Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 29, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Gabriel Cosentino de Barros wrote: So, to be more direct: If you create one app that opens one window with one button in wxWindow and exit (exit, so that 'time' can canculate it for you), and then the same thing in Dabo, what's the time diference? I used the timeit

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? > > - speed where it matters (ie. no 20s load time) > >   Load what? The app, or the data? Users don't care how long the app > takes to start up, since they usually run it all day long. Data > response is a wh

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? > But even then, if DaBo ever becomes as easy to use as Delphi/VB for this > type of applications, while remaining cross-platform, that might easily > double the number of Python developers.  ;-) VB/delphi are ridiculous. don

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? From: Paul Rubin [mailto:"http://phr.cx"@NOSPAM.invalid] > This still seems way too complicated.  Why execute a bunch of separate > statements when what you're trying to set up is a single structure? IMHO, i think th

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 28, 2004, at 9:04 PM, Luke Skywalker wrote: Interesting discussion. I haven't looked at Dabo yet, but the issues that must be solved before Python is a valid alternative to proprietary solutions like Delphi or VB are: - speed where it matters (ie. no 20s load time) Load what? The app, or th

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:06:57 -0500, Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >That's where Paul and I came from, and that was our initial motivation >for deciding to develop Dabo - there wasn't a Python tool out there >that could even begin to approach what we were used to with VFP. Interesting discu

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 28, 2004, at 5:52 PM, JanC wrote: But even then, if DaBo ever becomes as easy to use as Delphi/VB for this type of applications, while remaining cross-platform, that might easily double the number of Python developers. ;-) Well, there are at least a half-million Visual FoxPro developers w

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Ed Leafe schreef: >> I think the field of GUI frameworks / tools for Python is fragmented >> because it's fragmented outside of Python too... > > I think that the reason things are fragmented in this field is that > none of the tools are simple enough to learn. Even on Windows, where sever

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 28, 2004, at 1:16 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: Well, those are commercial developers who are afraid of the GPL. No, they were several members of the Python community. I disagreed with their interpretation of the GPL, but the fact remains that it was a major stumbling block to getting others invo

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Oh, geez. After months of us getting skewered for releasing > Dabo under GPL, with everyone saying that they wouldn't even *look* at > it for fear of 'infecting' all of their code, we change the license to > the MIT license, and now the complaint is that

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 28, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: Obviously, something like that could also be added - do you want to help develop Dabo? We're always looking for talented people with good ideas! Only if you want to hire me. I mostly do volunteer development only on GPL projects. If I'm writ

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Obviously, something like that could also be added - do you > want to help develop Dabo? We're always looking for talented people > with good ideas! Only if you want to hire me. I mostly do volunteer development only on GPL projects. If I'm writing so

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 28, 2004, at 11:57 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: This still seems way too complicated. Why execute a bunch of separate statements when what you're trying to set up is a single structure? E.g.: menu = dabo.ui.Menu(("Close Window, self.onCloseWindow), ("New Window", self.N

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Here's the equivalent in Dabo: > > menu = dabo.ui.dMenu() > itm = menu.append("Close Window", self, self.onCloseWindow) This still seems way too complicated. Why execute a bunch of separate statements when what you're trying to set up is a single structure?

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 27, 2004, at 5:01 PM, JanC wrote: IMHO this is the worst think for the Python community: you can find one Python only with an excellent support. Great But on the other hand it is possible to find plenty of GUI tools and for the beginner (and may be not just for the beginner) it is so har

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

McBooCzech schreef: > IMHO this is the worst think for the Python community: you can find > one Python only with an excellent support. Great But on the other > hand it is possible to find plenty of GUI tools and for the beginner > (and may be not just for the beginner) it is so hard to choose

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? > From: Paul Rubin [mailto:"http://phr.cx"@NOSPAM.invalid] > > Dave Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > You might not care. > > > > And in that case Tk is much simpler than just about anythi

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

"McBooCzech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I am the newbie in Python, so I am trying to find some "usable" GUI as > well. But it looks to me there is a lot developers, beta-versions, > tools etc. I have spent a lot of time trying to find which is the > "best" one tool. But now it looks more confusi

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Sorry to bother, but I didn't find the final answer to the question what is the "Best GUI for small-scale accounting app"? I am the newbie in Python, so I am trying to find some "usable" GUI as well. But it looks to me there is a lot developers, beta-versions, tools e

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. You don't even have something as simple as a combo box (i.e. an editable entry with a drop down), let alone the rich set of widgets something like wxwidgets offers. Also web development doesn't seem as coherent to me as development with a

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Dave Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > You might not care. > > And in that case Tk is much simpler than just about anything else, unless > looks are really important. I've used tk and I don't think it's simpler than html. > Takes up twice as much space and is potentially confusing as the drop

