Re: Folk etymology, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 June 2018 19:24:14 Jim Lee wrote:

> On 06/18/2018 04:09 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > Peter Otten wrote:
> >> "folk etymology" would be the retrofitting of the exotic "Schottky"
> >> into two familiar words "shot" and "key". Sometimes the writer
> >> assumes that these words are somehow related to the labeled object.
> >
> > Well, there is a thing called "shot noise", and you can probaby
> > get it from a Shottky diode under some circumstances, but
> > Shottky is definitely someone's name. (Walter H. Shottky, to
> > be specific.)
>
> FWIW, we used to call them barrier diodes, or sometimes hot carrier
> diodes, until the name "Schottky" became commonplace in, what, the mid
> 80s or so?
>
> -Jim

More like the early 70's. I spent from 70, to late 77 keeping one of 
Nebraska ETV's 3rd of a megawatt transmitters on the air. One of the 
support engineers brought up a 10 pack of the first HP schottkey diodes 
up and made the claim that it was a 98% efficient rectifier at 500 mhz.  
So I removed the twin vacuum tube diode (a 6AL5) that wasn't capable of 
delivering a volt of video from a monitoring test point into astd 75 ohm 
load, and soldered one of this new HP diodes in its place.  I had to 
lift it back out of its mount nearly 3/4" just to get it down to one 
volt.  It didn't take me long to modify the other 5.
 
-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
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Re: Folk etymology, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/18/2018 04:09 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:

Peter Otten wrote:
"folk etymology" would be the retrofitting of the exotic "Schottky" 
into two familiar words "shot" and "key". Sometimes the writer 
assumes that these words are somehow related to the labeled object.


Well, there is a thing called "shot noise", and you can probaby
get it from a Shottky diode under some circumstances, but
Shottky is definitely someone's name. (Walter H. Shottky, to
be specific.)

FWIW, we used to call them barrier diodes, or sometimes hot carrier 
diodes, until the name "Schottky" became commonplace in, what, the mid 
80s or so?


-Jim

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Re: Folk etymology, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Gregory Ewing]

Peter Otten wrote:
"folk etymology" would be the retrofitting of the exotic "Schottky" into two 
familiar words "shot" and "key". Sometimes the writer assumes that these 
words are somehow related to the labeled object.


Well, there is a thing called "shot noise", and you can probaby
get it from a Shottky diode under some circumstances, but
Shottky is definitely someone's name. (Walter H. Shottky, to
be specific.)

--
Greg
--
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 June 2018 11:45:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

> Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
> > Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi
> >> interfaces is the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced
> >> a shotkey(sp) diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price
> >> diff and changed it to
> >
> > Is this a case of  ?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky
>
> I'm missing why the claim that management changed the spec on a diode
> from Schottky to conventional would be folk etymology?  Or why Gene
> being unsure of his spelling would?  What does any of this have to do
> with etymology, folk or genuine?

Its this list, Joe. Anything as long as there is a provable effect, is 
fair game here, and has been for a goodly number of years.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
-- 
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Re: Folk etymology, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:

> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2018-06-18, Joe Pfeiffer  wrote:
>>> Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
>>>
 Gene Heskett wrote:

> This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces
> is the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp)
> diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it
> to

 Is this a case of  ?

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky
>>>
>>> I'm missing why the claim that management changed the spec on a diode
>>> from Schottky to conventional would be folk etymology?  Or why Gene
>>> being unsure of his spelling would?  What does any of this have to do
>>> with etymology, folk or genuine?
>> 
>> I was wondering the same thing...
>
> "folk etymology" would be the retrofitting of the exotic "Schottky" into two 
> familiar words "shot" and "key". Sometimes the writer assumes that these 
> words are somehow related to the labeled object.

This would only be a folk etymology if (1) the spelling were really
"shotkey", and (2) someone thought it was because of some tortured
derivation from "shot" and "key".

Most of the best-known examples in English are backronyms like Port
Outboard Starboard Home and For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

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Folk etymology, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Peter Otten]

Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2018-06-18, Joe Pfeiffer  wrote:
>> Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
>>
>>> Gene Heskett wrote:
>>>
 This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces
 is the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp)
 diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it
 to
>>>
>>> Is this a case of  ?
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky
>>
>> I'm missing why the claim that management changed the spec on a diode
>> from Schottky to conventional would be folk etymology?  Or why Gene
>> being unsure of his spelling would?  What does any of this have to do
>> with etymology, folk or genuine?
> 
> I was wondering the same thing...

"folk etymology" would be the retrofitting of the exotic "Schottky" into two 
familiar words "shot" and "key". Sometimes the writer assumes that these 
words are somehow related to the labeled object.

The best known example in German is

Maulwurf ("mouth throw" for mole)

leading to the (false) idea that moles use their mouth to build mole hills.




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Re: Python list vs google group

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-06-18, Joe Pfeiffer  wrote:
> Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:
>
>> Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>>> This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces is
>>> the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp)
>>> diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it to
>>
>> Is this a case of  ?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky
>
> I'm missing why the claim that management changed the spec on a diode
> from Schottky to conventional would be folk etymology?  Or why Gene
> being unsure of his spelling would?  What does any of this have to do
> with etymology, folk or genuine?

I was wondering the same thing...

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Half a mind is a
  at   terrible thing to waste!
  gmail.com

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> writes:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces is
>> the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp)
>> diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it to
>
> Is this a case of  ?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky

I'm missing why the claim that management changed the spec on a diode
from Schottky to conventional would be folk etymology?  Or why Gene
being unsure of his spelling would?  What does any of this have to do
with etymology, folk or genuine?
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Re: Technical altitude, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:59:58 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> Other than that I find it hard to believe that a "bean counter" can
> change a technical spec. He may put pressure on the designer, but when
> the designer gives in he's still responsible for the resulting technical
> problems.

Surely it depends on how dysfunctional the organisation is, and whether 
or not they are answerable to independent standards. Ultimately, the 
engineers answer to management, and if management treat them as drones 
that have to do what they're told instead of experts that can make 
decisions for themselves, anything is possible.

When you hear of technical disasters like tens of thousands of cars 
having to be recalled, or laptop batteries catching fire, or similar 
problems, we almost never find out whether this was an unavoidable 
failure, a technical mistake by the designers, or a case of managerial 
interference.

Fortunately I've avoided having to work in that sort of environment, but 
my wife used to work in the entertainment industry where that sort of 
managerial interference is the rule, not the exception.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson

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Technical altitude, was Re: Python list vs google group

[Peter Otten]

Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 18 June 2018 09:16:10 Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi
>> > interfaces is the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced
>> > a shotkey(sp) diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff
>> > and changed it to
>>
>> Is this a case of  ?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky
> 
> So its spelled with two t's.
> 
> Concentrating on my spelling mistake, you probably missed my point
> entirely. But then you are not a CET either so the rest of my
> explanation may not have been in reach as it passed by at a pretty good
> technical altitude.  Sigh...
> 

I'm doomed. Right?

:)

Other than that I find it hard to believe that a "bean counter" can change a 
technical spec. He may put pressure on the designer, but when the designer 
gives in he's still responsible for the resulting technical problems.

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 June 2018 09:16:10 Peter Otten wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi
> > interfaces is the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced
> > a shotkey(sp) diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff
> > and changed it to
>
> Is this a case of  ?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky

So its spelled with two t's.

Concentrating on my spelling mistake, you probably missed my point 
entirely. But then you are not a CET either so the rest of my 
explanation may not have been in reach as it passed by at a pretty good 
technical altitude.  Sigh...

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
-- 
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Peter Otten]

Gene Heskett wrote:

> This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces is
> the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp)
> diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it to

Is this a case of  ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_H._Schottky


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Re: Python list vs google group

[Alister via Python-list]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:32:05 -0700, T Berger wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:55:59 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Perhaps quantity is not the important thing here.
> 
> It is the important thing. I'm stuck with a problem and still waiting
> for replies to my email. I've decided to repost my problem here, so
> we'll see whether my hypothesis holds water.
> 
> Tamara

i still beg to differ & agree with Chris. quality is what counts
which would you prefer 100 wrong/contradictory answers or one correct one*


* i accept that even here for any moderately complex question you are 
still likely to get contradictory answers



-- 
Iron Law of Distribution:
Them that has, gets.
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 15 June 2018 23:52:12 Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Jim Lee wrote:
> > It was so long ago that I forgot some of the
> > details, but it boiled down to the TWAIN driver pushing the SCSI bus
> > out of spec.
>
> Clearly you didn't sacrifice enough goats!
>
> https://odetocode.com/blogs/scott/archive/2004/09/22/scsi-is-not-magic
>.aspx
>
> --
> Greg

This biggest single thing wrong with any of those old scsi interfaces is 
the bus's 5 volt isolation diode, the designer speced a shotkey(sp) 
diode, and some damned bean counter saw the price diff and changed it to 
a std si power diode in the BOM on the way to the production line, 
thereby destroying the headroom of the logic 1 signal level by lowering 
the supply voltage to the resistive terms used by nominally .6 volts, 
the diff in the forward drop. Back when you could run over to the shack 
and get a shotkey diode, you could make any of them work like a charm.

