Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[yuriv1127]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:08:15 AM UTC-7, Paul  Moore wrote:
> I'm looking to write a GUI application in Python (to run on Windows, using 
> Python 3.5). The application is just a relatively thin wrapper around a 
> browser - it's presenting an existing web application, just in its own window 
> rather than in a standard browser window. I'm looking for advice on a good 
> GUI toolkit to use.
> 
> I've not done much GUI programming in Python, so I don't have a "preferred 
> toolkit" as such. A bit of Google searching found an embedded browser widget 
> in PyQt, but the examples I tried didn't work - it looks like the QWebView 
> class is deprecated and has been removed in the current version of PyQt. I 
> haven't really found any other examples (there's a "embedding a web page in 
> Tkinter" example I found, but it looks like it's just doing rendering, not 
> embedding a full browser - which I need as the site I want to access uses 
> CSS/JavaScript).
> 
> Is there any good option for this, or would I be better looking elsewhere for 
> a solution? I could probably work out how to knock something up using .NET, 
> or a HTA file, for example, I'm just more comfortable coding in Python.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul

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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Paul Moore]

On 10 October 2017 at 16:07, oliver  wrote:
> Can you elaborate what is not sufficient with Qt's web components?

I can't, sorry. Douglas was resurrecting a thread from a year ago. At
the time I was trying to do a quick proof of concept project and asked
for help on here. The project never really went anywhere, because it
ended up being more complex than I had time for. I don't recall the
details any more.

Paul
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[oliver]

Can you elaborate what is not sufficient with Qt's web components?
http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/topics-web-content.html. This allows for HTML, CSS,
Javascript, via either native C++ Qt, QML, or Python (PyQt) or mixtures of
these 3. That said, I have not yet used Qt`s web engine so I don`t know how
full-featured it is, how robust, etc. I have used PyQt for several years in
production grade project and it is very solid and well documented and easy
to program with and easy to write tests for.
Oliver

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 at 12:59 fpp  wrote:

> Paul Moore  said :
>
> > On 9 October 2017 at 04:25,   wrote:
> >> Did you find out the answer for that?
> >
> > Nothing much beyond the pointer to PyQt (which basically said "a lot
> > of the info on the web is out of date" so I should check the latest
> > docs). I didn't take it much further, though, as it was a hobby
> > project and the learning curve for PyQt (any GUI framework, really)
> > was a bit high for the amount of spare time I had at the time.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Have you looked at CEFpython ?
> It seems to work with all major GUIs (Qt, wx, Tk, gtk..)
> https://github.com/cztomczak/cefpython/tree/master/examples
>
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>
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[fpp]

Paul Moore  said :

> On 9 October 2017 at 04:25,   wrote:
>> Did you find out the answer for that?
> 
> Nothing much beyond the pointer to PyQt (which basically said "a lot
> of the info on the web is out of date" so I should check the latest
> docs). I didn't take it much further, though, as it was a hobby
> project and the learning curve for PyQt (any GUI framework, really)
> was a bit high for the amount of spare time I had at the time.
> 
> Paul

Have you looked at CEFpython ?
It seems to work with all major GUIs (Qt, wx, Tk, gtk..)
https://github.com/cztomczak/cefpython/tree/master/examples

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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Paul Moore]

On 9 October 2017 at 04:25,   wrote:
> Did you find out the answer for that?

Nothing much beyond the pointer to PyQt (which basically said "a lot
of the info on the web is out of date" so I should check the latest
docs). I didn't take it much further, though, as it was a hobby
project and the learning curve for PyQt (any GUI framework, really)
was a bit high for the amount of spare time I had at the time.

Paul
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[douglashf . mec]

Did you find out the answer for that?
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Paul Moore]

On Wednesday, 19 October 2016 13:54:09 UTC+1, Mark Summerfield  wrote:
>
> Since the application is a web app have you looked at:
> https://github.com/r0x0r/pywebview + https://github.com/dddomodossola/remi
> or at
> https://flexx.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
> These basically wrap the platform's web engine so you can write stand alone 
> desktop apps but coding in Python (which gets translated into HTML/JS).

I think that's the opposite of what I want (which is a standalone desktop app 
coded in Python, than embeds an active webpage as a widget in the app). But 
I'll take a closer look - it may be that I'm not clear on what they are doing 
(pretty certain, I've barely any experience with what's available for Python 
outside of command line applications).

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Mark Summerfield]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:08:15 AM UTC+1, Paul  Moore wrote:
> I'm looking to write a GUI application in Python (to run on Windows, using 
> Python 3.5). The application is just a relatively thin wrapper around a 
> browser - it's presenting an existing web application, just in its own window 
> rather than in a standard browser window. I'm looking for advice on a good 
> GUI toolkit to use.
> 
> I've not done much GUI programming in Python, so I don't have a "preferred 
> toolkit" as such. A bit of Google searching found an embedded browser widget 
> in PyQt, but the examples I tried didn't work - it looks like the QWebView 
> class is deprecated and has been removed in the current version of PyQt. I 
> haven't really found any other examples (there's a "embedding a web page in 
> Tkinter" example I found, but it looks like it's just doing rendering, not 
> embedding a full browser - which I need as the site I want to access uses 
> CSS/JavaScript).
> 
> Is there any good option for this, or would I be better looking elsewhere for 
> a solution? I could probably work out how to knock something up using .NET, 
> or a HTA file, for example, I'm just more comfortable coding in Python.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul

Since the application is a web app have you looked at:
https://github.com/r0x0r/pywebview + https://github.com/dddomodossola/remi
or at
https://flexx.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
These basically wrap the platform's web engine so you can write stand alone 
desktop apps but coding in Python (which gets translated into HTML/JS).
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Paul Moore]

On 19 October 2016 at 12:10, Phil Thompson  wrote:
> The Chrome-based QWebEngineView (http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qwebengineview.html) 
> is fully supported by PyQt.

Nice. Thanks for the pointer. Looks like the various bits of advice I
found on the web are a little out of date, is all.

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Vincent Vande Vyvre]

Le 19/10/2016 à 12:07, Paul Moore a écrit :

I'm looking to write a GUI application in Python (to run on Windows, using 
Python 3.5). The application is just a relatively thin wrapper around a browser 
- it's presenting an existing web application, just in its own window rather 
than in a standard browser window. I'm looking for advice on a good GUI toolkit 
to use.

I've not done much GUI programming in Python, so I don't have a "preferred toolkit" as 
such. A bit of Google searching found an embedded browser widget in PyQt, but the examples I tried 
didn't work - it looks like the QWebView class is deprecated and has been removed in the current 
version of PyQt. I haven't really found any other examples (there's a "embedding a web page in 
Tkinter" example I found, but it looks like it's just doing rendering, not embedding a full 
browser - which I need as the site I want to access uses CSS/JavaScript).

Is there any good option for this, or would I be better looking elsewhere for a 
solution? I could probably work out how to knock something up using .NET, or a 
HTA file, for example, I'm just more comfortable coding in Python.

Thanks,
Paul


Hi,

PyQt is a good choice to embed a web viewer in a GUI application.

There's no great differences between Qt4 and Qt5.

An example with PyQt4:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vincent-vandevyvre/oqapy/2.0/files/head:/oqapy-2.0/g9n/

The same with PyQt5:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vincent-vandevyvre/oqapy/3.0/files/head:/g9n/

--
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Oqapy  . python3-exiv2 
 . Qarte 
 . PaQager 

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Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?

[Phil Thompson]

On 19 Oct 2016, at 11:07 am, Paul Moore  wrote:
> 
> I'm looking to write a GUI application in Python (to run on Windows, using 
> Python 3.5). The application is just a relatively thin wrapper around a 
> browser - it's presenting an existing web application, just in its own window 
> rather than in a standard browser window. I'm looking for advice on a good 
> GUI toolkit to use.
> 
> I've not done much GUI programming in Python, so I don't have a "preferred 
> toolkit" as such. A bit of Google searching found an embedded browser widget 
> in PyQt, but the examples I tried didn't work - it looks like the QWebView 
> class is deprecated and has been removed in the current version of PyQt. I 
> haven't really found any other examples (there's a "embedding a web page in 
> Tkinter" example I found, but it looks like it's just doing rendering, not 
> embedding a full browser - which I need as the site I want to access uses 
> CSS/JavaScript).
> 
> Is there any good option for this, or would I be better looking elsewhere for 
> a solution? I could probably work out how to knock something up using .NET, 
> or a HTA file, for example, I'm just more comfortable coding in Python.

The Chrome-based QWebEngineView (http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qwebengineview.html) is 
fully supported by PyQt.

Phil
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Re: Python GUI?

[vidarwilliam]

 I don't like it when you can DD to position things. I don't understand why 
 someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code, and have fun with the 
 debugging. That's the best part about writing a program, in my opinion. I'm 
 against DD with programming, and I'm not sure why.

I don't understand people that also insist on writing code in notepad :) 
GUI design is not for programmers, but for designers. But the first version of 
a GUI can be made by a programmer, so they can make a working application. Then 
the designer can make the GUI work for the end user. Anyone that know about a 
better GUI kit than QT that works well with Python?

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Re: Python GUI?

[Metallicow]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:55:59 PM UTC-5, Eamonn Rea wrote:
 There are a few known GUI toolkits out there, and the main ones from what I 
 can tell are:
 
 
 
 Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited
 
 PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that
 
 PyGTK -- Gnome officially back this I think
 
 wxPython -- Very nice, very professional, approved by Python creator, but 
 alas hard to get started with
 
 
 
 So, what are your personal preferences and why? Why use X over Y?
 
 
 
 I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter. I've 
 messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
 
 
 
 Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding PyQT 
 because it has a DD designer :( )? Is Tkinter really dead? Should I stick 
 with wxPython?
 
 
 
 It's might be similar to the What language to use argument, or the What 
 background to code on argument(I prefer darker backgrounds xD Please don't 
 argue about this though!), in the sense that there is *no* answer, just 
 preference.
 

I prefer wx over qt for these reasons.
Robin works for qt now. *Funny isn't it...*
Basically, To change qt(PySide) you need to pretty much need to be employed by 
qt, not the case with wx(is not a *For profit*, but you can donate.).
In my opinion, in the long run(foreseeing from this point forward)
wx will win, because anybody can create a popular fork. And if it is good 
enough, it might get accepted into the standard dist also.