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 2004-12-21, Paul Rubin wrote: > Dave Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. > > You might not care. And in that case Tk is much simpler than just about anything else, unless looks are really important. >> You don't even have something as

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

huy wrote: Dave Cook wrote: On 2004-12-20, Paul Rubin wrote: I think I can put together a useable (but not visually stunning) web interface faster than I can put together any pure client-side interface. Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. You don't even have something as

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Dave Cook wrote: On 2004-12-20, Paul Rubin wrote: I think I can put together a useable (but not visually stunning) web interface faster than I can put together any pure client-side interface. Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. You don't even have something as simple as a

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? > I went w/wxPython for a second app because of its printing capabilities > and the large number of controls that come with it.  Otherwise I would > use pyFltk for small apps. does FLK has any good positioning model now? La

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

> ZOPE could provide the workaround but ZOPE seems really huge to > me and an overkill for this. Or maybe it would work? I am intenionally *not* trying to argue web vs traditional gui for your app, but to tuck away for future apps, CherryPy2 is a lot easier than Zope to use and programming it does

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 21, 2004, at 7:42 PM, Bulba! wrote: This advice of yours (thanks) may have "slashdotted" your site by flood of requests from Python programmers all looking at your website. ;-) "Proxy Error The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. The proxy server could not hand

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:20:48 -0500, Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You might want to check out Dabo, an application framework of which I >am one of the authors. We use wxPython as our UI toolkit, but have >streamlined the programming of the UI. We've also added data binding, >maki

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Dave Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. You might not care. > You don't even have something as simple as a combo box (i.e. an > editable entry with a drop down), Just put an input field and a dropdown on the page. > let alone the rich se

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! wrote: - QT seems to be industrial-strength, but.. it's probably more complex/difficult to use. - wxPython/PythonCard is probably simple to use, but.. are there not some pitfalls that development will fall into once the app starts growing (they all do)? From my point of view, PyQt is easie

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Dec 20, 2004, at 7:25 AM, Bulba! wrote: The long lists of invoices, subcontractors and tasks (possibly hundreds or thousands) will have to be displayed - which toolkit is better for that in your experience? I would appreciate anybody sharing their experiences with relevant toolkits in developmen

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 2004-12-20, Paul Rubin wrote: > I think I can put together a useable (but not visually stunning) web > interface faster than I can put together any pure client-side > interface. Web browser "widgets" seem pretty limited to me, though. You don't even have something as simple as a combo box

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 2004-12-20, Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need > to choose GUI for it. I've had success with pygtk on win32 and Linux (and OS X with the X11 server installed.) http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/ http://gladewin32.s

wxPython documentation [was: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?]

[Gerhard, quoting a blog] > wxPython doesn't seem bad, but it lacks any documentation I see this a lot, and it baffles me. wxPython is a thin wrapper over wxWidgets, which is very well documented. Where they differ, the wxWidgets documentation discusses those differences. Add the excellent wxP

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

> I admit that I don't know much about Qt in Windows. As, I said, I've > never seen it. The fact that they don't offer a GPLed version for > Windows is a deterrent for me. > > I have heard very nice things about Qt's api. I even bought a book on > it, but since the apps I've needed to write, had

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Personally I think the priority of all new project developmnent should be based principally on web technologies, with OS-specific (i.e., desktop) versions only if there is absolutely no other way. You should really try CherryPy (http://www.cherrypy.org) - for Python-based web development I don't t

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 20 Dec 2004 13:28:02 -0800, "John Machin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Babelfish gave up on "durchzuwursteln" and so did I -- >"through-to-sausage-???" This is getting erotic ;-) Luke. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Thomas Heller wrote: > Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need > > to choose GUI for it. > > Quoting a somewhat popular german blogger, on the state of cross > platform Python GUI toolkits (http://blog.schockwellenreiter.de/7282): >

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Diez B. Roggisch wrote: |>Question for you, does Qt use the native Windows dialogs and widgets or |>does it use its own? If the latter, how close are they to the native |>look? Will they change appearance when a user chooses a different |>theme in the

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 20 Dec 2004 07:47:53 -0800, Paul Rubin <"http://phr.cx"@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > "Your CherryPy powered web applications are in fact stand-alone Python > > applications embedding their own web server. You can deploy them > > anywhere you can run Python appl

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

> Question for you, does Qt use the native Windows dialogs and widgets or > does it use its own? If the latter, how close are they to the native > look? Will they change appearance when a user chooses a different > theme in the Display Dialog? AFAIK they do all stuff themselves. And also AFAIK p

