Hi Groetjes Albert,
I spotted your comment - re: pointers
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/5c1e25919b6a74bf
On Feb 22, 11:44 pm, Albert van der Horst alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
wrote:
(I once studied algol 68, and never got confused about these
subjects anymore, recommended.)
In article mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-l...@python.org,
Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of pointer
remains: pointer refers to a copyable reference
Alf said (2/13/2010 8:34 PM):
Names in Python refer to objects.
Those references can be copied via assignment.
That's (almost) all.
And it provides a very short and neat way to describe pass by sharing.
Alf also said (2/13/2010 8:43 PM):
* Steve Howell:
This thread is interesting on
John Posner jjpos...@optimum.net writes:
[...]
x = s[0]
[...]
assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).
--
Arnaud
--
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
John Posner jjpos...@optimum.net writes: [...]
x = s[0]
[...]
assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
course, otherwise it's just a
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
John Posner jjpos...@optimum.net writes: [...]
x = s[0]
[...]
assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
course, otherwise
On 2/15/2010 6:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
John Posnerjjpos...@optimum.net writes: [...]
x = s[0]
[...]
assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once
On Feb 10, 6:16 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native
English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Michael Sparks spark...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Alf,
On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
appreciated.
I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
since you
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Steve Howell showel...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:16 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
The term pointer is very abstract. Please give me a concrete
definition of a pointer.
A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
points to) another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer
memory.
I
On Feb 14, 7:11 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
The term pointer is very abstract. Please give me a concrete
definition of a pointer.
A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
Steve Howell wrote:
On Feb 14, 7:11 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
The term pointer is very abstract. Please give me a concrete
definition of a pointer.
A programming language data type whose value
* Ethan Furman:
Steve Howell wrote:
Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
although I think even there you're really just dealing with
abstractions. The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:23 PM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
[blah, blah, blah]
First of all, we all know how D Aprano has such an unfettered ego
problem.
[blah, blah, blah]
And as always the roaches start
coming out of the woodwork in a most pathetic puppy dog way. What
would
In article mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-l...@python.org,
Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does
In article mailman.2489.1266053149.28905.python-l...@python.org,
Dennis Lee Bieber wlfr...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:23:46 -0800 (PST), rantingrick
rantingr...@gmail.com declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:
This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star
Hi Alf,
On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
appreciated.
I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
since you can see I am not flaming you.
I was seeking to educate you on a simple matter
* Aahz:
In article mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-l...@python.org,
Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
expression) is absolutely no use as an
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it
all!), I felt it necessary to respond. It turned out to be a long sequence of
trivial fallacies, peppered with various allegations and insinuations.]
[snip extremely much]
Now let's move to the
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it
all!)
[...]
Therefore to say in reality the implementation will be passing a
reference or pointer is invalid. There is after all at least one
implementation that does not
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800, Michael Sparks wrote:
Now, if I define a language, this has 3 main parts:
* Syntax
* Semantics
* Implementation
[snip]
Michael, that is remarkable. Excellent work, thank you!
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it
all!)
[...]
Therefore to say in reality the implementation will be passing a
reference or pointer is invalid. There is after all at least one
implementation
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
read it all!)
[...]
Therefore to say in reality the implementation will be passing a
reference or pointer is invalid. There is after all at
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
But if it is
* Benjamin Kaplan:
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't
* Steve Howell:
This thread is interesting on many levels. What is the core question
that is being examined here?
I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers to an
object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can be copied,
and that the
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
read it all!)
[...]
Therefore to say in reality the implementation will be passing a
reference or pointer is invalid. There is after all at
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Michael Sparks:
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
read it all!)
[...]
Therefore to say in reality the implementation will be passing a
reference or pointer is invalid. There
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Howell:
This thread is interesting on many levels. What is the core question
that is being examined here?
I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers
to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can
be
In article hl6ilk$f7...@news.eternal-september.org,
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
references.
Assuming this is what you're referring to:
Python
On Feb 13, 6:41 pm, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
In article hl6ilk$f7...@news.eternal-september.org,
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
references.
On Feb 13, 6:10 pm, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Howell:
This thread is interesting on many levels. What is the core question
that is being examined here?
I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers
to an object or
Alf P. Steinbach a écrit :
(snip)
This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal
attacks
Oh my...
(snip remaining non-sense)
Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another flaming and personal
attack, but nonetheless : you might have happier time if you were able
to
* Bruno Desthuilliers:
Alf P. Steinbach a écrit :
(snip)
This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal
attacks
Oh my...
(snip remaining non-sense)
Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another flaming and personal
attack, but nonetheless : you might have happier
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
the person you're debating with.
As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?
Or is it only
This thread is interesting on many levels. What is the core question
that is being examined here?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
* Aahz:
In article hl6ilk$f7...@news.eternal-september.org,
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
references.
Assuming this is what you're referring to:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
On Feb 13, 6:41 pm, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
programming language does not have pointers.
I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of
On Feb 13, 7:53 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
On Feb 13, 6:41 pm, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
programming language does not
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth. There
is no reductio adsurbum. If I argued that CPython had curly braced
syntax that would be absurd,
On Feb 13, 9:13 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth. There
is no reductio
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
You seem to be missing the point that curly braces is a concrete
term that very specifically applies to spelling.
And you seem to be missing the point that pointer is also a concrete
term that very specifically applies to, well,
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
You seem to be missing the point that curly braces is a concrete
term that very specifically applies to spelling.
