On 7/24/2011 8:51 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
Now replying to an existing thread to start an entirely new, unrelated
thread is definitely rude.
Rude or not, it tends to be unproductive. If someone posted "Help with
threading internals" here, it could well not be seen by the appropriate
people,
On 2011-07-24, John Nagle wrote:
> On 7/19/2011 7:34 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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>>
>> There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
>> it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
>> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ew
On 07/20/2011 07:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread
> because it's considered rude. Thank you.
Too funny. Says who? Changing the subject line to reflect the
direction this part of the thread (a branch if you will) is going is
definitely ap
John Nagle wrote:
There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It still uses Tcl/Tk stuff, which is un-Pythonic.
You must be thinking of something else. My PyGUI has
Gregory Ewing wrote:
>Tim Roberts wrote:
>>
>> I don't think your glibness is justified. There is a legitimate appeal to
>> this notion. The fact is that MANY APIs can be completely and adequately
>> described by HTML.
>
>My brain raises a TypeError on that statement. According to
>my understa
On Jul 20, 3:34 am, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/19/2011 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>
>
> > What is wrong with them:
>
> > 1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
>
> > 2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
> > has a standard library!)
>
On 7/19/2011 7:34 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
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There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It has quite a few external depend
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
>
> Python has a GIL.
>>>
>>
>> Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
>>
>
> PyPy has a GIL, too.
There's been talk of removing PyPy's GIL using transactional memory though.
--
http://mail.python.org
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> And then you have the cross platform nirvana. Except for the browsers'
> various differences and bugs etc etc...
>
The "platform" ceases to be Windows/Linux/Mac, ceases to be Qt/GTK/Tk,
and instead becomes Webkit/Gecko/Trident. It's still
On 23Jul2011 22:21, Gregory Ewing wrote:
| Tim Roberts wrote:
| >Gregory Ewing wrote:
| >>sturlamolden wrote:
| >>>Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
| >>>different, such as HTML5?
| >>
| >>I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
| >>everything should be a
Tim Roberts wrote:
Gregory Ewing wrote:
sturlamolden wrote:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
everything should be a web page.
I don't think your glibness is justified. There is a
Gregory Ewing wrote:
>sturlamolden wrote:
>
>> Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
>> different, such as HTML5?
>
>I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
>everything should be a web page.
I don't think your glibness is justified. There is a legitimate app
On 21 Jul, 16:52, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I bet that other scripting languages would
> piggyback on top of it (Lua or Ruby bindings for Python's GUI toolkit,
> anyone?) because doing that is less work than writing your own toolkit
> from scratch.
No doubt about that.
Lua has a nice GUI toolkit by
On 22 Jul, 02:34, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration -- there's only
> one major dependency on each platform, and it's a very
> widely used one (currently PyObjC/PyGTK/PyWin32). And
> I'm thinking about ways to reduce the dependencies further,
Pyrex or Cython?
--
ht
Andrew Berg wrote:
It has quite a few external dependencies, though (different dependencies
for each platform, so it requires a lot to be cross-platform).
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration -- there's only
one major dependency on each platform, and it's a very
widely used one (currently P
sturlamolden wrote:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
everything should be a web page.
--
Greg
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 7/20/11 9:05 AM, rantingrick wrote:
On Jul 19, 9:44 pm, Kevin Walzer wrote:
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Again, so? This isn't applicable to Tk, by the way. It's a GUI toolkit
specifically designed for scripting languages.
On 20Jul2011 19:06, rantingrick wrote:
|
| RE: *Tim Chase changes topic and talks smack*
|
| On Jul 20, 8:38 pm, Tim Chase wrote:
| > On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
| >
| > > RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
| >
| > > Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's th
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:34 pm Phlip wrote:
> On Jul 20, 6:17 pm, rantingrick wrote:
>> RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
>>
>> Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
>> it's considered rude. Thank you.