As far as mature, well, the previous statement shows that he can make money 
doing it also and enjoy doing what he does in his spare time. I believe Guido 
has the privilege of spending half of his time At work and getting paid for 
it. on python.
And Project Phoenix(Py2/3) is still on the way. We'll revisit this question 
next year.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/20/2013 12:34 PM, Metallicow wrote:
 I prefer wx over qt for these reasons. Robin works for qt now. *Funny
 isn't it...* Basically, To change qt(PySide) you need to pretty much
 need to be employed by qt, not the case with wx(is not a *For
 profit*, but you can donate.). In my opinion, in the long
 run(foreseeing from this point forward) wx will win, because anybody
 can create a popular fork. And if it is good enough, it might get
 accepted into the standard dist also.

Qt is not a company. Qt is an open source project owned and sponsored by
Digia and also Nokia, though Nokia's participation will probably be
reduced now that Microsoft has bought Nokia.  Two years ago, at least,
lots of code commits came from outside Nokia.  Now, PySide was
originally a Nokia project when they owned Qt, and I know they did have
contributions from the community.  I don't see any evidence things have
changed.

Your logical reasoning is certainly faulty on one point, however. Why
would you claim wx is forkable but PySide (or even Qt) is not?

Both are completely open source and free software (as in LGPL).


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Re: Python GUI?

[Metallicow]

Sorry about that, nokia is/was.
qt was developed(IIRC) for phones. Someone made money. And a lot of it.
wx is a more or less a free project.
I don't use a phone anymore. If I had a touch screen phone and was a developer, 
I still wouldn't use one. I have my many reasons why...
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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/20/2013 01:58 PM, Metallicow wrote:
 Sorry about that, nokia is/was. qt was developed(IIRC) for phones.
 Someone made money. And a lot of it. wx is a more or less a free
 project. I don't use a phone anymore. If I had a touch screen phone
 and was a developer, I still wouldn't use one. I have my many reasons
 why...

Qt was first available back in 1995 from TrollTech, Inc.  Qt was always
about a good cross-platform UI toolkit that made it possible to develop
rich apps on Windows, Linux, and Mac.  Qt was one of the very first
modern GUI toolkits available on Linux.  I used KDE 1.0, which was based
on Qt back in 1998, long before cell phones with touch screens! In fact
I owe the KDE and Qt developers a debt of gratitude because KDE 1.0 was
really the first desktop that was usable to me as a Windows 95 refuge.
Moved to Linux and haven't looked back.

Qt only recently got touch stuff added, that make it work on phones and
tablets.  And the same touch stuff is going into GTK+, and I'm sure wx
will get it too soon, if they want to stay relevant.

And yes someone made money on Qt back in the day, as the company
TrollTech developed and marketed the toolkit for many years.  Back in
the 90s, a dispute over the open source licensing of the Qt source code
led to the creation of the Gnome project and desktop, using what became
known as the Gtk+ library.  Now, however, Qt is under the LGPL so it's
both free and open source in every way, and we are essentially reaping
the rewards of a very long and expensive development history, all for
free!  Whether it was generosity or desperation, it does not matter.

So I'm guessing you don't use Linux either, since people including Linus
Torvalds have become rich developing Linux.  Most linux development and
even governance is under the auspices of some for-profit companies.  Yet
it flourishes and has remained a free and open OS, thanks to Torvalds'
foresight to choose the GPL as the license for the kernel, which evens
the playing field and regulates the corporate influence.

Sounds to me like you've never used Qt in any of its versions.  I have
used Qt, GTK+, and wx, and they are all fine toolkits.  My current
preference is GTK+.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Robert Kern]

On 2013-09-20 19:34, Metallicow wrote:


I prefer wx over qt for these reasons.
Robin works for qt now. *Funny isn't it...*


Lying about someone's employment is not very funny. Robin does not work for Qt 
or even Digia, the nearest thing to a corporate owner of Qt these days.


  https://www.enthought.com/company/team/devs/


Basically, To change qt(PySide) you need to pretty much need to be employed by 
qt,


This is emphatically incorrect, by your own example. Robin does indeed 
contribute to the PySide project. Both Qt and PySide are both open to and 
*driven by* contributions from the community.


  http://qt-project.org/contribute
  http://qt-project.org/wiki/PySideContributors

--
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco

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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/17/2013 10:19 AM, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
 Sure. Every platform provides its own GUI library (Cocoa on Mac OS X,
 Win32 on Windows). Other programs that want to hook into yours, such
 as screen readers, are familiar with the platform's native GUI
 elements- it knows what a Win32 combo box is, and it knows how to read
 the text inside it.
 
 The other way to make a GUI is to take a blank canvas and draw on it
 yourself. This is more flexible and provides a more consistent
 experience across platforms, but unless you specifically go out of
 your way to provide hooks for other programs to jump in, all they see
 is a bunch of pixels on the screen. In addition, drawing your own
 stuff won't necessarily give you the normal for the operating system
 behavior on other things, like tab behavior. It's possible for
 non-native GUI environments to mimic this behavior (and QT does a
 pretty good job of this), but there's always going to be little things
 that seem a bit off.
 
 The situation is a bit more complicated because QT is the native
 toolkit on KDE, so in that environment, QT will be more correct than
 wx, which would be using GTK if present and plain X11 if it isn't.

I don't think the distinction you're drawing is really all that
important.  Almost all platforms now have accessibility APIs which are a
way better way to go than relying than trying to scrape the information
by peaking into GUI structures that could change.

And on Windows, while the Win32 widget stuff you speak of is a lowest
common denominator, few modern apps use it directly anymore.  MS Office
set the the example early on by creating a new widget set for every
release (using the blank canvas method you describe!).  .Net apps using
winforms use yet another widget set.  They all now use the theming API
to draw their widgets (just like Qt does on Windows), but do their own
even processing, etc.

And it turns out that wxWidget's use of the old win32 widgets means that
some widgets just look plain old and out of place on a new Windows 7 or
8 machine, though MS has tried to make the older widgets work better
with the new theming api:

http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/WxFAQ#Why_does_my_app_take_a_Windows-95-like_look_on_Windows_.3F

My point is, the former method isn't actually the best way to go in the
long run.  The second turns out to work out better, once things like
accessibility frameworks and theming apis are in place.  Perhaps in the
future MS Windows will just provide a drawing method and a theming api.
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Re: Python GUI?

[llanitedave]

On Friday, September 13, 2013 10:31:17 AM UTC-7, Eamonn Rea wrote:
 I don't like the idea of being able to drag and drop anything in the 
 programming world. Outside of that, I use DD programs a lot. I got into GUI 
 programming because I thought that I could get away from them, but I guess 
 not.
 
 
 
 Maybe I'm against them because if I can't code, I don't have anything else to 
 do with my time. If I don't program, the only other thing I have to do is... 
 well... nothing. So, because of this, they're making programming easier... by 
 not coding as much. Oh well, guess coding is dead :(

Why do you feel the need to project your personal issues onto the whole world?  
Nobody is forcing you to use Drag and Drop -- you simply have the option to do 
so, or not.  I don't use it either, but I sure don't fill up with angst just 
because someone else might actually enjoy using it.
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Re: Python GUI?

[rusi]

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:21:49 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

 The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every 
 platform 
 while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls wherever 
 possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but your also 
 more 
 likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my experience from a 
 few 
 years ago.

For someone who is GUI-challenged, can you please expand on that a bit?
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Re: Python GUI?

[Benjamin Kaplan]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:55 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:21:49 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

 The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every 
 platform
 while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls wherever
 possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but your also 
 more
 likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my experience from a 
 few
 years ago.

 For someone who is GUI-challenged, can you please expand on that a bit?
 --

Sure. Every platform provides its own GUI library (Cocoa on Mac OS X,
Win32 on Windows). Other programs that want to hook into yours, such
as screen readers, are familiar with the platform's native GUI
elements- it knows what a Win32 combo box is, and it knows how to read
the text inside it.

The other way to make a GUI is to take a blank canvas and draw on it
yourself. This is more flexible and provides a more consistent
experience across platforms, but unless you specifically go out of
your way to provide hooks for other programs to jump in, all they see
is a bunch of pixels on the screen. In addition, drawing your own
stuff won't necessarily give you the normal for the operating system
behavior on other things, like tab behavior. It's possible for
non-native GUI environments to mimic this behavior (and QT does a
pretty good job of this), but there's always going to be little things
that seem a bit off.

The situation is a bit more complicated because QT is the native
toolkit on KDE, so in that environment, QT will be more correct than
wx, which would be using GTK if present and plain X11 if it isn't.
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Re: Python GUI?

[rusi]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:49:28 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:55 AM, rusi  wrote:
 
  On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:21:49 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
 
 
  The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every 
  platform
  while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls wherever
  possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but your also 
  more
  likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my experience from 
  a few
  years ago.
 
  For someone who is GUI-challenged, can you please expand on that a bit?
  --
 
 Sure. Every platform provides its own GUI library (Cocoa on Mac OS X,
 Win32 on Windows). Other programs that want to hook into yours, such
 as screen readers, are familiar with the platform's native GUI
 elements- it knows what a Win32 combo box is, and it knows how to read
 the text inside it.
 
 
 The other way to make a GUI is to take a blank canvas and draw on it
 yourself. This is more flexible and provides a more consistent
 experience across platforms, but unless you specifically go out of
 your way to provide hooks for other programs to jump in, all they see
 is a bunch of pixels on the screen. In addition, drawing your own
 stuff won't necessarily give you the normal for the operating system
 behavior on other things, like tab behavior. It's possible for
 non-native GUI environments to mimic this behavior (and QT does a
 pretty good job of this), but there's always going to be little things
 that seem a bit off.

Thanks for the explanation. However I am not able to square it up:

You seem to be saying that QT draws on a blank canvas rather than calling out 
to the OS library.
You also seem to be saying that QT (for the most part) Does the Right Thing for 
each platform.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Benjamin Kaplan]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:51 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:49:28 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:55 AM, rusi  wrote:

  On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:21:49 PM UTC+5:30, Benjamin Kaplan 
  wrote:

 
  The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every 
  platform
  while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls wherever
  possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but your 
  also more
  likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my experience from 
  a few
  years ago.
 
  For someone who is GUI-challenged, can you please expand on that a bit?
  --

 Sure. Every platform provides its own GUI library (Cocoa on Mac OS X,
 Win32 on Windows). Other programs that want to hook into yours, such
 as screen readers, are familiar with the platform's native GUI
 elements- it knows what a Win32 combo box is, and it knows how to read
 the text inside it.


