On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:49:50 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty weird thing to
* Rhodri James:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:49:50 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
with the best knowledge of the program's environment, is unable to
handle (such as delete) files or folders with paths
* Rhodri James:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
with the best knowledge of the program's environment, is unable to
handle (such as delete) files or folders
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:26:45 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05
* Rhodri James:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
* Rhodri James:
This is a weird attribution style, by the way. I don't think it helps.
That's a pretty weird thing to comment on.
And as far as I can see the comment doesn't make sense except as
Richard Heathfield wrote:
... so I cheerfully installed it on the
user's desktop machine (Windows ME, would you believe), and then set
about configuring the reader, when... ouch! No PDF reader on the
machine. Not even an ancient Adobe version. Oh dear. Program suddenly
rendered completely
Thad Smith thadsm...@acm.org writes:
Richard Heathfield wrote:
... so I cheerfully installed it on the user's desktop machine
(Windows ME, would you believe), and then set about configuring the
reader, when... ouch! No PDF reader on the machine. Not even an
ancient Adobe version. Oh dear.
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote in message
news:hcdlsp$9a...@news.eternal-september.org...
* bartc:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
You use the highly
Alf P. Steinbach a écrit :
(snip)
Microsoft's
own Windows Explorer, the main GUI shell for Windows, which presumably
was made by the best programmers available
Mouarf !!!
+1 JOFY (= Joke Of The Year)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Alf, I kindly urge you to re-read bartc's comments. He does have a good
point and you seem to be avoiding direct answers.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* bartc:
You say elsewhere that you're not specifically teaching Python, but the
text is full of
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
Does that mean that 'print' is still subject to change as of 3.1.1?
Funny that. They removed reduce() when Python moved from 2.6.x to 3.0. They
even removed __cmp__(). Makes me a sad panda.
Is print() subject to change as
* bartc:
python.org seems to be the main site. Google python download and that
is the first hit.
Their windows download seems to be 13MB against the 32MB of activestate,
and the IDE provided seems more advanced that the 'console window' you
have in your tutorial. I'm just asking why your
* Alf P. Steinbach:
* bartc:
python.org seems to be the main site. Google python download and
that is the first hit.
Their windows download seems to be 13MB against the 32MB of
activestate, and the IDE provided seems more advanced that the
'console window' you have in your tutorial. I'm
In article xfwdnvpdb-3mkhtxnz2dnuvz8nvi4...@bt.com,
r...@see.sig.invalid says...
In mpg.255246264331509a989...@news.eternal-september.org, Dann
Corbit wrote:
snip
You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff or the free Adobe stuff.
Agreed. But why should you have to?
As opposed
* bartc:
Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call
the file .py or .pyw; the difference between console and graphical
In mpg.2554d283970cde989...@news.eternal-september.org, Dann Corbit
wrote:
In article xfwdnvpdb-3mkhtxnz2dnuvz8nvi4...@bt.com,
r...@see.sig.invalid says...
In mpg.255246264331509a989...@news.eternal-september.org, Dann
Corbit wrote:
snip
You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff
On Oct 30, 2:07 pm, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* bartc:
Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call
the
* Mensanator:
On Oct 30, 2:07 pm, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* bartc:
Python has a lot of baggage which is OK if that's what's going to be
used, but otherwise is unnecessary confusion: where to put the program
code (typed in live or in a file, or some combination); whether to
In hcfj10$1o...@news.eternal-september.org, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
snip
I'm very very happy that most comments about perceived defects in
the text and in my responses here, have only disagreements over
terminology. I had expected a slew of errors being pointed out,
since I'm new to Python.
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
And no, I didn't do any research on that. If it mattered more (e.g. appearing
as
statement in the text) I'd have done that. The nice thing about Usenet is that
people rush in to correct things. ;-) url:http://xkcd.com/386/
Unfortunately, the idiocy
* alex23:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
And no, I didn't do any research on that. If it mattered more (e.g. appearing as
statement in the text) I'd have done that. The nice thing about Usenet is that
people rush in to correct things. ;-) url:http://xkcd.com/386/
Unfortunately, the
What would be good is if there was a balancing book eg. one specifically
targeting ubuntu, which is gaining popularity as we mail.
Agreed 100%. I opened this thread as I am learning Python, but my
platform is Kubuntu. Of the students in my faculty, about one third
have already moved to Ubuntu
Richard Heathfield wrote:
A man who cannot express what he needs to express /without/ resorting
to .pdf format is computer-illiterate.
What format do you suggest? I have some ideas on what I would have used,
but you seem to love these veiled references that there is a better way, if
the OP
* Martin P. Hellwig:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I
* James Harris:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print.
Sorry, but I think that hiding such concerns is a real disservice.
The
In 7ktsj6f3bciq...@mid.individual.net, osmium wrote:
Richard Heathfield wrote:
A man who cannot express what he needs to express /without/
resorting to .pdf format is computer-illiterate.
What format do you suggest?
Firstly, I want to make clear that I'm not objecting to the OP's use
of
Richard Heathfield wrote:
if the OP had just been smarter.
Er, no, I didn't have that in mind at all.
In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests not smart.
There is a formal disconnect there but possibly you can see how someone
might infer that.
At least I found out
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print.
Sorry, but I think that hiding such concerns is a real
* Richard Heathfield:
The best way is the simplest technology that will do the job properly.
If that truly is PDF, okay, use PDF. But it is hard for me to
envisage circumstances where Web content is best presented in that
way.
