Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

> 
> 
> Another one I forgot to add (a bit unrelated):
> 
> - lots of the processing algorithms don't correctly handle z/m
> geometries and the changes are often trivial to allow them to. I'd
> love to see someone generate a list (based off master) of all the
> algorithms which currently don't maintain z and m values and which
> should.
> 

And another big one would be to make QGIS expressions the standard way for 
entering expressions (thinking about raster calculator and layer filter 
expression dialog for example). Maybe the expression dialog should have a 'SQL' 
and "QGIS' mode so that it can use the same UI but constrain expressions to 
valid SQL if the recipient of the expression requires valid SQL.

Regards

Tim


> Nyall
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> These are also issues for plugins, so collating lists and opening bugs
>> against plugins would also help.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Help and Documentation
>>> - Most of our help buttons lead to nowhere, we already talked about pointing
>>> them to the User's Manual online (although we would need a solution for
>>> working with it offline and in different languages)
>>> 
>>> Defaults
>>> - Should default selection color not be opaque?
>>> - Showing only selected features vertexes by default?
>> +1
>> 
>>> - Map template, we could provide a very simple template as default (I think
>>> there was already some discussion about this); Most people I see gets very
>>> confused when they see a completely empty page.
>> 
>> Depends how it's done. I don't think it should always open with a
>> template, but including some nice templates with qgis would be a good
>> start.
>> 
>> 
>> Another idea I'd love to see for 3.0 is switching the main ui to using
>> monochrome "symbolic" icons. I think this could really refresh the
>> interface and avoid the ui from taking attention away for the content
>> (ie, the pretty map you're making). I tried making a script to auto
>> convert the icons as a test and ended up with a horrendous result
>> which had to be burned in a furnace and scattered on the four winds.
>> 
>> Nyall
>> 
>>> 
>>> Alexandre Neto
>>> --
>>> Alexandre Neto
>>> -
>>> @AlexNetoGeo
>>> http://sigsemgrilhetas.wordpress.com
>>> http://gisunchained.wordpress.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

Desktop GIS programming services
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Nyall Dawson]

On 26 November 2016 at 08:09, Nyall Dawson  wrote:
> On 25 November 2016 at 21:22, Alexandre Neto  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> QGIS 3 is getting lots of love, and we are seeing new features being added,
>> some legacy code being clean up, and so on. We are all aware that this will
>> break the 2.x API, but now it's the time for it.
>>
>> So I wondered if this is not the perfect time to think about some UI/UX
>> changes as well, as it will lead to more work in translation and
>> Documentation. Could we do a list of UI/UX stuff that we could improve?
>>
>> I can think of a few things:
>>
>> Consistency
>>  - "search", "select" and "browse" for browsing files;
>> - "Add saved file to map", "Load into canvas when finished", "Open output
>> file after running algorithm";
>> - there is more of these for sure;
>
> I love it!
>
> Stuff like this is a great jumping in point where anyone can get
> involved. It's just a matter of trawling through all the dialogs and
> collating a list of strings which need changing. If that was done then
> someone with commit rights could fix these in a couple of minutes. The
> hard bit (and the bit where ANYONE can help) is making the list in the
> first place.
>
> Some more suggestions (which again, anyone could help with identifying):
>
> - replacing "non standard" icons. We still have some inconsitently
> used icons (such as the expression builder icon) used throughout qgis.
> - dialogs which violate hig conventions:
> - use of ":" at the end of strings
> - bad tab order
> - group boxes with just one widget
> - bad/inconsistent capitalisation in strings, dialog titles, and tooltips
> - widgets without tooltips (or non helpful tooltips)


Another one I forgot to add (a bit unrelated):

- lots of the processing algorithms don't correctly handle z/m
geometries and the changes are often trivial to allow them to. I'd
love to see someone generate a list (based off master) of all the
algorithms which currently don't maintain z and m values and which
should.

