Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi Tim,


The bug fixing programme already started - I believe there are still 
funds to support bug fixing so those interested should register with 
Andreas (who can also confirm if there are still funds available). 
Agreed it will be good to step it up over this month as we ramp up to 
release.


yes - and we already spent approx. 2/3 of our dedicated 3.0 bug fixing 
funds (including some expected pending invoices which I should receive 
in the next couple days). See also 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F6v4g8Ayb3wIt73rxFKD8h4B95MaTwt-eDit8YvReB0/edit?usp=sharing 
for what was done regarding the paid bug fixing programme.


Funds are not unlimited, unfortunately, so if you want to work on behalf 
of this bug fixing initiative, please contact me upfront to check if 
funds are still available. I am going to publish the financial report 
next week - it is almost finished. Still waiting for some invoices from 
work done last year.





* we do not release with severe AND prominent known issue


Sure if it is corrupting your data or what have you it should be held 
back.


crashes are just as bad as one usually looses project configuration 
during the crash.




* we have a shorter dot release cycle (maybe once a week or switch to 
nightly builds) to avoid waiting too long for fixes


-1 from me for this. I think this is really going to screw around with 
Jürgen’s workflow - lets try to minimise churn and just slot into the 
standard workflows as much as possible.


I agree. Better stick with Jürgens schedule. I think our releases are 
already often enough. Besides for those who really need them there are 
nightly and weeklies. No need for extra releases.


Andreas
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

> On 03 Jan 2018, at 02:34, Denis Rouzaud  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:
> 
> "2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
> of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
> releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
> QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
> stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
> organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
> before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
> their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."
> 
> I agree on release asap knowing it might not be the most stable release ever.
> But, I would make sure
> * we have a serious effort on bugfixing prior to the release and following it

The bug fixing programme already started - I believe there are still funds to 
support bug fixing so those interested should register with Andreas (who can 
also confirm if there are still funds available). Agreed it will be good to 
step it up over this month as we ramp up to release.


> * we do not release with severe AND prominent known issue

Sure if it is corrupting your data or what have you it should be held back.


> * we have a shorter dot release cycle (maybe once a week or switch to nightly 
> builds) to avoid waiting too long for fixes

-1 from me for this. I think this is really going to screw around with Jürgen’s 
workflow - lets try to minimise churn and just slot into the standard workflows 
as much as possible.

Regards

Tim



> 
> Best regards,
> Denis
>  

—







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Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Mathieu Pellerin]

I'm -1 to label 3.0 a "beta" product. I'd argue that in many respects, 3.0
is a more stable and reliable product than 2.18.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Bernd Vogelgesang  wrote:

> Am 02.01.2018, 23:39 Uhr, schrieb Nyall Dawson :
>
>
>
>>> I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people using
>>> QGIS 3 - we must just be careful to tell people that it is ‘next-gen’ and
>>> that the LTR is still 2.18….
>>>
>>
>> Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:
>>
>> "2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
>> of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
>> releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
>> QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
>> stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
>> organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
>> before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
>> their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."
>>
>> Nyall
>>
>
> 
>
> I like all your elaborated wordings, but couldn't you just brand 3.0 with
> a huge red BETA mark, and nearly everyone should know what this means:
> Evaluation: Yes!, Production: Maybe, on yout own risk.
>
> 
>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Bernd Vogelgesang]

Am 02.01.2018, 23:39 Uhr, schrieb Nyall Dawson :




I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people using  
QGIS 3 - we must just be careful to tell people that it is ‘next-gen’  
and that the LTR is still 2.18….


Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:

"2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."

Nyall




I like all your elaborated wordings, but couldn't you just brand 3.0 with  
a huge red BETA mark, and nearly everyone should know what this means:  
Evaluation: Yes!, Production: Maybe, on yout own risk.





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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Denis Rouzaud]

>
>
>
>
> Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:
>
> "2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
> of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
> releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
> QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
> stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
> organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
> before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
> their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."
>

I agree on release asap knowing it might not be the most stable release
ever.
But, I would make sure
* we have a serious effort on bugfixing prior to the release and following
it
* we do not release with severe AND prominent known issue
* we have a shorter dot release cycle (maybe once a week or switch to
nightly builds) to avoid waiting too long for fixes

Best regards,
Denis
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Paolo Cavallini]

Fully agreed, both with the general meaning and with the wording.
Thanks.