 The other way to make a GUI is to take a blank canvas and draw on it
 yourself. This is more flexible and provides a more consistent
 experience across platforms, but unless you specifically go out of
 your way to provide hooks for other programs to jump in, all they see
 is a bunch of pixels on the screen. In addition, drawing your own
 stuff won't necessarily give you the normal for the operating system
 behavior on other things, like tab behavior. It's possible for
 non-native GUI environments to mimic this behavior (and QT does a
 pretty good job of this), but there's always going to be little things
 that seem a bit off.

 Thanks for the explanation. However I am not able to square it up:

 You seem to be saying that QT draws on a blank canvas rather than calling out 
 to the OS library.
 You also seem to be saying that QT (for the most part) Does the Right Thing 
 for each platform.
 --

Right. The QT developers have been working for years to get their
controls to quack like the native ones, even though they aren't
native. They started from controls that looked and worked the same on
all platforms and have been trying to get them to play nicely with the
environment they're running in. wx has been working from the opposite
direction- they started with wrapping the native API and have been
working on getting their API to make programs come out the same even
when using different underlying toolkits. When I used wx about 5 years
ago, some of the layout got messed up when we first ran the program
(developed on Linux/GTK+)  on a Mac because of some differences
between how Carbon and GTK+ draw their controls.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Dave Cook]

On 2013-09-14, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:

 If much of the code for a GUI is boiler-plate, busy-code etc. than I
 would suggest that the framework is not really as efficient as it
 should be.

There are very few Python GUI frameworks as such.  They are almost all
just toolkits, not frameworks in the sense of, say, Django.

Enthought has some interesting GUI framework projects which I haven't
tried:

http://code.enthought.com/projects/

Dabo would be another example.

Dave Cook

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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

On Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:23:03 AM UTC+1, Ben Finney wrote:
 eamonn...@gmail.com writes:
 
 
 
  But is it efficient to use an axe?
 
 
 
 Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or efficiency?
 
 
 
  Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a chainsaw? No.
 
 
 
 Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or sensibility?
 
 
 
  Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be using
 
  axes.
 
 
 
 Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or popularity?
 
 
 
  This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently it's
 
  not possible.
 
 
 
 Who has said that's not possible? If you find using a tool to be both
 
 fun and productive, use it and be happy. If not, use something else.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
  \   “They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
 
   `\to them.” —Mohandas Gandhi |
 
 _o__)  |
 
 Ben Finney

I hadn't thought of it that way! Thanks! :) I suppose it's like saying Why use 
a MacBook when you could use X computer instead? Because I prefer Macs.

Also, this thread hasn't been a troll. I'm completely serious. Why is it when I 
ask things like this people think I'm trolling?? :(
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Re: Python GUI?

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 9:54 PM,  eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Also, this thread hasn't been a troll. I'm completely serious. Why is it when 
 I ask things like this people think I'm trolling?? :(

This is python-list. We're used to duck-typing. If it looks like a
file, we can write to it... if it looks like a troll, we can throw
eggs to try to get it to move away from the rickety bridge, then type
fee; fie; foe; foo to get the eggs back.

Hmm. Am I showing my age, or my nerdiness?

ChrisA
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Re: Python GUI?

[Wolfgang Keller]

 As complexity rises, though, I'd rather just code the creative parts
 of things, and not busy-code, which is what gui code becomes.  Much
 of it is boiler-plate, cut and pasted, etc.

If much of the code for a GUI is boiler-plate, busy-code etc. than I
would suggest that the framework is not really as efficient as it
should be.

In fact that's one of the issues I still have with Python: The language
in general is very efficient, allows to do a lot with very little code.
But all GUI frameworks that I had a look at seem to be not pythonic
at all in this regard. Except for PyGUI maybe, but that's far from being
as extensive as wxPython or PyQt. So for GUI applications, Python
doesn't seem to have any advantage over #§$%! like C++ etc. concerning
code efficiency.

X-( 

Sincerely,

Wolfgang
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Re: Python GUI?

[Kevin Walzer]

On 9/11/13 4:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:

Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited


With the themed widget introduced in Tk 8.5, Tkinter is now a peer to 
the other GUI toolkits in most respects, surpasses them in some (canvas 
widget), and lags behind in just two areas: printing (several 
platform-specific solutions but no cross-platform API) and HTML display 
(a few extensions but no standard widget set).


I've stayed with Tkinter because it fits my brain the best. Old 
complaints about it being ugly or limited no longer hold water.


--Kevin

--
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Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

I don't like the idea of being able to drag and drop anything in the 
programming world. Outside of that, I use DD programs a lot. I got into GUI 
programming because I thought that I could get away from them, but I guess not.

Maybe I'm against them because if I can't code, I don't have anything else to 
do with my time. If I don't program, the only other thing I have to do is... 
well... nothing. So, because of this, they're making programming easier... by 
not coding as much. Oh well, guess coding is dead :(
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Re: Python GUI?

[petmertens]

Enthought.traits !! http://code.enthought.com/projects/traits/
I started using traits a couple of months ago and I really like it.

Traits provides a framework which creates a UI based on your data structures. 
Using some hints you can do anything you want. Just check out their website 
and try the examples.
Even creating an executable out of it is quite easy using bbfreeze.

The negative thing about is that the user group doesn't seem to be very 
large. In other words: if you get stuck on something, there aren't many people 
to help you. This however should not prevent you from using traits.

Just try it and let me know what you think about it.
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:02:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote:
 On 09/12/2013 10:03 AM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
I think your hate of gui designers is about 10 years out of date now, 
 even if you still prefer not to use them.

So, you are recommending not to code as much? :'( That is what depresses me. 
These tools depress me!

I don't understand why people don't want to code. It's time consuming: But 
that's the point!!! It *should* be time consuming. It *should* take time to 
make programs. Speed isn't the main thing, fun is. And these tools are taking 
the fun away.
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Re: Python GUI?

[John Gordon]

In 76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784...@googlegroups.com eamonn...@gmail.com 
writes:

 they're making programming easier... by not coding as much. Oh well,
 guess coding is dead :(

Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.

-- 
John Gordon   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gor...@panix.com  B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies

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Re: Python GUI?

[Joe Junior]

On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon gor...@panix.com wrote:
 In 76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784...@googlegroups.com 
 eamonn...@gmail.com writes:

 they're making programming easier... by not coding as much. Oh well,
 guess coding is dead :(

 Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.


Nor the fun part.

Joe
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that 
way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) debugging.

Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find 
something else to do with my life.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Terry Reedy]

On 9/13/2013 9:27 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:

On 9/11/13 4:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:

Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited


With the themed widget introduced in Tk 8.5, Tkinter is now a peer to
the other GUI toolkits in most respects, surpasses them in some (canvas
widget), and lags behind in just two areas: printing (several
platform-specific solutions but no cross-platform API) and HTML display
(a few extensions but no standard widget set).


I would add the ancient and limited image support, both for input and 
canvas output. Modern SVG output instead of ancient (possibly buggy) 
PostScript would be a real improvement.


Otherwise, I have become more impressed with the text widget as I have 
studied the Idle code. Even that does not use everything. I have not 
looked at the text widget in other guis to compare.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Python GUI?

[Joe Junior]

On 13 September 2013 16:37,  eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that 
 way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) 
 debugging.

 Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find 
 something else to do with my life.
 --
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

lol! You made my day. :-D

Well, you can always ignore any and all graphical design tools if
you're working alone. And write all those Xs and Ys and widths and
heights all day long. None of the mentioned graphical toolkits forces
you to use them.

And if you like debugging, GUI is not the main dish! Try networking
and concurrent programming, loads and loads of fun!

Of course, that's lots of other unnecessary time consuming stuff you
can do. You just have to use your imagination.

Joe
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Re: Python GUI?

[Neil Cerutti]

On 2013-09-13, Joe Junior joe.fbs.jun...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon gor...@panix.com wrote:
 In 76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784...@googlegroups.com
 eamonn...@gmail.com writes:
 they're making programming easier... by not coding as much.
 Oh well, guess coding is dead :(

 Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.

 Nor the fun part.

When John Henry was a little baby,
Sittin' on his daddy's knee,
He Telneted to the server with a tiny bit of code, and said:
Emacs will be the death of me, Lord, Lord!
Emacs will be the death of me.

Well John Henry said to the captain:
Go on and bring your toolkit round,
I'll pound out your GUI with a hundred thousand keystrokes,
And throw that GUI Builder down, Lord, Lord!
I'll throw that GUI Builder down.

Well John Henry hammered on his keyboard,
Till is fingers were bloody stumps,
And the very last words that were entered in his .blog were:
GUI Builders are for chumps, Lord, Lord!
Those GUI builders are for chumps.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:56:15 PM UTC+1, Neil Cerutti wrote:
 On 2013-09-13, Joe Junior joe.fbs.jun...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On 13 September 2013 15:39, John Gordon gor...@panix.com wrote:
 
  In 76784bad-cd6d-48f9-b358-54afb2784...@googlegroups.com
 
  eamonn...@gmail.com writes:
 
  they're making programming easier... by not coding as much.
 
  Oh well, guess coding is dead :(
 
 
 
  Pressing keys on a keyboard was never the hard part of coding.
 
 
 
  Nor the fun part.
 
 
 
 When John Henry was a little baby,
 
 Sittin' on his daddy's knee,
 
 He Telneted to the server with a tiny bit of code, and said:
 
 Emacs will be the death of me, Lord, Lord!
 
 Emacs will be the death of me.
 
 
 
 Well John Henry said to the captain:
 
 Go on and bring your toolkit round,
 
 I'll pound out your GUI with a hundred thousand keystrokes,
 
 And throw that GUI Builder down, Lord, Lord!
 
 I'll throw that GUI Builder down.
 
 
 
 Well John Henry hammered on his keyboard,
 
 Till is fingers were bloody stumps,
 
 And the very last words that were entered in his .blog were:
 
 GUI Builders are for chumps, Lord, Lord!
 
 Those GUI builders are for chumps.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Neil Cerutti

I don't fully understand the meaning of that, but that was a good poem!
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:50:13 PM UTC+1, Joe Junior wrote:
 On 13 September 2013 16:37,  eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded 
  that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) 
  debugging.
 
 
 
  Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find 
  something else to do with my life.
 
