Steve D'Aprano writes:
> for x in something():
> print(x, end='')
print(''.join(something()))
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Terry Reedy writes:
> On Windows, [IDLE] uses native widgets when possible...
> In summary, I think debugger should rate at least 'good' rather than
> fail' when it comes to showing you the next line.
I actually like how the Tk widgets look. I've done some semi-industrial
applications with tkint
Chris Angelico writes:
> USA:
> Alabama:
> Abbeville
> Addison
> ...
> and then, as Paul suggested, write a simple parser to read it.
That looks like YAML, which there's already a library for. I'm not
crazy about it but it might be an ok choice for this.
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r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
> I would like to write source code similar to:
> country( 'USA' )
> state( 'Alabama' )
Aside from the workaround that I mentioned, this looks more like data
than code. Maybe you really want to create a nested structure
(dictionaries, JSON, XML or
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
> I would like to write source code similar to:
> country( 'USA' )
> state( 'Alabama' ) ...
> It seems I can't do this with Python. Is there any workaround?
_= country( 'USA' )
_= state( 'Alabama' )
_= town( 'Abbeville' )
_= town
Ian Kelly writes:
sum(int(c) for c in str(math.factorial(100)))
Doh! Using int(c) didn't occur to me and I didn't know about
math.factorial. Notice also that WJ hasn't yet dared posting his crap
on comp.lang.haskell.
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"Robert L." writes:
>> Find the sum of the digits in the number 100!
> In Python?
So you have come to plague us here too.
>>> sum(ord(c)-ord('0') for c in str(reduce(lambda a,b: a*b, range(1,101),1)))
648
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Having to spend a few hours being paid to migrate code using "print x"
> to "print(x)", or even a few months, is not a life-changing experience.
Didn't someone further up the thread mention some company that had spent
1.5 years porting a py2 codebase to py3?
The issue of
Ned Deily writes:
> You can find Python 3.7.0a1 and more information here:
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-370a1/
This says:
The next pre-release of Python 3.7 will be 3.6.0a2, currently
scheduled for 2016-10-16.
:)
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
>> concept integer / integer => integer_result
> That would be C, and C derived languages, perhaps?
Certainly not. Fortran, machine languages, etc. all do that too.
Haskell does the right thing and makes int/int a compile time type
error. Its integer divisi
Ben Finney writes:
>> I've never seen one.
> who has told you... they are working on a Python 3 code base.
Just because they've told me about it doesn't mean I saw it personally.
The ones I've seen, including new ones, are Python 2.
Some people here use Py3 but I haven't heard (or don't remember
Chris Angelico writes:
> Why? Unless they're going to be maintaining a Py2 codebase, why should
> they learn the older version with less features?
Are there actually Py3 codebases? I guess there must be, even though
I've never seen one. Every Python codebase of any size that I know of
is Py2.
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Guido has ruled that Python 4 will not be a major compatibility break
Looking forward to Python 5 then ;-).
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Chris Angelico writes:
> students learning Python *today* ... they're learning Python 3.
I'm not so sure of that. I do know a few people currently learning
Python, and they're using Python 2.
>> * static type annotation
Seems like a big win if you ask me.
>> * asyncio with its a-dialect
> A
Antoon Pardon writes:
> Now I found the following in the logs: [Errno 131] Connection reset by peer
> This is a problem I would like to catch earlier
I'd expect that's an IOError thrown by the socket library. You could
just let it go uncaught and see what you get in the crash dump.
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Christopher Reimer writes:
> I have 20 read_threads requesting and putting pages into the output
> queue that is the input_queue for the parser.
Given how slow parsing is, you probably want to scrap the pages into
disk files, and then run the parser in parallel processes that read from
the disk.
Chris Angelico writes:
>> And there are numbers which repeat in decimal but not binary,
> Which ones repeat in decimal but not binary? An example, please.
That should really have said binary but not decimal, since 2 divides 10.