Nyall


>
>
> These are also issues for plugins, so collating lists and opening bugs
> against plugins would also help.
>
>
>>
>> Help and Documentation
>> - Most of our help buttons lead to nowhere, we already talked about pointing
>> them to the User's Manual online (although we would need a solution for
>> working with it offline and in different languages)
>>
>> Defaults
>> - Should default selection color not be opaque?
>> - Showing only selected features vertexes by default?
> +1
>
>> - Map template, we could provide a very simple template as default (I think
>> there was already some discussion about this); Most people I see gets very
>> confused when they see a completely empty page.
>
> Depends how it's done. I don't think it should always open with a
> template, but including some nice templates with qgis would be a good
> start.
>
>
> Another idea I'd love to see for 3.0 is switching the main ui to using
> monochrome "symbolic" icons. I think this could really refresh the
> interface and avoid the ui from taking attention away for the content
> (ie, the pretty map you're making). I tried making a script to auto
> convert the icons as a test and ended up with a horrendous result
> which had to be burned in a furnace and scattered on the four winds.
>
> Nyall
>
>>
>> Alexandre Neto
>> --
>> Alexandre Neto
>> -
>> @AlexNetoGeo
>> http://sigsemgrilhetas.wordpress.com
>> http://gisunchained.wordpress.com
>>
>> ___
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>> Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
>> List info: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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[Qgis-developer] Fwd: Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Anita Graser]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Tim Sutton  wrote:

> This is definately a love/hate topic, but as I got used to the ribbons in
> MS-Software, I really see them now as a way to partially reduce the
> clutter, though I have no real idea how to intelligently group the stuff
> (but I'm sure enough brilliant people around here could have good ideas)
> And this would really give QGIS3 a maximum of a "fresh" look.
>
>
> I thought I really disliked ribbons, but the ribbon interface that Marco
> and Sandro from Sourcepole demonstrated in Girona really appealed to me. I
> think if it is carefully done it could be nice. However I don't know it it
> makes sense for general use cases where users probably value screen real
> estate over big easy to click buttons. In Sourcepole's case they had a very
> well defined audience and specific activities they needed to perform I
> thought it made a lot of sense.
>

​I also liked the ​customized UI by Sourcepole but Tim is right, they had
to fit a really limited set of functionality.

Additonally, for example, the Powerpoint ribbon is as high as four rows of
toolbars on my notebook. And the ribbons cannot be arrange vertically on
the left or right side. This leaves very little map space, particularly on
notebooks.​

​https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42637169/ribbon.PNG

​Best wishes,
Anita​

​
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Nyall Dawson]

On 25 November 2016 at 21:22, Alexandre Neto  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> QGIS 3 is getting lots of love, and we are seeing new features being added,
> some legacy code being clean up, and so on. We are all aware that this will
> break the 2.x API, but now it's the time for it.
>
> So I wondered if this is not the perfect time to think about some UI/UX
> changes as well, as it will lead to more work in translation and
> Documentation. Could we do a list of UI/UX stuff that we could improve?
>
> I can think of a few things:
>
> Consistency
>  - "search", "select" and "browse" for browsing files;
> - "Add saved file to map", "Load into canvas when finished", "Open output
> file after running algorithm";
> - there is more of these for sure;

I love it!

Stuff like this is a great jumping in point where anyone can get
involved. It's just a matter of trawling through all the dialogs and
collating a list of strings which need changing. If that was done then
someone with commit rights could fix these in a couple of minutes. The
hard bit (and the bit where ANYONE can help) is making the list in the
first place.

Some more suggestions (which again, anyone could help with identifying):

- replacing "non standard" icons. We still have some inconsitently
used icons (such as the expression builder icon) used throughout qgis.
- dialogs which violate hig conventions:
- use of ":" at the end of strings
- bad tab order
- group boxes with just one widget
- bad/inconsistent capitalisation in strings, dialog titles, and tooltips
- widgets without tooltips (or non helpful tooltips)


These are also issues for plugins, so collating lists and opening bugs
against plugins would also help.


>
> Help and Documentation
> - Most of our help buttons lead to nowhere, we already talked about pointing
> them to the User's Manual online (although we would need a solution for
> working with it offline and in different languages)
>
> Defaults
> - Should default selection color not be opaque?
> - Showing only selected features vertexes by default?
+1

> - Map template, we could provide a very simple template as default (I think
> there was already some discussion about this); Most people I see gets very
> confused when they see a completely empty page.

Depends how it's done. I don't think it should always open with a
template, but including some nice templates with qgis would be a good
start.


Another idea I'd love to see for 3.0 is switching the main ui to using
monochrome "symbolic" icons. I think this could really refresh the
interface and avoid the ui from taking attention away for the content
(ie, the pretty map you're making). I tried making a script to auto
convert the icons as a test and ended up with a horrendous result
which had to be burned in a furnace and scattered on the four winds.

