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > Because your form cannot possibly work without some additional > information. That isn't my form. That's PSEUDO CODE. Just like I wrote above it. You're the one who's not listening. The alternative I've suggested, for the thousanth time, is: hand = sorted(cards,

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Chris Angelico] >> >> > I've also argued that the very form of lambda expressions is noisier >> > than it >> > otherwise needs to be. It's not like noise is only distracting to novice >> > developers. >> Yes, you've asserted it. We've

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > If the concept is utterly unfamiliar and the word is familiar, it > creates a different problem: the false parallel. Let's suppose that, > instead of calling them "lambda expressions", we call them "bacon > expressions". Or maybe "curry expressions!"... (I really hate that

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > The problem goes beyond just learning the term lambda, it can increase > mental load on an already mentally demanding activity to have to translate > an unfamiliar word every time you see it. It's lack of relation to anything > else makes it

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Steven D'Aprano] > As educators, if we fail to teach the technical language of a field to > our students, we are failing to prepare those students to enter that > field. Technical jargon is the language of the field. It's not the responsibility of the tool to teach. My socket wrench doesn't

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 2018-08-22 23:44, Greg Ewing wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Not "process the sorted list", but reify the sort verb into an actual thing (an object or value) and then process that thing itself. This is mind-bending when you think about it, far more mind-blowing than the normal linguistic

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Thanks, Stephen. That's interesting. So the parser can see one token past, for instance; what would be the end of an expression, see "if", and know to expand the AST? ___ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Replying out of order: [Steven D'Aprano] > Under your proposal, that becomes: > def bench(name, cleanup=None with ???, *, seconds=1, repeat=3): > except I'm not really sure what goes in the ??? for an empty parameter > list. I know I tend to write long-winded responses, but please read them

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Stephan Houben wrote: Church's lambda notation was the first way to write down a function without naming it, in the 1930's. That's debatable. It could be argued that calculus makes use of anonymous functions, e.g. the expression d/dx (x**2 + 2*x - 3) describes a function of x without

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: > Rhodri James wrote: >> >> This, by the way, is why think using the same syntax for function >> definition and generator definition was a mistake. > > > I think I remember arguing the same thing back when generators > were being devised. > > But

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Rhodri James wrote: This, by the way, is why think using the same syntax for function definition and generator definition was a mistake. I think I remember arguing the same thing back when generators were being devised. But there are arguments the other way too. From the outside, a generator

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Steven D'Aprano wrote: Not "process the sorted list", but reify the sort verb into an actual thing (an object or value) and then process that thing itself. This is mind-bending when you think about it, far more mind-blowing than the normal linguistic process of nouning verbs and verbing

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 6:24 AM, David Mertz wrote: > Oops. I blame the partial editing of copy/padte on doing it on my phone. I > meant this, of course: > > widget.register(callback=spam.eggs) This isn't quite the same, incidentally. It's (mostly) equivalent to: widget.register(callback=lambda

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

... functions as nouns... On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 1:44 PM David Mertz wrote: > This isn't trying to snipe. I have written the exact same unnecessary > circumlocution in my own code hundreds of times. Hopefully most of them > simplified before release, but I'm sure not all. And I "wrote the book",

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

This isn't trying to snipe. I have written the exact same unnecessary circumlocution in my own code hundreds of times. Hopefully most of them simplified before release, but I'm sure not all. And I "wrote the book", as one says, _Functional Programming in Python_. Functions as sounds is a powerful

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Oops. I blame the partial editing of copy/padte on doing it on my phone. I meant this, of course: widget.register(callback=spam.eggs) On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 1:47 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 01:38:03PM -0400, David Mertz wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 12:40 PM Steven

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Fwiw, I usually don't do def foo(): if False: yield None But simply: def foo(): return () That the returned iterable is not a generator seldom matters. Stephan Op wo 22 aug. 2018 21:17 schreef Chris Angelico : > On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:56 AM, Rhodri James > wrote: > > On 22/08/18

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:56 AM, Rhodri James wrote: > On 22/08/18 14:38, Jonathan Fine wrote: > def fn(): >> >> ... if None: >> ... yield >> ... > > list(fn()) # Fails, unless fn is a generator function. >> >> [] Actually, it fails unless fn returns some sort of

