[Pythonmac-SIG] Implementing help

For the BitPim project I currently use the wxWidgets way of doing help, authored using HelpBlocks. Behind the scenes it amounts to various HTML files dumped into a zip file and given a .htb extension. HelpBlocks also makes a Windows format help file (CHM) and I use the native Windows help

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] simple setup.py-for-Windows question

If anyone wants a reference, have a look at makedist.py in the BitPim source. It produces a py2app application on Mac, a RPM via cx-Freeze on Linux and setup.exe via InnoSetup and py2exe on Windows. http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/bitpim/bitpim/makedist.py?view=markup Auxiliary files such as help, im

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonw

As far as I know, other platforms do not have this problem. Windows does. Windows has the idea of subsystems (eg OS/2, Posix, Win32). Pretty much only win32 is used these days. Win32 apps can be marked as console or gui. However console apps can also do gui stuff. So PythonW is used to run gui

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Probably because most of the Python world isn't developing GUI applications (though seems to be a big swing in this direction). As a counterpoint, there are approximately 30,000 downloads of wxPython for each version. wxPython is typically used by developers and the packaged apps are used by the

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

This is a very valid point, but since when has that really mattered to people writing open source software? Windows certainly doesn't seem to have more support from the open source community than anything else. http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=418 As a counter-point, de

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Yeah, exactly. There's not even twice as many Windows projects as Mac OS X projects, and far more Linux projects that Windows projects. Note that it didn't include Windows 98 or the generic Win32 category (trying to categorise a project on SourceForge is a real pain!) It doesn't matter how chea

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Mac Guikits

I'd just like to point out an exception to your rule. REALBasic was originally developed for the mac, REALBasic is not open source, nor does it have Python bindings. This just goes to show that there IS money to be made catering to mac users. And? The original point was that people doing applica

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

After all that, I'd like to say this: BitPim is pretty impressive, despite its dependency on DSV. Eh? DSV is one file, available as open source and is used to parse comma seperated values files (or Delimiter Seperated Values to be more generic). I can't see how that is remotely relevant. Roger _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Even still, given how wrong it is for NetBSD, I find it hard to assign any weight at all to what sourceforge's numbers are. http://freshmeat.net/browse/199/ Quite simply my experience has been that there is a large amount of open source for Windows, despite Microsoft's general disdain for it. I be

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Actually, I know wxWidgets was designed, from the beginning, to be cross platform, specifically targeting Windows and Unix (X, originally Motif). I think that's where the "w" and "x" comes from. Yes, it was intended to be cross platform from the begining. But it was started on Windows and a lot

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Mac Guikits

I don't see much merit at all in these simple "this toolkit is inferior because it's not made on Mac" type of discussions that keep popping up. You are missing the point. The various cross platform Python gui toolkits are all due to history, developer attention, market share etc inferior when co

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

I'm not sure whether to ask if you could explain "compile them into the executable" (I don't know how to do that; I have to give my app to Windows people, but actually (*knowing* anything about Windows . . .) or if you could explain "(bleh)" -- but maybe the one question answers the other. Oh w

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

In your presentation BTW I only got a Mac (mini) a few weeks ago, so all my information was based on what other people contributed. you say that serial devices on the Mac are in /dev with "no other information". That is totally not true, unless you say "no other information available from POS

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

I'd like to see that pie slice for the Mac OS X build to shrink even further.. You aren't satisfied with being the smallest amount of code already ?-) I took at a look at your setup.py, and it looks a fair amount of it doesn't need to be specified: More accurately you are looking at code that ha

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

Obviously not people familiar with http://developer.apple.com/ :) Actually Steven Palm who did most of the original got some changes I still don't understand into libusb to make it work correctly on Mac. There is deep voodoo involved since some of the phones are actually composite devices and MacO

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

So don't bother building a 10.3 version. The 10.2 version should work fine. That is what was tried first - we don't want the extra work! I don't know what the issue was, but there was some incompatibility. Did you know py2app had a --strip option, which does strip -x -S? Nope. The way this wo

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

Every option py2app takes is documented: python setup.py py2app --help I started at http://pythonmac.org/wiki/py2app It would probably be helpful to add the above output to that page. You're probably not setting the right plist keys or something for Apple's help. The documentation doesn't make it

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

Probably because it doesn't have drivers for them. If there's no matching driver, it won't pull up a useful nub to stick on it. The right thing happens in the end. There is no need for drivers on some interfaces, and they must be used on others (eg ones that implement the USB modem protocol or t

[Pythonmac-SIG] Main Python on Mac version?