The other choice was to find a higher voltage to run the terms on, 5.75 
volts would have been lovely but made of pure unobtainium. But combine 
the si diode, and a psu fading with age and down to 4.85 volts on the 5 
volt line and you were doomed.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Gregory Ewing
 wrote:
> Alister wrote:
>>
>> A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made
>> multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
>>  Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)
>
>
> I was expecting the solution to be a note attached to the
> photocopier saying "Please do not make more than 9 copies
> at a time".

https://xkcd.com/1457/

XKCD is not a work of fiction. It is, at best, a slight exaggeration
of reality. My Dad used to reboot his computer before burning a DVD,
because it seemed to create less failed burns. No explanation was ever
found. (He doesn't make DVD backups any more, so the issue has been
dodged.)

ChrisA
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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Gregory Ewing]

Alister wrote:
A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made 
multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
 
Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)


I was expecting the solution to be a note attached to the
photocopier saying "Please do not make more than 9 copies
at a time".

--
Greg
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/16/2018 12:38 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 9:14:13 PM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:

if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
of worked [...]

...that's when the engineers in the Redmond, WA area know it's time to package 
and ship the product!


And in so doing, produce an exponential growth in wasted money and time 
worldwide as countless people struggle to do things that "sort of work".


-Jim

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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Alister via Python-list]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:25:52 -0400, William Ray Wing wrote:

>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:54:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:
>> 
 I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
 the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
 otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
 problem,
 but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner. 
 When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless
 of temperature.
 
 
>>> I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
>>> hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Let me add one more story (true) to the list.  Concerns an old IBM
> mainframe installed in a bank in New York City, that crashed rarely, and
> only night, never during the day.  They called IBM; repair man spent the
> night with it - no crash; same story the next night and the next. 
> Finally on the forth night he left around 10:00 PM to get something to
> eat and some coffee.  Came back to find the computer had crashed.  Spent
> the next night - no crash.  Left the next again for coffee, came back to
> find the computer down.  Obviously it was only crashing when he wasn't
> watching.  Next night he left, but only took the elevator down to the
> ground floor, didn’t go outside.  Computer crashed.  He rebooted,
> restarted the job stream, left the computer room for the same length of
> time, but didn’t leave the floor.  No crash.
> 
> To make a long story short, it was the motor-generator set that ran the
> elevators.  During the day, there was enough constant elevator traffic
> so that the MG set never shut down and even it it did, there was enough
> load elsewhere in the building to make the start-up transient a
> relatively small perturbation.  At night it would time out, shut down,
> and when he called for the elevator late at night, the start-up
> transient was too much for the computer’s power regulators.
> 
> Earlier crashes turned out to be coincident with janitorial staff
> working extra late after special events.
> 
> Bill
> 
My supervisor had a similar issue with a PBX (Telephone system) that 
would cut of callers when the lift was used.

I personally one attended a site to try to identify why an ISDN circuit 
kept randomly resetting.
I had been on the phone with the BT engineer for about 1/2 hr monitoring 
the circuit when it suddenly cut off.

"Was it anything I did" asked the person using the photo copier

A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made 
multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
 
Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)

or if you want a really strange one we used to maintain PBX's for a 
particular Bank.
A common fault report was the earpiece buzzing.
This turned out to be caused by blown halogen light bulbs in a nearby 
display board (i don't know who originally identified that one). working 
on the help desk it was always "fun" trying to convince the user that 
this was the problem, understandably they though we were pulling their 
leg"

 

> 
> 
>> --
>> Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've
>> been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
>> 
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





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Re: Python list vs google group

[Rick Johnson]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 9:14:13 PM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:
> if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
> of worked [...]

