Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-22 Thread Gerardo Jimenez
I do not see the problem of using one list only. Besides, there is google 
translate...q

Gerardo Jiménez Delgado
Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Ciudad Universitaria s/n
Coyoacan 04510
Mexico City
Mexico

56 22 95 16

From: ouyang.le...@hotmail.com
To: zolt...@geograph.co.za; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:31:45 +
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?





Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:12:44 +0200
From: zolt...@geograph.co.za


  

  
  
On 2012/09/21 11:09,
  j.all...@agglo-paysflers.fr wrote:


Je suis
  également favorable à une seule liste
Én
is   \0/


But then do we have to make mandatory to post in all supported languages ? 
Du coup, on doit écrire dans toutes les langues ?
所以,是不是必须用每个语言写?
¿Entonces tenemos que escribir en todos los idiomas?

OK, the Spanish may be wrong and I am not up to the Hungarian challenge ;)

Regards,

Leyan
  

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread Zoltan Szecsei

On 2012/09/21 04:23, skampus wrote:

Agustin Lobo wrote

Hi!
I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
GIS understands English
and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
difficult is to find time
to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
opinions and ideas worldwide.
Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do
it.

Agus


+ 1
i totally agree with you

-1
I totally dis-agree.
Most open source users follow a number of lists, so spend a lot of time 
weeding out emails.

If you cannot understand a language, then there is point whatsoever.
My suggestion is, is that this list enforces total English, and that a 
Spanish (or other lists) be created as needed.


Although frowned upon, cross posting in this case (ie: to Spanish list 
in Spanish, and English list in [good or bad] English) is preferable as 
it will waste less time of the people who are willing to help, but can 
only understand English.


In short, if you want help, make the effort to make it easier and less 
annoying for those who are willing and able to help.
No one (to my knowledge) ever minds bad or broken English - in fact I 
have seen bad English users get better treatment because as a list, we 
are really willing to help. (Bad English posts seem to get less RTFM 
responses).


So, think of it this way:
You get a a post in velly bad Eastern English, but you are willing to help.
If that post was in kanji (or something), you would probably think wtf?

So, spare a thought for those on this list who are just as clueless 
about Hispanic and other languages.


What if I posted in Hungarian?

My 2c
Zoltan

--

===
Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
Western Cape, South Africa.

34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
===

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread Johan Nilsson
I agree to create at list even for Spanish, as mentioned the spanish
speking people can be booth in the english list and Spanish.

Johan Nilsson

2012/9/21 Zoltan Szecsei zolt...@geograph.co.za

 On 2012/09/21 04:23, skampus wrote:

 Agustin Lobo wrote

 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to
 do
 it.

 Agus


 + 1
 i totally agree with you

 -1
 I totally dis-agree.
 Most open source users follow a number of lists, so spend a lot of time
 weeding out emails.
 If you cannot understand a language, then there is point whatsoever.
 My suggestion is, is that this list enforces total English, and that a
 Spanish (or other lists) be created as needed.

 Although frowned upon, cross posting in this case (ie: to Spanish list in
 Spanish, and English list in [good or bad] English) is preferable as it
 will waste less time of the people who are willing to help, but can only
 understand English.

 In short, if you want help, make the effort to make it easier and less
 annoying for those who are willing and able to help.
 No one (to my knowledge) ever minds bad or broken English - in fact I have
 seen bad English users get better treatment because as a list, we are
 really willing to help. (Bad English posts seem to get less RTFM responses).

 So, think of it this way:
 You get a a post in velly bad Eastern English, but you are willing to help.
 If that post was in kanji (or something), you would probably think wtf?

 So, spare a thought for those on this list who are just as clueless about
 Hispanic and other languages.

 What if I posted in Hungarian?

 My 2c
 Zoltan


 --

 ==**=
 Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
 Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
 P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

 65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
 Western Cape, South Africa.

 34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

 Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
 Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
 ==**=

 __**_
 Qgis-user mailing list
 Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread Agustin Lobo
Disagree with what? I'm not saying people should use this list to post
in any language.
What I'm saying is that we are not that many and splitting by languages is going
to make things more complicated and might even reduce the
communication exchange, as many
interesting questions in Spanish, french, german etc will not be
followed by everyone. Not to say
to reduce the probabilities of getting a correct answer to a question.

Also, in my honest opinion, an elementary knowledge
of English is actually much more useful than an elementary knowledge
of GIS, and, at least for an Spanish speaker,
not very difficult. Nobody asks people to post messages in perfect
English, mine is actually quite poor
and everybody has always been kindly patient with that, going to the
core of the problems, not to the syntax.

But, as I said, if people want to do lists in different languages,
just go on. I'll miss their input to the general one.

Agus


On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Zoltan Szecsei zolt...@geograph.co.za wrote:
 On 2012/09/21 04:23, skampus wrote:

 Agustin Lobo wrote

 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to
 do
 it.

 Agus


 + 1
 i totally agree with you

 -1
 I totally dis-agree.
 Most open source users follow a number of lists, so spend a lot of time
 weeding out emails.
 If you cannot understand a language, then there is point whatsoever.
 My suggestion is, is that this list enforces total English, and that a
 Spanish (or other lists) be created as needed.

 Although frowned upon, cross posting in this case (ie: to Spanish list in
 Spanish, and English list in [good or bad] English) is preferable as it will
 waste less time of the people who are willing to help, but can only
 understand English.

 In short, if you want help, make the effort to make it easier and less
 annoying for those who are willing and able to help.
 No one (to my knowledge) ever minds bad or broken English - in fact I have
 seen bad English users get better treatment because as a list, we are
 really willing to help. (Bad English posts seem to get less RTFM responses).

 So, think of it this way:
 You get a a post in velly bad Eastern English, but you are willing to help.
 If that post was in kanji (or something), you would probably think wtf?

 So, spare a thought for those on this list who are just as clueless about
 Hispanic and other languages.

 What if I posted in Hungarian?

 My 2c
 Zoltan


 --

 ===
 Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
 Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
 P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

 65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
 Western Cape, South Africa.

 34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

 Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
 Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
 ===

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[Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread j . allain
 Bonjour,

Je suis également favorable à une seule liste ;)

Jonathan A

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread Zoltan Szecsei

On 2012/09/21 11:09, j.all...@agglo-paysflers.fr wrote:

Je suis également favorable à une seule liste

Én is   \0/

--

===
Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
Western Cape, South Africa.

34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
===

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-21 Thread leyan ouyang

Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:12:44 +0200
From: zolt...@geograph.co.za


  

  
  
On 2012/09/21 11:09,
  j.all...@agglo-paysflers.fr wrote:


Je suis
  également favorable à une seule liste
Én
is   \0/


But then do we have to make mandatory to post in all supported languages ? 
Du coup, on doit écrire dans toutes les langues ?
所以,是不是必须用每个语言写?
¿Entonces tenemos que escribir en todos los idiomas?

OK, the Spanish may be wrong and I am not up to the Hungarian challenge ;)

Regards,

Leyan
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Zoltan Szecsei

+1 as my vote for a separate (to english) language list.
Regards,
Zoltan


On 2012/09/19 18:55, Etienne Tourigny wrote:

Hi all,

I have been noticing recently an increase in Spanish emails to the
list. While I encourage all users to post their questions, I am
wondering aloud if it would not be better for everyone to add a
qgis-spanish mailing list?
There seem to be many emails in Spanish which go unanswered, so maybe
a Spanish list would be more beneficial.

On the qgis mailing list page there is a link to the german-speaking
FOSSGIS-Talk-Liste - perhaps it would be sufficient to include a list
to the osgeo spanish list ?

Etienne
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===
Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
Western Cape, South Africa.

34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
===

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Agustin Lobo
Hi!
I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
GIS understands English
and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
difficult is to find time
to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
opinions and ideas worldwide.
Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do it.

Agus

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Germán Carrillo
carrillo.ger...@gmail.com wrote:
 I also consider this is a good idea.

 Regards,

 Germán

 2012/9/20, Zoltan Szecsei zolt...@geograph.co.za:
 +1 as my vote for a separate (to english) language list.
 Regards,
 Zoltan


 On 2012/09/19 18:55, Etienne Tourigny wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have been noticing recently an increase in Spanish emails to the
 list. While I encourage all users to post their questions, I am
 wondering aloud if it would not be better for everyone to add a
 qgis-spanish mailing list?
 There seem to be many emails in Spanish which go unanswered, so maybe
 a Spanish list would be more beneficial.

 On the qgis mailing list page there is a link to the german-speaking
 FOSSGIS-Talk-Liste - perhaps it would be sufficient to include a list
 to the osgeo spanish list ?