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 03:44:07 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 12:11:40PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: > difflib tests include this call: > > sm = difflib.SequenceMatcher(isjunk=lambda x: x == ' ', ...) > > which becomes: > > sm = difflib.SequenceMatcher(isjunk=x == ' ' with x,

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Op wo 22 aug. 2018 18:40 schreef Steven D'Aprano : > Chris' conclusion is that anonymous functions are inherently hard for > many beginners to learn, regardless of whether the syntax is called > "lambda" or "function". > Civilization itself had trouble with the concept. Functions as mathematical

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 22/08/18 18:06, Jonathan Fine wrote: The BBC micro:bit is a pocket-sized codeable computer with motion detection, a built-in compass and Bluetooth technology, which was given free to every child in year 7 or equivalent across the UK in 2016. Ditto for the Raspberry Pi, which is cheap rather

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 22/08/18 14:38, Jonathan Fine wrote: Hi Rhodri You wrote: This, by the way, is why think using the same syntax for function definition and generator definition was a mistake. It's only when I reach a "yield" statement that I realise my expectations for this code are wrong. Here's

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 01:38:03PM -0400, David Mertz wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 12:40 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > I believe that many people have a lot of trouble grasping the concept of > > functions as first-class values capable of being passed to other functions > > as data... It

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 12:11:40PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Steven D'Aprano] > > > > The revelation that it's a function should come when you read the "by" or > > > "key". > > I disagree. The most important fact is that it is a function, not > > specifically what it does. > > > I was trying

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 12:40 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I believe that many people have a lot of trouble grasping the concept of > functions as first-class values capable of being passed to other functions > as data... It took me a long time to stop writing code like this: > > map(lambda x:

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Steven D'Aprano] > > The revelation that it's a function should come when you read the "by" or > > "key". > I disagree. The most important fact is that it is a function, not > specifically what it does. I was trying to say that the context almost always gives away that the reader should expect

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Hi Steve You and I have different experience, background and interests. You wrote > As educators, if we fail to teach the technical language of a field to > our students, we are failing to prepare those students to enter that > field. Technical jargon is the language of the field. Python is a

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Michael makes some reasonable points, but I think the very premise of this thread is putting the cart before the horse. As educators, if we fail to teach the technical language of a field to our students, we are failing to prepare those students to enter that field. Technical jargon is the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Hi Rhodri You wrote: >This, by the way, is why think using the same syntax for function definition >and generator definition was a mistake. It's only when I reach a "yield" >statement that I realise my expectations for this code are wrong. Here's something that might help, and surprise, you.

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 22/08/18 07:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote: "Wait wait wait!" should ideally never happen. In programming, surprises are not a good thing, and they're even less good when they are retroactive. "Ha, fooled you! You thought you were dealing with an eagerly evaluated expression, but it was a

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 05:45:53PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: > Can you explain how far the parser is capable of backtracking? Its an LL(1) parser, if I recall correctly, so if you look at the details of LL(1) parsing, that should answer the question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LL_parser But

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 01:56:16PM -0500, Abe Dillon wrote: > The revelation that it's a function should come when you read the "by" or > "key". I disagree. The most important fact is that it is a function, not specifically what it does. Consider: widget.register(value[a](x)

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Chris Angelico writes: > I have to defer to someone who knows in more detail here, but the > parser will look ahead one "token", whatever a token is. (Technically > it doesn't backtrack, it looks ahead - same difference.) Tokens are basically keywords, identifiers, most single punctuation

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > I have to defer to someone who knows in more detail here, but the > parser will look ahead one "token", whatever a token is. (Technically > it doesn't backtrack, it looks ahead - same difference.) In order for > the ternary-if to work, the expression before the if has to be of

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Chris Angelico] >> >> Python's parser is *deliberately* incapable of backtracking this far >> in its definition of syntax. > > > Can you explain how far the parser is capable of backtracking? > It seems like with would require a similar

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > Python's parser is *deliberately* incapable of backtracking this far > in its definition of syntax. Can you explain how far the parser is capable of backtracking? It seems like with would require a similar amount of backtracking to ternary expressions: if else If the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Jonathan Fine] > I have reservations about the name lambda. But there's a lot of > code out there that uses lambda, and I'd like that code to continue to > run. Yes. I'm under no delusion that lambda will be replaced any time soon. Nor do I believe any alternative I suggest will be enough of