  --
 
  https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 
 
 
 lol! You made my day. :-D
 
 
 
 Well, you can always ignore any and all graphical design tools if
 
 you're working alone. And write all those Xs and Ys and widths and
 
 heights all day long. None of the mentioned graphical toolkits forces
 
 you to use them.
 
 
 
 And if you like debugging, GUI is not the main dish! Try networking
 
 and concurrent programming, loads and loads of fun!
 
 
 
 Of course, that's lots of other unnecessary time consuming stuff you
 
 can do. You just have to use your imagination.
 
 
 
 Joe

I was planning on getting into networking, but like I said, thanks to most 
people encouraging less coding, I don't code anymore. Glad I made your day 
though. :-) And unnecessary time consuming stuff -- That's my problem. Is 
*shouldn't* be unnecessary! It should be something that has to be done. That's 
what annoys me!!
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Re: Python GUI?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:37:03 -0700, eamonnrea wrote:

 I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded
 that way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days
 even) debugging.
 
 Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find
 something else to do with my life.

What on earth are you talking about?

If you like cutting trees down with an axe, the existence of chainsaws 
doesn't stop you from still using an axe.

If you don't like GUI app builders, don't use one.



-- 
Steven
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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

But is it efficient to use an axe? Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a 
chainsaw? No. Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be 
using axes. This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently 
it's not possible.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Ben Finney]

eamonn...@gmail.com writes:

 But is it efficient to use an axe?

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or efficiency?

 Is it sensible to use an axe when there is a chainsaw? No.

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or sensibility?

 Eventually, everyone will be using chainsaws, and no one will be using
 axes.

Which criterion is more important to *you* — fun, or popularity?

 This is my point: to have fun and be productive, but apparently it's
 not possible.

Who has said that's not possible? If you find using a tool to be both
fun and productive, use it and be happy. If not, use something else.

-- 
 \   “They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
  `\to them.” —Mohandas Gandhi |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

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Re: Python GUI?

[Dave Angel]

On 13/9/2013 15:37, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:

 I disagree with you. It's not hard, and I apologise if its ever sounded that 
 way, but it is the fun part for me. I love spending hours(days even) 
 debugging.

 Well, thanks all for depressing me. Time to give up programming and find 
 something else to do with my life.

I expect that this thread has all been a troll, but on the off chance
that I'm wrong...

I spent 40+ years programming for various companies, and the only GUI
programs I wrote were for my personal use.  Many times I worked on
processors that weren't even in existence yet, and wrote my own tools to
deal with them.  Other times, there were tools I didn't like, and I
wrote my own to replace them.  One example of that is the keypunch.
Another is paper tape punch.  I was really glad to stop dealing with
either of those.

Still other times, tools were great, and I used them with pleasure.  If
the tool was flexible, I extended it.  And if it was limited, I
replaced it, or found a replacement.

Many times I've chosen a particular approach to solving a problem mainly
because it was something I hadn't done before.  On one project, I wrote
code whose job was to generate about 40,000 lines of C++ code that I
didn't feel like typing in, and maintaining afterward.  The data that
described what those lines should look like was under the control of
another (very large) company, and they could change it any time they
liked.  Most changes just worked.

If you seriously can't find anything interesting to do in software, and
tools to do it with, then maybe you should take up fishing.  With a
bamboo pole and a piece of string.

-- 
DaveA


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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/13/2013 12:23 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:02:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie
 wrote:
 On 09/12/2013 10:03 AM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote: I think your
 hate of gui designers is about 10 years out of date now, even if
 you still prefer not to use them.
 
 So, you are recommending not to code as much? :'( That is what
 depresses me. These tools depress me!

And some people think that automatic transmissions are depressing.  To
each his own.

 I don't understand why people don't want to code. It's time
 consuming: But that's the point!!! It *should* be time consuming. It
 *should* take time to make programs. Speed isn't the main thing, fun
 is. And these tools are taking the fun away.

And nothing in Gtk, Qt, Tk, wx, or any other modern toolkit prevents you
from declaratively creating your GUI.  And for small programs there's
nothing wrong with coding the gui by hand (and in fact I recommend it).

As complexity rises, though, I'd rather just code the creative parts of
things, and not busy-code, which is what gui code becomes.  Much of it
is boiler-plate, cut and pasted, etc.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Dave Cook]

On 2013-09-12, Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Not me.  wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for me.  Does it
 still use event numbers that you define?  Shudder.

You don't have to define IDs explicitly.  That's been the case for a
long time.

 Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most powerful and
 flexible.

wxPython's event manager adds some flexibility.

Dave Cook
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Re: Python GUI?

[Jerry Hill]

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:55 PM,  eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding PyQT 
 because it has a DD designer :( )? Is Tkinter really dead? Should I stick 
 with wxPython?

If that's a reason for excluding a GUI toolkit, you're in trouble.
Drag and drop layout tools exist for all of your proposed systems.

-- 
Jerry
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Re: Python GUI?

[Ian Foote]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 11/09/13 21:55, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 There are a few known GUI toolkits out there, and the main ones
 from what I can tell are:
 
 Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited PyQT -- You have a GUI
 designer, so I'm not going to count that PyGTK -- Gnome officially
 back this I think wxPython -- Very nice, very professional,
 approved by Python creator, but alas hard to get started with
 
 So, what are your personal preferences and why? Why use X over Y?
 
 I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like
 Tkinter. I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
 
 Have you got anything to say on what one I should be
 using(excluding PyQT because it has a DD designer :( )? Is
 Tkinter really dead? Should I stick with wxPython?
 
 It's might be similar to the What language to use argument, or
 the What background to code on argument(I prefer darker
 backgrounds xD Please don't argue about this though!), in the sense
 that there is *no* answer, just preference.
 
 Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a flow layout like JFrame,
 whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App,
 Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical,
 right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D
 
 Thanks!
 

Another GUI toolkit is kivy (kivy.org). It has a focus on supporting a
wide range of platforms, including Android and IOs, and various input
devices (mouse, keyboard, touchscreen, etc).

Kivy is in active development and I think is well worth a look.

Regards,
Ian F
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Re: Python GUI?

[Benjamin Kaplan]

On Sep 12, 2013 9:06 AM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05:14 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote:
  On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that
 
  What do you mean?  Gtk has a GUI designer too.  what of it
 
   I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter.
 
   I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
 
  Not me.  wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for me.  Does it
 
  still use event numbers that you define?  Shudder.
 
  Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most powerful and
  flexible.
 
   Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding
 
   PyQT because it has a DD designer :( )? Is Tkinter really dead?
 
   Should I stick with wxPython?
  I still don't understand why you are excluding Qt.  All modern toolkits
 
  are heading towards imperative GUI design.  With Gtk I use Glade and
 
  GtkBuilder.  My GUI is in a nice XML file that gets loaded and
 
  manipulated by my python class.  It's extremely clean.  And in the case
 
  of compiled programming, you don't have to recompile just to tweak
 
  something like a layout.
  At the moment if someone were to come in from scratch and ask what GUI
  toolkit to use, I would answer Qt with PySide.  It's the most
  cross-platform of all the toolkits, and it's one of the most mature.
 
  Gtk is also good, but Windows and Mac support is always lagging behind
 
  X11, and it's not as good at fitting into the native look and feel.

   Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a flow layout like JFrame,
 
   whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App,
 
   Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical,
 
   right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D
 
 
 
  Possibly.  I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders, etc to
 
  look more native.  And all good toolkits give you layout managers so you
 
  never have to resort to fixed layouts.  Qt's layout system is very
 
  different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use the Qt
 
  Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense.

 I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :(

 I don't like it when you can DD to position things. I don't understand
why someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code, and have fun with
the debugging. That's the best part about writing a program, in my opinion.
I'm against DD with programming, and I'm not sure why.
 --


There are gui designers for wx as well. Doesn't mean you ever have to use
any of them (although I wouldn't want to write windows forms code by hand).
I do find it generally nicer to work with the markup formats (xrc for wx,
xaml for wpf, and so on) rather than trying to describe a gui in a
programming language.

The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every
platform while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls
wherever possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but
your also more likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my
experience from a few years ago.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Dave Cook]

On 2013-09-12, Dave Cook davec...@nowhere.net wrote:
 There's also a markup language available, enaml:

 http://docs.enthought.com/enaml/

I should have mentioned that it's *Python*-based markup, not an XML
horrorshow.

http://pyvideo.org/video/1231/enaml-a-framework-for-building-declarative-user

Dave Cook
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Re: Python GUI?

[Dave Cook]

On 2013-09-12, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is nothing forcing you to use the GUI designers if you don't want to.

There's also a markup language available, enaml:

http://docs.enthought.com/enaml/

Dave Cook
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Re: Python GUI?

[Robert Kern]

On 2013-09-12 17:03, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05:14 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote:

On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:



Possibly.  I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders, etc to
look more native.  And all good toolkits give you layout managers so you
never have to resort to fixed layouts.  Qt's layout system is very
different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use the Qt
Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense.


I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :(

I don't like it when you can DD to position things. I don't understand why someone 
wouldn't want to write the positioning code, and have fun with the debugging. That's 
the best part about writing a program, in my opinion. I'm against DD with 
programming, and I'm not sure why.


There is nothing forcing you to use the GUI designers if you don't want to.

--
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco

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Re: Python GUI?

[eamonnrea]

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05:14 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote:
 On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that
 
 
 
 What do you mean?  Gtk has a GUI designer too.  what of it?
 
 
 
  I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter.
 
  I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
 
 
 
 Not me.  wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for me.  Does it
 
 still use event numbers that you define?  Shudder.
 
 
 
 Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most powerful and
 
 flexible.
 
 
 
  Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding
 
  PyQT because it has a DD designer :( )? Is Tkinter really dead?
 
  Should I stick with wxPython?
 
 
 
 I still don't understand why you are excluding Qt.  All modern toolkits
 
 are heading towards imperative GUI design.  With Gtk I use Glade and
 
 GtkBuilder.  My GUI is in a nice XML file that gets loaded and
 
 manipulated by my python class.  It's extremely clean.  And in the case
 
 of compiled programming, you don't have to recompile just to tweak
 
 something like a layout.
 
 
 
 At the moment if someone were to come in from scratch and ask what GUI
 
 toolkit to use, I would answer Qt with PySide.  It's the most
 
 cross-platform of all the toolkits, and it's one of the most mature.
 