 Etienne
 ___
 Qgis-user mailing list
 Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user


 --

 ===
 Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
 Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
 P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

 65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
 Western Cape, South Africa.

 34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

 Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
 Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
 ===

 ___
 Qgis-user mailing list
 Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user



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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread leyan ouyang

That everyone speaks English a very broad assumption, and one which does not 
hold true in China at least ... The lack of internationalization (interface, 
documentation, community) is one of the major obstacles for my QGis proselytism 
here. 

Additionally, having separate lists will not take you more time, you just have 
to subscribe to both and it is the same for you. 

Anyway, I support the creation of the list ! I may even join to try to freshen 
up my Spanish ;)

Leyan

 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:23:59 +0200
 From: alobolis...@gmail.com
 To: carrillo.ger...@gmail.com
 CC: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
 Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?
 
 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do it.
 
 Agus
 
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Germán Carrillo
 [...] Virtually anybody working/learning GIS understands English [...]

They might understand technical terms (layer, vector, spatial
selection, etc.) for sure, but not English.

Once a regular user from Latin America wants to ask a question
involving a use case or a simple description of an issue, problems may
arise. We have seen it already, the issue is not described properly,
and therefore, nobody in the mailing list can actually help, even if
they are willing to.

Regards,

Germán


2012/9/20, leyan ouyang ouyang.le...@hotmail.com:

 That everyone speaks English a very broad assumption, and one which does not
 hold true in China at least ... The lack of internationalization (interface,
 documentation, community) is one of the major obstacles for my QGis
 proselytism here.

 Additionally, having separate lists will not take you more time, you just
 have to subscribe to both and it is the same for you.

 Anyway, I support the creation of the list ! I may even join to try to
 freshen up my Spanish ;)

 Leyan

 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:23:59 +0200
 From: alobolis...@gmail.com
 To: carrillo.ger...@gmail.com
 CC: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
 Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do
 it.

 Agus

   


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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Yves Jacolin (free)

Hello,

I agree with you Germán. That's why we have some forum/ML in french 
langage: GeoRezo (see http://georezo.net/forum/viewforum.php?id=37) and 
Forumsig are the main one.


Y.
PS : I am one of the contributor of GeoRezo portal.

Le 20/09/2012 12:14, Germán Carrillo a écrit :

[...] Virtually anybody working/learning GIS understands English [...]


They might understand technical terms (layer, vector, spatial
selection, etc.) for sure, but not English.

Once a regular user from Latin America wants to ask a question
involving a use case or a simple description of an issue, problems may
arise. We have seen it already, the issue is not described properly,
and therefore, nobody in the mailing list can actually help, even if
they are willing to.

Regards,

Germán


2012/9/20, leyan ouyang ouyang.le...@hotmail.com:


That everyone speaks English a very broad assumption, and one which does not
hold true in China at least ... The lack of internationalization (interface,
documentation, community) is one of the major obstacles for my QGis
proselytism here.

Additionally, having separate lists will not take you more time, you just
have to subscribe to both and it is the same for you.

Anyway, I support the creation of the list ! I may even join to try to
freshen up my Spanish ;)

Leyan


Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:23:59 +0200
From: alobolis...@gmail.com
To: carrillo.ger...@gmail.com
CC: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

Hi!
I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
GIS understands English
and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
difficult is to find time
to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
opinions and ideas worldwide.
Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do
it.

Agus









--
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Tim Sutton
Hi Agustin

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Agustin Lobo alobolis...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do it.


The number of spanish posts to the list would seem to suggest that
there are at least some users out there who are not comfortable
writing their messages in english. My opinion would be to go with a
new list. Of course it is not mandatory and spanish speakers are
welcome to participate in either or both lists.

Regards

Tim

 Agus

 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Germán Carrillo
 carrillo.ger...@gmail.com wrote:
 I also consider this is a good idea.

 Regards,

 Germán

 2012/9/20, Zoltan Szecsei zolt...@geograph.co.za:
 +1 as my vote for a separate (to english) language list.
 Regards,
 Zoltan


 On 2012/09/19 18:55, Etienne Tourigny wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have been noticing recently an increase in Spanish emails to the
 list. While I encourage all users to post their questions, I am
 wondering aloud if it would not be better for everyone to add a
 qgis-spanish mailing list?
 There seem to be many emails in Spanish which go unanswered, so maybe
 a Spanish list would be more beneficial.