Nyall

>
> Alexandre Neto
> --
> Alexandre Neto
> -
> @AlexNetoGeo
> http://sigsemgrilhetas.wordpress.com
> http://gisunchained.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] UIX/Qt5 Styles on Linux

[Nyall Dawson]

On 25 November 2016 at 23:21, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
> Il 25/11/2016 14:17, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:
>
>> Ah, yes, now I have cleanlook also again...
>>
>> Adwaita misses some icons with me here by the way (screeny attached)
>
> yes, I also noticed some overlaps and not-so-nice borders.
> BTW (a long standing issue, may be worth checking it here):
> the top toolbars are movable by clicking on the dotted stripe on the
> left, except for the very first ones on the left, that seem "glued" to
> the border: is this a know issue? A Qt one?
> All the best.

Adwaita is very broken for Qt apps. Eg it makes Virtualbox unusable.

I'd actually like to see us blacklist Adwaita and not allow it for use
in Qt until the theme is fixed. Given that it's the default theme in
Fedora I think it does us a real disservice and gives new users a bad
impression of QGIS being a broken app.

Nyall



> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Tim Sutton]

Hi


> On 25 Nov 2016, at 2:01 PM, Bernd Vogelgesang  
> wrote:
> 
> I also wondered that there was no discussion about those topic for QGIS 3 so 
> far, so I dare to throw into the collection a topic that a while ago was 
> raised somewhere:
> 
> Ribbon based menues/menue groups
> 
> This is definately a love/hate topic, but as I got used to the ribbons in 
> MS-Software, I really see them now as a way to partially reduce the clutter, 
> though I have no real idea how to intelligently group the stuff (but I'm sure 
> enough brilliant people around here could have good ideas)
> And this would really give QGIS3 a maximum of a "fresh" look.

I thought I really disliked ribbons, but the ribbon interface that Marco and 
Sandro from Sourcepole demonstrated in Girona really appealed to me. I think if 
it is carefully done it could be nice. However I don't know it it makes sense 
for general use cases where users probably value screen real estate over big 
easy to click buttons. In Sourcepole's case they had a very well defined 
audience and specific activities they needed to perform I thought it made a lot 
of sense.

Regards

Tim


> 
> Cheers
> Bernd
> 
> Am 25.11.2016, 12:44 Uhr, schrieb Paolo Cavallini  >:
> 
>> Il 25/11/2016 12:37, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:
>> 
>>> Would be good if somebody collects these idea's, and (given we can come
>>> to some consensus...) maybe try to do a special 'UIX'-funding round
>>> somewhere later in the QGIS-3 process (when api etc etc are settled)?
>> 
>> agreed, a targeted funding could be started. I think most of the stuff
>> is rather independent from API changes, so probably the two initiatives
>> could go largely in parallel (March is very close, as other have pointed
>> out).
>> All the best, and thanks.
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bernd Vogelgesang
> Siedlerstraße 2
> 91083 Baiersdorf/Igelsdorf
> Tel: 09133-825374
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—









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Co-founder: Kartoza
Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

Desktop GIS programming services
Geospatial web development
GIS Training
Consulting Services

Skype: timlinux 
IRC: timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net

Kartoza is a merger between Linfiniti and Afrispatial

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi Alexandre,

Il 25/11/2016 15:07, Alexandre Neto ha scritto:

> Maybe I am over-simplifiyng things, but I think some of this issues are
> repetitive tasks that, once learned, even a non-developer could take
> care of. So maybe one needs just a gentle push from from one available
> developer, and then do the rest. I would love to help in some of these.

agreed, this kind of things fall somewhat in between the aims of a dev
and those of a normal user, and are easily overlooked.
all the best.

-- 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Tom Chadwin]

If Alexandre is right, I'd love to help as well, if I can.



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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Alexandre Neto]

Hi Richard,

Richard Duivenvoorde  escreveu no dia sexta,
25/11/2016 às 11:37:

>
> Which brings me to the point: we need devs/resources to do such things
> too. Also for me it is too easy to rethink stuff, but not able to do it
> myself it does not happen by itself...
>
>
Maybe I am over-simplifiyng things, but I think some of this issues are
repetitive tasks that, once learned, even a non-developer could take care
of. So maybe one needs just a gentle push from from one available
developer, and then do the rest. I would love to help in some of these.