 Gtk is also good, but Windows and Mac support is always lagging behind
 
 X11, and it's not as good at fitting into the native look and feel.
 
 
 
  Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a flow layout like JFrame,
 
  whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App,
 
  Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical,
 
  right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D
 
 
 
 Possibly.  I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders, etc to
 
 look more native.  And all good toolkits give you layout managers so you
 
 never have to resort to fixed layouts.  Qt's layout system is very
 
 different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use the Qt
 
 Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense.

I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :(

I don't like it when you can DD to position things. I don't understand why 
someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code, and have fun with the 
debugging. That's the best part about writing a program, in my opinion. I'm 
against DD with programming, and I'm not sure why.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/12/2013 10:03 AM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :(
 
 I don't like it when you can DD to position things. I don't
 understand why someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code,
 and have fun with the debugging. That's the best part about writing a
 program, in my opinion. I'm against DD with programming, and I'm not
 sure why.

Oh, I understand now.  You mean you dislike the old fixed-position,
pixel-based layouts that visual studio used to use, right?   Well, rest
easy, because both Gtk and Qt use layout managers (packing managers)
instead.  Much more flexible, and can automatically resize as a window
sizes, and deal with things like dpi changes.

And in both cases you don't have to use the imperative tools.  You can
still hand-code your GUI in code in Gtk, Qt, or any other gui system.

In any event I think you should give both Glade-3 and Qt Designer a
serious look.  I think your hate of gui designers is about 10 years out
of date now, even if you still prefer not to use them.
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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/12/2013 09:02 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
 In any event I think you should give both Glade-3 and Qt Designer a
 serious look.  I think your hate of gui designers is about 10 years out
 of date now, even if you still prefer not to use them.

This is a bit old but still how Qt works:

http://thelins.se/learnqt/2009/05/qt-layouts-the-basics/
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Re: Python GUI?

[Peter]

I stuck with Tkinter combined with PMW for a very long time, but the lack of 
extra widgets finally drove me to look elsewhere.

I tried PyQT but didn't have a good experience. I can't remember details, but 
things just seemed to have little gotchas - which the mailing list were very 
helpful with sorting out, but I found it frustrating to keep asking for help 
over little items of unexpected behaviour.

I have not tried PyGTK so cannot comment.

I finally decided on wxPython - with my basis of Tkinter (graysons book) it was 
quite easy to pick up and run with. The wxPython book is quite good and helps 
get started and using it. I would suggest if you buy and read that, then you 
will no longer find wxPython difficult to get started with.

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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/12/2013 09:39 PM, Peter wrote:
 I stuck with Tkinter combined with PMW for a very long time, but the
 lack of extra widgets finally drove me to look elsewhere.
 
 I tried PyQT but didn't have a good experience. I can't remember
 details, but things just seemed to have little gotchas - which the
 mailing list were very helpful with sorting out, but I found it
 frustrating to keep asking for help over little items of unexpected
 behaviour.

Interesting. I have used Qt and PyQt, and except for the fact that PyQt
isn't very pythonic (feels like C++ translated directly to Python), I
never had any problems with it.  Maybe since I was already familiar with
signals and slots programming I never found any unexpected behavior[1].
 I've never used Tkinter, and I only ever used wxWidgets once (back when
it was called wxWindows), and the close similarity to MFC at the time
(which I was fleeing) didn't sit right with me.  Also the flexible
layout that Qt and Gtk encouraged was a big plus in my mind.  I guess
you like what you get used to.
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Re: Python GUI?

[CM]

 Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited
 
 PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that

As others have pointed out, that's nonsensical.  If you don't like the GUI 
designer, just don't use it.  

 wxPython -- Very nice, very professional, approved by Python creator, but 
 alas hard to get started with

Why is it hard to get started with?  Download the installer, install, and:

import wx
app = wx.App(False)  
frame = wx.Frame(None, -1, Hello World)
frame.Show(True)
app.MainLoop()
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Re: Python GUI?

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, eamonn...@gmail.com wrote:
 PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that

What do you mean?  Gtk has a GUI designer too.  what of it?

 I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter.
 I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.

Not me.  wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for me.  Does it
still use event numbers that you define?  Shudder.

Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most powerful and
flexible.

 Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding
 PyQT because it has a DD designer :( )? Is Tkinter really dead?
 Should I stick with wxPython?

I still don't understand why you are excluding Qt.  All modern toolkits
are heading towards imperative GUI design.  With Gtk I use Glade and
GtkBuilder.  My GUI is in a nice XML file that gets loaded and
manipulated by my python class.  It's extremely clean.  And in the case
of compiled programming, you don't have to recompile just to tweak
something like a layout.

At the moment if someone were to come in from scratch and ask what GUI
toolkit to use, I would answer Qt with PySide.  It's the most
cross-platform of all the toolkits, and it's one of the most mature.
Gtk is also good, but Windows and Mac support is always lagging behind
X11, and it's not as good at fitting into the native look and feel.

 Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a flow layout like JFrame,
 whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App,
 Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical,
 right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D

Possibly.  I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders, etc to
look more native.  And all good toolkits give you layout managers so you
never have to resort to fixed layouts.  Qt's layout system is very
different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use the Qt
Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Python GUI questions

[Jan Riechers]

On 19.03.2013 21:01, maiden129 wrote:

Hello,

I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show the of occurrences of 
the character in the string in Tkinter.

My questions are:

How can I make an empty Entry object that will hold a word that a user will 
enter?

How to make an empty Entry object that will hold a single character that the 
user will enter?

 [..]



Hello,

here is a very good documentation about Tkinter and its most likely that 
the same principals of coding apply to Python 3.x when it comes down to 
the Tkinter part:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

Also as an tip, you can make use of a StringVar object for example - 
those are (if Im not completely wrong) meant to hold values which you 
can then access from the interface. Alike a binding to any element 
holding text. Which should take care of the updating part if you call a 
proper StringVar/yourVariableName.set method of that particular class.


As for the UI creation, have a look at that documentation, its very easy 
to navigate inside if you know what you are looking for.


Regards
Jan


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Re: Python GUI questions

[Rick Johnson]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:21:06 PM UTC-5, Terry Reedy wrote:
 On 3/19/2013 10:16 PM, Ranting Rick wrote:
  [snip code]
 
 when I run this, and click the button, I get:

TypeError: cbButton() missing 1 required positional argument: 'self'
 
 ...when I remove 'self' from cbButton, I get the expected
 I should do something here!

Oops :-), good catch Terry! I had copy-pasted the OP's original method however 
i forgot to remove the self parameter; then i had to convert my Python2.x 
code into 3.x code, which was not terribly difficult, however, this pit stop 
was distracting enough that I forgot to click the button while testing. 

 When I enter something in the Entry box and hit return,
 nothing happens.  

My example does not bind the KeyPress-ReturnKey to any callback, so what were 
you expecting to happen when you pressed enter?

 I presume that is because the example is not complete.

Well it's as complete as it needs to be :-). Any more complete and it would 
less of a teaching exercise and more of a copy-paste exercise. I did not want 
to just gift wrap an answer for the OP. My hope is that he has the basic skills 
to turn that incomplete example into useable code. If not, well, then he needs 
to study that tutorial link i sent early in the thread. 

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Re: Python GUI questions

[Chris Angelico]

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:01 AM, maiden129 sengokubasarafe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show the of occurrences 
 of the character in the string in Tkinter.

This sounds like homework. Have you had a try at it yourself before
asking? If so, show us your code, and point out where the problem is;
if not, give it your best effort before you try to get someone else to
do it for you, as that's the only way to learn!

ChrisA
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Re: Python GUI questions

[maiden129]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 5:39:51 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:01 AM, maiden129 wrote:
 
  Hello,
 
 
 
  I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show the of 
  occurrences of the character in the string in Tkinter.
 
 
 
 This sounds like homework. Have you had a try at it yourself before
 
 asking? If so, show us your code, and point out where the problem is;
 
 if not, give it your best effort before you try to get someone else to
 
 do it for you, as that's the only way to learn!
 
 
 
 ChrisA

This is not homework, I'm trying to learn how do I create a empty object. That 
was my main question.
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Re: Python GUI questions

[Rick Johnson]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:01:24 PM UTC-5, maiden129 wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show
 the of occurrences of the character in the string in
 Tkinter.
 
 My questions are:
 
 How can I make an empty Entry object that will hold a word
 that a user will enter?

I believe you meant to say: How can i CREATE an entry field to accommodate 
user input?

Easy.

 How to make an empty Entry object that will hold a single
 character that the user will enter?

Not as easy, but still quite doable. Do you want to filter the input, allowing 
only a single character? 

 How to A Button object with a text equal to Count?

Easy-pee-see. Follow this yellow brick road to enlightenment.

  http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-whats-tkinter.htm
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Re: Python GUI questions

[maiden129]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:57:42 PM UTC-4, Rick Johnson wrote:
 On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:01:24 PM UTC-5, maiden129 wrote:
 
  Hello,
 
  
 
  I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show
 
  the of occurrences of the character in the string in
 
  Tkinter.
 
  
 
  My questions are:
 
  
 
  How can I make an empty Entry object that will hold a word
 
  that a user will enter?
 
 
 
 I believe you meant to say: How can i CREATE an entry field to accommodate 
 user input?
 
 
 
 Easy.
 
 
 
  How to make an empty Entry object that will hold a single
 
  character that the user will enter?
 
 
 
 Not as easy, but still quite doable. Do you want to filter the input, 
 allowing only a single character? 
 
 
 
  How to A Button object with a text equal to Count?
 
 
 
 Easy-pee-see. Follow this yellow brick road to enlightenment.
 
 
 
   http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-whats-tkinter.htm

Hello,

Here is my try to answer some of questions:


from tkinter import *

class word:
def __init__(self,Entry,Character):
window = Tk()
window.title(Widget)

top = Tk()
L1 = Label(top, text=Enter a string)
L1.pack( side = LEFT)
E1 = Entry(top, bd =5)

E1.pack(side = RIGHT)

top.mainloop()

L2 = Label(bottom, text=Number of single characters)
L2.pack( side = LEFT)
E2 = Entry(bottom, bd =5)

button = Tkinter.Button(bottom, text =Count, command =  
countCharacter).pack()

def countChacater(self):
count = word.count(character)

I'm just struggling with only how to create an object that will hold a single 
character that the user will enter.