...that's when the engineers in the Redmond, WA area know it's time to package 
and ship the product!
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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jun 16, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:54:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:
> 
>>> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
>>> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
>>> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware problem,
>>> but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner.  When
>>> I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless of
>>> temperature.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
>> hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.
> 
> 

Let me add one more story (true) to the list.  Concerns an old IBM mainframe 
installed in a bank in New York City, that crashed rarely, and only night, 
never during the day.  They called IBM; repair man spent the night with it - no 
crash; same story the next night and the next.  Finally on the forth night he 
left around 10:00 PM to get something to eat and some coffee.  Came back to 
find the computer had crashed.  Spent the next night - no crash.  Left the next 
again for coffee, came back to find the computer down.  Obviously it was only 
crashing when he wasn't watching.  Next night he left, but only took the 
elevator down to the ground floor, didn’t go outside.  Computer crashed.  He 
rebooted, restarted the job stream, left the computer room for the same length 
of time, but didn’t leave the floor.  No crash.

To make a long story short, it was the motor-generator set that ran the 
elevators.  During the day, there was enough constant elevator traffic so that 
the MG set never shut down and even it it did, there was enough load elsewhere 
in the building to make the start-up transient a relatively small perturbation. 
 At night it would time out, shut down, and when he called for the elevator 
late at night, the start-up transient was too much for the computer’s power 
regulators.

Earlier crashes turned out to be coincident with janitorial staff working extra 
late after special events.

Bill


> 
> -- 
> Steven D'Aprano
> "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
> it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Paul St George]

On 15/06/2018 17:33, T Berger wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:14:30 PM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 15/06/18 16:47, T Berger wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:


it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
posts from google groups


But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than emailed 
to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be different access 
routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be the case. I replied to 
a post via email, but my reply did not show up on this forum.

Tamara



For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news
reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this
forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical
forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter
anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence




Would you also need to know that the Newsgroup is called 
comp.python.general? I wasted many minutes looking for comp.lang.python.


So, in Thunderbird, File > New > Other Accounts...
News Server name (NNTP): news.gmane.org
Subscribe to: gmane.comp.python.general
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 16 June 2018 12:31:28 Jim Lee wrote:

> On 06/16/2018 08:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> > On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
>  I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver. 
>  If the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in
>  color - otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a
>  hardware problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver
>  for the scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it
>  worked fine regardless of temperature.
> 
>  -Jim
> >
> > That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
> > then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the
> > Windows SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or
> > perhaps indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.
> >
> > Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a
> > software error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than
> > once a hardware document saying something like Feature A was
> > intended to work this way but the hardware doesn't work right to
> > implement it, so the software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So
> > now, if the software doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due
> > to a hardware design issue that was just redefined.
>
> It was a software issue that manifested itself as a hardware failure. 
> However, SCSI was such a temperamental beast to begin with that finger
> pointing usually took as much time as diagnosing the problems.
>
My finger never gets tired of pointing at the bean counter between 
engineering design and the production floor. And there has been a time 
or 3 over the last 70 years when the finger was loaded.
> -Jim



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
-- 
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/16/2018 08:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:

[snip]

I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
regardless of temperature.

-Jim

That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the Windows
SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or perhaps
indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.

Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a software
error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than once a
hardware document saying something like Feature A was intended to work
this way but the hardware doesn't work right to implement it, so the
software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So now, if the software
doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due to a hardware design
issue that was just redefined.


It was a software issue that manifested itself as a hardware failure.  
However, SCSI was such a temperamental beast to begin with that finger 
pointing usually took as much time as diagnosing the problems.


-Jim


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Re: Python list vs google group

[Richard Damon]

On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
> 
> 
> On 06/15/2018 07:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/15/18 9:00 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
  wrote:
> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN
>>
> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.
>
 Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
 images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.

 ChrisA
>>> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
>>> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
>>> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
>>> problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
>>> scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
>>> regardless of temperature.
>>>
>>> -Jim
>> There actually may still have been a hardware issue, likely something
>> marginal in the timing on the cable. (Timing changing with temperature).
>> It would take a detailed look, and a fine reading of specs, to see if
>> the Windows Driver was to spec, and the hardware is marginal (but the
>> Linux driver didn't push the unit to full speed and got around the
>> issue), of if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
>> of worked, especially if things were warm, while the Linux driver did it
>> right.
>>
> You are exactly right.  It was so long ago that I forgot some of the
> details, but it boiled down to the TWAIN driver pushing the SCSI bus out
> of spec.   I remember looking at the bus on a scope, measuring pulse
> widths, and playing with terminator values to try to optimize rise
> times.  I don't believe it used the Windows SCSI driver at all, but
> instead drove the scanner directly (I could be remembering wrong).
> 
> -Jim
> 

That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the Windows
SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or perhaps
indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.

Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a software
error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than once a
hardware document saying something like Feature A was intended to work
this way but the hardware doesn't work right to implement it, so the
software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So now, if the software
doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due to a hardware design
issue that was just redefined.
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Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:54:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:

>> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
>> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
>> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware problem,
>> but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner.  When
>> I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless of
>> temperature.
>>
>>
> I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
> hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.

I'm reminded of the story of the car that would break down whenever the 
owner bought vanilla ice cream, but not any other flavour.

Snopes points out that the story keeps changing (but that's just 
invariable "Chinese Whispers") and describes it as a legend:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cone-of-silence/


Whether or not that specific story is true, the premise is plausible.

There's also the story of Magic/More Magic:

http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html

I don't have a link, but I recall one story about an old Russian computer 
that would crash whenever a woman touched it. Apparently the women were 
wearing nylon stockings that would build up a static charge, and that was 
crashing the computer.

Another example I read about but don't have a link for is a researcher 
who used a genetic algorithm to design some sort of electrical circuit. 
Part of the circuit was open (it was only connected at one end), but when 
the researcher removed the open circuit, the rest of it stopped working.

It turned out that there were some subtle static electrical effects 
caused by the components on the open circuit, and the genetic algorithm 
found them and incorporated them in the design.




-- 
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gregory Ewing]

Jim Lee wrote:
It was so long ago that I forgot some of the 
details, but it boiled down to the TWAIN driver pushing the SCSI bus out 
of spec.


Clearly you didn't sacrifice enough goats!

https://odetocode.com/blogs/scott/archive/2004/09/22/scsi-is-not-magic.aspx

--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/15/2018 07:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/15/18 9:00 PM, Jim Lee wrote:


On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
 wrote:

On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:

My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN


Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.


Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.

ChrisA

I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
regardless of temperature.

-Jim

There actually may still have been a hardware issue, likely something
marginal in the timing on the cable. (Timing changing with temperature).
It would take a detailed look, and a fine reading of specs, to see if
the Windows Driver was to spec, and the hardware is marginal (but the
Linux driver didn't push the unit to full speed and got around the
issue), of if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
of worked, especially if things were warm, while the Linux driver did it
right.

You are exactly right.  It was so long ago that I forgot some of the 
details, but it boiled down to the TWAIN driver pushing the SCSI bus out 
of spec.   I remember looking at the bus on a scope, measuring pulse 
widths, and playing with terminator values to try to optimize rise 
times.  I don't believe it used the Windows SCSI driver at all, but 
instead drove the scanner directly (I could be remembering wrong).


-Jim

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Michael Torrie]

On 06/15/2018 09:28 AM, T Berger wrote:
> I'm suspecting that posting to python google groups (this site) gets
> more responses than mailing to the python list. Am I correct? Also,
> contrary to what I read on the python list information sheet, what
> shows up in this forum does not match what comes into my inbox. I
> started a post here and then replied to a post from my inbox. That
> reply does not show up in this forum.

Actually it does show up. The problem is that Gmail silently throws away
your own post when it gets emailed back to you by the listserv.  But
your messages still get through to the list.  The only way I've figure
out to get around this bug in Gmail is to post from a different SMTP
server than the normal GMail one.  But most people don't have a
different SMTP server to use, and also there are issues with DKIM and
other supposed anti-spam features.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Richard Damon]

On 6/15/18 9:00 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
>>  wrote:
>>> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
 My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN

>>> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.
>>>
>> Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
>> images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.
>>
>> ChrisA
> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
> problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
> scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
> regardless of temperature.
>
> -Jim

There actually may still have been a hardware issue, likely something
marginal in the timing on the cable. (Timing changing with temperature).
It would take a detailed look, and a fine reading of specs, to see if
the Windows Driver was to spec, and the hardware is marginal (but the
Linux driver didn't push the unit to full speed and got around the
issue), of if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
of worked, especially if things were warm, while the Linux driver did it
right.

-- 
Richard Damon

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:
>
>
> On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:

 My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN

>>> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.
>>>
>> Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
>> images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If the
> room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color - otherwise,
> only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware problem, but then
> someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner.  When I moved the
> scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless of temperature.
>

I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.

