Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 10/12/17 02:42, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 09:20 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> On 12/9/2017 5:57 AM, Gilmeh Serda wrote: >> >>> And next demands to allow Unicode as keywords in a translated version of >>> Python >> >> Python's liberal open source license allows people to revise

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 09:20 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 12/9/2017 5:57 AM, Gilmeh Serda wrote: > >> And next demands to allow Unicode as keywords in a translated version of >> Python > > Python's liberal open source license allows people to revise and > distribute their own python or python-like

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 12/9/2017 5:57 AM, Gilmeh Serda wrote: And next demands to allow Unicode as keywords in a translated version of Python Python's liberal open source license allows people to revise and distribute their own python or python-like interpreters. I believe there are already a couple of

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC, wxjmfauth wrote: > Le lundi 27 novembre 2017 14:52:19 UTC+1, Rustom Mody a ÄCcritâ : > > On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:48:56 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote: > > > Having said that I should be honest to mention that I saw your post first > on > >

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 2017-11-24 04:52:57 +0100, Mikhail V wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 4:13 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > >> From my above example, you could probably see that I prefer somewhat > >> middle-sized

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:48:56 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote: > Having said that I should be honest to mention that I saw your post first on > my phone where the î, showed but the gØÜ« showed as a rectangle something like âî$ > > I suspect that îö OTOH would have workedâ | dunno Yeah îö

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 3:43:20 PM UTC+5:30, Antoon Pardon wrote: > Op 23-11-17 om 19:42 schreef Mikhail V: > > Chris A wrote: > > > >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > >>> > Chris A wrote: > > Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator

Le lundi 27 novembre 2017 14:52:19 UTC+1, Rustom Mody a ÄCcritâ : > On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:48:56 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote: > > Having said that I should be honest to mention that I saw your post first on > > my phone where the î, showed but the gØÜ« showed as a rectangle something

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator

Op 23-11-17 om 19:42 schreef Mikhail V: > Chris A wrote: > >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> Chris A wrote: Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided which characters were permitted in Python identifiers. The ability to use

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:48:56 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote: > Having said that I should be honest to mention that I saw your post first on > my phone where the θ showed but the 횫 showed as a rectangle something like ⌧ > > I suspect that Δ OTOH would have worked… dunno Yeah Δ shows

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 3:43:20 PM UTC+5:30, Antoon Pardon wrote: > Op 23-11-17 om 19:42 schreef Mikhail V: > > Chris A wrote: > > > >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > >>> > Chris A wrote: > > Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

Op 23-11-17 om 19:42 schreef Mikhail V: > Chris A wrote: > >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> Chris A wrote: Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided which characters were permitted in Python identifiers. The ability to use

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Personally I feel that there should be a law against languages that disallow > the creation of magic tricks!¡! I agree. The programming language should also ensure that your program will terminate eventually, that it

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 6:03:52 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 12:20:29 AM UTC+5:30, Mikhail V wrote: > > Ok, I personally could find some practical usage for that, but > > merely for fun. I doubt though that someone with less > > typographical

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 12:20:29 AM UTC+5:30, Mikhail V wrote: > Ok, I personally could find some practical usage for that, but > merely for fun. I doubt though that someone with less > typographical experience and overall computer literacy could > really make benefits even for personal

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/24/17 5:46 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote: On 11/24/17 5:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: Have you tried using U+2010 (HYPHEN) ‐. It is in the class XID_CONTINUE (in fact it is in XID_START) so should be available. U+2010 isn't allowed in Python 3 identifiers. The rules for identifiers are here:

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/24/17 5:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: Have you tried using U+2010 (HYPHEN) ‐. It is in the class XID_CONTINUE (in fact it is in XID_START) so should be available. U+2010 isn't allowed in Python 3 identifiers. The rules for identifiers are here:

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > > Have you tried using U+2010 (HYPHEN) ‐. It is in the class XID_CONTINUE (in > fact it is in XID_START) so should be available. > Hi Richard. U+2010 is SyntaxError. 5 days ago I made a proposal on python-ideas,

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/24/17 4:04 PM, Mikhail V wrote: On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Mikhail V wrote: I agree that one should have more choices, but people still can't really choose many things. I can't choose

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thursday, November 23, 2017 at 6:50:29 PM UTC, Mikhail V wrote: > Chris A wrote: > > >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > >> > >>> Chris A wrote: > >>> > >>> Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided which > >>> characters were permitted in Python identifiers.