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Re: Python GUI questions

[Jason Swails]

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 9:25 PM, maiden129 sengokubasarafe...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:57:42 PM UTC-4, Rick Johnson wrote:
  On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:01:24 PM UTC-5, maiden129 wrote:
 
   Hello,
 
  
 
   I'm using python 3.2.3 and I'm making a program that show
 
   the of occurrences of the character in the string in
 
   Tkinter.
 
  
 
   My questions are:
 
  
 
   How can I make an empty Entry object that will hold a word
 
   that a user will enter?
 
 
 
  I believe you meant to say: How can i CREATE an entry field to
 accommodate user input?
 
 
 
  Easy.
 
 
 
   How to make an empty Entry object that will hold a single
 
   character that the user will enter?
 
 
 
  Not as easy, but still quite doable. Do you want to filter the input,
 allowing only a single character?
 
 
 
   How to A Button object with a text equal to Count?
 
 
 
  Easy-pee-see. Follow this yellow brick road to enlightenment.
 
 
 
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-whats-tkinter.htm

 Hello,

 Here is my try to answer some of questions:


 from tkinter import *

 class word:
 def __init__(self,Entry,Character):
 window = Tk()
 window.title(Widget)

 top = Tk()
 L1 = Label(top, text=Enter a string)
 L1.pack( side = LEFT)
 E1 = Entry(top, bd =5)


This is unlikely to work.  You have overwritten the Entry widget from
tkinter, meaning that E1 will not be an Entry (unless you pass
tkinter.Entry to a word() instance, which seems redundant).

My suggestion is actually to generate classes derived from tkinter widgets
(I often use Frame, since it's quite generic and can act as a container for
any other widget easily).


 E1.pack(side = RIGHT)

 top.mainloop()

 L2 = Label(bottom, text=Number of single characters)
 L2.pack( side = LEFT)
 E2 = Entry(bottom, bd =5)

 button = Tkinter.Button(bottom, text =Count, command =
  countCharacter).pack()

 def countChacater(self):
 count = word.count(character)

 I'm just struggling with only how to create an object that will hold a
 single character that the user will enter.


This is tricky.  The approach I would take is to generate an entry widget
and then bind all key-press events in that widget to a method that checks
how long the input string is.  If it is longer than a single character,
reject the new letter and optionally raise an alert (using, e.g.,
tkMessageBox.showwarning).

If you want the count on the button to be updated continuously, you'll need
to update that counter every time either the input string or character is
changed.

Good luck,
Jason
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Re: Python GUI questions

[Ranting Rick]

On Mar 19, 8:25 pm, maiden129 sengokubasarafe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here is my try to answer some of questions:

 [snip code]
I don't understand why you are wrapping this code into a class. Are
you trying to create something reuseable?

 I'm just struggling with only how to create an object that
 will hold a single character that the user will enter.

I would suggest that you scrape this code and start over, and a good
starting point would be at the BEGINNING.

All (well, *most*) GUI applications begin with a root window. Once
you have created the main window you can start placing widgets inside
the window. This is the basic outline of a Tkinter GUI application.

1. Create the root window.
2. Create all the needed sub-widgets and arrange them properly.
3. Start processing user events.

So using the code you provided (and rearranging it to make sense) you
would end up with this:

## START CODE ##(Python 3.x)
import tkinter as tk
from tkinter.constants import LEFT

def cbButton(self):
print('I should do something here!')

root = tk.Tk()
root.title(Window)
w=tk.Label(root, text=Enter a string)
w.pack(side=LEFT)
e1 = tk.Entry(root, bd=5)
e1.pack(side=LEFT)
b=tk.Button(root, text=Count, command=cbButton)
b.pack(padx=5, pady=5)
root.mainloop()
## END CODE ##

Notice that i used a more intelligent form of import that will
maintain a clean namespace. Tkinter is a very BLOATED module, and
since you are just learning you won't be aware of the names that could
cause problems.

Also notice that my style is consistent. Not following an accepted
coding style is condemnable, however, being inconsistent with your
style is abominable!

PS: Also, trim those excessive quotes please.
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Re: Python GUI questions

[maiden129]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16:25 PM UTC-4, Rick Johnson wrote:
 On Mar 19, 8:25 pm, maiden129 sengokubasarafe...@gmail.com wrote:



So should I redo my other code that I created with the radioButtons to change 
the colors of a text?

from tkinter import *

class buttons:
def __init__(self):
window = Tk()
window.title(Radio buttons and buttons)

self.var = IntVar()


w1 =  Radiobutton(window, text=Red, variable=self.var, 
value=1,command=changeColor).pack()
w2 =  Radiobutton(window, text=Yellow, variable=self.var, 
value=2,command=changeColor).pack()
w3 =  Radiobutton(window, text=White, variable=self.var, 
value=3,command=changeColor).pack()
w4 =  Radiobutton(window, text=Grey, variable=self.var, 
value=4,command=changeColor).pack()
w5 =  Radiobutton(window, text=Green, variable=self.var, 
value=5,command=changeColor).pack()
B1 = Button ( window, text==, command=LEFT).pack()
B2 = Button ( window, text==, command=RIGHT).pack()

def changeColor(self):
self.var.get()



window.mainloop()


buttons()



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Re: Python GUI questions

[Rick Johnson]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:36:28 PM UTC-5, maiden129 wrote:

 So should I redo my other code that I created with
 the radioButtons to change the colors of a text?

I believe so. Although you really should explain what your trying to achieve 
with this code. There is nothing wrong with wrapping some widgets into a single 
reusable class, however, your examples look more like more using a hammer to 
drive screws.

For instance, you have two classes named button and word (psst: those 
identifiers should start with a capitol letter BTW!) which are basically two 
independent Tkinter root windows (even though they don't inherit from 
Tkinter.Tk). 

Tkinter.Tk is meant to be used as the first window, from there you can add as 
many sub-frames, sub-widgets, or even sub-windows (instances of 
Tkinter.Toplevel) as you want. 

If you want more than one window, for your GUI application, then instance as 
many Tkinter.Toplevel windows as you like AFTER you create the ONE AND ONLY 
Tkinter.Tk window.

If however you want to group a number of widgets inside a single window, then 
use the Tkinter.Frame to hold them.
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Re: Python GUI questions

[Terry Reedy]

On 3/19/2013 10:16 PM, Ranting Rick wrote:

import tkinter as tk
from tkinter.constants import LEFT

def cbButton(self):
 print('I should do something here!')

root = tk.Tk()
root.title(Window)
w=tk.Label(root, text=Enter a string)
w.pack(side=LEFT)
e1 = tk.Entry(root, bd=5)
e1.pack(side=LEFT)
b=tk.Button(root, text=Count, command=cbButton)
b.pack(padx=5, pady=5)
root.mainloop()


when I run this, and click the button, I get
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\Programs\Python33\lib\tkinter\__init__.py, line 1442, in 
__call__

return self.func(*args)
TypeError: cbButton() missing 1 required positional argument: 'self'

when I remove 'self' from cbButton, I get the expected
I should do something here!

When I enter something in the Entry box and hit return, nothing happens. 
I presume that is because the example is not complete.


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Re: Python GUI able to display a spatial image

[eagleds88]

On Friday, January 25, 2013 8:34:16 AM UTC-8, Alex wrote:
 Hello, does python have capabilities to display a spatial image and read the 
 coordinates from it? If so, what modules or extension do I need to achieve 
 that? I'll appreciate any help. 
 
 
 
 Thanks, 
 
 Alex

Try basemap: http://matplotlib.org/basemap/
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Re: Python GUI for C program [was: ]

[Thomas Jollans]

On 07/06/2010 12:15 PM, francisco dorset wrote:
 hey am a programmer i have good knowledge of the c language and i will
 like to now how i can use to python to provide graphical user-interface
 for my c programs and or the steps involved in doing this and is it
 possible
 
 if yes i will also like some resources or books to learn from.
 
 any info will be useful thankss

Three ways of doing this:

1. Turn your C program into a library, and write a Python extension
   module to interface it.

2. Embed Python in your C program.

3. If you're talking command-line programs, you can interface the
   compiled programs with the subprocess module.

For (1) and (2), start with the Extending/Embedding section at
http://docs.python.org/py3k/ (or http://docs.python.org/). With (1),
using Cython or SWIG might make writing the glue between Python and
your C code easier.

For (3), check the docs of the subprocess module.

It might, however, be best to simply write the GUI in C as well, which
would avoid the overhead of loading Python and isn't all that difficult
either. If you know C++, check out wxWidgets and Qt4. To stick with
plain C, have a look at GTK+.

Cheers,
Thomas
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Re: Python GUI for C program [was: ]

[bobicanprogram]

On Jul 6, 7:45 am, Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com wrote:
 On 07/06/2010 12:15 PM, francisco dorset wrote:

  hey am a programmer i have good knowledge of the c language and i will
  like to now how i can use to python to provide graphical user-interface
  for my c programs and or the steps involved in doing this and is it
  possible

  if yes i will also like some resources or books to learn from.

  any info will be useful thankss

 Three ways of doing this:

 1. Turn your C program into a library, and write a Python extension
module to interface it.

 2. Embed Python in your C program.

 3. If you're talking command-line programs, you can interface the
compiled programs with the subprocess module.

 For (1) and (2), start with the Extending/Embedding section 
 athttp://docs.python.org/py3k/(orhttp://docs.python.org/). With (1),
 using Cython or SWIG might make writing the glue between Python and
 your C code easier.

 For (3), check the docs of the subprocess module.

 It might, however, be best to simply write the GUI in C as well, which
 would avoid the overhead of loading Python and isn't all that difficult
 either. If you know C++, check out wxWidgets and Qt4. To stick with
 plain C, have a look at GTK+.

 Cheers,
 Thomas


You might want to also look at the SIMPL toolkit (http://
www.icanprogram.com/06py/lesson1/lesson1.html).  You could use Send/
Receive/Reply (QNX style) messaging to add a Python GUI to a C
program.   There are examples of just this at the link above.

bob
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Re: Python GUI for C program [was: ]

[sturlamolden]

On 6 Jul, 13:45, Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com wrote:

 1. Turn your C program into a library, and write a Python extension

Note that using ctypes, Cython or Boost.Python is much less painful
than using Python's C API directly.

 It might, however, be best to simply write the GUI in C as well, which
 would avoid the overhead of loading Python and isn't all that difficult
 either. If you know C++, check out wxWidgets and Qt4. To stick with
 plain C, have a look at GTK+.