Alexandre Neto
-- 
Alexandre Neto
-
@AlexNetoGeo
http://sigsemgrilhetas.wordpress.com
http://gisunchained.wordpress.com
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Re: [Qgis-developer] UIX/Qt5 Styles on Linux

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 25/11/2016 14:17, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:

> Ah, yes, now I have cleanlook also again...
> 
> Adwaita misses some icons with me here by the way (screeny attached)

yes, I also noticed some overlaps and not-so-nice borders.
BTW (a long standing issue, may be worth checking it here):
the top toolbars are movable by clicking on the dotted stripe on the
left, except for the very first ones on the left, that seem "glued" to
the border: is this a know issue? A Qt one?
All the best.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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Re: [Qgis-developer] UIX/Qt5 Styles on Linux

[Richard Duivenvoorde]

On 25-11-16 14:06, Paolo Cavallini wrote:

Hi Richard,

Il 25/11/2016 13:27, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:


adwaita-icon-theme - default icon theme of GNOME
adwaita-qt - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme
adwaita-qt-data - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme — data files


thanks for the tip, I had the same feeling, nice to see it nice again.
Installing qt5-style-plugins adds back more styles (apparently all that
were available previously).
Perhaps the packages should be at least suggested from the package.


Ah, yes, now I have cleanlook also again...

Adwaita misses some icons with me here by the way (screeny attached)

Richard
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Re: [Qgis-developer] UIX/Qt5 Styles on Linux

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi Richard,

Il 25/11/2016 13:27, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:

> adwaita-icon-theme - default icon theme of GNOME
> adwaita-qt - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme
> adwaita-qt-data - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme — data files

thanks for the tip, I had the same feeling, nice to see it nice again.
Installing qt5-style-plugins adds back more styles (apparently all that
were available previously).
Perhaps the packages should be at least suggested from the package.
All the best.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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[Qgis-developer] UIX/Qt5 Styles on Linux

[Richard Duivenvoorde]

Hi,

This picture:
http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1480074074.png
shows to the left QGIS 2.18/Qt4 in which I could choose (I'm on Debian 
here) several Styles. To the right is current Master/Qt5 in which I can 
only choose between 'Fusion' and 'Windows' (last one being nice on 
windows, but really ugly on my Gnome desktop here).


I think I like the gtk+/adwaita theme better then the Fusion one in 
master, but I'm wondering if on Windows/Mac it is the same...


FYI: some googling showed me I had to install adwaita theme as a 
separate package, to make it look 'good' again:


adwaita-icon-theme - default icon theme of GNOME
adwaita-qt - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme
adwaita-qt-data - Qt 5 port of GNOME’s Adwaita theme — data files

apparently with the Fusion theme Qt tries to create a 'general usable' 
style for Qt applications


Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde

[0] 
https://blog.qt.io/blog/2012/10/30/cleaning-up-styles-in-qt5-and-adding-fusion/


[1] 
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Uniform_look_for_Qt_and_GTK_applications

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 25/11/2016 13:01, Bernd Vogelgesang ha scritto:
> I also wondered that there was no discussion about those topic for QGIS
> 3 so far, so I dare to throw into the collection a topic that a while
> ago was raised somewhere:
> 
> Ribbon based menues/menue groups
> 
> This is definately a love/hate topic, but as I got used to the ribbons
> in MS-Software, I really see them now as a way to partially reduce the
> clutter, though I have no real idea how to intelligently group the stuff
> (but I'm sure enough brilliant people around here could have good ideas)
> And this would really give QGIS3 a maximum of a "fresh" look.

Interesting. In case, better having it optional.
Thanks.

-- 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Bernd Vogelgesang]

I also wondered that there was no discussion about those topic for QGIS 3  
so far, so I dare to throw into the collection a topic that a while ago  
was raised somewhere:


Ribbon based menues/menue groups

This is definately a love/hate topic, but as I got used to the ribbons in  
MS-Software, I really see them now as a way to partially reduce the  
clutter, though I have no real idea how to intelligently group the stuff  
(but I'm sure enough brilliant people around here could have good ideas)

And this would really give QGIS3 a maximum of a "fresh" look.

Cheers
Bernd

Am 25.11.2016, 12:44 Uhr, schrieb Paolo Cavallini :


Il 25/11/2016 12:37, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:


Would be good if somebody collects these idea's, and (given we can come
to some consensus...) maybe try to do a special 'UIX'-funding round
somewhere later in the QGIS-3 process (when api etc etc are settled)?


agreed, a targeted funding could be started. I think most of the stuff
is rather independent from API changes, so probably the two initiatives
could go largely in parallel (March is very close, as other have pointed
out).
All the best, and thanks.