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Did __next__ cache the most recently generated value?
No but if they're going to change stuff, they might as well actually
improve it instead of just renaming it to break code gratutiously.
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
> the public API is to call the next() built-in function, and the
> implementation is the __next__ dunder.
In that case it would have been nice to make next() cache the most
recently generated value from the iterator. That would make lots of
code simpler.
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Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
> Python 3 where the next() method has been renamed to __next__().
Oh cripes, you're right, it never occurred to me that py3 had broken
.next(). I thought it was called .next() instead of .__next()
so that it wouldn't be a dunder method.
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
> I've read a few people claim that disallowing multiplication from
> standard arithmetic renders it weak enough that you can prove it
> complete and correct, but since they give no proof or even evidence I
> have my doubts.
That system is called Presburger arithmetic (see
Ben Finney writes:
> generate_id = functools.partial(next, itertools.count())
Is something wrong with:
>>> g = itertools.count().next
>>> g()
0
>>> g()
1
>>> g()
2
>>> ...
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Rustom Mody writes:
> Do you mean Frege or Cantor?
Frege. Cantor was concerned with set theory, while Frege was concerned
with logic in general. Frege's notation was different from what we use
now but the issue was about the same: unrestricted comprehension led to
contradiction. As you mention
Rustom Mody writes:
> Specifically the term 'comprehension' used today as a programming construct
> traces somewhat tenuously to an axiom that Zermelo/Fraenkel formulated
> in the 1920s
I thought went back to Frege. Also, it appears in Zermelo set theory Z.
ZF is Z with the Axiom of Replacement
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> The question is, is it bad style—or even an error—to rely on the
> execution order of the comprehension loops?
Bad style: IMO, yes, most of the time. I've made use of it at
particular times. If it's done in an obscure way it at least
deserves a code commment.
Error: n
John Nagle writes:
> Since, as someone pointed out, there was UTF-8 which had been
> run through an ASCII-type lower casing algorithm
I spent a few minutes figuring out if some of the mysterious 0x81's
could be from ASCII-lower-casing some Unicode combining characters, but
the numbers didn't seem
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> For loops and comprehensions (in Python) are inherently procedural,
Sure, and floating point arithmetic is inherently imprecise and doesn't
follow the associative laws for either addition or multiplication.
There are times when we have to be aware of those details. Usual
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Are there language implementations which evaluate the result of map()
> (or its equivalent) in some order other than the obvious left-to-right
> first-to-last sequential order? Is that order guaranteed by the
> language, or is it an implementation detail?
Haskell just giv
Paul Rubin writes:
> FORALL P. [ P(0) and P(n) -> P(n+1) ]
Sorry, that was supposed to say
FORALL P. [ (P(0) and P(n) -> P(n+1)) -> forall n. P(n) ]
FORALL quantifies over formulas and forall quantifies over numbers.
Maybe something is still missing from the above ;-
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> For the non-logicians in the audience, an "axiom schema" is a generator
> pattern that produces an infinity of actual axioms.
For non-logicians this is not worth worrying about: schemas are
basically a technical hack to get around the inability of first-order
logic to qu
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> It's quite clever, actually, in that it gives *pseudo* random-access
> with lazy evaluation. You can evaluate the Nth element without
> evaluating the earlier ones. But you can't do so without *storing* the
> previous ones, they have to be allocated, with only the actual
>
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> And very possibly the first language with comprehensions, SETL (from 1969),
> used "forall" ...
It goes back much further, probably to Principia Mathematica, or (with
different notation) maybe Frege's Foundations of Arithmetic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set-builde
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> Jussi Piitulainen :
>> But what is "set comprehension" in French, German, or Finnish?
The idea comes from set theory: for some reason English Wikipedia
doesn't have Finnish cross-wiki links for most of the relevant
terms, but Google translates "axiom of specification" as
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> What would you expect this syntax to return?
