Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Jp Calderone wrote: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Are you simply showing that there are two points of view here, that one can look at the wx main loop as being blocking, waiting for I/O, even though it is simply doing asynchronous event-driven processing the same as Twisted? Or am I missing something? Allowing for the fact that wx blocks, not just for long periods of time, but *indefinitely* (as long as no events are arriving) I still don't see how that makes it different from Twisted or from any other typical GUI framework, which do exactly the same thing. (And since there is even a wxPython main loop integrated with and provided in Twisted, surely you aren't arguing that what wx does is somehow unusual or bad.) Or are you simply saying that parts of wx are slow and take a while to complete operations? If that's all, I haven't seen such behaviour... what areas are of concern? -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Cheers for the replies people, but I got it sorted by just whacking in wx.YieldIfNeeded() in the code before it communicates over the socket. It's kind of jerky, but it works, where as before I'd click and drag, and the 3d view wouldn't move for about 20 seconds. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:51:45 -0400, Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jp Calderone wrote: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? wxWidgets' event loop doesn't differentiate between two unrelated (but similar sounding) concepts: blocking arbitrary input from the user (as in the case of modal dialogs) and blocking execution of code. When you pop up a modal dialog, your code will not get another chance to run until the user dismisses it. Similarly, as long as a menu is open, your code will not get to run. Jp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
On 20 Jul 2005 22:06:31 -0700, Paul Rubin http://phr.cx@nospam.invalid wrote: Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? Huh? It's pretty normal, the gui blocks while waiting for events from the window system. I expect that Qt and Tk work the same way. But not Gtk? :) I meant what I said: wxWidgets behaves differently in this regard than Gtk, Qt, and Tk. Jp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 05:42:32 -, Donn Cave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoth Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]: | Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* | blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from | getting attention. But I agree with your position for other | toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. | | Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? | | Huh? It's pretty normal, the gui blocks while waiting for events | from the window system. I expect that Qt and Tk work the same way. In fact anything works that way, that being the nature of I/O. But usually there's a way to add your own I/O source to be dispatched along with the UI events -- the toolkit will for example use select() to wait for X11 socket I/O, so it can also respond to incoming data on another socket, provided along with a callback function by the application. Am I hearing that wxWindows or other popular toolkits don't provide any such feature, and need multiple threads for this reason? Other popular toolkits do. wxWindows doesn't. Jp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:33:05 -0400, Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jp Calderone wrote: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Are you simply showing that there are two points of view here, that one can look at the wx main loop as being blocking, waiting for I/O, even though it is simply doing asynchronous event-driven processing the same as Twisted? Or am I missing something? Allowing for the fact that wx blocks, not just for long periods of time, but *indefinitely* (as long as no events are arriving) I still don't see how that makes it different from Twisted or from any other typical GUI framework, which do exactly the same thing. (And since there is even a wxPython main loop integrated with and provided in Twisted, surely you aren't arguing that what wx does is somehow unusual or bad.) Providing wx support in Twisted has been orders of magnitude more difficult than providing Tk, Qt, or Gtk support has been. And wxsupport and wxreactor are each broken in slightly different ways, so I wouldn't say we've been successful, either. Blocking inside the mainloop while waiting for events is fine. It's blocking elsewhere that is problematic. Jp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Paul Rubin wrote: Huh? It's pretty normal, the gui blocks while waiting for events from the window system. I expect that Qt and Tk work the same way. Which is why I recommended Twisted for the networking; it integrates with the toolkit event loops so it automagically works: http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/choosing-reactor.html#auto15 I agree, though, that basic socket programming in the same thread as the gui's probably a bad idea. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Jp Calderone wrote: On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:33:05 -0400, Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (And since there is even a wxPython main loop integrated with and provided in Twisted, surely you aren't arguing that what wx does is somehow unusual or bad.) Blocking inside the mainloop while waiting for events is fine. It's blocking elsewhere that is problematic. Thanks for the clarification. I can see how a wx modal dialog could cause trouble, though I didn't know holding a menu open had the same nasty behaviour. For me, this is merely justification to continue using separate threads for wxPython's main loop and for anything else, which has worked well for me whether I've been using Twisted or not. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