Google docs sharing. It made a mess of my *Word* documents. g
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
ActiveState is simplest to install.
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
where apparently ActiveState has no
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
where apparently ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use
the official distribution.
...
ActiveState does have Python 3 installers.
* Benjamin Kaplan:
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
ActiveState is simplest to install.
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt.
versions of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and
where apparently
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print.
Sorry, but I think that hiding
In 7ku6jhf3a23e...@mid.individual.net, osmium wrote:
Richard Heathfield wrote:
if the OP had just been smarter.
Er, no, I didn't have that in mind at all.
In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests not
smart.
I don't see that at all. Babies are illiterate. Nobody
In yiudnvuxceucgxfxnz2dnuvz7thi4...@bt.com, Richard Heathfield
wrote:
In 7ku6jhf3a23e...@mid.individual.net, osmium wrote:
snip
In some cultures, implying that someone is illiterate suggests not
smart.
I don't see that at all. Babies are illiterate. Nobody knows whether
they're smart.
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
There's rather a lot to know about the environment that a program
executes in if one is going to create robust, dependable, generally
usable programs, not just toy examples.
I'd say this was at best an extremely
* bartc:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically
oriented introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was
* Rhodri James:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:05 -, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
There's rather a lot to know about the environment that a program
executes in if one is going to create robust, dependable, generally
usable programs, not just toy examples.
I'd say this was at best
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:05:11 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print.
Sorry, but I
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* Ethan Furman:
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* James Harris:
You get way too deep into Python in places (for a beginner's course in
programming). For example, from now on I’ll always use from
__future__ in any program that uses print.
Sorry, but I
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt. versions
of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and where
apparently
ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use the official
distribution.
I hope
* alex23:
Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
However, given what I've now learned about the current situation wrt. versions
of Python, where Python 3.x is effectively a new language, and where apparently
ActiveState has no installer for that, I'm rewriting to use the official
distribution.
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex for the
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2
(about one third completed, I've not yet settled on a title so it's just
chapter asd):
* Chris Rebert:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex
On 28 Oct, 07:31, Steven D'Aprano
ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
each document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2
(about one
2009/10/28 Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
* Chris Rebert:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on
On 28 Oct, 07:44, Jon Clements jon...@googlemail.com wrote:
On 28 Oct, 07:31, Steven D'Aprano
ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
each document,
In hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
snip
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically
oriented introductory book on programming, namely Python.
snip
I don't know whether this will ever become an actual book. I hope
so!
snip
So I
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a good idea to teach programming with a
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a good idea to teach
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the following to say:
I think it is not a
2009/10/28 Martin P. Hellwig martin.hell...@dcuktec.org
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write --
I know
that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions,
On 28 Oct, 08:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the
Just to fuel the flame war, consider a million line Python system. It's not
uncommon with C++. :-)
In python, with one-miliion lines of code, you can demonstrate
the existence of God, and then demostrate its non-existance by
changing a single line of code :-)
Ciao
-
FB
--
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write -- I know
that there's a significant chance of communicating misconceptions,
jajajajajajajajajaja
+1 for Francesco
2009/10/28 Francesco Bochicchio bieff...@gmail.com
Just to fuel the flame war, consider a million line Python system. It's
not
uncommon with C++. :-)
In python, with one-miliion lines of code, you can demonstrate
the existence of God, and then
On 28 Okt., 09:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* tm:
On 28 Okt., 07:52, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Looking at your topic '(Python in Windows)', without taking a
glimpse at your actual introduction, I have the
* Jon Clements:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a beginner
has to grapple with, including most importantly tool usage, without which it's
not even possible to get started, but also, very
Inline reply:
On 28 Oct, 11:49, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* Jon Clements:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a
beginner
has to grapple with, including most importantly tool
On Oct 28, 11:57 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* eb303:
On Oct 28, 7:52 am, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
But since I don't know much Python -- I'm *learning* Python as I write
-- I
* Jon Clements:
Inline reply:
On 28 Oct, 11:49, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
* Jon Clements:
On 28 Oct, 08:58, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no wrote:
[snip]
Without reference to an OS you can't address any of the issues that a beginner
has to grapple with, including most
In article hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org, al...@start.no
says...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
Hi.
I may finally have found the perfect language for a practically oriented
introductory book on programming, namely Python.
C++ was way too complex for
In article pan.2009.10.28.07.31...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au,
ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au says...
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:52:17 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in
each document, but here's the public view
* Dann Corbit:
In article hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org, al...@start.no
Unfortunately Google docs doesn't display the nice table of contents in each
document, but here's the public view of ch 1 (complete) and ch 2 (about one
third completed, I've not yet settled on a title so it's
En Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:49:02 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach al...@start.no
escribió:
I suggested ActiveState because I know from earlier that their packages
are easy to install and provide documentation in reasonable Windows CHM
help file format. I did try the IronPython .NET implementation first
In mpg.255244b37d76cfb5989...@news.eternal-september.org, Dann
Corbit wrote:
In article hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org, al...@start.no
says...
snip
here's the public view of ch 1
(complete) and ch 2 (about one third completed, I've not yet
settled on a title so it's just
In mpg.255246264331509a989...@news.eternal-september.org, Dann
Corbit wrote:
snip
You can read PDF with the ghostscript stuff or the free Adobe stuff.
Agreed. But why should you have to?
A man who cannot read .pdf or .ps in today's computer science world
is a crippled man (IMO-YMMV).
A
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