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thursday, November 23, 2017 at 3:06:00 PM UTC-6, Chris Angelico wrote: > Seriously? Do I need to wrench this part out of you? This > was supposed to be the EASY question that everyone can > agree on, from which I can then draw my line of argument. Translation: "Dag-nab-it! You're supposed

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >> I agree that one should have more choices, but >> people still can't really choose many things. >> I can't choose hyphen, I can't choose minus

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> and in Python in particular, because they will be not only

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > I agree that one should have more choices, but > people still can't really choose many things. > I can't choose hyphen, I can't choose minus sign, > and many tech people would probably want more operators. > It counts

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > >>> and in Python in particular, because they will be not only forced to learn >>> some english, but also will have all 'pleasures' of

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> and in Python in particular, because they will be not only forced to learn >> some english, but also will have all 'pleasures' of multi-script editing. >> But wait, probably one can write python code in, say Arabic

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 05:47:04PM -0700, Ian Kelly wrote: > > Understanding, let alone being able to read, code written in Arabic ? > > People are going to write code in Arabic whether you like it or not, > because not everybody speaks English, and not everybody who does > *wants* to use it.

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 4:13 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> From my above example, you could probably see that I prefer somewhat

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 4:13 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Mikhail V wrote: >> From my above example, you could probably see that I prefer somewhat >> middle-sized identifiers, one-two syllables. And naturally, they tend to

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > From my above example, you could probably see that I prefer somewhat > middle-sized identifiers, one-two syllables. And naturally, they tend to > reflect some process/meaining, it is not always achievable, > but yes there

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Mikhail V

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > The Unicode Standard provides a fairly good classification of the > characters, and it would make sense to define that an character that is > defined as a 'Letter' or a 'Number', and some classes of Punctuation >

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Karsten Hilbert wrote: > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 08:46:01PM +0100, Thomas Jollans wrote: > >> > I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average >> > Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer job. >> > And who

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 24/11/17 00:18, Richard Damon wrote: > On 11/23/17 5:45 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: >> On 23/11/17 23:15, Richard Damon wrote: >>> My thought is you define a legal only those Unicode characters that via >>> the defined classification would be normally legal, but perhaps the >>> first

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/23/17 5:45 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: On 23/11/17 23:15, Richard Damon wrote: My thought is you define a legal only those Unicode characters that via the defined classification would be normally legal, but perhaps the first implementation doesn't diagnose many of the illegal combinations.

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 23/11/17 23:15, Richard Damon wrote: > > My thought is you define a legal only those Unicode characters that via > the defined classification would be normally legal, but perhaps the > first implementation doesn't diagnose many of the illegal combinations. > If that isn't Pythonic, then yes,

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/23/17 4:31 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Richard Damon wrote: On 11/23/17 2:46 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: On 23/11/17 19:42, Mikhail V wrote: I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average Python programmer or

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 11/23/17 2:46 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: >> >> On 23/11/17 19:42, Mikhail V wrote: >>> >>> I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average >>> Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 11/23/17 2:46 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: On 23/11/17 19:42, Mikhail V wrote: I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer job. And who does not have a 500-key keyboard, I don't think it's too much to ask for a

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> I see you manually 'optimise' the look? >>> I personally would end

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >> I see you manually 'optimise' the look? >> I personally would end with something like this: >> >> def zip_longest(*A, **K): >> value = K.get

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > I see you manually 'optimise' the look? > I personally would end with something like this: > > def zip_longest(*A, **K): > value = K.get ('fillvalue') > count = len(a) - 1 > def sentinel(): > nonlocal

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > Let's start with a simpler question. Which of these is better code? > > # == Option 1 > class ZipExhausted(Exception): > pass > > def zip_longest(*args, **kwds): > # zip_longest('ABCD', 'xy', fillvalue='-')

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Thomas Jollans wrote: > On 23/11/17 19:42, Mikhail V wrote: >> I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average >> Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer job. >> And who does not have a 500-key keyboard, > > I don't

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 08:46:01PM +0100, Thomas Jollans wrote: > > I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average > > Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer job. > > And who does not have a 500-key keyboard, > > I don't think it's too much to ask for a

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On 23/11/17 19:42, Mikhail V wrote: > I mean for a real practical situation - for example for an average > Python programmer or someone who seeks a programmer job. > And who does not have a 500-key keyboard, I don't think it's too much to ask for a programmer to have the technology and expertise

Re: Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 5:42 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > Chris A wrote: > >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> Chris A wrote: Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided which characters were permitted in Python identifiers.

Benefits of unicode identifiers (was: Allow additional separator in identifiers)

Chris A wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Mikhail V wrote: >> >>> Chris A wrote: >>> >>> Fortunately for the world, you're not the one who decided which >>> characters were permitted in Python identifiers. The ability to use >>> non-English words for function/variable names is of huge