> [x + 1 for x in (0, 1, 2, 999, 3, 4) while x < 5]
[1,2,3] though the later example is more confusing.
I don't think we need this since we have itertools.takewhile:
from operator import gt
from functools import partial
Chris Angelico writes:
> 4503599761588224
I get the same result from searching a wider interval (+/- 50) around
each perfect square in the relevant range.
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Ben Finney writes:
> I don't know of any PEP yet which specifies exactly what to add to the
> standard library for YAML
YAML is more of a Ruby thing, so there might not be much constituency
for putting it in Python.
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Dan Sommers writes:
> def __bool__(self):
> return False if self == X.Falsey else True
return self != X.Falsey
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Chris Angelico writes:
>>> Bipartisan-US-Bill-Moves-to-Criminalize-BDS-Support-20170720-0001.html
>> Heh, at first I read that as a bill to criminalise BSD support :-)
> I spluttered my drink on reading that. Good job Steven!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDS_C
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Ben Finney writes:
> How can I stop Python from deleting a name binding, when that name is
> used for binding the exception that is caught?
Use sys.exc_info()
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Rustom Mody writes:
> Since spammers are unlikely to be choosy about whom they spam:
> Tentative conclusion: Something about the USENET-ML gateway is more leaky
> out here than elsewhere
It could be a sort-of DOS attack by some disgruntled idiot. I wonder if
the email address in those spam posts
Rustom Mody writes:
> Yeah I know append method is supposedly O(1).
It's amortized O(1).
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Chris Angelico writes:
> Maybe I'm completely on the wrong track here, but the last time I
> implemented a self-balancing tree, it usually involved a fair amount
> of mutation.
AVL trees are fairly simple to implement without mutation. Red-black
trees are traditionally implemented with mutation,
Chris Angelico writes:
> some point it'll need to be rebalanced, which could at worst case
> be O(n).
No, you use a structure like an AVL tree or red-black tree, so it's
within a constant factor of balanced after each insertion. You rewrite
O(log n) of the nodes, and juggle around a constant nu
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> for parrot in parrots:
> accumulator[parrot.colour].append(parrot)
>
> That's pretty compact and understandable, but it require mutating a bunch
> of pre-allocated lists inside an accumulator. Can we re-write this in a
> functional style?
Not so easily in Python si
Michael Torrie writes:
>> can you get a newsreader to work with a https news service?
> No. A newsreader works with NNTP protocol.
Traditionally NNTP over SSL was done on port 563. Some feeds now also
provide it on 443 to get around client-side firewall hassles.
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timetowal...@gmail.com writes:
> What's with all of the Case Solution and Test Bank nonsense posts?
> Is is possible to have these posts filtered out?
As people have said, you can block them with a good news reader. But
like you, I wonder why the heck they have camped out on this particular
newsg
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> What's the right/best way to test whether an object is an exception
> ahead of time? (That is, without trying to raise from it.)
Maybe I'm missing something but
isinstance(obj, Exception)
seems to work.
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
> while “memory footprint” depends on how much memory is actually being
> retained in accessible objects.
If the object won't be re-accessed but is still retained by gc, then
refcounting won't free it either.
> Once again: The trouble with GC is, it doesn’t know when
Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
> The trouble with GC is, it doesn’t know when to kick in: it just keeps
> on allocating memory until it runs out.
That's not how GC works, geez. Typically it would run after every N
bytes of memory allocated, for N chosen to balance memory footprint
with cpu overhead
Gregory Ewing writes:
> A JIT compiler works by observing the actual values
To be pedantic, that's called a "tracing JIT". Other runtime code
generation is also frequently called JIT compilation even when it's
fairly stupid combining of assembly code templates, or the like.
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Chris Angelico writes:
> while True:
> c = sys.stdin.read(1)
> if not c: break
> if c.isprintable(): text += c
> elif c == "\x08": text = text[:-1]
> # etc
> Can you write _that_ as a do-while?
