On 2014-05-17 13:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 09:57:06 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
On 2014-05-17 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing
a work into the public
On 2014-05-17 15:15, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 10:29:00 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
One can state many things, but that doesn't mean they have legal effect.
The US Code has provisions for how works become copyrighted
automatically, how they leave copyright automatically at the en
On Sat, 17 May 2014 10:29:00 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
> One can state many things, but that doesn't mean they have legal effect.
> The US Code has provisions for how works become copyrighted
> automatically, how they leave copyright automatically at the end of
> specific time periods, how some wo
On Sat, 17 May 2014 09:57:06 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2014-05-17 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing
>>> a work into the public domain". The copyright holder ca
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Robert Kern wrote:
> > There is such a thing as the public domain in the US, and there are works in
> > it, but there isn't really such a thing as "placing a work" there
> > voluntarily, as Grant says. A work either is or isn't in the pub
On 2014-05-17 05:19, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Steven D'Aprano :
On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing
a work into the public domain". The copyright holder can transfer
ownershipt to soembody else, but there
On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Robert Kern wrote:
> There is such a thing as the public domain in the US, and there are works in
> it, but there isn't really such a thing as "placing a work" there
> voluntarily, as Grant says. A work either is or isn't in the public domain.
> The author has no c
On 2014-05-17 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing a
work into the public domain". The copyright holder can transfer
ownershipt to soembody else, but there is no "public doma
On 17/05/2014 05:19, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
The sole copyright holder can
simply state: "this work is in the Public Domain," or: "all rights
relinquished," or some such. Ultimately, everything is decided by the
courts, of course.
For examples see all the Python PEPs.
--
My fellow Pythonistas,
Steven D'Aprano :
> On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing
>> a work into the public domain". The copyright holder can transfer
>> ownershipt to soembody else, but there is no "public domain" to which
>> o
On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing a
> work into the public domain". The copyright holder can transfer
> ownershipt to soembody else, but there is no "public domain" to which
> ownership can be trasferre
On 2014-05-14, alister wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2014 10:08:57 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> With the current system, all of us here are technically violating
>>> copyright every time we reply to an email and quote more than a small
Le vendredi 16 mai 2014 13:50:47 UTC+2, Antoine Pitrou a écrit :
> Terry Reedy udel.edu> writes:
>
> >
>
> > On 5/13/2014 8:53 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> > > On 05/13/2014 05:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> > >> On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >>> Beca
Terry Reedy udel.edu> writes:
>
> On 5/13/2014 8:53 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > On 05/13/2014 05:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> >>
> >>> Because Python 3 presents stdin and stdout as text streams however, it
> >>> makes them more difficul
On 5/13/2014 8:53 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 05/13/2014 05:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
Because Python 3 presents stdin and stdout as text streams however, it
makes them more difficult to use with binary data, which is why Armin
sets up all
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Robin Becker wrote:
> Doesn't this issue also come up wherever bytes are being read ie in sockets,
> pipe file handles etc? Some sources may have well defined encodings and so
> allow use of unicode strings but surely not all. I imagine all of the
> problems associ
On 13/05/2014 17:08, Ian Kelly wrote:
.
And since it's so simple, it shouldn't be hard to see that the use of
the shutil module has nothing to do with the Unicode woes here. The
crux of the issue is that a general-purpose command like cat typically
can't know the encoding of its input a
On May 13, 2014 6:10 PM, "Chris Angelico" wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
> > With the current system, all of us here are technically violating
> > copyright every time we reply to an email and quote more than a small
> > percentage of it.
>
> Oh wow... so whe
On 05/13/2014 09:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
ASCII *is* all I need.
You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith 2014...
I know some people use (c) instead, but that actually has no legal
standing. (Not that any reaso
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:42 PM, alister
wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2014 10:08:57 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> With the current system, all of us here are technically violating
>>> copyright every time we reply to an email and quot
On Wed, 14 May 2014 10:08:57 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> With the current system, all of us here are technically violating
>> copyright every time we reply to an email and quote more than a small
>> percentage of it.
>
> Oh wow... s
On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:19 AM, alister
> wrote:
>> I am only an amateur python coder which is why I asked if I am missing
>> something
>>
>> I could not see any reason to be using the shutil module if all that
>> the programm is doing is op
Le mardi 13 mai 2014 10:08:45 UTC+2, Johannes Bauer a écrit :
> On 13.05.2014 03:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>
>
> > Armin Ronacher is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable Python
>
> > developer, and a Python core developer. He might be wrong, but he's not
>
> > *obviously* wrong.
