On Apr 18, 3:39 pm, BJörn Lindqvist bjou...@gmail.com wrote:
I first started programming basic and i don't think it has hurt me much.
I can somewhat sympathise with the op, neither python nor any other
mainstream language can still do this:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
This is not true. It's
On Apr 21, 5:37 am, Ivan Illarionov ivan.illario...@gmail.com wrote:
On Apr 18, 3:39 pm, BJörn Lindqvist bjou...@gmail.com wrote:
I first started programming basic and i don't think it has hurt me much.
I can somewhat sympathise with the op, neither python nor any other
mainstream
Michael Torrie wrote:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html
Somebody better tell the Linux kernel developers about that! They
apparently haven't read that yet. Better tell CPU makers too. In
assembly it's all gotos.
I'm sure you are joking.
baykus wrote:
those lines as numbered steps or numbered bricks that are sitting on
eachother but I see them as timelines or like filmstrips. Anyways it
sounds like such a toy programming language does not exists except
Arnaud surprisingly efficient code. and I will search my dream
somewhere
2009/4/20 Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-cybersource.com.au:
Sheesh. Talk about cherry-picking data. Go read my post in it's entirety,
instead of quoting mining out of context. If you still think I'm unaware
of the difference between unstructured GOTOs and structured jumps, or
that I'm
When I was at Data General, writing C (and a little C++), we had a set
of internal coding conventions that mandated a single return point for
a function. Goto's were used during error checks to branch to the
function exit; something like this:
int
frodo() {
int rval = 0;
if (bilbo() != 0) {
2009/4/20 david youngde...@gmail.com:
When I was at Data General, writing C (and a little C++), we had a set
of internal coding conventions that mandated a single return point for
a function.
How long ago was that? Or, more relevant, how old was the rule? Or how
long earlier had the person who
I was at DG in the early nineties. A lot of very smart people devised
some of these conventions, from hard-earned experience in the kernel
and system-level software. I've never been one for fascist-rules
documents, but in DG's case many of the rules made good sense. I'm
not advocating one approach
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:33:23 +0100, Tim Wintle wrote:
On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 05:08 +, Zaphod wrote:
Well, most of the Linux kernel is written in C and while there *is* a
jump (often JMP) in most asms, you should only do so if you really need
to. JSR (jump sub routine) is a better idea in
On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 06:26 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
(btw, how come nobody has mentioned python bytecode? Most flow
control is jumps)
I wrote yesterday:
GOTO, after all, is just a jump, and we use jumps in Python all the
time:
raise Exception
break
continue
if... elif...
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 05:08:32 GMT
Zaphod zap...@beeblebrox.net wrote:
Friend of mine made a really nice asm development environment for his
home made OS. Too bad he didn't have any marketing skills.
Was your friend's name Gary Kildall? :-)
--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net |
I started my commercial programming in Business Basic, (actually MAI
Basic 4, and it's equivalent on primos (can't think of it's name at
the moment) then later BBX (Basis)
We ran the same code (all development on MAI, and then translated the
few differences programatically between MAI and Prime)
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:09:07 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 05:08:32 GMT
Zaphod zap...@beeblebrox.net wrote:
Friend of mine made a really nice asm development environment for his
home made OS. Too bad he didn't have any marketing skills.
Was your friend's name Gary
2009/4/19 Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-cybersource.com.au:
GOTO, after all, is just a jump, and we use jumps in Python all the time:
raise Exception
break
continue
if... elif... else...
for... else...
etc.
So as a syllogism:
P1: GOTO is a jump;
P2: GOTO is bad.
C: Jumps are bad.
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:23:03 +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
2009/4/19 Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-cybersource.com.au:
GOTO, after all, is just a jump, and we use jumps in Python all the
time:
raise Exception
break
continue
if... elif... else...
for... else...
etc.
So as a syllogism:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:26:32 -0700, norseman wrote:
The
average programmer, who takes a moment to think it out,
A moment? As in, a second or less?
can out optimize
all but the best commercial compilers. The meticulous individual can
usually match or best the best commercials with fewer
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:45:30 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
Nevertheless, somebody *has* implemented such functionality in Python.
Not just GOTO, but also COMEFROM.
Really? Well, _I_ for one, won't be beating a path to his door.
Well you should. It's very clever code, and the way he solved the
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
To
paraphrase Charles Fiterman, the human should always win, because the
human can use the machine, but the machine can't use the human.
Unless the machine is Omnius.
--
Greg
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I first started programming basic and i don't think it has hurt me much.
I can somewhat sympathise with the op, neither python nor any other
mainstream language can still do this:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
2009/4/17, Leguia, Tony legui...@grinnell.edu:
Though I don't know why you would want
BJörn Lindqvist wrote:
I first started programming basic and i don't think it has hurt me much.
I can somewhat sympathise with the op, neither python nor any other
mainstream language can still do this:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
Maybe, who is able to understand such nosense without a lot
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:00:18 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:37 pm, baykus baykusde...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
That's a clue you
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:39:23 +0200, BJörn Lindqvist wrote:
I first started programming basic and i don't think it has hurt me much.
I can somewhat sympathise with the op, neither python nor any other
mainstream language can still do this:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
Maybe, maybe not.