I prefer to write that sort of thing with iterators:
for c in iter(lambda: sys.st
Cem Karan writes:
> I'm not too sure how much of performance impact that will have. My
> code generates a very large number of tiny, short-lived objects at a
> fairly high rate of speed throughout its lifetime. At least in the
> last iteration of the code, garbage collection consumed less than 1
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> genuinely good reason... (Which might include "the customer insists",
> or "yeah, I know it sucks, but politics".)
I think the current LTS versions of Ubuntu and Debian both come with
Python 2. Not sure about Centos/RHEL. Those seem like ok reasons to
me.
> if you wa
Cem Karan writes:
> Can you give examples of how it's not reliable?
Basically there's a chance of it leaking memory by mistaking a data word
for a pointer. This is unlikely to happen by accident and usually
inconsequential if it does happen, but maybe there could be malicious
data that makes it
Chris Angelico writes:
> Or let's look at it a different way. Instead of using a PyObject* in C
> code, you could write C++ code that uses a trivial wrapper class that
> holds the pointer, increments its refcount on construction, and
> decrements that refcount on destruction.
That's the C++ STL s
Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
> Is Python 2 the Windows XP of the programming world?
That's a good way to put it. It's nice to hear about Instagram but so
far I don't personally know anyone who uses Python 3. Meanwhile there's
still lots of new Py2 projects being started.
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Paul Barry writes:
> The process they followed is discussed in their recent Keynote at PyCon
> 2017: https://youtu.be/66XoCk79kjM
> Well worth the 40 minutes it takes to watch :-)
If it takes 40 minutes to describe how they did it, that sounds like
more hassle than most users of working py2 code
I always thought the GIL removal obstacle was the need to put locks
around every refcount adjustment, and the only real cure for that is to
use a tracing GC. That is a good idea in many ways, but it would break
the existing C API quite seriously. Reworking the C modules in the
stdlib would be a l
Larry Martell writes:
> I can tell they think I am old and they dismiss me right away.
http://oldgeekjobs.com ?
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Mirko writes:
> TLDR: Sorry for OT. Long-time Linux geek and hobby programmer wants to
> improve his coding skills. What's most important: project planing,
> algorithms and data structures, contributing to FOSS, web development,
> learning other languages or something else?
If it's specifically
skyteacherus...@gmail.com writes:
> Please check out my latest repository
> https://github.com/gubrul/noCaptcha
Thanks. Captchas have gotten to be a real PITA lately, even as someone
who doesn't want to run automated clients on the infected sites. I
remember getting sick of trying to identify pi
Chris Warrick writes:
> there might be other users that will avoid your package for licensing
> reasons.
And there also might be other users who embrace the package for
those same reasons.
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Ben Bacarisse writes:
> ? I get "AttributeError: 'itertools.dropwhile' object has no attribute
> 'next'" from your example.
Hmm, .next() worked ok for me in Python 2.7.5. Not sure what happened.
Maybe something went wrong with my paste. Oh well.
> Coming from the lazy language Haskell, I find
Ben Bacarisse writes:
> c = sys.stdin.read(1)
> while c == ' ':
> c = sys.stdin.read(1)
c = itertools.dropwhile(
lambda c: c==' ',
iter(lambda: sys.stdin.read(1),None)
).next()
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Jeffrey Layton writes:
> I'm working with Continuum's Accelerate and I'm slowly learning PyCUDA
> but I'm looking for something that's already coded.
TensorFlow has good Python bindings. That's probably the best way to
get started.
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Steve D'Aprano writes:
> On the other hand, there's Cython. Cython claims *not* to be a JIT compiler,
One of the uses of "JIT compiler" these days is what's sometimes called
a tracing JIT, like PyPy or LuaJIT or the Javascript flavor-of-the-week.
That means it interprets the program while collect
Rurpy writes:
> A couple weeks ago a frequent poster here (Steve D'Aprano
> ) called another participant an "ugly
> american"
Oh stop trolling. Ugly American was a 1950s thing, now just amusing.