Il 2 gennaio 2018 23:39:17 CET, Nyall Dawson  ha 
scritto:
>On 3 January 2018 at 06:51, Tim Sutton  wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> On 02 Jan 2018, at 12:16, Nyall Dawson 
>wrote:
>>
>> On 2 January 2018 at 19:54, Mathieu Pellerin 
>wrote:
>>
>>
>> +1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give
>us 2 weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend
>the soft freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft
>freeze period saw a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.
>>
>>
>> I'm in favour of hard freezing this time (assuming we can get those
>> last couple of PRs reviewed quickly and merged).
>>
>> But I'm against setting a hard deadline for the final release yet.
>> That said truth is that IMO 3.0 still feels very buggy, and there's
>> lots of open high priority regressions against it. I think we've got
>> two options:
>>
>> 1. Move to a regular "are we ready for final release?" vote
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2. Just decide that 3.0.0 will have bugs, and that we should "release
>> early, release often" and hope that we stabilise things quickly for
>>
>> 3.0.1/3.0.2/…
>>
>>
>>
>> I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people
>using QGIS 3 - we must just be careful to tell people that it is
>‘next-gen’ and that the LTR is still 2.18….
>
>Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:
>
>"2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
>of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
>releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
>QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
>stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
>organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
>before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
>their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."
>
>Nyall
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Nyall Dawson]

On 3 January 2018 at 06:51, Tim Sutton  wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> On 02 Jan 2018, at 12:16, Nyall Dawson  wrote:
>
> On 2 January 2018 at 19:54, Mathieu Pellerin  wrote:
>
>
> +1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give us 2 
> weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend the soft 
> freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft freeze period saw 
> a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.
>
>
> I'm in favour of hard freezing this time (assuming we can get those
> last couple of PRs reviewed quickly and merged).
>
> But I'm against setting a hard deadline for the final release yet.
> That said truth is that IMO 3.0 still feels very buggy, and there's
> lots of open high priority regressions against it. I think we've got
> two options:
>
> 1. Move to a regular "are we ready for final release?" vote
>
> or
>
> 2. Just decide that 3.0.0 will have bugs, and that we should "release
> early, release often" and hope that we stabilise things quickly for
>
> 3.0.1/3.0.2/…
>
>
>
> I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people using QGIS 3 
> - we must just be careful to tell people that it is ‘next-gen’ and that the 
> LTR is still 2.18….

Ok, let me re-word option 2 as:

"2. Carefully manage release expectations, with detailed explanations
of known issues and regressions in the release notes. Stress in press
releases/release notes that 3.0 is a new major release and that the
QGIS team do not consider it a suitable replacement for the current
stable LTR release, and that it is highly recommended that
organisations do not replace their existing QGIS 2.x installations
before careful in-house testing and evaluation of its suitability for
their workplace. The next stable LTR QGIS release will be QGIS 3.2."

Nyall
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[James Shaeffer]

Not a major contributor by any means, but I agree with Tim on this.

James Shaeffer

> I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people using QGIS 3 
> - we must just be careful to tell people that it is ‘next-gen’ and that the 
> LTR is still 2.18….
>
>Regards
>
>Tim

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

> On 02 Jan 2018, at 12:16, Nyall Dawson  wrote:
> 
> On 2 January 2018 at 19:54, Mathieu Pellerin  wrote:
>> 
>> +1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give us 2 
>> weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend the soft 
>> freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft freeze period saw 
>> a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.
>> 
> 
> I'm in favour of hard freezing this time (assuming we can get those
> last couple of PRs reviewed quickly and merged).
> 
> But I'm against setting a hard deadline for the final release yet.
> That said truth is that IMO 3.0 still feels very buggy, and there's
> lots of open high priority regressions against it. I think we've got
> two options:
> 
> 1. Move to a regular "are we ready for final release?" vote
> 
> or
> 
> 2. Just decide that 3.0.0 will have bugs, and that we should "release
> early, release often" and hope that we stabilise things quickly for
> 3.0.1/3.0.2/…


I think on balance I prefer option #2 as it will get more people using QGIS 3 - 
we must just be careful to tell people that it is ‘next-gen’ and that the LTR 
is still 2.18….

Regards

Tim

> 
> Nyall
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Co-founder: Kartoza
Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

Desktop GIS programming services
Geospatial web development
GIS Training
Consulting Services

Skype: timlinux 
IRC: timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Luigi Pirelli]

+1 for freeze and more bug fix... I've report about processing regresións

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018, Nyall Dawson  wrote:

> On 2 January 2018 at 19:54, Mathieu Pellerin  wrote:
> >
> > +1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give us 2
> weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend the soft
> freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft freeze period
> saw a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.
> >
>
> I'm in favour of hard freezing this time (assuming we can get those
> last couple of PRs reviewed quickly and merged).
>
> But I'm against setting a hard deadline for the final release yet.
> That said truth is that IMO 3.0 still feels very buggy, and there's
> lots of open high priority regressions against it. I think we've got
> two options:
>
> 1. Move to a regular "are we ready for final release?" vote
>
> or
>
> 2. Just decide that 3.0.0 will have bugs, and that we should "release
> early, release often" and hope that we stabilise things quickly for
> 3.0.1/3.0.2/...
>
> Nyall
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Nyall Dawson]

On 2 January 2018 at 19:54, Mathieu Pellerin  wrote:
>
> +1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give us 2 
> weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend the soft 
> freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft freeze period saw 
> a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.
>

I'm in favour of hard freezing this time (assuming we can get those
last couple of PRs reviewed quickly and merged).