 On the qgis mailing list page there is a link to the german-speaking
 FOSSGIS-Talk-Liste - perhaps it would be sufficient to include a list
 to the osgeo spanish list ?

 Etienne
 ___
 Qgis-user mailing list
 Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user


 --

 ===
 Zoltan Szecsei PrGISc [PGP0031]
 Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
 P.O. Box 7, Muizenberg 7950, South Africa.

 65 Main Road, Muizenberg 7945
 Western Cape, South Africa.

 34° 6'16.35S 18°28'5.62E

 Tel: +27-21-7884897  Mobile: +27-83-6004028
 Fax: +27-86-6115323 www.geograph.co.za
 ===

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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Ramon Andiñach
I like the idea, but would also be wondering if there is enough helpers to 
provide answers. 

Even if there aren't enough helpers for the list, I did like the approach where 
the question was asked in both Spanish and English in the one email. 
(Much more than the same question in two emails)

This seems like a system that would work in other situations where people 
aren't comfortable in English and do not have a separate list. 

-ramon.

On 20/09/2012, at 16:54, Germán Carrillo carrillo.ger...@gmail.com wrote:

 I also consider this is a good idea.
 
 Regards,
 
 Germán
 
 2012/9/20, Zoltan Szecsei zolt...@geograph.co.za:
 +1 as my vote for a separate (to english) language list.
 Regards,
 Zoltan
 
 
 On 2012/09/19 18:55, Etienne Tourigny wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I have been noticing recently an increase in Spanish emails to the
 list. While I encourage all users to post their questions, I am
 wondering aloud if it would not be better for everyone to add a
 qgis-spanish mailing list?
 There seem to be many emails in Spanish which go unanswered, so maybe
 a Spanish list would be more beneficial.
 
 On the qgis mailing list page there is a link to the german-speaking
 FOSSGIS-Talk-Liste - perhaps it would be sufficient to include a list
 to the osgeo spanish list ?
 
 Etienne
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread Pablo Schweitzer
Hi
I can understand english but to describe the issues I need use the google
translator. May be a option is put a tag in the mail subject with the
language used if this is not english.

Saludos

Pablo


2012/9/20 Germán Carrillo carrillo.ger...@gmail.com

  [...] Virtually anybody working/learning GIS understands English [...]

 They might understand technical terms (layer, vector, spatial
 selection, etc.) for sure, but not English.

 Once a regular user from Latin America wants to ask a question
 involving a use case or a simple description of an issue, problems may
 arise. We have seen it already, the issue is not described properly,
 and therefore, nobody in the mailing list can actually help, even if
 they are willing to.

 Regards,

 Germán


 2012/9/20, leyan ouyang ouyang.le...@hotmail.com:
 
  That everyone speaks English a very broad assumption, and one which does
 not
  hold true in China at least ... The lack of internationalization
 (interface,
  documentation, community) is one of the major obstacles for my QGis
  proselytism here.
 
  Additionally, having separate lists will not take you more time, you just
  have to subscribe to both and it is the same for you.
 
  Anyway, I support the creation of the list ! I may even join to try to
  freshen up my Spanish ;)
 
  Leyan
 
  Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:23:59 +0200
  From: alobolis...@gmail.com
  To: carrillo.ger...@gmail.com
  CC: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
  Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?
 
  Hi!
  I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
  GIS understands English
  and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
  difficult is to find time
  to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
  opinions and ideas worldwide.
  Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to
 do
  it.
 
  Agus
 
 


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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-20 Thread skampus
Agustin Lobo wrote
 Hi!
 I do not think this is a good idea. Virtually anybody working/learning
 GIS understands English
 and there are many advantages on keeping one single list, as the most
 difficult is to find time
 to answer questions. And there is the added value of exchanging
 opinions and ideas worldwide.
 Obviously this is not an obstacle for people wanting a separate list to do
 it.
 
 Agus


+ 1
i totally agree with you



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[Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-19 Thread Etienne Tourigny
Hi all,

I have been noticing recently an increase in Spanish emails to the
list. While I encourage all users to post their questions, I am
wondering aloud if it would not be better for everyone to add a
qgis-spanish mailing list?
There seem to be many emails in Spanish which go unanswered, so maybe
a Spanish list would be more beneficial.

On the qgis mailing list page there is a link to the german-speaking
FOSSGIS-Talk-Liste - perhaps it would be sufficient to include a list
to the osgeo spanish list ?

Etienne
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