>
> No it isn't. Rambling off on a new topic under the wr
rantingrick wrote:
> What about the etiquette of staying on topic?
Such as raising your personal opinion of online etiquette in a thread
on GUI toolkits?
As always, there's what you say, and there's what you do, and never
the twain shall meet.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-l
rantingrick wrote:
> The old "reinvent the wheel" argument is only valid when wheels
> already exists. Currently we have triangles (or maybe pentagons) but
> no wheels.
No, currently we have a small handful of people who feel the wheels
are triangles but have done nothing more than complain about
On Jul 20, 6:17 pm, rantingrick wrote:
> RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
>
> Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
> it's considered rude. Thank you.
No it isn't. Rambling off on a new topic under the wrong subject is
rude.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailm
RE: *Tim Chase changes topic and talks smack*
On Jul 20, 8:38 pm, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>
> > RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
>
> > Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
> > it's considered rude. Thank you.
>
> Righ
On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
Right...do not change the subject because it's considered rude.
Change it because the topic drifted from
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Phlip writes:
> Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
> GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
Applications have been written that look like that, sure. Many of them
were *written* in the 1980s and 1990s, so the wonder is not how they
look but tha
On 21 Jul, 00:52, Phlip wrote:
> Oh, and you can TDD it, too...
No, I can't TDD with Tkinter. All my tests fail when there is no
OpenGL support (Togl is gone). For TDD to work, the tests must have a
chance of passing.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Jul 20, 3:13 pm, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip wrote:
>
> > Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
> > GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
>
> The widget set is limited compared to GTK or Qt, though it has the
> most common GU
On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip wrote:
> Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
> GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
And using it with OpenGL has been impossible since Python 2.2 (or
whatever).
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Excerpts from Phlip's message of Wed Jul 20 16:58:08 -0400 2011:
> On Jul 20, 10:32am, rantingrick wrote:
>
> > Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
> > yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and never
> > will. Stick to what you know please.
>
> All
On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip wrote:
> Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
> GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
The widget set is limited compared to GTK or Qt, though it has the
most common GUI controls, and it does not look that bad with the
rec
On Jul 20, 10:32 am, rantingrick wrote:
> Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
> yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and never
> will. Stick to what you know please.
Allow me.
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
On Jul 19, 11:28 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
> feel?
Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and never
will. Stick to what you know ple
On 20 Jul, 06:28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
> feel?
Python 2.7.2 |EPD 7.1-1 (64-bit)| (default, Jul 3 2011, 15:34:33)
[MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "packages", "demo" or "enthought" for more information.
>>>
On 20 Jul, 17:21, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> Don't know about Mac, I was under the impression that GTK was fine on
> Windows these days.
GTK looks awful on Windows, requires a dozen of installers (non of
which comes from a single source), is not properly stabile (nobody
cares?), and does not work o
On 20/07/11 15:47, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans wrote:
>
>> I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
>
> PyGTK with GLADE is the easier to use, but a bit awkward looking on
> Windows and Mac. (Not to mention the number of dependencies that must
> be installed, inclusing a
On Jul 20, 9:27 am, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 16:17, Mel wrote:
>
> > OTOH, if you intend to re-use the Dialog object, it's not a memory leak.
>
> It cannot be reused if you don't have any references pointing to it.
> Sure it is nice to have dialogs that can be hidden and re-displayed,
> b
On 20 Jul, 13:08, Tim Chase wrote:
> http://xkcd.com/927/
>
> :-)
Indeed.
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 20 Jul, 13:04, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > 3. Instances of extension types can clean themselves up on
> > deallocation. No parent-child ownership model to mess things up. No
> > manual clean-up. Python does all the reference counting we need.
>
> NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. UI's don't work that
On 20 Jul, 16:17, Mel wrote:
> OTOH, if you intend to re-use the Dialog object, it's not a memory leak.
It cannot be reused if you don't have any references pointing to it.