But I'm against setting a hard deadline for the final release yet.
That said truth is that IMO 3.0 still feels very buggy, and there's
lots of open high priority regressions against it. I think we've got
two options:

1. Move to a regular "are we ready for final release?" vote

or

2. Just decide that 3.0.0 will have bugs, and that we should "release
early, release often" and hope that we stabilise things quickly for
3.0.1/3.0.2/...

Nyall
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Mathieu Pellerin]

+1 to set a release date for the last week of January. That'll give us 2
weeks of freeze period (assuming the vote turns out not to extend the soft
freeze) which can be used to focus on fixes only. The soft freeze period
saw a nice set of fixes too, which was nice.



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Nathan Woodrow  wrote:

> I think we really need some more bug fixing time.  I noticed all the
> layouts stuff from Nyall is now there but given the large amount of work
> more time would be good IMO.
>
> - Nathan
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Tim Sutton  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> For my part I think we can go ahead and set a date for the freeze (e.g.
>> Friday) - Etienne still needs to commit the last metadata serialisation
>> stuff but he has kindly come back from leave for a day to finish that.
>> Stephané wanted to merge the OGC filters stuff which is fine for me.
>>
>> Do we want  have some additional bug fix only time before we make the
>> actual release - perhaps targeting the release for the end of Jan? I
>> haven't looked in detail what blocking issues there are but from Mac point
>> of view the GRASS processing tools still don’t work which is a bit of a
>> blocker IMHO.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 02 Jan 2018, at 11:31, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> for the first time, a good part of developers are uncertain about the
>> need to postpone the freeze. IMHO it is better to discuss about his in
>> the list. From my point of view, we should postpone it only if there is
>> a real, strong necessity, which does not seem the case now.
>> Opinions?
>> All the best.
>> --
>> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
>> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
>> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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>>
>> —
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tim Sutton*
>>
>> *Co-founder:* Kartoza
>> *Project chair:* QGIS.org
>>
>> Visit http://kartoza.com to find out about open source:
>>
>> Desktop GIS programming services
>> Geospatial web development
>> GIS Training
>> Consulting Services
>>
>> *Skype*: timlinux
>> *IRC:* timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net
>>
>>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Nathan Woodrow]

I think we really need some more bug fixing time.  I noticed all the
layouts stuff from Nyall is now there but given the large amount of work
more time would be good IMO.

- Nathan

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Tim Sutton  wrote:

> Hi
>
> For my part I think we can go ahead and set a date for the freeze (e.g.
> Friday) - Etienne still needs to commit the last metadata serialisation
> stuff but he has kindly come back from leave for a day to finish that.
> Stephané wanted to merge the OGC filters stuff which is fine for me.
>
> Do we want  have some additional bug fix only time before we make the
> actual release - perhaps targeting the release for the end of Jan? I
> haven't looked in detail what blocking issues there are but from Mac point
> of view the GRASS processing tools still don’t work which is a bit of a
> blocker IMHO.
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 02 Jan 2018, at 11:31, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> for the first time, a good part of developers are uncertain about the
> need to postpone the freeze. IMHO it is better to discuss about his in
> the list. From my point of view, we should postpone it only if there is
> a real, strong necessity, which does not seem the case now.
> Opinions?
> All the best.
> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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>
> —
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tim Sutton*
>
> *Co-founder:* Kartoza
> *Project chair:* QGIS.org
>
> Visit http://kartoza.com to find out about open source:
>
> Desktop GIS programming services
> Geospatial web development
> GIS Training
> Consulting Services
>
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> *IRC:* timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net
>
>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

For my part I think we can go ahead and set a date for the freeze (e.g. Friday) 
- Etienne still needs to commit the last metadata serialisation stuff but he 
has kindly come back from leave for a day to finish that. Stephané wanted to 
merge the OGC filters stuff which is fine for me. 

Do we want  have some additional bug fix only time before we make the actual 
release - perhaps targeting the release for the end of Jan? I haven't looked in 
detail what blocking issues there are but from Mac point of view the GRASS 
processing tools still don’t work which is a bit of a blocker IMHO.

Regards

Tim

> On 02 Jan 2018, at 11:31, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> for the first time, a good part of developers are uncertain about the
> need to postpone the freeze. IMHO it is better to discuss about his in
> the list. From my point of view, we should postpone it only if there is
> a real, strong necessity, which does not seem the case now.
> Opinions?
> All the best.
> -- 
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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—







Tim Sutton

Co-founder: Kartoza
Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

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Skype: timlinux 
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[QGIS-Developer] QGIS 3.0 Soft Feature Freeze

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi all,
for the first time, a good part of developers are uncertain about the
need to postpone the freeze. IMHO it is better to discuss about his in
the list. From my point of view, we should postpone it only if there is
a real, strong necessity, which does not seem the case now.
Opinions?
All the best.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
___
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QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer