Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-31 Thread Hendrik van Rooyen
On Thursday 30 July 2009 03:09:14 greg wrote: Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: And if code is data, where is Pythons ALTER statement? class Duck: def quack(self): print Quack! def moo(): print Moo! def ALTER(obj, name, TO_PROCEED_TO): setattr(obj, name, TO_PROCEED_TO) d =

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-31 Thread greg
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: The COBOL source was more obscure, as any jump could have been altered, and you could not see that until you have read further on in the program, where the ALTER statement was. Well, in Python you can pretty much replace any function with any other function, so you

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-29 Thread Hendrik van Rooyen
On Tuesday 28 July 2009 17:11:02 MRAB wrote: If you were a COBOL programmer, would you want to shout about it? :-) Hey don't knock it! - at the time, it was either COBOL or FORTRAN or some assembler or coding in hex or octal. And if code is data, where is Pythons ALTER statement? *Ducks* :-)

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-29 Thread greg
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: And if code is data, where is Pythons ALTER statement? class Duck: def quack(self): print Quack! def moo(): print Moo! def ALTER(obj, name, TO_PROCEED_TO): setattr(obj, name, TO_PROCEED_TO) d = Duck() ALTER(d, 'quack', TO_PROCEED_TO = moo) d.quack() --

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread Hendrik van Rooyen
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:49:25 Aahz wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote: I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should switch to PHP? I have

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread MRAB
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:49:25 Aahz wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote: I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread Dimiter malkia Stanev
Xah Lee wrote: PHP is functional. PHP is functional, as in it functions!. PHP is not functional, as in it ain't functions! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread magicus
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:11:02 +0100, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:49:25 Aahz wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread MRAB
magicus wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:11:02 +0100, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:49:25 Aahz wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread magicus
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:22:29 +0100, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: magicus wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:11:02 +0100, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:49:25 Aahz wrote: In article

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-28 Thread Дамјан Георгиевски
So do all these OSes have some kind of __mega_unifying_poll system call that works for anything that might possibly block, that you can exploit from a user process? On Linux at least, the select/poll/epoll is that system, the trick is to use eventfd, timerfd and signalfd which are Linux

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-27 Thread Hendrik van Rooyen
On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote: I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should switch to PHP? I have searched, but I can find nothing about this mediocre language. Could you tell us more? - Hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-27 Thread David Robinow
On 7/26/09, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: David Robinow wrote: This doesn't mean they're on the same level - in fact, if you read carefully you'll see my original post said as much: python attracted average programmers; php attracted mediocre programmers and even some

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-27 Thread Aahz
In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote: I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should switch to PHP? I have searched, but I can find nothing about this mediocre

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-27 Thread David Smith
Aahz wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote: I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should switch to PHP? I have searched, but I can find nothing about

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-27 Thread David Robinow
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Aahza...@pythoncraft.com wrote: In article mailman.3765.1248685391.8015.python-l...@python.org, Hendrik van Rooyen  hend...@microcorp.co.za wrote: On Sunday 26 July 2009 21:26:46 David Robinow wrote:  I'm a mediocre programmer. Does this mean I should switch to

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Aahz
In article h4gnmr$8c...@news.eternal-september.org, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: On 2009-07-25 00:55:26 -0400, Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com said: But please don't put it on the same level as PHP. Their situations have almost nothing in

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-26 09:16:39 -0400, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) said: There are plenty of expert C++ programmers who switched to Python; plenty is an absolute term, not a relative term. I sincerely doubt that the majority of python users were formerly *expert* C++ programmers. your thesis only

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread David Robinow
This doesn't mean they're on the same level - in fact, if you read carefully you'll see my original post said as much: python attracted average programmers; php attracted mediocre programmers and even some non-programmers, which means that php is clearly a lesser language than python. I'm a

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread MRAB
David Robinow wrote: This doesn't mean they're on the same level - in fact, if you read carefully you'll see my original post said as much: python attracted average programmers; php attracted mediocre programmers and even some non-programmers, which means that php is clearly a lesser language

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Roy Smith
In article h4gnmr$8c...@news.eternal-september.org, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: php is clearly a lesser language than python. I'm as much of a Python bigot as anybody. Likewise, I put down php for all the sorts of theoretical reasons people

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-26 17:04:23 -0400, Roy Smith r...@panix.com said: One needs to have a very highly developed sense of theoretical purity to look down their noses at the language that drives one of the highest volume web sites on the planet. It's nothing to do with theoretical purity and everything

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Rhodri James
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:31:06 +0100, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: On 2009-07-26 09:16:39 -0400, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) said: There are plenty of expert C++ programmers who switched to Python; plenty is an absolute term, not a relative

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-26 Thread Andrew Reilly
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:31:06 -0400, Raffael Cavallaro wrote: On 2009-07-26 09:16:39 -0400, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) said: There are plenty of expert C++ programmers who switched to Python; plenty is an absolute term, not a relative term. I sincerely doubt that the majority of python

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-25 Thread Xah Lee
PHP is popular because it is geared for the server-side web scripting lang, and simpler and easy to use, than popular free alternatives at the time (such as Perl and Java's JSP). Python became popular primarily because its ease-to-read syntax. Btween the two, PHP is much easier to use, and much

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-25 Thread Tayssir John Gabbour
On Jul 24, 11:58 pm, ACL anonymous.c.lis...@gmail.com wrote: I actually think that the thing holding lisp back is 'bus factor'. Lets assume I have a java project and a lisp project: Java project: I have maybe 10 or 12 people on my team working on various subsystems of my project. There are

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-25 Thread Jon Harrop
ACL wrote: Lisp project: I don't need as many people... Is there any actual evidence of that? -- Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-25 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 24, 11:54 pm, Xah Lee xah...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] References: • Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html • What Languages to Hate  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/language_to_hate.html • Lambda in

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-25 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-25 00:55:26 -0400, Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com said: But please don't put it on the same level as PHP. Their situations have almost nothing in common. Their situations have much in common; Python attracted programmers away from (for example) C++, becuse python is easier

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-24 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-23 13:15:00 -0400, Isaac Gouy igo...@yahoo.com said: I get the feeling I'm missing the joke? Yes, you are missing the joke. The point is that if python is 60x slower than C, even if there were not a GIL, it would require running the python program on a 60 core machine just reach

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-24 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-23 23:51:02 -0400, Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com said: On Jul 23, 5:52 pm, Rui Maciel rui.mac...@gmail.com wrote: fft1976 wrote: How do you explain that something as inferior as Python beat Lisp in the market place despite starting 40 years later. Probably due to similar

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-24 Thread ACL
On Jul 24, 2:06 pm, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: On 2009-07-23 23:51:02 -0400, Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com said: On Jul 23, 5:52 pm, Rui Maciel rui.mac...@gmail.com wrote: fft1976 wrote: How do you explain that something as inferior as

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-24 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 24, 11:06 am, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: On 2009-07-23 23:51:02 -0400, Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com said: On Jul 23, 5:52 pm, Rui Maciel rui.mac...@gmail.com wrote: fft1976 wrote: How do you explain that something as inferior

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Nobody
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:17:52 -0700, Carl Banks wrote: So do all these OSes have some kind of __mega_unifying_poll system call that works for anything that might possibly block, that you can exploit from a user process? Threads ;) They also have the advantage that one thread can run while

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Isaac Gouy
On Jul 21, 10:09 pm, Raffael Cavallaro raffaelcavall...@pas.espam.s.il.vous.plait.mac.com wrote: On 2009-07-21 19:06:02 -0400, Neil Hodgson nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com said:    Python uses native threads. So it can be teh-slowness on all ur cores!

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread game_designer
Perhaps like Xah Lee I find, after many years of Lisp programming, these discussions increasingly frustrating and even, in some sense, amazing. We can speculate all we want about syntax and semantics of programing languages. What counts in the end are really the PRAGMATICS of programming

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Paul Donnelly
game_designer alex.repenn...@gmail.com writes: Perhaps like Xah Lee I find, after many years of Lisp programming, these discussions increasingly frustrating and even, in some sense, amazing. We can speculate all we want about syntax and semantics of programing languages. What counts in the

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Jon Harrop
Raffael Cavallaro wrote: Yes, you are missing the joke. The point is that if python is 60x slower than C, even if there were not a GIL, it would require running the python program on a 60 core machine just reach parity with C. The existence of the GIL means that in reality you'd probably need

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Paul Rubin
Nobody nob...@nowhere.com writes: They also have the advantage that one thread can run while another is waiting on disk I/O, which isn't something which can be done with a select/poll interface (even if select/poll worked for files, it doesn't help for mapped files). AIO can help with this,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 23, 2:37 am, Nobody nob...@nowhere.com wrote: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:17:52 -0700, Carl Banks wrote: So do all these OSes have some kind of __mega_unifying_poll system call that works for anything that might possibly block, that you can exploit from a user process? Threads ;) Yeah,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-23 Thread Rui Maciel
fft1976 wrote: How do you explain that something as inferior as Python beat Lisp in the market place despite starting 40 years later. Probably due to similar reasons that lead php to become remotely relevant. Rui Maciel -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Ron Garret
In article urr9m.6558$ze1.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au, Neil Hodgson nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com wrote: milanj: and all of them use native threads (python still use green threads ?) Python uses native threads. But then it adds the global interpreter lock, which completely

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 22, 9:36 am, Ron Garret rnospa...@flownet.com wrote: In article urr9m.6558$ze1.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au,  Neil Hodgson nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com wrote: milanj: and all of them use native threads (python still use green threads ?)    Python uses native threads. But

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: Wrong. It only partially undermines the utility of native threads, not completely. Native threading allows some threads to run while others are blocked in a system call (as well as in a few other minor cases), which can't be done with green

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 22, 10:20 am, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: Wrong.  It only partially undermines the utility of native threads, not completely.  Native threading allows some threads to run while others are blocked in a system call (as well

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-07-22, Ron Garret rnospa...@flownet.com wrote: In article urr9m.6558$ze1.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au, Neil Hodgson nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com wrote: milanj: and all of them use native threads (python still use green threads ?) Python uses native threads. But then it

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 22, 12:04 pm, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: Why is that such an advantage?  Green threads work fine if you just organize the i/o system to never block.   Because then I don't have to organize the I/O system never to

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Jean-Paul Calderone
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:35:52 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 22, 12:04 pm, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: Why is that such an advantage?  Green threads work fine if you just organize the i/o system

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 22, 1:53 pm, Jean-Paul Calderone exar...@divmod.com wrote: On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:35:52 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 22, 12:04 pm, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: Why is that such an

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com writes: I don't think your fantasy async-only all-green-thread langauge implementation is possible anyway. Erlang and GHC both work like that, quite successfully: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=threadringlang=all How would you

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Rainer Joswig
On 21 Jul., 06:57, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: Scott Burson wrote: Have you looked at ECL? http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ I've used it only a little, so I can't vouch for its stability, but it fits the threading and license requirements (well, some corporate lawyers have trouble

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Juanjo
On Jul 21, 6:57 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: Scott Burson wrote: Have you looked atECL? http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ I've used it only a little, so I can't vouch for its stability, but it fits the threading and license requirements (well, some corporate lawyers have trouble

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread milanj
On Jul 19, 8:31 pm, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: Python is not that bad. Unlike Lisp, there is much less undefined behavior, there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X, which is stable, support multithreading and has a default GUI

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-21 05:37:27 -0400, milanj mil...@gmail.com said: Someone should mention Clozure CL - http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl As you can see there is os x, freebsd, linux, solaris and windows port and all of them use native threads (python still use green threads ?) and development is pretty

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Slobodan Blazeski
On Jul 19, 7:33 pm, fft1976 fft1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object 2/3. In Python 2.6 2 / 3 results in 0. Looks like with Python 3.1 they have fixed it,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Frank Buss
Rainer Joswig wrote: I'm not sure if it is fair to post a reference to a single post by someone without context and without having used ECL. If there are stability problems, people can report to the ECL mailing list. The maintainers are very active. This was just one example. Another one:

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Tim Bradshaw
On 2009-07-19 19:31:36 +0100, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de said: (e.g. I don't know of a free modern and stable Lisp implemenation with mulithreading support for Windows, with a licence with which you can use it in closed source commercial programs, like you can do with Python). Openmcl

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread greg
Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: Besides, one can legitimately disagree that 2/3 = 0 is the wrong thing to do. It's the right thing to do if you're doing integer maths. True, but the question is how best to decide whether the programmer wants to do integer maths.

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
Tim Bradshaw t...@cley.com writes: On 2009-07-19 19:31:36 +0100, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de said: (e.g. I don't know of a free modern and stable Lisp implemenation with mulithreading support for Windows, with a licence with which you can use it in closed source commercial programs, like

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-21 Thread Raffael Cavallaro
On 2009-07-21 19:06:02 -0400, Neil Hodgson nyamatongwe+thun...@gmail.com said: Python uses native threads. So it can be teh-slowness on all ur cores! http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=nbodylang=all The global interpreter lock doesn't help much either. -- Raffael

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Bob Martin
in 121683 20090719 210126 Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: Roy Smith wrote: In article 1cethsrrw8h6k$.9ty7j7u7zovn@40tude.net, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X Most people would still

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: Besides, one can legitimately disagree that 2/3 = 0 is the wrong thing to do. It's the right thing to do if you're doing integer maths. I wonder whether 2/3 = ValueError is preferable. --

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Frank Buss
Bob Martin wrote: I think the OP means major PC operating systems. Those with a wider knowledge of the computer world would consider IBM's mainframe operating systems to be deserving of the description major. Maybe you are right, if you mean big machines. I know mainframes a bit and there

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Bob Martin
in 121708 20090720 072858 Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: Bob Martin wrote: I think the OP means major PC operating systems. Those with a wider knowledge of the computer world would consider IBM's mainframe operating systems to be deserving of the description major. Maybe you are right,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 19, 10:18 pm, Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com wrote: Uh Carl ... are you familiar with the concept of mocking humor? You got me, lip hurts bad. :) Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread vippstar
On Jul 20, 9:13 am, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: Besides, one can legitimately disagree that 2/3 = 0 is the wrong thing to do. It's the right thing to do if you're doing integer maths. I wonder whether 2/3 =

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-07-20, Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com wrote: In fact, picking a computer language is the most important discussion in Computer Science and eclipses even P=NP? in significance. I sure hope we can keep this thread going for a few months. Please feel free to extend this flame-war

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Paul Rubin
vippstar vipps...@gmail.com writes: I wonder whether 2/3 = ValueError is preferable. Not all software wants this. It shouldn't be part of the language but rather part of your code if you need such a feature. (for instance, to distinguish between 2/3 and divisions with 0 dividend). I don't

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Marcus Wanner
On 7/20/2009 2:13 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: Besides, one can legitimately disagree that 2/3 = 0 is the wrong thing to do. It's the right thing to do if you're doing integer maths. I wonder whether 2/3 = ValueError is preferable. Not

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread vippstar
On Jul 20, 7:50 pm, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: vippstar vipps...@gmail.com writes: I wonder whether 2/3 = ValueError is preferable. Not all software wants this. It shouldn't be part of the language but rather part of your code if you need such a feature. (for instance,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Scott Burson
On Jul 19, 11:31 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: I don't know of a free modern and stable Lisp implementation with mulithreading support for Windows, with a licence with which you can use it in closed source commercial programs Have you looked at ECL? http://ecls.sourceforge.net/

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Paul Rubin
vippstar vipps...@gmail.com writes: I don't see how to implement such a thing in my code, Write a function: (if ( x y) ValueError (/ x y)) I meant changing the behavior of integer division in python. Wouldn't that mean 3/2 would also evaluate to ValueError? Yes, the idea

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread vippstar
On Jul 21, 1:22 am, Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote: vippstar vipps...@gmail.com writes: I don't see how to implement such a thing in my code, Write a function:   (if ( x y)       ValueError       (/ x y)) I meant changing the behavior of integer division in python.

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-20 Thread Frank Buss
Scott Burson wrote: Have you looked at ECL? http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ I've used it only a little, so I can't vouch for its stability, but it fits the threading and license requirements (well, some corporate lawyers have trouble with the LGPL, but I think it's usable). I didn't tried

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread MRAB
fft1976 wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object 2/3. In Python 2.6 2 / 3 results in 0. Looks like with Python 3.1 they have fixed it, now it returns 0.66, which will

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Frank Buss
fft1976 wrote: How do you explain that something as inferior as Python beat Lisp in the market place despite starting 40 years later. Python is not that bad. Unlike Lisp, there is much less undefined behavior, there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Roy Smith
In article 1cethsrrw8h6k$.9ty7j7u7zovn@40tude.net, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X Most people would still consider Solaris to be a major platform. --

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Terry Reedy
Roy Smith wrote: In article 1cethsrrw8h6k$.9ty7j7u7zovn@40tude.net, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X Most people would still consider Solaris to be a major platform. ?? I do not, but I

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Emile van Sebille
On 7/19/2009 1:01 PM Terry Reedy said... Roy Smith wrote: In article 1cethsrrw8h6k$.9ty7j7u7zovn@40tude.net, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X Most people would still consider Solaris to be

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 19, 10:33 am, fft1976 fft1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object 2/3. In Python 2.6 2 / 3 results in 0. Looks like with Python 3.1 they have fixed it,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Tim Daneliuk
Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 19, 10:33 am, fft1976 fft1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object 2/3. In Python 2.6 2 / 3 results in 0. Looks like with Python 3.1

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Paul Rubin
Emile van Sebille em...@fenx.com writes: Most people would still consider Solaris to be a major platform. ?? I do not, but I have no idea what comes in 4th after the other three by whatever metric. one metric calls fourth as the iPhone OS...

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Carl Banks
On Jul 19, 4:29 pm, Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com wrote: Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 19, 10:33 am, fft1976 fft1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Marek Kubica
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:09:28 -0400 Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: In article 1cethsrrw8h6k$.9ty7j7u7zovn@40tude.net, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: there is one free unique implementation on the 3 major platforms Linux, Windows and MacOS X Most people would still consider

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:33:39 -0700, fft1976 wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the fractional object 2/3. In Python 2.6 2 / 3 results in 0. Looks like with Python 3.1 they have fixed it,

Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?

2009-07-19 Thread Tim Daneliuk
Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 19, 4:29 pm, Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com wrote: Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 19, 10:33 am, fft1976 fft1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 19, 9:55 am, Frank Buss f...@frank-buss.de wrote: E.g. the number system: In many Lisp implementations (/ 2 3) results in the