ChrisA
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gregory Ewing]

Rich Shepard wrote:
Most of us do not reply if we have insufficient knowledge to 
offer a usable response. Saves bandwidth and electrons.


Also avoids a lot of noise. Imagine if everyone who doesn't
know the answer to a question posted "I don't know" as a
response. It would drown out all the useful replies!

--
Greg
--
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
 wrote:

On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:

My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN


Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.


Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.

ChrisA
I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If the 
room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color - 
otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware problem, 
but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner.  When I 
moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless of temperature.


-Jim
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
 wrote:
> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>>
>> My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN
>>
>
> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.
>

Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.

ChrisA
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Rob Gaddi
 wrote:
> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Rich Shepard 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Larry Martell wrote:
>>>
> Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent.


 I thought it was Made Up Acronym
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry,
>>>
>>>Could be; depends on the context.
>>
>>
>> My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN
>>
>
> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.

YAML is good too. As is YACC. But TWAIN is the best.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Rob Gaddi]

On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Rich Shepard  wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Larry Martell wrote:


Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent.


I thought it was Made Up Acronym



Larry,

   Could be; depends on the context.


My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN



Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.

--
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.
--
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Rich Shepard  wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Larry Martell wrote:
>
>>>Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent.
>>
>> I thought it was Made Up Acronym
>
>
> Larry,
>
>   Could be; depends on the context.

My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Larry Martell wrote:


   Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent.

I thought it was Made Up Acronym


Larry,

  Could be; depends on the context.

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM Rich Shepard 
wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:
>
> > Please define YMMV, MUA.
>
>Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent.


I thought it was Made Up Acronym

>
>
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:


Please define YMMV, MUA.


  Oh, ... MUA == Mail User Agent. This is the client we use to read and
write e-mail messages. Other mail-related abbreviations are MTA (Mail
Transfer Agent, used to sort incoming messages to subject-related files),
MTA (Mail Transport Agent, such as postfix, exim, and qmail which sends and
receives messages).

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[MRAB]

On 2018-06-15 17:40, T Berger wrote:

Hi Rich,

Please define YMMV, MUA.


YMMVYour Mileage May Vary
MUA Mail User Agent (email program)
--
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:


Please define YMMV, MUA.


Tamara,

  Your Milage May Vary.

  Here's a list when you have the time and inclination:
.

Best regards,

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, C W wrote:


I think someone would have at least shouted if it was too trivial or
off-topic, right?


  Nope. Most of us do not reply if we have insufficient knowledge to offer a
usable response. Saves bandwidth and electrons. When you get no replies it
usually indicates no one knows how to help. Happens quite a bit.

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:49 PM T Berger  wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:32:17 PM UTC-4, T Berger wrote:
> > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:55:59 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > Perhaps quantity is not the important thing here.
> >
> > It is the important thing. I'm stuck with a problem and still waiting
> for replies to my email. I've decided to repost my problem here, so we'll
> see whether my hypothesis holds water.
> >
> > Tamara
>
> If anyone wants to take a stab at my problem, its subject line is "Flask
> Failure."


There is a flask ML

http://flask.pocoo.org/mailinglist/


>
-- 
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:


To do this, I will have to research what you mean by "a (semi-)decent
email client/news reader," and "point it at news.gmane.org." I'm a little
unused to web-related lingo. Then I'll have to root around in gmane.org to
see how it works. This is not to say that I might not try this route, only
that it will take a bit of time and effort. I just set some filters on the
incoming python email, and will see how it works first. But thanks for
your thrice-proffered suggestion.


  What OS do you run? I know folks with gmail accounts who follow newsgroups
using firefox, chromium, and thunderbird. I use alpine (which is text-based
since e-mail messages are text it's a perfect fit) on Slackware linux.

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:


If anyone wants to take a stab at my problem, its subject line is "Flask
Failure."


Tamara,

  I saw that earlier this morning -- on the mail list. As I know nothing
about flask I deleted it without reading.

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:32:17 PM UTC-4, T Berger wrote:
> On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:55:59 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Perhaps quantity is not the important thing here.
> 
> It is the important thing. I'm stuck with a problem and still waiting for 
> replies to my email. I've decided to repost my problem here, so we'll see 
> whether my hypothesis holds water.
> 
> Tamara

If anyone wants to take a stab at my problem, its subject line is "Flask 
Failure."

Thanks,

Tamara 
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

Hi Rich,

Please define YMMV, MUA.