>
On 05/13/2014 05:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
Because Python 3 presents stdin and stdout as text streams however, it
makes them more difficult to use with binary data, which is why Armin
sets up all that extra code to make sure his file obje
On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:42 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Because Python 3 presents stdin and stdout as text streams however, it
> makes them more difficult to use with binary data, which is why Armin
> sets up all that extra code to make sure his file objects are binary.
What surprises me is how ha
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> With the current system, all of us here are technically violating
> copyright every time we reply to an email and quote more than a small
> percentage of it.
Oh wow... so when someone quotes heaps of text without trimming, and
adding blank
On Tue, 13 May 2014 14:42:51 +, alister wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 13:51:20 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2014-05-13, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>>>
ASCII *is* all I need.
>>>
>>> You've never needed to copyright something?
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:19 AM, alister
wrote:
> I am only an amateur python coder which is why I asked if I am missing
> something
>
> I could not see any reason to be using the shutil module if all that the
> programm is doing is opening a file, reading it & then printing it.
>
> is it python t
On 2014-05-13, alister wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 13:51:20 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2014-05-13, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>>>
ASCII *is* all I need.
>>>
>>> You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith
On Tue, 13 May 2014 13:51:20 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-05-13, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>>> ASCII *is* all I need.
>>
>> You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith
>> 2014...
>
> Bah. You don't need the
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Come to think of it why have anything other than zeros and ones?
Obligatory: http://xkcd.com/257/
ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:13:47 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> > Or price something in cents? I suppose the days of the 25¢ steak dinner
> > are long gone, but you might need to sell something for 99¢ a pound...
>
>
> $0.99/lb? :)
Dollar
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:38 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Python 2's ambiguity allows me not to answer the tough philosophical
>> questions. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing, but it has its
>> benefits.
>
> It's not a good thing. It means that you have the convenience of
> pretending t
On 2014-05-13, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>> ASCII *is* all I need.
>
> You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith 2014...
Bah. You don't need the little copyright symbol at all. The
statement without the symbol has the
On 2014-05-13, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> (It's always a good day to remind people that the rest of the world
>> exists.)
>
> Ironic that this should come up in a discussion on Unicode, given that
> Unicode's fundamental purpose is to welcome tha
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith 2014...
> I know some people use (c) instead, but that actually has no legal
> standing. (Not that any reasonable judge would invalidate a copyright
> based on a technicalit
On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> ASCII *is* all I need.
You've never needed to copyright something? Copyright © Roy Smith 2014...
I know some people use (c) instead, but that actually has no legal
standing. (Not that any reasonable judge would invalidate a copyright
based
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 13/05/2014 09:38, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's not a good thing. It means that you have the convenience of
>> pretending there's no problem, which means you don't notice trouble
>> until something happens... and then, in all probab
On 13/05/2014 09:38, Chris Angelico wrote:
It's not a good thing. It means that you have the convenience of
pretending there's no problem, which means you don't notice trouble
until something happens... and then, in all probability, your app is
in production and you have no idea why stuff went w
In article ,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > (It's always a good day to remind people that the rest of the world
> > exists.)
>
> Ironic that this should come up in a discussion on Unicode, given that
> Unicode's fundamental purpose is to welcome
On Tue, 13 May 2014 01:18:35 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 17:47:48 +, alister wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>
>>> This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
>>> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicod
Johannes Bauer :
> The only people who are angered by this now is people who always
> treated encodings sloppily and it "just worked". Well, there's a good
> chance it has worked by pure chance so far. It's a good thing that
> Python does this now more strictly as it gives developers *guarantees*
On 13.05.2014 10:25, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Based on my background (network and system programming), I'm a bit
> suspicious of strings, that is, text. For example, is the stuff that
> goes to syslog bytes or text? Does an XML file contain bytes or
> (encoded) text? The answers are not obvious to
On Tue, 13 May 2014 12:06:50 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> These are problems that Unicode can't solve.
>
> I actually think the problem has little to do with Unicode. Text is an
> abstract data type just like any class. If I have an object (say, a
> subprocess or a dictio
On 13.05.2014 10:38, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Python 2's ambiguity allows me not to answer the tough philosophical
>> questions. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing, but it has its
>> benefits.
>
> It's not a good thing. It means that you have the convenience of
> pretending there's no p
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> These are problems that Unicode can't solve.
>
> I actually think the problem has little to do with Unicode. Text is an
> abstract data type just like any class. If I have an object (say, a
> subprocess or a dictionary)
Chris Angelico :
> These are problems that Unicode can't solve.
