Re: [Ql-Users] QL Workshop in Manchester - 26th & 27th September 2015
On 29/05/15 08:59, Rich Mellor wrote: NEMQLUG have asked if I could promote a QL workshop which they are running in Manchester on the weekend of 26th and 27th September. Everyone is invited to attend - would be great if Paul could come along with some QL-SD interfaces for sale (for example). I am hoping that I will be fit enough to attend also :D More details appear on my website: www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/nemqlug-Sep2015-qlevent.jpg Would of really liked to have come since I've not been to one in years and years however I'm not available that weekend. Is any one else doing one on another date. John Alexander ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL Decompiler
> On 28 Jun 2015, at 14:22, Derek Stewart mailto:de...@q40.de>> > wrote: > > > One question with regards to the temporary file that is created by the > Parser_task: > > a) Is this the input file to the Codegen_task Yes > b) Do we know the format of the file It is known. In fact there is a program which decodes it in a readable form. When I alter TURBO I use it to check that the output is what I expect. However, this program is not generally available. I am not sure whether the format of the intermediate code is available either. Also, I think that the location of the intermediate file can vary. It is obviously available to CODEGEN_TASK but not otherwise easily accessible by the general public! George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] QL Decompiler
Hi, I have been reading the Turbo manuals again, just refreshing my mind and the Turbo operation. I must say it was a quite a nice easy read. One question with regards to the temporary file that is created by the Parser_task: a) Is this the input file to the Codegen_task b) Do we know the format of the file Regards, Derek On 27/06/15 06:36, Wolf wrote: Hi, Probably George Gwilt is best suited to answer that. Hmm! I seem to have forgotten most of what I knew. But you probably still know more about it than anybody else... Parser_task analyses the SuperBASIC program and produces a list of calls to blocks of code, or templates, which do simple things like "print a comma" or "go to this procedure". Codegen_task reads this intermediate code and produces the final executable program. By analysing the threaded code inside this it might be possible to reconstruct something like the intermediate code which was the output from Parser_task. The next step would be to work back from that to a set of SuperBASIC instructions. Not a trivial task from the sound of it What about using external keywords bound into the program? Either the keyword has to be present at runtime or its code has to have been loaded into the compiled program. In either case there may be difficulty in pinpointing what the keyword is so that it can form part of the decompiled program. Yup! The version of the Turbo Library used should be recorded in the compiled program. But the templates could be different for each version? Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
Ok, you are right ;-). It was just George and Marcel, sorry. Anyway I can send them to Dilwyn directly. Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Rich Mellor" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 So far as I know I only have the files which are on the Sinclair QL Homepage - certainly I can't see anything on my hard disk! Rich On 28/06/2015 10:51, Ralf Reköndt wrote: Rich Mellor has the complete package, as has George Gwilt. So maybe one of them can send this to Dilwyn. Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 Hi Ralf, Thank you for the clarification, I remember in the early 1990s Martin sent me an message via FidoNET: QL.INIT indocating that the WIN device could be included in the DEVLINK process, by patching the TK3 file the the WIN device. This allowed the WIN to have TK3 style directories, at that time I used Minerva, as SMSQ/E was not stable at that time. I will see if I can find the echomail message and post it here. With regards to the Manual, there is a manual in the archive with the ROM. I have just noticed that the TK3_ROM is a rom image, so LRESPR will not load it, you have use EPROM_LOAD. I have a Digital Precision Disk of TK3, which has a LRESPRable file, I will send this to Dilwyn, since it id freeware now. Seems all the QL software I have bought is free now... Regards, Derek On 28/06/15 09:16, Ralf Reköndt wrote: No, they aren't "Hard Devices". Martin has developed an idea from me a s follows: I had quite a few games on one flp. And I wanted to put them in a kind of directory, say Game1_, Game2_ and so on. That was long before TT's hard directories, lets call them "TK2 directories", just an addition to the filename. As the different game programs can't cope with this addition in the filename, I asked Martin to make a solution to that, so I can (of course with TK2) DDOWN Game1_ LRUN BOOT And the games code finds all of its files, TK3 pushed the addition GAME1_ to all of its file operations. That worked under SuperBASIC and under machine code level. As I said, all without TT's hard directories. It is not guaranteed, that it will work with that. Martin links all drectory devide drivers during initialisation of TK3 (or DEVLINK), except the device WIN, as this should always do his own stuff. A problem is, that Martin uses some kind of free places of system variables, which TT later used on his own, although Martin has sent documentation about that early enough to TT. One can read in the SMSQ/E version documentation, that from one version, TT has disabled the intialisaton of TK3. So things may go wrong. There were times in the 1980s, where not all programmers are loved. Cheers...Ralf I hope, to make it a bit clearer. - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