I have a program that shows a 3d representation of a cell, depending on some data that it receives from some C++. It runs with wx.timer(500), and on wx.EVT_TIMER, it updates the the data, and receives it over the socket. In my program I also want to be able to rotate the 3d representation, and can do so, and all the code works. However, I have a problem in that while the program is updating itself (pretty much all the time unless I tell it not to), it won't detect mouse motion, I'm guessing because it doesn't have time to. Is there any manual way to get a program to check for mouse movement, that way I'd be able to check for mouse movement half way through my updating the data over the socket, and then do the necessary rotations before it finishes updating the data. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Have you tried binding EVT_MOTION(func) to your window? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
stringy wrote: I have a program that shows a 3d representation of a cell, depending on some data that it receives from some C++. It runs with wx.timer(500), and on wx.EVT_TIMER, it updates the the data, and receives it over the socket. It's generally inappropriate to have a GUI program do network communications in the main GUI thread. You should create a worker thread and communicate with it using Queues and possibly the AddPendingEvent() or PostEvent() methods in wx. There should be many easily accessible examples of how to do such things. Post again if you need help finding them. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Peter Hansen wrote: stringy wrote: I have a program that shows a 3d representation of a cell, depending on some data that it receives from some C++. It runs with wx.timer(500), and on wx.EVT_TIMER, it updates the the data, and receives it over the socket. It's generally inappropriate to have a GUI program do network communications in the main GUI thread. You should create a worker thread and communicate with it using Queues and possibly the AddPendingEvent() or PostEvent() methods in wx. There should be many easily accessible examples of how to do such things. Post again if you need help finding them. I'd argue that point; it's certainly inappropriate to do (long-)/blocking/ network communications in a main GUI thread, but that's just the same as any blocking IO. If the main thread is blocked on IO, it can't respond to the user which is Bad. However, instead of building threads (possibly needlessly) and dealing with synchronization issues, I'd argue that the solution is to use a nonblocking network IO package that integrates with the GUI event loop. Something like Twisted is perfect for this task, although it might involve a significant application restructuring for the grandparent poster. Since blocking network IO is generally slow, this should help the grandparent poster -- I am presuming that the program updating itself is an IO-bound, rather than processor-bound process. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:18:58 -0400, Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Hansen wrote: stringy wrote: I have a program that shows a 3d representation of a cell, depending on some data that it receives from some C++. It runs with wx.timer(500), and on wx.EVT_TIMER, it updates the the data, and receives it over the socket. It's generally inappropriate to have a GUI program do network communications in the main GUI thread. You should create a worker thread and communicate with it using Queues and possibly the AddPendingEvent() or PostEvent() methods in wx. There should be many easily accessible examples of how to do such things. Post again if you need help finding them. I'd argue that point; it's certainly inappropriate to do (long-)/blocking/ network communications in a main GUI thread, but that's just the same as any blocking IO. If the main thread is blocked on IO, it can't respond to the user which is Bad. However, instead of building threads (possibly needlessly) and dealing with synchronization issues, I'd argue that the solution is to use a nonblocking network IO package that integrates with the GUI event loop. Something like Twisted is perfect for this task, although it might involve a significant application restructuring for the grandparent poster. Since blocking network IO is generally slow, this should help the grandparent poster -- I am presuming that the program updating itself is an IO-bound, rather than processor-bound process. In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Jp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Jp Calderone wrote: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from getting attention. But I agree with your position for other toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? Huh? It's pretty normal, the gui blocks while waiting for events from the window system. I expect that Qt and Tk work the same way. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need to interrupt to check for mouse movement
Quoth Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]: | Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | In the particular case of wxWidgets, it turns out that the *GUI* | blocks for long periods of time, preventing the *network* from | getting attention. But I agree with your position for other | toolkits, such as Gtk, Qt, or Tk. | | Wow, I'm not familiar with wxWidgets; how's that work? | | Huh? It's pretty normal, the gui blocks while waiting for events | from the window system. I expect that Qt and Tk work the same way. In fact anything works that way, that being the nature of I/O. But usually there's a way to add your own I/O source to be dispatched along with the UI events -- the toolkit will for example use select() to wait for X11 socket I/O, so it can also respond to incoming data on another socket, provided along with a callback function by the application. Am I hearing that wxWindows or other popular toolkits don't provide any such feature, and need multiple threads for this reason? Donn Cave, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