You will hardly notice the overhead of loading Python. (It's not
Java...)

Also a good GUI builder is far more important than language when it
comes to making a GUI. Depending on toolkit my preferences are
wxFormBuilder, Qt Designer, GLADE or MS Visual Studio.

- wxFormBuilder are beginning to be ok for wxPython development
without XRC, finally.

- PyQt has licensing issues, although Qt is LGPL. PySide is still
incomplete.

- GLADE/PyGTK has issues on Windows (e.g. need to supply a GTK+ run-
time).

- Visual Studio can be used for IronPython .NET and native MFC
(pywin32 has MFC bindings).

- tkinter generally sucks (tedious to use, looks bad).





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Re: Python GUI for C program [was: ]

[rantingrick]

On Jul 6, 1:14 pm, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:

 Also a good GUI builder is far more important than language when it
 comes to making a GUI. Depending on toolkit my preferences are
 wxFormBuilder, Qt Designer, GLADE or MS Visual Studio.

Thats only true when using any language EXCEPT Python. With Python,
Python is all you need. Python GUI builders are for pansies.

However when using the redundantly asinine C, C++, and Java... well
your already getting bent over, might as well bring some lubrication
to ease the pain!
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Re: python gui

[James Mills]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, a oxfordenergyservi...@googlemail.com wrote:
 where's the best online resource for teaching about GUI building?

There are many many resources available on the topic.
If you simply Google (tm) some of the keywords in your post
you'll be presented with a whole smorgasbord of useful resources.

--james
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Re: python gui ide under linux..like visual studio ;) ?

[ted]

Il 18/01/2010 21:59, Mike Driscoll ha scritto:
 On Jan 18, 8:32 am, ted t...@sjksdjk.it wrote:
 Hi at all...
 Can someone please give me some advice, about a good IDE with control
 GUI under Linux ?

 Actually i know QT Creator by Nokia which i can use with Python (but i
 don't know how).

 And, a good library for access to database (mysql, sql server, oracle) ?

 Thank you very much !

 bye
 
 Check out Dabo for the database stuff: http://dabodev.com/
 
 There is nothing like Visual Studio. The closest I've found are things
 like the QT Creator and wxGlade / Boa Constructor / wxFormBuilder. I
 know I've heard of another one that was commercial, but I can't recall
 the name at the moment.
 
 ---
 Mike Driscoll
 
 Blog:   http://blog.pythonlibrary.org
 
 PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21  http://us.pycon.org/

Thank you very much.

Bye!

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Re: python gui ide under linux..like visual studio ;) ?

[Antoine Pitrou]

Le Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:32:36 +0100, ted a écrit :
 
 And, a good library for access to database (mysql, sql server, oracle) ?

If you want something high-level: http://www.sqlalchemy.org/
You won't regret it :)

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Re: python gui ide under linux..like visual studio ;) ?

[Mike Driscoll]

On Jan 18, 8:32 am, ted t...@sjksdjk.it wrote:
 Hi at all...
 Can someone please give me some advice, about a good IDE with control
 GUI under Linux ?

 Actually i know QT Creator by Nokia which i can use with Python (but i
 don't know how).

 And, a good library for access to database (mysql, sql server, oracle) ?

 Thank you very much !

 bye

Check out Dabo for the database stuff: http://dabodev.com/

There is nothing like Visual Studio. The closest I've found are things
like the QT Creator and wxGlade / Boa Constructor / wxFormBuilder. I
know I've heard of another one that was commercial, but I can't recall
the name at the moment.

---
Mike Driscoll

Blog:   http://blog.pythonlibrary.org

PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21  http://us.pycon.org/
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Re: python gui builders

[Stef Mientki]

Shawn Wheatley wrote:

It's not quite all encompassing, but I found this link last year when
looking for a similar comparison of Python GUIs:
http://ginstrom.com/scribbles/2008/02/26/python-gui-programming-platforms-for-windows/

Tkinter, Qt, GTK, IronPython... I think the only thing missing is
Jython w/ Swing or SWT. Check it out.
  
Instead of *hello* world examples, I was thinking of  *real* world 
applications,

something like this,
 http://mientki.ruhosting.nl/data_www/pylab_works/random_gui.html
which in a good GUI package should be doable in about 100 lines of code.

cheers,
Stef

Shawn

On Nov 18, 5:11 pm, Stef Mientki stef.mien...@gmail.com wrote:
  

Wouldn't it be nice
if each fan of some form of GUI-package,
would post it's code (and resulting images) for generating one or two
standard GUI-forms ?



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Re: python gui builders

[Shawn Wheatley]

It's not quite all encompassing, but I found this link last year when
looking for a similar comparison of Python GUIs:
http://ginstrom.com/scribbles/2008/02/26/python-gui-programming-platforms-for-windows/

Tkinter, Qt, GTK, IronPython... I think the only thing missing is
Jython w/ Swing or SWT. Check it out.

Shawn

On Nov 18, 5:11 pm, Stef Mientki stef.mien...@gmail.com wrote:
 Wouldn't it be nice
 if each fan of some form of GUI-package,
 would post it's code (and resulting images) for generating one or two
 standard GUI-forms ?
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Re: python gui builders

[sturlamolden]

On 18 Nov, 23:56, Kevin Walzer k...@codebykevin.com wrote:

 wxWidgets (the C++ library) has support for a lot of things other than
 UI bits, as well. wxPython itself is mainly a GUI library because the
 additional features of wxWidgets in C++ are redundant in Python.

That is true. Nobody uses wxPython for socket programming in Python.

Qt is also much more than a C++ GUI framework, but in Python it's
mainly (only?) used for GUI.







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Re: python gui builders

[Simon Hibbs]

On 18 Nov, 22:11, Stef Mientki stef.mien...@gmail.com wrote:
 Simon Hibbs wrote:
  On 18 Nov, 07:51, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:

  GPL

  PyQT is GPL for now, but Qt itself is available under the LGPL as is
  PySide. Eventualy PySide, which tracks the PyQT API, will supplant it
  and the issue will be moot. For now it can be a problem, but PyQT
  developer licenses are very afordable at only a few hundred dollars.
  If a commercial project can't aford that, it's got problems.

  Only you can know enough to make an informed decision. Wx does look
  more usable than last time I used it for a project and is a fine
  option too, for me though QT is the gold standard against all others
  are measured, and generaly found wanting.

  Simon Hibbs

 Wouldn't it be nice
 if each fan of some form of GUI-package,
 would post it's code (and resulting images) for generating one or two
 standard GUI-forms ?

 Then everyone can judge the differences,
 and see what's simple and not  so simple !!

I don't think a list like this is a great way to do that. There are
plenty of examples and tutorials available for each option.

Simon Hibbs
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Re: python gui builders

[David Boddie]

On Thursday 19 November 2009 11:50, Simon Hibbs wrote:

 I don't think a list like this is a great way to do that. There are
 plenty of examples and tutorials available for each option.

This site has a selection of tutorials that can be used to compare
API and code styles:

  http://zetcode.com/

David
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Re: python gui builders

[sturlamolden]

On 18 Nov, 22:18, David Bolen db3l@gmail.com wrote:

 With that said, for various reasons I still prefer wxPython to Qt, and
 at the moment, find wxFormBuilder the best fit for my own designs
 (even before the direct Python support, just using XRC).

Personally I prefer wxFormBuilder over QtDesigner for sizer-based
designs.

For quickly creating mock-up designs (GUI or web) there is a Windows
program called DesignerVista.

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Re: python gui builders

[sturlamolden]

On 18 Nov, 20:19, Dave Cook davec...@nowhere.net wrote:

 If it's an issue for your project, I suggest wxPython.  It's
 cross-platform, fairly complete, and extensible.  But the API is
 clunky compared to Qt.

Not if we use wxFormBuilder 3.1.
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Re: python gui builders

[Dave Cook]

On 2009-11-18, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:

 GPL

If it's an issue for your project, I suggest wxPython.  It's
cross-platform, fairly complete, and extensible.  But the API is
clunky compared to Qt.

Dave Cook
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Re: python gui builders

[Simon Hibbs]

On 18 Nov, 07:51, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:


 GPL

PyQT is GPL for now, but Qt itself is available under the LGPL as is
PySide. Eventualy PySide, which tracks the PyQT API, will supplant it
and the issue will be moot. For now it can be a problem, but PyQT
developer licenses are very afordable at only a few hundred dollars.
If a commercial project can't aford that, it's got problems.

Only you can know enough to make an informed decision. Wx does look
more usable than last time I used it for a project and is a fine
option too, for me though QT is the gold standard against all others
are measured, and generaly found wanting.

Simon Hibbs
-- 
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Re: python gui builders

[Simon Hibbs]

On 17 Nov, 23:25, Kevin Walzer k...@codebykevin.com wrote:
 On 11/17/09 4:25 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

  +1 Tkinter for the simple stuff

 You can actually use Tkinter to do quite sophisticated GUI's that rival
 anything found in Qt or wx...

Neither Tkinteror Wx have anything that come close to QGraphicsView,
the Model-View-Delegate framework, the Phonon multimedia framework
integration, QtSQL, QtXML, QtSVG, and the many other first grade
components in Qt. You can substitute components from other frameworks,
e.g. for database access, but then you lose the integration QtSQL has
with the model-view-delegate features in other parts of the Qt world.

Qt is much more than just a GUI framework, it's more of a rival to
something like the MacOS development libraries, or the .NET framework
in terms of the library facilities it offers. I think that's why Nokia
bought into it. Qt provides them with a platform with the potential to
rival the iPhone dev environment.

Of course to take full advantage of it you need to invest in learning
it all, which is non-trivial. It comes at a cost in time and potential
lock-in. But the point is you can't just say Qt is just like Wx.

Simon Hibbs
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Re: python gui builders

[David Bolen]

Simon Hibbs simon.hi...@gmail.com writes:

 I've had this problem for a few years. I've tried PythonCard,
 WxWidgets with WxDesigner, BoaConstructor, etc. None of them come
 anywhere close to PyQT/QTDesigner.

For me, the killer feature missing from of all of the wx-based
designers is that they require sizer based designs at all stages, not
even permitting a fixed layout up front as a first draft.  Either that
or any case I've found permitting a fixed layout, then didn't permit
turning that easily into a sizer-based layout.