The standard Python on Mac appears to be the original 2.3.0 release. Is there any reason this never gets updated by Apple? There appear to be several other packages out there that are more recent, but it is never clear what they do. Are they replacements for the Apple python? Do they install alon

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

You're probably not setting the right plist keys or something for Apple's help. The documentation doesn't make it clear what should be set. Additionally I have no idea how to make them from Python so I can automate all this. Python does it, see: python/dist/src/Mac/OSX/Doc There is a heroic amount

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

You don't need to touch Objective-C at all! IOKit is plain old C. All the example code is in Objective C. Quite simply there is far too steep a learning curve to get through these layers be it Objective C or pseudo objects in C plus mapping into Python land. It really is orders of magnitude easie

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Main Python on Mac version?

Apple's upgrade policy seems to be one of urgency rather than convenience. If there were gnarly security issues in Python, I'm sure we'd have seen an upgrade. There's an upgrade around the corner called Tiger (10.4), which will ship with a more recent version of Python. Which version thi

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Main Python on Mac version?

The standard library is large, it's entirely possible that five bugfix releases go by and don't touch anything you use. I think some of the weakref bugfixes (ie in the C core) may be relevant although it I may also have accidentally the usage in such a way that it works around the problems. If you

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Zope py2app, some progress

All the example code is in Objective C. Quite simply there is far too steep a learning curve to get through these layers be it Objective C or pseudo objects in C plus mapping into Python land. Uh, no it isn't. A fair share of the IOKit examples are pure C or C++. Ok, more accurately the examples

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Main Python on Mac version?

To my knowledge, the weakref stuff fixes some edge cases that you probably don't have. Those bugs have been in weakref for a long time. BitPim also isn't a long running process so leaks wouldn't be that big a deal. Yeah, if you want to use a non-system Python with an extension built with the sys

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

I don't really understand how your are doing the development. You have to jump to a term window to run the script? I use xemacs as my editor. The main functionality used is the syntax colouring. It also has a menu bar plugin (IM-Python) that lists the classes and methods in the current file and

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

import pdb ; pdb.set_trace() Use this instead: import pdb; pdb.Pdb().set_trace() It is more convenient in that you end up at the stack level you actually want to be at, rather than inside [pdb] Yes, but it is 4 more characters to type extra Pdb(). versus 'n' and return :-) Roger _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Main Python on Mac version?

As long as it doesn't hurt. And maybe a simple explanation on what PantherPythonFix does and why it's needed. Might help people decide (hopefully, not confuse them -- I'd like to know more). It's a bugfix to distutils, so that when you compile stuff it has a higher probability of doing the rig

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why do I need PantherPythonFix?

10.3. If none of these references answer those questions, please let me know and I will try to add additional info to the wiki so that it is more clear. I am still baffled by all this stuff. Apparently Apple came up with this mechanism (Frameworks) that allows for easy self containment of an en

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why do I need PantherPythonFix?

They are NOT AT ALL designed to be able to facilitate writing software that links against a previous version. With BitPim on Windows and Linux, the Python interpretter is distributed as part of the binary package. There is absolutely no dependencies on what the user's system has, except base C a

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why do I need PantherPythonFix?

Did you read and understand the versioned frameworks blog entry I linked to? What you're saying has basically no relevance to what I said. I read it all. I see the layout. The section about Mach-O, MH_DYLIB and dyld tie directly in to what I was asking about ELF, LD_LIBRARY_PATH and rpath whic

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Versions, Frameworks, Linking, PantherPythonFix

[BTW I apologise for not updating the subject. My questions are in the bigger picture context of Python on Mac, not the need for PantherPythonFix] You quoted something about link-time linker support for frameworks and then talk about runtime linker support.. On other platforms they are related.

[Pythonmac-SIG] Qualcomm Purevoice codec

Can anyone give me hints on how to access the Qualcomm Purevoice codec that is part of Quicktime from Python? In BitPim we convert between wav and Purevoice using the convertor that Qualcomm provides: http://www.cdmatech.com/solutions/products/purevoice_download.jsp Note that they don't supply it

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Versions, Frameworks, Linking, PantherPythonFix

so if you build all of your extensions on a 10.2 environment BTW I don't actually have a 10.2 environment. The Mac Mini comes with 10.3. In other words for a maximally redistributable application: - Install PantherPythonFix immediately, on any Mac OS X 10.3 machine that you will use distutils on

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Versions, Frameworks, Linking, PantherPythonFix

My biggest 3rd party dependency is wxPython. Is there any way of telling if it was built on a machine with the fix applied? It wasn't. Thank you for checking. I have passed on the request to Robin to run PantherPythonFix on his 10.3 build machine. There is no vendor Python on Windows, so py2exe

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Versions, Frameworks, Linking, PantherPythonFix

Technically there is on many HP/Compaq machines :-) But is that runtime actually "accessible", or is it stashed away in a dark corner? Very acessible. It definitely starts out as a standard install from python.org and is in the Add/Remove programs in the same way. And in the thread on setting PAT