And context matters. Steven, please try to be a little more attentive
to people's delicate feefees i
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Since it is *optional*, it is only a hint, not a fact. You can tell the
> compiler that you believe that n will be an int, but it's not guaranteed.
The runtime could check at the entry to the function that n is an int,
and then it wouldn't have to keep re-checking on the
bartc writes:
> I do know that if I want to port some program (be it in Python or
> C++), or simply try and understand it, if I see it's full of class
> definitions or whatever, then I won't bother.
There was a time in the evolution of OOP when inheritance was thought of
as a cool and enabling th
Erik writes:
> I need to be able to lazily merge a variable number of
> already-sorted(*) variable-length sequences
If the number of sequences is large, the traditional way is with the
heapq module.
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Michael Torrie writes:
> Equivalent to the JNI and Lisp FFI is the CFFI [1]. The JNI, the FFI,
> and the CFFI, are all for calling native code from within their
> respective languages, if I understand correctly. They don't define a
> standard way for native code to call into these languages.
Th
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> Traditionally, disk access in Linux has been considered nonblocking.
> There is AIO, but that hasn't been used much.
AIO is asynchronous but it's for dealing with already-opened files.
There doesn't seem to be a way to asynchronously OPEN a file.
> I believe the lack of
Brecht Machiels writes:
> However, rinohtype is located in a very different niche and it would
> greatly benefit a lot from a speed boost. Rendering the Sphinx
> documentation (311 pages) takes almost 10 minutes on my i7
Yikes...
> As for moving to a compiled language (Nim or Rust would be inter
Chris Angelico writes:
> It's also entirely possible to have a single "application thread" and
> then a "file opening thread" that does nothing but open files;
Thanks. I think GHC and Erlang BEAM both do that. I hoped there was a
better way. Note you potentially need multiple file opening thre
Chris Angelico writes:
> Python, meanwhile, has made it easy to write blocking
> I/O in a single-threaded program, and then adds async'ness to it.
I'd be interested to know how to open a disk file asynchronously in a
single-threaded Python program under Linux. As far as I can tell there
is no wa
Mikhail V writes:
> Just my curiosity, I've always been intersted in such question: are devs
> still writing extensions in C, I mean type in C code?
Yes.
> Aren't they using some translator or IDE which at lest hides the
> brackets and semicolons?
I don't know of anyone who does that. I don't
Grant Edwards writes:
> If there are now other Python implementations (e.g. MicroPython) with
> C APIs that differ from CPython, then it seems like it is no longer
> redundant to say "the CPython API".
Perhaps there should be an attempt to define a unified API like the Java
JNI, Lisp FFI's, etc.
Chris Angelico writes:
> Do you mean this?
> https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/intro.html
Correct, smart guy ;-)
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Grant Edwards writes:
> I didn't know there was such a thing as "The Python C API".
It's described in this document:
https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/lang/python/2_6_3/c-api.pdf
You can tell that the document is about the Python/C API (ok, with a
slash) because it says so at the top of the tit
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> If we're going to talk about speeding up Python, we ought to talk about
> *serious* approaches to the problem, not the musing of random, ignorant
> bloggers and other naive commentators. So let's look at what the experts
> have done: [list snipped]
You might look
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> What's elastic search?
> And what does this have to do with Python?
https://www.elastic.co/ (formerly elasticsearch.org).
It's a Lucene-based distributed search engine, something like Solr if
you're used to that. It has Python client libraries. That's the
closest Pyth
Lutz Horn writes:
> We don't know *why* those people told you not to use these modules. We
> also don't know your use case. So it is very hard to advise you.
The use case is to have a very easily set up way to serve basic pages
and files, without a lot of configuration files and other
infrastruct
Sometimes I have a short term requirement to serve some data by http, so
I've been using those modules rather than setting up a full featured web
server. Some Python users have told me that isn't a good idea, but
without any specifics.