From an overall design perspective, that was the feature I found most
intriguing in QTDesigner.  I could randomly drop stuff around the
window while doing an initial layout, which is especially helpful when
you aren't quite sure yet how you want the layout to look.  Then you
can select groups of objects and apply the containers to provide for
flexible layout.

I absolutely prefer sizer-based layouts for a final implementation,
but early in the design stages find it more helpful, and freeing, not
to be as tied to the containers.

With that said, for various reasons I still prefer wxPython to Qt, and
at the moment, find wxFormBuilder the best fit for my own designs
(even before the direct Python support, just using XRC).

-- David
-- 
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Re: python gui builders

[Stef Mientki]

Simon Hibbs wrote:

On 18 Nov, 07:51, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:

  

GPL



PyQT is GPL for now, but Qt itself is available under the LGPL as is
PySide. Eventualy PySide, which tracks the PyQT API, will supplant it
and the issue will be moot. For now it can be a problem, but PyQT
developer licenses are very afordable at only a few hundred dollars.
If a commercial project can't aford that, it's got problems.

Only you can know enough to make an informed decision. Wx does look
more usable than last time I used it for a project and is a fine
option too, for me though QT is the gold standard against all others
are measured, and generaly found wanting.

Simon Hibbs
  

Wouldn't it be nice
if each fan of some form of GUI-package,
would post it's code (and resulting images) for generating one or two 
standard GUI-forms ?


Then everyone can judge the differences,
and see what's simple and not  so simple !!

And of course I'm willing to contribute the wxPython (wrapped in some 
convenience procedures) for it.


cheers,
Stef

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Re: python gui builders

[Kevin Walzer]

On 11/18/09 4:15 PM, Simon Hibbs wrote:

On 17 Nov, 23:25, Kevin Walzerk...@codebykevin.com  wrote:

On 11/17/09 4:25 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:


+1 Tkinter for the simple stuff


You can actually use Tkinter to do quite sophisticated GUI's that rival
anything found in Qt or wx...


Neither Tkinteror Wx have anything that come close to QGraphicsView,
the Model-View-Delegate framework, the Phonon multimedia framework
integration, QtSQL, QtXML, QtSVG, and the many other first grade
components in Qt. You can substitute components from other frameworks,
e.g. for database access, but then you lose the integration QtSQL has
with the model-view-delegate features in other parts of the Qt world.


A few points of response:

-I was focusing primarily on the UI bits, not the other parts of Qt. 
People tend to think that Tkinter only has labels, listboxes, buttons 
and menus: recent advances in Tk have greatly expanded and modernized 
the available widgets. There's also a rich econsystem of widget packages 
within Tk that can be wrapped in Tkinter.


-Qt's support for things like SQL and XML make sense in a Pythonic 
context mainly if you're focusing on their integration with other parts 
of Qt. Python has many of these things just fine on its own, as you 
doubtless know.




Qt is much more than just a GUI framework, it's more of a rival to
something like the MacOS development libraries, or the .NET framework
in terms of the library facilities it offers. I think that's why Nokia
bought into it. Qt provides them with a platform with the potential to
rival the iPhone dev environment.


Of course, and I certainly wasn't claiming otherwise.



Of course to take full advantage of it you need to invest in learning
it all, which is non-trivial. It comes at a cost in time and potential
lock-in. But the point is you can't just say Qt is just like Wx.



wxWidgets (the C++ library) has support for a lot of things other than 
UI bits, as well. wxPython itself is mainly a GUI library because the 
additional features of wxWidgets in C++ are redundant in Python.


--Kevin

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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Re: python gui builders

[me]

Read the OP. No, read it again.

sturlamolden wrote:

On 16 Nov, 11:39, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:


If you are fine with Microsoft only, you can use Windows Forms with MS
Visual Studio and IronPython.


I also forgot to mention:

If you can restrict yourself to Windows, you can always use Visual
Basic or Borland Delphi with pywin32. Either expose your GUI as an
ActiveX to pywin32 (you have e.g. an MFC binding) or expose your
Python as an ActiveX to VB/Delphi. The same approach should work (with
a little bit more work) for C# and VB.NET.

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Re: python gui builders

[Scott David Daniels]

me wrote:

I have looked at the Tk stuff that is built into Python - not 
acceptable. 

Such insightful analysis, and it is _so_ helpful in stating your needs.


[a lot of guff about unacceptable things]


What Python gui builder is well supported, does not require me to learn 
another framework/library, and can crank out stuff for multiple platforms ?


Well, let's see.  You want to do gui work without learning things.
Good luck with that.  If you discover how, I'd like to learn tensor
analysis without using symbols or operations more complex than
addition and subtraction.  Maybe your groundwork can help me out
with that.

I must be in a really cranky mood today.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.dani...@acm.org
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Re: python gui builders

[Simon Hibbs]

On 16 Nov, 10:06, me not_h...@nowhere.com wrote:

 What Python gui builder is well supported, does not require me
 to learn another framework/library, and can crank out stuff for
 multiple platforms ?

You're looking for a framework/library that doesn't require you to
learn it. OK

I've had this problem for a few years. I've tried PythonCard,
WxWidgets with WxDesigner, BoaConstructor, etc. None of them come
anywhere close to PyQT/QTDesigner.

Dion't get Blackadder It hasn't been updated for several years and is
a dead project. In any case it uses QTDesigner for GUI layout anyway.
You're better off using Eric or Wing if you want a decent IDE.

QT does have a learning curve of course, but you get a lot of power
back in return for the investment. I'm just coming to grips with it's
MVC framework and the book Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt
is very helpful with that.

I wouldn't completely dismiss Tkinter. It's too simple for complex
GUIs but I still think it has it's place for basic utilities.

Simon Hibbs
-- 
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Re: python gui builders

[r]

On Nov 17, 12:20 pm, Simon Hibbs simon.hi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wouldn't completely dismiss Tkinter. It's too simple for complex
 GUIs but I still think it has it's place for basic utilities.

Agreed! Tkinter (besides myself) seems to be the whipping boy of
c.l.py. Tkinter has it's place in Python because of the same
simplicity people laboriously lament about! Until something else comes
along that can offer the same benefits of Tkinter and a little extra,
we are going to keep seeing Tkinter release after release. Guido knows
what he is doing people, don't sell the guy short!
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Re: python gui builders

[CM]

On Nov 16, 5:06 am, me not_h...@nowhere.com wrote:
 Good People

 I do not write stuff for humans, as it has been my job to remove
 humans from the loop. But I have to make a front end to a
 component database where everything was built in Python.

 I have looked at the Tk stuff that is built into Python - not
 acceptable. So looking at wxGlade, Boa Constructor, Python Card.
 Also looked at the frames/forms created with QtDesigner, which
 can be used by Python via pyuic. BlackAdder IDE seems to have
 this built-in, but am loathe to buy into another GUI tool for a
 single job.

 I have not been able to find a decent Python gui builder. The

What was your issue with Boa Constructor?  It produces wxPython
code and I find it works quite well (less well on Linux, but if
you use it in Windows, the app will run in Linux w/ minimal need
for changes).

Of course, whatever route you go, you have to learn the widget
toolkit.

Che
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Re: python gui builders

[Joel Davis]

On Nov 16, 5:06 am, me not_h...@nowhere.com wrote:
 Good People

 I do not write stuff for humans, as it has been my job to remove
 humans from the loop. But I have to make a front end to a
 component database where everything was built in Python.

 I have looked at the Tk stuff that is built into Python - not
 acceptable. So looking at wxGlade, Boa Constructor, Python Card.
 Also looked at the frames/forms created with QtDesigner, which
 can be used by Python via pyuic. BlackAdder IDE seems to have
 this built-in, but am loathe to buy into another GUI tool for a
 single job.

 I have not been able to find a decent Python gui builder. The
 last time I did gui garbage was with Borland C++ Builder which
 was ok because I was only using win boxen for that project. This
 time I am using both Linux and Win.

 What Python gui builder is well supported, does not require me
 to learn another framework/library, and can crank out stuff for
 multiple platforms ?

 thanks much,
 me

Glade is pretty easy to use, especially for a simple front end, if you
already know python, then the amount of GTK you'd have to learn would
be very minimal (5-15 minute crash course in it should suffice.) build
your GUI in Glade, link the python code to the xml file, and the go
back to coding non-gui stuff in no time. The Glade utility is free
software so there's no expense (unless you get charged by the byte on
your downloads.)
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Re: python gui builders

[Ben Finney]

Scott David Daniels scott.dani...@acm.org writes:

 Well, let's see. You want to do gui work without learning things. Good
 luck with that. If you discover how, I'd like to learn tensor analysis
 without using symbols or operations more complex than addition and
 subtraction. Maybe your groundwork can help me out with that.

 I must be in a really cranky mood today.

Yeah, it seems that way. Best to let such replies stew in your “Drafts”
folder, get the catharsis from having vented your frustration, then
delete them unsent once you feel better. Works wonders for me :-)

-- 
 \  “If society were bound to invent technologies which could only |
  `\   be used entirely within the law, then we would still be sitting |
_o__)   in caves sucking our feet.” —Gene Kan, creator of Gnutella |
Ben Finney
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Re: python gui builders

[Tim Daneliuk]

Simon Hibbs wrote:
 On 16 Nov, 10:06, me not_h...@nowhere.com wrote:
 
 What Python gui builder is well supported, does not require me
 to learn another framework/library, and can crank out stuff for
 multiple platforms ?
 
 You're looking for a framework/library that doesn't require you to
 learn it. OK
 
 I've had this problem for a few years. I've tried PythonCard,
 WxWidgets with WxDesigner, BoaConstructor, etc. None of them come
 anywhere close to PyQT/QTDesigner.
 
 Dion't get Blackadder It hasn't been updated for several years and is
 a dead project. In any case it uses QTDesigner for GUI layout anyway.
 You're better off using Eric or Wing if you want a decent IDE.
 
 QT does have a learning curve of course, but you get a lot of power
 back in return for the investment. I'm just coming to grips with it's
 MVC framework and the book Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt
 is very helpful with that.
 
 I wouldn't completely dismiss Tkinter. It's too simple for complex
 GUIs but I still think it has it's place for basic utilities.
 
 Simon Hibbs

+1 Tkinter for the simple stuff

-- 

Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
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Re: python gui builders

[Kevin Walzer]

On 11/17/09 4:25 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:



+1 Tkinter for the simple stuff



You can actually use Tkinter to do quite sophisticated GUI's that rival 
anything found in Qt or wx...


--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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