Thanks,

Tamara
-- 
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Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:14:30 PM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news 
> reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this 
> forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical 
> forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter 
> anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.

To do this, I will have to research what you mean by "a (semi-)decent email 
client/news reader," and "point it at news.gmane.org." I'm a little unused to 
web-related lingo. Then I'll have to root around in gmane.org to see how it 
works. This is not to say that I might not try this route, only that it will 
take a bit of time and effort. I just set some filters on the incoming python 
email, and will see how it works first. But thanks for your thrice-proffered 
suggestion.

Tamara
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[C W]

I recently posted two questions, but never got any replies. I am still
wondering if it was ever posted, or maybe the question was too trivial?

I think someone would have at least shouted if it was too trivial or
off-topic, right?

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lawrence 
wrote:

> On 15/06/18 16:47, T Berger wrote:
>
>> On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:
>>
>> it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
>>> as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
>>> posts from google groups
>>>
>>
>> But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than
>> emailed to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be
>> different access routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be
>> the case. I replied to a post via email, but my reply did not show up on
>> this forum.
>>
>> Tamara
>>
>>
> For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news
> reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this
> forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical
> forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter
> anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.
>
> --
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:14:30 PM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 15/06/18 16:47, T Berger wrote:
> > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:
> > 
> >> it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
> >> as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
> >> posts from google groups
> > 
> > But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than 
> > emailed to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be 
> > different access routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be 
> > the case. I replied to a post via email, but my reply did not show up on 
> > this forum.
> > 
> > Tamara
> > 
> 
> For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news 
> reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this 
> forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical 
> forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter 
> anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:55:59 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Perhaps quantity is not the important thing here.

It is the important thing. I'm stuck with a problem and still waiting for 
replies to my email. I've decided to repost my problem here, so we'll see 
whether my hypothesis holds water.

Tamara
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Mark Lawrence]

On 15/06/18 16:47, T Berger wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:


it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
posts from google groups


But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than emailed 
to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be different access 
routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be the case. I replied to 
a post via email, but my reply did not show up on this forum.

Tamara



For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news 
reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this 
forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical 
forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter 
anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, T Berger wrote:


I'm suspecting that posting to python google groups (this site) gets more
responses than mailing to the python list. Am I correct? Also, contrary to
what I read on the python list information sheet, what shows up in this
forum does not match what comes into my inbox. I started a post here and
then replied to a post from my inbox. That reply does not show up in this
forum.


Tamara,

  That's not been my experiences. I subscribe to a few mail lists that are
mirrored on googlegroups.com. My preference is to have messages pushed to me
by the mail list manager rather than my using the browser to go to
googlegroups and pull threads. YMMV.

  Anyway, I've not had any threads, including ones I start, not appear in my
mail reader. I've not had a response posted to google groups that did not
also appear in my mailbox. Perhaps your experience has something to do with
your MUA.

Regards,

Rich
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 1:47 AM, T Berger  wrote:
> On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:
>
>> it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
>> as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
>> posts from google groups
>
> But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than 
> emailed to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be 
> different access routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be the 
> case. I replied to a post via email, but my reply did not show up on this 
> forum.
>

Is "more replies" your best criterion? I posted something to a much
smaller mailing list and got several HUNDRED replies. In fact, that's
happened to me multiple times, with multiple different lists. Perhaps
quantity is not the important thing here.

ChrisA
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:

> it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
> as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all 
> posts from google groups

But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than emailed 
to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be different access 
routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be the case. I replied to 
a post via email, but my reply did not show up on this forum.

Tamara
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Alister via Python-list]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 08:28:38 -0700, T Berger wrote:

> I'm suspecting that posting to python google groups (this site) gets
> more responses than mailing to the python list. Am I correct? Also,
> contrary to what I read on the python list information sheet, what shows
> up in this forum does not match what comes into my inbox. I started a
> post here and then replied to a post from my inbox. That reply does not
> show up in this forum.
> 
> Tamara

it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all 
posts from google groups



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Python list vs google group

[T Berger]

I'm suspecting that posting to python google groups (this site) gets more 
responses than mailing to the python list. Am I correct? Also, contrary to what 
I read on the python list information sheet, what shows up in this forum does 
not match what comes into my inbox. I started a post here and then replied to a 
post from my inbox. That reply does not show up in this forum. 

Tamara
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list