Are there any known problems with them such as security bugs,
Chris Green writes:
> self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
> self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
> self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
> self.table = table
> ...
> ...
> sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
>
Hans-Peter Jansen writes:
> [1] http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license.htm
Oh that's interesting, he's expanded the free licenses. Still though,
while OCB is very clever and it was important as the first satisfactory
AEAD mode, I don't think it's that important these days. GCM is
standa
Hans-Peter Jansen writes:
> I've released a keyring companion package today:
> https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile
Interesting, I'll take a look at it. I wrote something like it many
years ago but never did much with it. Thanks for posting!
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John Nagle writes:
> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports at least Python 3.4.
Open a ticket on buyshared.net and ask if they can install it for you.
They're good about stuff like that.
If it's for a cgi, you might alternatively be able to run it from your
own directory (you get ssh acce
spiess.benja...@googlemail.com writes:
> Does somebody know a good technique for this problem? or can even give
> a hint to a existing python procedure?
You're asking about nearest neighbor search, which is the topic of a
huge literature:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nearest_neighbor_search
--
Antoon Pardon writes:
> On reason to use this is for some easy "logging"
I think it's better to use the actual logging module. I generally start
a new program with print statements but convert them to logging after
there's enough code to want to be more organized about it.
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Chris Angelico writes:
> You can't do a look-ahead with a vanilla string iterator. That's
> necessary for a lot of parsers.
For JSON? For other parsers you usually have a tokenizer that reads
characters with maybe 1 char of lookahead.
> Yes, which gives a two-level indexing (first find the stra
Chris Angelico writes:
> decoding JSON... the scanner, which steps through the string and
> does the actual parsing. ...
> The only way for it to be fast enough would be to have some sort of
> retainable string iterator, which means exposing an opaque "position
> marker" that serves no purpose oth
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> Is it silly to create an enumeration with only a single member?
No.
> That is, a singleton enum?
Why stop there? You can make empty ones too. (Zerotons?)
> The reason I ask is that I have two functions that take an enum
> argument.
Sounds like a good reason.
>
Ben Bacarisse writes:
> [(lambda tmp: (tmp, tmp+1))(expensive_calculation(x)) for x in data]
Nice. The Haskell "let" expression is implemented as syntax sugar for
that, I believe.
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Tim Chase writes:
>> result = [(tmp, tmp+1) for tmp in map(expensive_calculation, data)]
>
> As charmingly expressive as map() is, the wildly different behavior in
> py3 (it's a generator that evaluates lazily) vs py2 (it consumes the
> entire iterable in one go) leads me to avoid it in general,
Serhiy Storchaka writes:
> gen = (expensive_calculation(x) for x in data)
> result = [(tmp, tmp + 1) for tmp in gen]
result = [(tmp, tmp+1) for tmp in map(expensive_calculation, data)]
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Steven D'Aprano writes:
> [(expensive_calculation(x), expensive_calculation(x) + 1) for x in data]
def memoize(f):
cache = {}
def m(x):
if x in cache:
return cache[x]
a = f(x)
cache[x] = a
r
Jussi Piitulainen writes:
> It could still be added as an option, to both takewhile and iter(_, _).
That's too messy, it really should be pervasive in iterators.
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Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
> return min(take_until(), key=firstitem)[1]
Actually, key=abs should work. I realized that after posting.
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Paul Rubin writes:
> seems to work, but is ugly. Maybe there's something better.
def minabs2(xs):
def z():
for x in xs:
yield abs(x), x
if x==0: break
return min(z())[1]
is the same thing but a little bit nicer.
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Paul Rubin writes:
> Doesn't look that way to me:
> >>> minabs([5,3,1,2,4])
> 1
There's a different problem though:
>>> minabs([1,2,3,0])
1
I think Python's version of iterators is actually buggy and at least the
first element of th
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