On 18 Apr 2009 16:29:30 GMT
Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:39:23 +0200, BJörn Lindqvist wrote:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
Maybe, maybe not. What on earth does it do?
It makes people scratch their heads and wonder what the hell it does.
2009/4/18 norseman norse...@hughes.net:
...only within the current procedure. That was one of the why Pascal
didn't hang on as long as it might have.
Really? I thought it was because of the lack of support for packaging,
which was solved in different ways by Object Pascal/Delphi and by
In article mailman.4112.1240072722.11746.python-l...@python.org,
Tim Rowe digi...@gmail.com wrote:
Really? I thought it was because of the lack of support for packaging,
which was solved in different ways by Object Pascal/Delphi and by
Modula 2, the latter of which in turn became Ada, which is
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
Maybe, maybe not. What on earth does it do?
I believe this attempts to set screen-mode 13 (I'm surprised this
isn't a hex constant, though that may be a (Q)Basic quirk), which
for older VGA cards was 320x200 with 256-colors. It then looks
like it sets a point at
2009/4/18 Aahz a...@pythoncraft.com:
blink I had never previously heard that Modula-2 significantly
influenced Ada, and the Wikipedia entry says nothing about it. Do you
have a cite?
Not in writing. I got it from a SPARK user group meeting many years
ago. SPARK is, of course a subset of Ada
baykus wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days. It would be interesting to
Stef Mientki wrote:
BJörn Lindqvist wrote:
SCREEN 13
PSET 160,100,255
Maybe, who is able to understand such nosense without a lot of apriori
knowledge ?
You already needed that sort of knowledge to be able to use a computer back
then... ;-)
--
JanC
--
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:07:10 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
Aahz wrote:
Why do you want to do that? Before you answer, make sure to read this:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/
Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html
Somebody better tell the Linux kernel developers about that!
On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 05:08 +, Zaphod wrote:
Well, most of the Linux kernel is written in C and while there *is* a
jump (often JMP) in most asms, you should only do so if you really
need
to. JSR (jump sub routine) is a better idea in many (most?) cases.
Have to say that I feel jump is
In article f222fcd3-56a4-4b2f-9bf8-3c9c17664...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com,
baykus baykusde...@gmail.com wrote:
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always
On Apr 17, 3:37 pm, baykus baykusde...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
That's a clue you won't find anyone seriously contemplating
such idiocy.
The reason I am
Though I don't know why you would want to reference lines numbers, I assume
it's for goto statements or something similar.
With that said please read:
1)
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html
I would also like to put forth my opinion, shared by
I guess I did not articulate myself well enough. I was just looking
for a toy to play around. I never suggested that Python+Basic would be
better than Python and everyone should use it. Python is Python and
Basic is Basic. I am not comparing them at all. I understand the
merits of Python but that
baykus baykusde...@gmail.com writes:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days.
baykus wrote:
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days. It would be interesting to
Mensanator wrote:
I once translated a BASIC program to Pascal (hint: no goto allowed).
The original code had GOSUBs that never executed a REURN because
the programmer jumped away to line numbers on a whim. Biggest piece
of crap I ever had to misfortune to deal with.
It's clear that you
Aahz wrote:
Why do you want to do that? Before you answer, make sure to read this:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html
Somebody better tell the Linux kernel developers about that! They
apparently haven't read that yet. Better tell CPU makers
On Apr 17, 2009, at 16:37 , baykus wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days.
On Apr 17, 5:02 pm, Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
Mensanator wrote:
It's clear that you haven't done anything in BASIC since the 80s. And
probably the original poster hasn't either. So let's just clear the air
here.
Michael you are kind of rigtht, I did use basic in early 90s :)
Somebody better tell the Linux kernel developers about that! They
apparently haven't read that yet. Better tell CPU makers too. In
assembly it's all gotos.
There a very big difference between high level programming, and assembly
programming.
Python is a high level language.
I shouldn't have
Michael Torrie wrote:
baykus wrote:
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days. It would
On Apr 17, 5:02 pm, Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
Mensanator wrote:
I once translated a BASIC program to Pascal (hint: no goto allowed).
The original code had GOSUBs that never executed a REURN because
the programmer jumped away to line numbers on a whim. Biggest piece
of crap I
2009/4/17 Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com:
Spaghetti code can be written in *any* language.
I challenge you to write spahgetti code in SPARK!
--
Tim Rowe
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Michael Torrie wrote:
Aahz wrote:
Why do you want to do that? Before you answer, make sure to read this:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html
Somebody better tell the Linux kernel developers about that! They
apparently haven't read that yet.
baykus wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
The reason I am asking is that I always liked how I could reference-
call certain line number back in the days. It would be interesting to
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:00:18 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:37 pm, baykus baykusde...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of python+basic. Now thta sounds weird and awkward I know.
That's a clue you won't find anyone
On Apr 17, 9:43 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:00:18 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:37 pm, baykus baykusde...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
I am looking for one of those experimental languages that might be
combination of
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:00:18 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
...(snip)
Pascal has GOTOs. People rarely used them, because even in the 1970s and
80s they knew that unstructured gotos to arbitrary places was a terrible
idea.
Even in primarily assembly only days that was
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