Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
> On July 9, 2016 at 5:41 PM Lee Privett wrote: > > > There is an interesting bit on copyright that's list four things relating > to Software. One covers the code as literary, the other covers the output > from code as far as I can ascertain. > > The code is a literary work > The on-screen display could be an artistic work > The soundtracks are musical works > Moving images can be protected as a film and so on > > It goes on to cover non-literal copying of software, full article here. > http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/copyright-protection-for-software/ > > For me there is no question, it's copyrighted unless there evidence that is > not. Qliberator is a case in point, it's copyright protected until both > authors state it can be public domain. > > Now it is interesting for a discussion perspective about non-literal > copying if a protected programme is hacked and the software no longer has > its anti copying protection then effectively it's not the same software > anymore. > I am fairly certain that just bypassing the copy protection would fail the substantial parts test (and any of hte other tests) as it would be easy to prove on a byte by byte comparison that there were only very limited changes to the original code. Arguably it would be harder to prove that some of my MKII software breached copyright under these rules (had I not originally obtained permission) - because the original code can no longer easily be proven - eg, substantial changes to D-Day and War In the East, which were originally SuperBASIC programs, then I re-wrote large sections in native machine code, added a large amount of my own code and then compiled them in Turbo - although here there is the issue of access to sources could easily be proven, as the sources (SuperBASIC) were provided in the originals. I am not sure whether Nemesis and possibly some of the other Talent adventures would be viewed in this light, as they were written in Quill, so had to be de-compiled, changed and then re-compiled as a Q-liberated program - leaving very little to compare apart from the actual text on screen. That said, both myself and Richard Alexander (when my programs were published by CGH Services) always felt that it was only fair to pay royalties on sales to the original copyright holders, or to offer my version as an upgrade to people who proved they had the original. Rich Mellor RWAP Software www.rwapsoftware.co.uk www.sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks
On Thursday 7 July 2016, 21:29:04, Rich Mellor (RWAP) wrote : > Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure if > she > had any more involvement in C-Port. I also emailed Dave Walker, but no > response > from either Hi Rich, I also wrote to Shirley, but had no response. This morning, I tried ringing her on the number she gave in the C-Fix user manual from 1992, but this was unobtainable. Are you still in contact with Freddy Vaccha? Perhaps he might know something. What I would like to do is to get a copy of the source SuperBASIC code for both C-Port and C-Fix. The idea being to update them so that they can work fully with modern day emulators, and also to cure some bugs and generally improve them. I have actually managed to use C-Port with some success. Recently I have C-Ported a 58k SBASIC program into Cee without any problems. I did of course have to keep on changing the code until it finally Cported. The resulting Cee code certainly needed some tinkering with before it would C68 compile. The program was a version of the Travelling Salesman program, which I have been working on with Steve Poole. In my opinion, C-Port is far better than its reputation, but is certainly in need of some improvement. The C-Fix addition is very useful, however it is not complete. The numeric array bases have not been treated. If however the source is unavailable, then how about reverse engineering?Derek, have you thought any more about your idea of reverse engineering Turbo? I would be willing to work with you jointly on this. I am well acquainted with the Turbo parser and understand how it works. If you can regenerate the pseudo-code for C-Port, I am sure I could regenerate the SuperBASIC code from there. What we could end up with is a SuperBASIC program that perhaps works, but would be totally unreadable, since we would not know the original variable names used. We would just have to guess at how it works. But this would be a start. This may take some while to complete, but the more time spent on it, the better it would become. About the legal aspect, I would agree this may be illegal - if we go by the letter of the law. But if we go by the spirit of the law, this may be another matter. We would be producing something that would be of benefit to the whole QL community. I am certain the authors of Turbo / Cport / C-Fix would welcome our contributions. We may not have to go down this road. Who knows - perhaps Freddy Vaccha can come up with the goods - and supply the SuperBASIC sources. If anybody knows him, can you please contact him and ask. Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update
Apologies, I left the old link in. Please try again, it should work now. Dilwyn -Original Message- From: de...@q40.de Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2016 8:54 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update Hi Dilwyn, I have downloaded the new inversion of Learcad. The web page says version 7.40, but the file downloaded is version 7.37. Regards DerekOn 9 Jul 2016 18:35, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Version 7.40 of Malcolm Lear's PCB Design software is now available free from my website. The author says: "Many changes and bug fixes since last release. Most important improvement is through hole finger pads that can support slots. Also now supports filled polygon pads thus allowing any shape or rotation." Download it from the Graphics page on my website: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/graphics/index.html Dilwyn. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update
Thanks, I'll see if I can correct it now. Dilwyn -Original Message- From: de...@q40.de Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2016 8:54 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update Hi Dilwyn, I have downloaded the new inversion of Learcad. The web page says version 7.40, but the file downloaded is version 7.37. Regards DerekOn 9 Jul 2016 18:35, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Version 7.40 of Malcolm Lear's PCB Design software is now available free from my website. The author says: "Many changes and bug fixes since last release. Most important improvement is through hole finger pads that can support slots. Also now supports filled polygon pads thus allowing any shape or rotation." Download it from the Graphics page on my website: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/graphics/index.html Dilwyn. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update