I actually think the problem has little to do with Unicode. Text is an
abstract data type just like any class. If I have an object (say, a
subprocess or a dictionary) in memory, I don't expect the object to have
any existence indepen
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Johannes Bauer :
>
>> Having dealt with the UTF-8 problems on Python2 I can safely say that
>> I never, never ever want to go back to that freaky hell. If I deal
>> with strings, I want to be able to sanely manipulate them and I want
>> to b
Johannes Bauer :
> Having dealt with the UTF-8 problems on Python2 I can safely say that
> I never, never ever want to go back to that freaky hell. If I deal
> with strings, I want to be able to sanely manipulate them and I want
> to be sure that after manipulation they're still valid strings.
> M
On 13.05.2014 03:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Armin Ronacher is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable Python
> developer, and a Python core developer. He might be wrong, but he's not
> *obviously* wrong.
He's correct about file name encodings. Which can be fixed really easily
wihtout messi
Am 13 May 2014 01:18:35 GMT
schrieb Steven D'Aprano :
>
> - have a simple way to write bytes to stdout and stderr.
there is the underlying binary buffer:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.stdin
greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 5/13/14 1:18 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
instead of yelling "LALALALALA America is everything" and
pretending that ASCII, or Latin-1, or something, is all you need.
... it isn't?
LALALALALALALALALA :))
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:25 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On 13/05/2014 11:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> - have a bytes version of sys.argv (bargv? argvb?) and read
>>>the file names from that;
>>
>>
>> argb? :)
>
>
> I tried and
On 13/05/2014 11:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
- have a bytes version of sys.argv (bargv? argvb?) and read
the file names from that;
argb? :)
I tried and failed to come up with an "argy bargy" joke here so decided
to go for a meta-
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> (It's always a good day to remind people that the rest of the world
> exists.)
Ironic that this should come up in a discussion on Unicode, given that
Unicode's fundamental purpose is to welcome that whole rest of the
world instead of yelling "L
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 11:09:06 AM UTC+5:30, Mark H. Harris wrote:
> On 5/13/14 12:10 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> > I think the most helpful way forward is to accept two things:
> > a. Unicode is a headache
> > b. No-unicode is a non-option
>
>
> QOTW(so far...)
I said that getting unicode
Gene Heskett writes:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2014 01:39:06 Mark H Harris did opine
> > QOTW(so far...)
>
> But its early yet, only Tuesday & its just barely started... :)
Says who? For some of us, Tuesday is approaching sunset.
(It's always a good day to remind people that the rest of the worl
On Tuesday 13 May 2014 01:39:06 Mark H Harris did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On 5/13/14 12:10 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > I think the most helpful way forward is to accept two things:
> > a. Unicode is a headache
> > b. No-unicode is a non-option
>
> QOTW(so far...)
But its early yet, only Tu
On 5/13/14 12:10 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
I think the most helpful way forward is to accept two things:
a. Unicode is a headache
b. No-unicode is a non-option
QOTW(so far...)
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 6:48:35 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 17:47:48 +, alister wrote:
>
> > Surely those example programs are not the pythonoic way to do things or
> > am i missing something?
>
>
>
> Feel free to show us your version of "cat" for Python then.
On 13/05/2014 02:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 17:47:48 +, alister wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
Posted as I thought it wou
On 5/12/14 8:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Unicode is hard, not because Unicode is hard, but because of legacy
problems.
Yes. To put a finer point on that, Unicode (which is only a
specification constantly being improved upon) is harder to implement
when it hasn't been on the design board fr
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Reading Armin's post, I think that all that is needed to simplify his
> Python 3 version is:
>
> - have a bytes version of sys.argv (bargv? argvb?) and read
> the file names from that;
argb? :)
> - have a simple way to write bytes to s
On Mon, 12 May 2014 17:47:48 +, alister wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
>> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
>>
>> Posted as I thought it would make a rather pleasant change
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:31 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Just because his code sucks doesn't mean he's
> wrong about the state of Unicode and UNIX in Python 3.
Uhm... I think wrongness of code is generally fairly indicative of
wrongness of thinking :) If I write a rant about how Python's list
type suc
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 1:42 PM, MRAB wrote:
> How about checking sys.stdin.mode and sys.stdout.mode?
Seems to work, but I notice that the docs only define the mode
attribute for the FileIO class, which sys.stdin and sys.stdout are not
instances of.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py
On 2014-05-12 19:31, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:47 AM, alister
wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
Posted as I thought it would make
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:47 AM, alister
wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
>> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
>>
>> Posted as I thought it would make a rather pleasant change fro
On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> This was *NOT* written by our resident unicode expert
> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
>
> Posted as I thought it would make a rather pleasant change from
> interminable threads about names vs values vs variab
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