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Hi Abe First, I have reservations about the name lambda. But there's a lot of code out there that uses lambda, and I'd like that code to continue to run. You wrote: > func = value[card.suit] if card not in wilds else wild_value with card I thought I'd try this, and variants, in the Python

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 6:33 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Chris Angelico] >> >> I use decks of cards primarily for non-game >> usage (for instance, teaching data structures and algorithms - cards >> laid out on a table can represent a tree, heap, array, etc) > > > I do too. They're a great tool for

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > I use decks of cards primarily for non-game > usage (for instance, teaching data structures and algorithms - cards > laid out on a table can represent a tree, heap, array, etc) I do too. They're a great tool for visualizing and physically trying out different techniques.

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 6:24 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Chris Angelico] >> >> That right there is unacceptable. You should not have to know the >> destination to understand what something fundamentally is. > > > You don't *have* to know what the parameter "key" is to know that > (value[card.suit]

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > That right there is unacceptable. You should not have to know the > destination to understand what something fundamentally is. You don't *have* to know what the parameter "key" is to know that (value[card.suit] ... with card) is a function. You can identify that it's a

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > [Chris Angelico] >> >> In English, "card is not wild" can >> be interpreted as a membership check, but in Python, it is only an >> identity check; you're capitalizing on false readability by using this >> notation. > > > I promise that wasn't

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Chris Angelico] > Okay, let's read that. > hand = # we're assigning this to the name 'hand' > sorted( # calling the function named 'sorted' > cards, # positional argument, whatever's in the 'cards' variable > by= # keyword argument, what comes next is the 'by' argument > value[card.suit] #

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 3:56 AM, Abe Dillon wrote: > I've never hears someone say, "My child's name will be if it's a girl Sally > otherwise Billy." "My child's name depends on gender - if it's a girl, Sally, otherwise Billy." Seems fine to me. You can always come up with something awkward in a

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Stephen Turnbull] > I was an economist then, and I'm an economist still, but I met lambda > in 1977. Surely lambda has had that role in computer languages since > shortly before I was born. According to Wikipedia Lisp was the first language

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 02:07:33PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > I was an economist then, and I'm an economist still, but I met lambda > in 1977. Surely lambda has had that role in computer languages since > shortly before I was born. I would guess anybody above a certain age > would

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Rhodri James writes: > On 18/08/18 01:59, Abe Dillon wrote: > > The argument I tried to make is, "yes I believe there are cases where a > > less jargon identifier is preferable and that I believe 'lambda' is an > > example of a missed opportunity to use a less jargon (maybe 'esoteric' is a >

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Responding out of order. [Rhodri James] > > For instance: when the iPhone was introduced, a lot of people praised > > it's subjectively "slick" user interface. I believe that perception of > > slickness is partly because the iPhone emulated physical interfaces > > very well so it leveraged

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 18/08/18 01:59, Abe Dillon wrote: The argument I tried to make is, "yes I believe there are cases where a less jargon identifier is preferable and that I believe 'lambda' is an example of a missed opportunity to use a less jargon (maybe 'esoteric' is a better word here?), more descriptive

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Jonathan Fine writes: > I very much more prefer Victor's suggestion [of providing > translations in the distribution and giving translators commit > bits, AIUI]. I think we can do both. My suggestion is very cheap, and requires no change to release management, or even action by release

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Jonathan Fine writes: > One of the alternatives in PEP 545 is > === > Simplified English > It would be possible to introduce a "simplified English" version like > wikipedia did, as discussed on python-dev, targeting English learners > and children. > === As a *translation*, it's a very

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Hi Stephen I've just been reading the (excellent) discussion, started by Victor Stinner [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-February/147416.html # Start of thread. You wrote, and asked for comments on: > Finally, before getting the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Hi Stephen Thank you for your message. I'll respond just to a few of your comments. HOW MUCH EFFORT ON DOCS == Myself and you wrote: >> Summary: Discussion of the words 'jargon' and 'chatter'. Recommend >> that we learn better how to find a compromise (strike a