Hi Dilwyn, I have downloaded the new inversion of Learcad. The web page says version 7.40, but the file downloaded is version 7.37. Regards DerekOn 9 Jul 2016 18:35, Dilwyn Jones wrote: > > Version 7.40 of Malcolm Lear's PCB Design software is now available free from > my website. > > The author says: > > "Many changes and bug fixes since last release. Most important improvement is > through hole finger pads that can support slots. Also now supports filled > polygon pads thus allowing any shape or rotation." > > Download it from the Graphics page on my website: > http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/graphics/index.html > > Dilwyn. > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] QL Forum online chat tonight
We're on the QL Forum online chat once more tonight and would be pleased if any of you would like to join us during the evening to discuss anything vaguely QL related (politics, religion, cars, film, tv, etc also all tolerated in small doses!) To join us, just go onto www.qlforum.co.uk/mibbit.php and enter your name or nickname when asked and join in the fun. Alternatively, members can log onto the forum and click on the Online Chat link. Dilwyn Jones - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update
Version 7.40 of Malcolm Lear's PCB Design software is now available free from my website. The author says: "Many changes and bug fixes since last release. Most important improvement is through hole finger pads that can support slots. Also now supports filled polygon pads thus allowing any shape or rotation." Download it from the Graphics page on my website: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/graphics/index.html Dilwyn. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
There is an interesting bit on copyright that's list four things relating to Software. One covers the code as literary, the other covers the output from code as far as I can ascertain. The code is a literary work The on-screen display could be an artistic work The soundtracks are musical works Moving images can be protected as a film and so on It goes on to cover non-literal copying of software, full article here. http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/copyright-protection-for-software/ For me there is no question, it's copyrighted unless there evidence that is not. Qliberator is a case in point, it's copyright protected until both authors state it can be public domain. Now it is interesting for a discussion perspective about non-literal copying if a protected programme is hacked and the software no longer has its anti copying protection then effectively it's not the same software anymore. On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 at 12:51, Colin McKay wrote: > When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program > lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be > confirmed? > > Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person > produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that > copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim > copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word > 'copyright' on an introductory page. > > Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would > profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts > for > infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future > possible > sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling > of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. > > I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I > spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of > its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the > steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very > good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously > deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They > are written by insiders for the use of insiders. > > As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of > the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable > the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day > coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts > ideosyncrasies. > > Colin > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of > ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com > Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39 > To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com > Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17 > > Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to > ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservation > Project > (Norman Dunbar) >2. Re: Withdrawal of my personalSoftware > Preservation > Project > (Norman Dunbar) >3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project > (Derek Stewart) >4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project > (Richard Howe) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100 > From: Norman Dunbar > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > PreservationProject > Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Still a verb. It's an action. > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe > > I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a > Jock like me! > > > Cheers, > Norm. > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100 > From: Norman Dunbar > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of mypersonalSoftware > PreservationProject > Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Whoops! > > To infringe, verb. > An infringement noun. > Apologies. > > Cheers,
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
> On July 9, 2016 at 4:26 PM Wolf wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would > > profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for > > infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible > > sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling > > of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. > > Think: > > - statutory damages > - punitive damages > > depending on where you sue... > > OK, 'nuff said on that subject. > Wolfgang > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List Copyright exists as soon as someone creates an item. They are the owner of the rights to that item - be it a physical item, some program code, a painting or even a turn of phrase (this is why it has been generally referred to in legislation as intellectual property). Many people originally proved copyright by posting a copy of an item to themselves, so that it is dated by a third party in a sealed envelope - just in case they ever needed to prove that they created the item before someone else. There used to be some countries which demanded registration of copyright but since countries signed up to the Berne convention, they all agreed to do away with this, but most countries retain the ability to voluntarily register copyright if you wish (similar to posting a copy to yourself). As for ever bringing court action - most countries will actually prosecute the person on your behalf, as it is seen as a criminal offence under international law; so there is no question of cost for the copyright holder. Does QL software have copyright messages? The answer is a resounding YES - out of all the stuff I have preserved, there is probably less than 5% which has no statement in the code as to copyright, or who wrote the program. It is generally clearly stipulated in the boot program, loading screen, manual or the code itself. As to what you do with the stuff which has nothing to indicate copyright - who knows what the intention of the author was It could have been donated to the Quanta library, in which case, the terms of their constitution stipulate that the library was available to members only. It could have been a program which appeared in QL World / QL User - which paid for the program listings, so the rights may well have been transferred to the magazine publisher (all depending on the terms of the submission and who the publisher was at the time). Rich Mellor RWAP Software www.rwapsoftware.co.uk www.sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
Hi, Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. Think: - statutory damages - punitive damages depending on where you sue... OK, 'nuff said on that subject. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
Hi Colin, When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be confirmed? No it can't. Very broadly speaking, if someone writes a piece of software, then someone has a copyright to it - automatically. (and, yes I'm aware that there are hems and haws and provided this and maybe that with the above sentence, but as a general statement it is true.) WOlfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be confirmed? Define "QL system"? Don't understand that, unless what they meant was that as soon as you made a program available in some way, widespread piracy meant it was inevitable that it would quickly become commonly copied by one and all. Not a remark about the legal situation, but a scenario which you could perhaps see happening in practice. Dilwyn - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
Hi Colin, If I read this correctly, you say any software installed on a QL system is public domain. That does sound silly, do you include SMSQ/E... How many copies of SMSQ/E was copied! Regards DerekOn 9 Jul 2016 12:51, Colin McKay wrote: > > When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program > lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be > confirmed? > > Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person > produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that > copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim > copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word > 'copyright' on an introductory page. > > Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would > profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for > infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible > sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling > of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. > > I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I > spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of > its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the > steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very > good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously > deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They > are written by insiders for the use of insiders. > > As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of > the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable > the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day > coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts > ideosyncrasies. > > Colin > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of > ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com > Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39 > To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com > Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17 > > Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to > ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation > Project > (Norman Dunbar) > 2. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation > Project > (Norman Dunbar) > 3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project > (Derek Stewart) > 4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project > (Richard Howe) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100 > From: Norman Dunbar > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Still a verb. It's an action. > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe > > I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a > Jock like me! > > > Cheers, > Norm. > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100 > From: Norman Dunbar > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Whoops! > > To infringe, verb. > An infringement noun. > Apologies. > > Cheers, > Norm. > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:41:13 +0100 > From: Derek Stewart > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > Message-ID: <5780aa99.9000...@q40.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Richard, > > I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review > in QL Wolrd. > > I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. > I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. > > Regards, > > Derek > > On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: > > Hi > >
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservation Project
What the whole thing boils down to is probably: Do I care if someone is blocking my driveway? Of course you do - it's directly affecting you. Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway? Of course you should - they will probably fight and make your life a misery (or damage your car while fighting) Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway that hasn't been used by them for 25 years? Turns out the blocking car was your neighbour's all along who you had not bothered to speak to for some time, and without you knowing your neighbour was growing and supplying drugs, the car "blocking" the driveway was there to hinder police getting in. Oh and they put the registered address for the car down as yours, so you got into trouble when they were eventually caught. Result for us all, one less QLer because you chose to disregard something you wrongly thought was irrelevant.. In all but the first case, I don't - It's none of my business. And in the last case I'd find it a bit ridiculous if I did. OK, my writing above is almost completely false, totally ridiculous and designed only to make you read it to see where it was going and if it was relevant. So, just because it seems irrelevant, don't dismiss it out of hand. (Actually, number 2 happened to a friend of mine some years ago, so not that irrelevant). Dilwyn - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12585 - Release Date: 07/09/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