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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 25/11/2016 12:37, Richard Duivenvoorde ha scritto:

> Would be good if somebody collects these idea's, and (given we can come
> to some consensus...) maybe try to do a special 'UIX'-funding round
> somewhere later in the QGIS-3 process (when api etc etc are settled)?

agreed, a targeted funding could be started. I think most of the stuff
is rather independent from API changes, so probably the two initiatives
could go largely in parallel (March is very close, as other have pointed
out).
All the best, and thanks.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Richard Duivenvoorde]

On 25-11-16 12:27, Paolo Cavallini wrote:

Hi Alexandre,
thanks for raising this, much appreciated.


Yep, also from me: let's make QGIS the Desktop gis with the best UIX of 
all. Now is the time indeed!


@Alexandre: note that we closed the qgis-ux mailinglist as there was 
almost no traffic, and IF there was, we often needed input from the dev 
list so everybody started cross-posting anyway. So we decided to remove 
the ux list.


Which brings me to the point: we need devs/resources to do such things 
too. Also for me it is too easy to rethink stuff, but not able to do it 
myself it does not happen by itself...



Il 25/11/2016 12:22, Alexandre Neto ha scritto:


So I wondered if this is not the perfect time to think about some UI/UX
changes as well, as it will lead to more work in translation and
Documentation. Could we do a list of UI/UX stuff that we could improve?


Yep please: I should know there is some wiki page with 'wishes and 
changes' in QGIS3 but I do not have the url with me here (anybody?).


Would be good if somebody collects these idea's, and (given we can come 
to some consensus...) maybe try to do a special 'UIX'-funding round 
somewhere later in the QGIS-3 process (when api etc etc are settled)?


Coming to a consensus is maybe best done during a (big?) user or 
developers meeting?


Regards,

Richard

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi Alexandre,
thanks for raising this, much appreciated.

Il 25/11/2016 12:22, Alexandre Neto ha scritto:

> So I wondered if this is not the perfect time to think about some UI/UX
> changes as well, as it will lead to more work in translation and
> Documentation. Could we do a list of UI/UX stuff that we could improve? 

agreed

> *Consistency*
>  - "search", "select" and "browse" for browsing files;
> - "Add saved file to map", "Load into canvas when finished", "Open
> output file after running algorithm";
> - there is more of these for sure;

agreed. the point is finding all of them

> *Help and Documentation*
> - Most of our help buttons lead to nowhere, we already talked about
> pointing them to the User's Manual online (although we would need a
> solution for working with it offline and in different languages)

agreed - there has been lots of discussion about this, time is ripe to
implement a solution

> *Defaults*
> - Should default selection color not be opaque?

+1

> - Showing only selected features vertexes by default?

-0

> - Map template, we could provide a very simple template as default (I
> think there was already some discussion about this); Most people I see
> gets very confused when they see a completely empty page.

++1

Thanks again.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
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[Qgis-developer] Any UI/UX plans for QGIS3?

[Alexandre Neto]

Hello all,

QGIS 3 is getting lots of love, and we are seeing new features being added,
some legacy code being clean up, and so on. We are all aware that this will
break the 2.x API, but now it's the time for it.

So I wondered if this is not the perfect time to think about some UI/UX
changes as well, as it will lead to more work in translation and
Documentation. Could we do a list of UI/UX stuff that we could improve?

I can think of a few things:

*Consistency*
 - "search", "select" and "browse" for browsing files;
- "Add saved file to map", "Load into canvas when finished", "Open output
file after running algorithm";
- there is more of these for sure;

*Help and Documentation*
- Most of our help buttons lead to nowhere, we already talked about
pointing them to the User's Manual online (although we would need a
solution for working with it offline and in different languages)

*Defaults*
- Should default selection color not be opaque?
- Showing only selected features vertexes by default?
- Map template, we could provide a very simple template as default (I think
there was already some discussion about this); Most people I see gets very
confused when they see a completely empty page.

Alexandre Neto
-- 
Alexandre Neto
-
@AlexNetoGeo
http://sigsemgrilhetas.wordpress.com
http://gisunchained.wordpress.com
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