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

tl;dr I don't think so, not very much. There are bigger fish to fry. I would appreciate comments on the last paragraph (before the footnotes), which can be read standalone. If opinion is at all favorable, I'll raise it with the PSF. Jonathan Fine writes: > Summary: Discussion of the words

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Summary: Discussion of the words 'jargon' and 'chatter'. Recommend that we > learn better how to find a compromise (strike a balance) between precision and simplicity. This thread is, in part, about the meaning, use and usefulness of words. And 'jargon' is what we are talking about. What is the

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

[Michael Selik] > The conversation about syntactic sugar for ``functools.partial`` led to a > question about whether jargon like "lambda" makes the concept of an > anonymous function more difficult to learn. To clarify: The original statement by Steven D'Aprano, "although possibly a less jargon

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Alexandre Brault wrote: On 2018-08-15 03:32 PM, MRAB wrote: On 2018-08-15 18:27, MRAB wrote: > While we're at it, what's the only creature that's known commonly and only by its scientific name? I would have guessed Tyrannosaurus Rex I would have thought pretty much any dinosaur. -- Greg

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 2018-08-15 03:32 PM, MRAB wrote: > On 2018-08-15 18:27, MRAB wrote: >> On 2018-08-15 09:17, Jonathan Fine wrote: >>> Steve Barnes and Greg Ewing wrote: >>> >   * A dinosaur is specifically an extinct terrible (formerly > considered) > lizard Which technically is not

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 2018-08-15 18:27, MRAB wrote: On 2018-08-15 09:17, Jonathan Fine wrote: Steve Barnes and Greg Ewing wrote: * A dinosaur is specifically an extinct terrible (formerly considered) lizard Which technically is not a lizard. I can't resist. Puffinus puffinus is the scientific name for

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 14 August 2018 at 16:42, Michael Selik wrote: > In my own experience teaching, I find that many concepts are easier to > introduce if I avoid the Python jargon until after I've explained what it > does. [...] > "until after" != "forever". A jargon might be just an acronym, a word or few

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 2018-08-15 09:17, Jonathan Fine wrote: Steve Barnes and Greg Ewing wrote: * A dinosaur is specifically an extinct terrible (formerly considered) lizard Which technically is not a lizard. I can't resist. Puffinus puffinus is the scientific name for (drum roll) no, not the Atlantic

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Jonathan Fine wrote: Puffinus puffinus is the scientific name for Puff the Magic Dragon? -- Greg ___ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct:

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 15/08/18 06:21, Steve Barnes wrote: The English language has, historically, always borrowed, co-opted and sometimes perverted words from other languages to allow distinct concepts to be expressed concisely - which I personally, (admittedly as a native speaker), find rather useful. I think

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Steve Barnes and Greg Ewing wrote: >> * A dinosaur is specifically an extinct terrible (formerly considered) >> lizard > > > Which technically is not a lizard. I can't resist. Puffinus puffinus is the scientific name for (drum roll) no, not the Atlantic (or common) Puffin but (off-pitch

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Steve Barnes wrote: * Brakes are used to apply breaking, I hope they actually apply braking, not breaking. :-) * A dinosaur is specifically an extinct terrible (formerly considered) lizard Which technically is not a lizard. -- Greg ___

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 12:06 AM Stefan Behnel wrote: > Michael Selik schrieb am 14.08.2018 um 21:42: > > This is supported by education research. Some light Googling found a > > study on the topic [0] that is consistent with my own observations. > > OTx2, and no offence, but … this is supported

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

Michael Selik schrieb am 14.08.2018 um 21:42: > This is supported by education research. Some light Googling found a > study on the topic [0] that is consistent with my own observations. OTx2, and no offence, but … this is supported by research as well. People tend to search just long enough to

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

On 14/08/2018 20:42, Michael Selik wrote: > > Good comparisons can be found in other fields: > * Driving -- brakes vs stoppers > * Sailing -- starboard vs right-side > * Medicine -- postprandial vs after-meal > * Biology -- dinosaur vs direlizard > While NOT wanting to start another fight I

Re: [Python-ideas] Does jargon make learning more difficult?

The conversation about syntactic sugar for ``functools.partial`` led to a question about whether jargon like "lambda" makes the concept of an anonymous function more difficult to learn. In my own experience teaching, I find that many concepts are easier to introduce if I avoid the Python jargon