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

I admit that I don't know much about Qt in Windows. As, I said, I've never seen it. The fact that they don't offer a GPLed version for Windows is a deterrent for me. I have heard very nice things about Qt's api. I even bought a book on it, but since the apps I've needed to write, had to be cros

RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Title: RE: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app? ( sorry about top posting) 1. Ever avoid web based. unless you have to do it webbased. I've been doing web based apps for 5 years now. it simple don't pay off! usability within a browser sucks, unless you can spend time re-wr

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 05:04:33PM +0100, Thomas Heller wrote: > Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need > > to choose GUI for it. > > Quoting a somewhat popular german blogger, on the state of cross > platform Python GUI toolkits

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need > to choose GUI for it. Quoting a somewhat popular german blogger, on the state of cross platform Python GUI toolkits (http://blog.schockwellenreiter.de/7282): Ansonsten habe ich nach einiger Ü

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! wrote: > Hmm.. and if I may ask, what limitations you have stumbled on? In reality, PythonCard is just an easier way of manipulating wxPython. The thing is that PythonCard needs to have a wraper for each wxPython widget that it uses, and, then that wrapper needs to be incorporated into t

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Your CherryPy powered web applications are in fact stand-alone Python > applications embedding their own web server. You can deploy them > anywhere you can run Python applications." - cool!! You might not really want a separate socket listener for each applica

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

> Here is another question, are you deploying in Linux, Windows, Mac, or > some combination of these? I think that may be a big factor to > consider. I do like the look of Qt under Linux, however, I have never > seen it under Windows. Qt seems to be very focused in Linux, with Mac > and Windows

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 20 Dec 2004 05:53:03 -0800, "RM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Here is another question, are you deploying in Linux, Windows, Mac, or >some combination of these? I think that may be a big factor to >consider. I do like the look of Qt under Linux, however, I have never >seen it under Windows. Q

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 20 Dec 2004 05:36:48 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: >Zope seems huge to me too. I'd just use a Python cgi, optionally with >one of the simpler Python template libraries. Just try to keep things >simple, and never allow access except to authorized, trusted users >(i.e. don

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:37:23 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: But if the data entry >forms are simple, I recommend you to check some lightweight approaches >for Web development in Python. I personally used CherryPy >(www.cherrypy.org); you can also check Quixote or Snakelets. All th

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Here is another question, are you deploying in Linux, Windows, Mac, or some combination of these? I think that may be a big factor to consider. I do like the look of Qt under Linux, however, I have never seen it under Windows. Qt seems to be very focused in Linux, with Mac and Windows support as

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Reason 1: It would be somewhat complex to develop it using > PHP (I have done some recon in that area) and using GUI > on Windows is actually faster way of entering and editing data > than via the Web browser I think. Well, I was concentrating more on imple

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:20:43 +0100, Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 20 Dec 2004 04:43:06 -0800, Paul Rubin > >I'd try to make it web based unless > >there's a good reason not to. > > Reason 1: It would be somewhat complex to develop it using > PHP (I have done some recon in that area) and u

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > BTW, do you have any experience with how respective GUI builders > actually work? QT Designer seems great and people seem to use > it in industry, but how useful is PythonCard useful in real-world app > development? I'd use Glade if I could. -- http://mail.pyt

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > What does the app need to do? I'd try to make it web based unless > > there's a good reason not to. That's even if it just runs on the > > user's desktop; run the http listener on the localhost and let the > > user connect to it with a browser. > > I'm

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:03:38 -0500, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Personally I think that the choice may well come down to which API is >closest to what Bulba has used in the past. Well I haven't used any of them - I only plan to start learning and using GUI toolkits. Hence the questi

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

On 20 Dec 2004 04:43:06 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: >> I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need >> to choose GUI for it. >> >> I have narrowed the choice to wxPython/PythonCard and QT/PyQT >What does the app need to do? Basically, it's for a "d

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Paul Rubin wrote: Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need to choose GUI for it. I have narrowed the choice to wxPython/PythonCard and QT/PyQT What does the app need to do? I'd try to make it web based unless there's a good reason not

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

> I have narrowed the choice to wxPython/PythonCard and QT/PyQT > (buying commercial licenses is not a big problem, the company > would pay for it). > > Which is better for this kind of application? I mean, looking > from purely technological and long-term development aspects > and ignoring licens

Re: Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need > to choose GUI for it. > > I have narrowed the choice to wxPython/PythonCard and QT/PyQT What does the app need to do? I'd try to make it web based unless there's a good reason not to. That'

Best GUI for small-scale accounting app?

I'll soon start development of a specialized small app and need to choose GUI for it. I have narrowed the choice to wxPython/PythonCard and QT/PyQT (buying commercial licenses is not a big problem, the company would pay for it). Which is better for this kind of application? I mean, looking f