Yes, why Fred Toussi does not make this program freeware and why he does not make the way public, how T87 saves its documents... I will never understand. Noone sells it today, nor does anyone develops driver for it. Is this the way? Surely not. Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Colin McKay" I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They are written by insiders for the use of insiders. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright
Colin McKay wrote: > As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of > the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable > the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day > coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts > ideosyncrasies. For me the main factor is: Who is writing QL software at all? Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
What the whole thing boils down to is probably: Do I care if someone is blocking my driveway? Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway? Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway that hasn't been used by them for 25 years? In all but the first case, I don't - It's none of my business. And in the last case I'd find it a bit ridiculous if I did. Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] Copyright
When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be confirmed? Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word 'copyright' on an introductory page. Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They are written by insiders for the use of insiders. As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts ideosyncrasies. Colin -Original Message- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39 To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17 Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com You can reach the person managing the list at ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservation Project (Norman Dunbar) 2. Re: Withdrawal of my personalSoftwarePreservation Project (Norman Dunbar) 3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Derek Stewart) 4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Richard Howe) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100 From: Norman Dunbar To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Still a verb. It's an action. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a Jock like me! Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100 From: Norman Dunbar To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of mypersonalSoftware PreservationProject Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Whoops! To infringe, verb. An infringement noun. Apologies. Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:41:13 +0100 From: Derek Stewart To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Message-ID: <5780aa99.9000...@q40.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Richard, I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review in QL Wolrd. I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. Regards, Derek On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: > Hi > > I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread > caught my attention. > > Issues: > 1. Integrity. > 2. Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls > themselves. > 3. Copyright. > > 1. Integrity. > Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is > 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to > projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law > are ignorant o
Re: [Ql-Users] Master Spy
I see, after all those years, I nearly do not understand my own code, so have to ask Marcel to correct a few bugs in conjunction with SMSQ/E. A schame, isn't it ;-) Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Richard Howe" No assembler work though! ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Master Spy
Hi Derek I am developing an unusual website. It's slow going but great to be creative again after so many years troubleshooting endless PC problems. I reckon another few months should see it roadworthy. No assembler work though! Best wishes Richard Howe -Original Message- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of de...@q40.de Sent: 09 July 2016 11:48 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Master Spy Hi Richard, Do you still write any software these days? Regards Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Master Spy
Hi Richard, Do you still write any software these days? Regards Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
Thanks Derek I am pleased you found it useful, and pleased you bought it from Tom (last name Dolezal). I remember TK Computerware as a consistent supporter and retailer of QL and Z88 products at the time. Tom worked in Ashford, Kent but I think he moved in the 90s. When credit card fraud began to take hold. He 'sold' a Z88 to a fraudster who later phoned him and boasted about the fraud. Wolfgang suggested 'some people are just evil'. Well that kind of deliberate torture comes close. On a positive note I did get some fraudsters arrested one time, they were under 18 apparently. Their leader had the sense to leg it but must have had a few sleepless nights. Still, that's another story. Best wishes Richard Howe -Original Message- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Derek Stewart Sent: 09 July 2016 08:41 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Hi Richard, I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review in QL Wolrd. I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. Regards, Derek On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: > Hi > > I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread > caught my attention. > > Issues: > 1. Integrity. > 2. Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls > themselves. > 3. Copyright. > > 1. Integrity. > Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is > 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to > projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law > are ignorant of this, their minds commonly lacking respect for others. > Those who simply observe the law have missed the point. > > 2. Letting go. > When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to > recognise them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say > 'bye'. It's easy to forgive them because they are obviously too > ignorant to dig themselves out of the pit they have dug for > themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind will lead to your poor > health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over their negative > words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will dismiss them and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls. > Letting go is an important healing principle. > > 3. Copyright. > I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around. > However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in > them, and I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined > my current project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a > copyright item and this is wise. Special licences can also widen the > availability for users while protecting essentials for the author. > Perhaps I should mention that thirty years ago I wrote the Spy and Master Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc. > Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I > haven't sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember > all the profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature > of the game sometimes. > > Kind regards > Richard Howe > > -Original Message- > From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of > Rich Mellor > Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32 > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > > On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Just my 2 cents worth. >> >> As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed) >> sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent >> take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that >> apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent. >> >> It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just >> unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health >> problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here >> shows that people here do support you. >> >> Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why >> this causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best >> strategy to adopt is to ignore the >> who bring these attacks - and go on as before ? >> >> I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending >> emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the >> author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any >> contact with them. >> >> >> The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should >> be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes, >> in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software >> **should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my >> commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get arou
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
Hi Richard, I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review in QL Wolrd. I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. Regards, Derek On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: Hi I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread caught my attention. Issues: 1. Integrity. 2. Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls themselves. 3. Copyright. 1. Integrity. Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law are ignorant of this, their minds commonly lacking respect for others. Those who simply observe the law have missed the point. 2. Letting go. When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to recognise them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say 'bye'. It's easy to forgive them because they are obviously too ignorant to dig themselves out of the pit they have dug for themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind will lead to your poor health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over their negative words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will dismiss them and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls. Letting go is an important healing principle. 3. Copyright. I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around. However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in them, and I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined my current project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a copyright item and this is wise. Special licences can also widen the availability for users while protecting essentials for the author. Perhaps I should mention that thirty years ago I wrote the Spy and Master Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc. Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I haven't sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember all the profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature of the game sometimes. Kind regards Richard Howe -Original Message- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Rich Mellor Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Hi, Just my 2 cents worth. As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed) sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent. It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here shows that people here do support you. Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why this causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best strategy to adopt is to ignore the who bring these attacks - and go on as before ? I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any contact with them. The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes, in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software **should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get around to it. However, the decision to do so is mine and nobody else's. Likewise, the decision for others to do so with their software is theirs. Do I think that that old software should be released for free, like Marcel does ? Sure ! Would I, like Marcel, refuse to pay a cent for any old game ? Yup : if it isn't free, I don't even look at it. But I don't see what's wrong with copyright owners holding on to their property, nor with Rich trying to sell some software and make some money from it. I do not understand the mindset of people who believe that these things MUST NECESSARILY be free and if they aren't, then the copyright owners and traders are evil, and fair game for any sort of abuse (I'm not accusing anybody on this list of thinking that way!). Is the fact that some copyright owners try to make a buck off their software in any way nefarious or detrimental to the QL scene ? In other words, do we loose users because of it ? I don't believe so. I frankly fail to believe that someone new to the QL scene would look at it, look at the software available, think < hey that's a game I must have > and then go away when he discovers that the game is sti