Sure it is nice to have dialogs that can be hidden and re-displayed,
but only those that can be accessed again.
tp_dealloc
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> Okay, I haven't used SWT yet: manual memory management? Java is GC!
>
> It is perfectly reasonable to be required to manually call some sort of
> destroy() method to tell the toolkit what you no longer want the user to
> see: firstly, you have the display
sturlamolden wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans wrote:
>> It is perfectly reasonable to be required to manually call some sort of
>> destroy() method to tell the toolkit what you no longer want the user to
>> see
> Yes, but not to avoid a memory leak.
OTOH, if you intend to re-use the Di
On 2011-07-20, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:12 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>> What is wrong with them
>> 1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
>> 2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
>> has a standard library!)
>
On 2011-07-20, Thomas Jollans wrote:
>> 5. No particular GUI thread synchronization is needed -- Python has a
>> GIL.
>
> That's where you're wrong: the GIL is not a feature of Python. It is an
> unfortunate implementation detail of current versions of CPython. (and
> PyPy, apparently)
And ther
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
PyGTK with GLADE is the easier to use, but a bit awkward looking on
Windows and Mac. (Not to mention the number of dependencies that must
be installed, inclusing a GTK runtime.)
> Really, while Swing and Tkinter are
On Jul 19, 9:44 pm, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> > 2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
> > has a standard library!)
>
> Again, so? This isn't applicable to Tk, by the way. It's a GUI toolkit
> specifically designed for scripting languages.
Tk is SPECIFICALLY designed
On Jul 19, 9:12 pm, sturlamolden wrote:
> What is wrong with them:
>
> 1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
This fact bugs me but no one is willing to put forth an effort to make
things happen. So we are stuck with what we have now.
> 3. Unpythonic memory management:
Thomas Jollans writes:
> On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
>> 3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
>> objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
>> ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
>> collector.
>
> I wonder
sturlamolden, 20.07.2011 04:12:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
Depends. For many "desktop" apps, this is actually quite workable, with the
additional advantage of having an Internet-/Intranet-ready implementation
available in case y
On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:59 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
> > 5. No particular GUI thread synchronization is needed -- Python has a
> > GIL.
> That's where you're wrong: the GIL is not a feature of Python. It is an
> unfortunate implementation detail of curr
On 07/19/2011 09:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
How I would prefer the GUI library to be, if based on "native"
widgets:
http://xkcd.com/927/
:-)
-tkc
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:12 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
> What is wrong with them
> 1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
> 2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
> has a standard library!)
I've no idea what this means. I happily use pygtk
On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
> 3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
> objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
> ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
> collector.
I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
I've
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:51 pm Andrew Berg wrote:
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>
> On 2011.07.20 02:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Isn't it optional though?
> No.
> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#does-pypy-have-a-gil-why
Ah, my mistake, thank you. I knew PyPy ha
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On 2011.07.20 02:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Isn't it optional though?
No.
http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#does-pypy-have-a-gil-why
- --
CPython 3.2.1 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17592 | Thunderbird 5.0
PGP/GPG Public Key ID: 0xF88E034060A7
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:20 pm Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
>>> Python has a GIL.
>>
>> Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
>
> PyPy has a GIL, too.
Isn't it optional though?
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
Python has a GIL.
Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
PyPy has a GIL, too.
Stefan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> 3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
> objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
> ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
> collector.
Perhaps you already know th
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:12 pm sturlamolden wrote:
> What is wrong with them:
[...]
> 4. They might look bad (Tkinter, Swing with Jython).
Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
feel?
> 5. All projects to write a Python GUI toolkit die before they are
> finis
OK, I'll bite...
On 7/19/11 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
So? Doing a GUI toolkit is a hard project.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Again, so? This isn't appl
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Hash: RIPEMD160
There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It has quite a few external dependencies, though (different dependencies
for
On 7/19/2011 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (w
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