And you seem to be missing the point that pointer is also a concrete
term that very specifically
On Feb 13, 11:21 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
You seem to be missing the point that curly braces is a concrete
term that very specifically applies to spelling.
And you seem to be missing the point
cut all
Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every
now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.
--
mph
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Hi Alf,
Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
implementation. That distinction is very important.
On Feb 11, 4:49 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
*The* standard general language independent definition?
[ of pointer ]
Yes.
As defined where?
For example, as
* Michael Sparks:
Hi Alf,
Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
implementation. That distinction is very important.
Yes.
It would seem to readers that posters here do not grasp and are unable to grasp
that distinction.
However, all those references to implementation
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
wrote about pointers in C++.
It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
wrote about pointers in C++.
It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.
Yes, sorry.
It's been that way a long time, and for the same reason my C++ tutorial, the
only
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
the person you're debating with.
As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[...]
Of course most anyone else who'd hold the
rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly
wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that
follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
In other words, you must have the
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
the person you're debating with.
As negative as accusing
* Mark Lawrence:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no
references in Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal
attacks on the one person arguing that there are. I could easily think
that you were having me on. Of course
This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star into an infantile
debate that only Caddie Couric, Bill O Reilly, and everyone on PMS-NBC
can hold a candle to! The only post i enjoyed was Steve Howes!
From my unique perspective of not really knowing (or for that matter)
really caring about any
* I V:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
s = [1]
t = s # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
t[0] = 2 # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s) #
Checks the object via the original name.
Notice that your
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no writes:
[...]
That's bullshit.
[...]
not any that you know about.
[...]
yet another ad hominem attack
[...]
It also reflects rather badly on you.
[...]
- Alf
Alf,
The above was extracted from the last post from you but I could have
picked almost any of your
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
[...]
In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
[...]
accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
That is untrue.
Well, that says it all really.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
[...]
accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
That is untrue.
Well, that says it all really.
You seem to insinuate that I'm saying that Steven is lying, and/or that Steven
is lying.
From context
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
[...]
In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
You apparently feel it is quite
On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Consider just the
assert( t is not s )
t = s
Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans)
or specifically 'electronic computer'?
But since it does have an
* Terry Reedy:
On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Consider just the
assert( t is not s )
t = s
Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans)
or specifically 'electronic computer'?
In this
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:17 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was
very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm
languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron
'executable pseudocode' for Python.
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.
Pardon me, but you most certainly can. Even
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.
Pardon me, but you most
* Martin P. Hellwig:
cut all
Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every
now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.
The technical discussion is now at point where one poster maintains that
* Stephen Hansen:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
mailto:al...@start.no wrote:
[abundant snips which do not accurately represent who said what where
due to my own laziness]
Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
You've dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
That's invalid, cuz.
That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond In my own head this is
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which
Steve Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.
Really, I do have to say.
It's one thing to say, Aren't you being rude?
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
(and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
address. Try comparing the IronPython
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You've
dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
That's invalid, cuz.
That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
understand you are
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Steven D'Aprano
st...@remove-this-cybersource.com.au wrote:
While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't
* Duncan Booth:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
(and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
address. Try comparing the
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You've
dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
That's invalid, cuz.
That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to argue
with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who
are attempting to teach him. At the rate it's going, though, I
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Duncan Booth:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
(and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
address.
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java language
spec.
Python doesn't have copyable reference values in the Python level. It
has objects.
It
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of pointer
remains: pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
Python level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java
language spec.
[snip]
If so, then that's
* Ethan Furman:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to
argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who
are attempting to teach him. At the rate it's
On 2/10/2010 1:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I
might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning
presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not
worth paying for.
Alf, here's my
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java language
spec.
Python doesn't have copyable reference values in the Python level. It
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
anything, namely as exemplified by
def foo():
print( x )
x = whatever
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
anything, namely as exemplified by
def foo():
print( x )
x =
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Ethan Furman:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to
argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who
are attempting to teach
* Steve Holden:
So now the whole thing boils down to Alf against the world? The
reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
she said it was very nice, but that everyone but our Alf was out of
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of pointer
remains: pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
Python level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java
language spec.
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
*The* standard general language independent definition? As defined where?
Wait, what happened here?
This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed out its futility, and
even knowing better, I jumped in the deep end.
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
So now the whole thing boils down to Alf against the world? The
reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
she said it was very nice, but that everyone
Stephen Hansen wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com
mailto:st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
*The* standard general language independent definition? As
defined where?
Wait, what happened here?
This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of pointer
remains: pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
Python level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java
Steve wrote:
id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the
memory
address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.
* Steve Holden:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steve Holden:
So now the whole thing boils down to Alf against the world? The
reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
she said it was very nice, but
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java language
spec.
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
Telling someone to learn to read is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
Ad hominem.
So, you
are misrepresenting -- again -- and in a quite revealing way, sorry.
Ad hominem.
Yes, in
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
pointer refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
level, in the same way as pointer is used by e.g. the Java
* alex23:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
Telling someone to learn to read is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
Ad hominem.
So, you
are misrepresenting -- again -- and in a quite revealing way, sorry.
Ad
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Steven D'Aprano:
s = [1]
t = s # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
t[0] = 2 # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s) #
Checks the object via the original name.
Notice that your
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.
x = 5
y = hello
You want us to accept that the values of x and y are some mysterious
pointer entities rather than the integer object 5 and the string object
hello.
At the point that
* Steven D'Aprano:
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.
x = 5
The above assigns to x a pointer to an object whose value is 5:
x -- 5
y = hello
Ditto result:
y -- hello
And if now do
x = y
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