Fw: [Pythonmac-SIG] Versions, Frameworks, Linking, PantherPythonFix

Taking a step back, am I the only person who thinks the Python situation on Mac is absolutely ridiculous, although 10.2 looks better than 10.3. As Bob says, you obviously haven't used 10.2... Correct. I don't want to disparage the improvements that have been made, but the situation as it stands ri

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Qualcomm Purevoice codec

The quicktime module for Python 2.4 has a lot of new functionality (and it's also available as an addon for Python 2.3, through my experimental database for Package Manager). Access to codecs is one of the things that has been added. Can you please give me some direction on how to get this into

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Qualcomm Purevoice codec

Easier still is Python23Compat: http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/02/02/python23compat/ Ok, I installed that and did: import Carbon.Qt help(Carbon.Qt) I couldn't see any methods for getting codecs or feeding them wav/pcm information. Roger ___ Pyth

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Qualcomm Purevoice codec

I believe it's Quicktime.Quicktime and Quicktime.Qt -- it doesn't override anything that's implemented in 2.3 Those are the ones. The former has hundreds of constants and the latter has hundreds of methods. Needless to say I have absolutely no idea what to call to get my conversion done. Roge

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Qualcomm Purevoice codec

Yeah, well, I don't think anyone else here has much of an idea, but would be a good place to start. I can tell you from experience that QuickTime is a bit of a pain I had hoped from Jack's original message that it would be a lot e

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app fails with 'optimize'

You don't, optimize is broken. It might work if you're using py2app from svn. Or you can use this few line workaround: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.mobile.bitpim.devel/1779 The "bootstrap=" line should be indented inside the if (ie at the same level as 'import py2app'). Roger _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app fails with 'optimize'

There are other bug fixes and enhancements, and if you don't help me test svn then the next release might be broken for your purposes. I am perfectly happy with the current release :-) Generally I don't run beta/test versions unless they are packaged up in such a way that they are trivial to (un)

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app fails with 'optimize'

Since py2app requires no "installation" process, it's rather trivial. Err, my definition of trivial is I point at something in my browser which downloads something I double click on. There also needs to be something to double click on to get rid of it. I don't care how it is done behind the scene

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app fails with 'optimize'

Since py2app requires no "installation" process, it's rather trivial. Err, my definition of trivial is I point at something in my browser which downloads something I double click on. There also needs to be something to double click on to get rid of it. I don't care how it is done behind the scene

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app fails with 'optimize'

Perhaps I should make the official installer install whatever is in SVN at the time instead of having a release tarball at all :) Ximian used to start the install process for Gnome by doing something like: wget -dump http://./install.sh | sh Note that I don't care how you do thinks behind t

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python documentation in PythonIDE--for Lee Cullens

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Carbon/Conceptual/ProvidingUserAssitAppleHelp/user_help_intro/chapter_1_section_1.html Basically, you need to add some tags to the index page, run Apple's help indexing tool over the help directory, and put it in the right place in the app bundle. I've packa

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Which Python are people going to use?

Whichever one ships with new Macs (presumably 2.3.5). Since I use the same Python version on all platforms, I'll be sticking with 2.3 for a while. The biggest issue is the legal mess with redistributing a Microsoft DLL with Python 2.4 on Windows. If that wasn't an issue, I'd be seriously consideri

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can't register Apple Help book with Carbon.AHmodule

>> from Carbon import AH >> import os >> path = ?? >> AH.AHRegisterHelpBook(path) > > This stuff is probably way deprecated. Look in the Apple docs. That particular function isn't. The Apple docs basically say you can use the plist stuff (without giving sufficient detail for a non-Mac native de

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie....(for now)

> >Having not yet used wxPython, I'm not sure how "native" its apps look, > >but people seem to like its power. > > I very much like it on WinXP, and it works (and looks good) on OSX, > but some advanced widgets don't work. > see www.wxpython.org After downloading wxPython itself, there is also a

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyserial

> i was wondering if anyone has tried to use this library on OSX, i am not > sure that it actually supports it. pyserial works fine on Mac. I've been using it for years in BitPim. Roger ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://ma

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyserial

> Is this helpful for a USB to Serial converter? Yes. That is actually what many cell phone cables are. > I need to talk to a weather > station and I'm looking for some information about how to open an i/o stream > across the kensington usb/serial converter. There is no standard for talking to

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Ref Docs in OSX help format

> The hard part is probably to get IDLE to use the help book, although > I haven't looked into this yet. If you ever get his working, please let us know. I have been able to associate a help book with a wxPython application using the APIs in Carbon.AH and everything looked like it worked (no AP

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Recurring question - which python should I use?

> Note that I have never used ActivePython and therefore cannot comment > on the quality of their work, or even on what they do or do not include. Also don't forget that the license for ActivePython is different than for "vanilla" Python: http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/license_a