So far as I know I only have the files which are on the Sinclair QL Homepage - certainly I can't see anything on my hard disk! Rich On 28/06/2015 10:51, Ralf Reköndt wrote: Rich Mellor has the complete package, as has George Gwilt. So maybe one of them can send this to Dilwyn. Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 Hi Ralf, Thank you for the clarification, I remember in the early 1990s Martin sent me an message via FidoNET: QL.INIT indocating that the WIN device could be included in the DEVLINK process, by patching the TK3 file the the WIN device. This allowed the WIN to have TK3 style directories, at that time I used Minerva, as SMSQ/E was not stable at that time. I will see if I can find the echomail message and post it here. With regards to the Manual, there is a manual in the archive with the ROM. I have just noticed that the TK3_ROM is a rom image, so LRESPR will not load it, you have use EPROM_LOAD. I have a Digital Precision Disk of TK3, which has a LRESPRable file, I will send this to Dilwyn, since it id freeware now. Seems all the QL software I have bought is free now... Regards, Derek On 28/06/15 09:16, Ralf Reköndt wrote: No, they aren't "Hard Devices". Martin has developed an idea from me a s follows: I had quite a few games on one flp. And I wanted to put them in a kind of directory, say Game1_, Game2_ and so on. That was long before TT's hard directories, lets call them "TK2 directories", just an addition to the filename. As the different game programs can't cope with this addition in the filename, I asked Martin to make a solution to that, so I can (of course with TK2) DDOWN Game1_ LRUN BOOT And the games code finds all of its files, TK3 pushed the addition GAME1_ to all of its file operations. That worked under SuperBASIC and under machine code level. As I said, all without TT's hard directories. It is not guaranteed, that it will work with that. Martin links all drectory devide drivers during initialisation of TK3 (or DEVLINK), except the device WIN, as this should always do his own stuff. A problem is, that Martin uses some kind of free places of system variables, which TT later used on his own, although Martin has sent documentation about that early enough to TT. One can read in the SMSQ/E version documentation, that from one version, TT has disabled the intialisaton of TK3. So things may go wrong. There were times in the 1980s, where not all programmers are loved. Cheers...Ralf I hope, to make it a bit clearer. - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
> On 28 Jun 2015, at 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: > > In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. > After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes > the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without > joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? I used the original TK3 but had to cut out some of the commands which, as I remember, had a bad effect on something like win drives. So, I have my own personal TK3. I offered this to Freddie Vaccha but I think he was not interested. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
Hi Derek, as the source code of TK3 is also freeware (as I have a long termed agreement with Martin: "Do with it, whatever you want") , it should be quite easy to modify the code, so it should also run under SMSQ/E. I also do not understand, why TT does not have reported problems of TK3 with SMSQ/E to Martin, instead just rejected the code to work. But that's another part of a few bad stories. Be aware, that Martin has always used his self-modified QDOSx_INC files. I have them (as I have nearly all of Martin's stuff), same with the Perfect Pointer Tools (PPT). You are quite right, that Dilwyn's ZIP just contains the ROM file and the manual. There were also a RAM-based version. I am not sure, why the PPT has all its sources, TK3 not. The source files plus the INCludes should be a part of the TK3 distribution, whithout them, it is not possible to reassemble the code. The assembler used is the standard(!) GST Macro Assembler and Linker, but it should work with QMac anyway. The DP version of TK3 is from an old sell-all-my-stuff from Martin to DP. This version is completely unmodified (as far as I know, Freddy has told me), except that Freddy has changed PEEK$ and POKE$ to DEEK$ and DOKE$, as these procedures clashed with another kind of toolkit from DP. Though I do not know, which toolkit. Rich Mellor has the complete package, as has George Gwilt. So maybe one of them can send this to Dilwyn. Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 Hi Ralf, Thank you for the clarification, I remember in the early 1990s Martin sent me an message via FidoNET: QL.INIT indocating that the WIN device could be included in the DEVLINK process, by patching the TK3 file the the WIN device. This allowed the WIN to have TK3 style directories, at that time I used Minerva, as SMSQ/E was not stable at that time. I will see if I can find the echomail message and post it here. With regards to the Manual, there is a manual in the archive with the ROM. I have just noticed that the TK3_ROM is a rom image, so LRESPR will not load it, you have use EPROM_LOAD. I have a Digital Precision Disk of TK3, which has a LRESPRable file, I will send this to Dilwyn, since it id freeware now. Seems all the QL software I have bought is free now... Regards, Derek On 28/06/15 09:16, Ralf Reköndt wrote: No, they aren't "Hard Devices". Martin has developed an idea from me a s follows: I had quite a few games on one flp. And I wanted to put them in a kind of directory, say Game1_, Game2_ and so on. That was long before TT's hard directories, lets call them "TK2 directories", just an addition to the filename. As the different game programs can't cope with this addition in the filename, I asked Martin to make a solution to that, so I can (of course with TK2) DDOWN Game1_ LRUN BOOT And the games code finds all of its files, TK3 pushed the addition GAME1_ to all of its file operations. That worked under SuperBASIC and under machine code level. As I said, all without TT's hard directories. It is not guaranteed, that it will work with that. Martin links all drectory devide drivers during initialisation of TK3 (or DEVLINK), except the device WIN, as this should always do his own stuff. A problem is, that Martin uses some kind of free places of system variables, which TT later used on his own, although Martin has sent documentation about that early enough to TT. One can read in the SMSQ/E version documentation, that from one version, TT has disabled the intialisaton of TK3. So things may go wrong. There were times in the 1980s, where not all programmers are loved. Cheers...Ralf I hope, to make it a bit clearer. - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
Hi Ralf, Thank you for the clarification, I remember in the early 1990s Martin sent me an message via FidoNET: QL.INIT indocating that the WIN device could be included in the DEVLINK process, by patching the TK3 file the the WIN device. This allowed the WIN to have TK3 style directories, at that time I used Minerva, as SMSQ/E was not stable at that time. I will see if I can find the echomail message and post it here. With regards to the Manual, there is a manual in the archive with the ROM. I have just noticed that the TK3_ROM is a rom image, so LRESPR will not load it, you have use EPROM_LOAD. I have a Digital Precision Disk of TK3, which has a LRESPRable file, I will send this to Dilwyn, since it id freeware now. Seems all the QL software I have bought is free now... Regards, Derek On 28/06/15 09:16, Ralf Reköndt wrote: No, they aren't "Hard Devices". Martin has developed an idea from me a s follows: I had quite a few games on one flp. And I wanted to put them in a kind of directory, say Game1_, Game2_ and so on. That was long before TT's hard directories, lets call them "TK2 directories", just an addition to the filename. As the different game programs can't cope with this addition in the filename, I asked Martin to make a solution to that, so I can (of course with TK2) DDOWN Game1_ LRUN BOOT And the games code finds all of its files, TK3 pushed the addition GAME1_ to all of its file operations. That worked under SuperBASIC and under machine code level. As I said, all without TT's hard directories. It is not guaranteed, that it will work with that. Martin links all drectory devide drivers during initialisation of TK3 (or DEVLINK), except the device WIN, as this should always do his own stuff. A problem is, that Martin uses some kind of free places of system variables, which TT later used on his own, although Martin has sent documentation about that early enough to TT. One can read in the SMSQ/E version documentation, that from one version, TT has disabled the intialisaton of TK3. So things may go wrong. There were times in the 1980s, where not all programmers are loved. Cheers...Ralf I hope, to make it a bit clearer. - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
>From memory, LRESPR does not work with it - you need to get the file size and add another 2K It has been a while since I tried it! Rich > On June 28, 2015 at 7:54 AM Michael Bulford > wrote: > > > Hi, > > In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After > downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. > I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. > There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? > > Michael > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Rich Mellor RWAP Software www.rwapsoftware.co.uk www.sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
No, they aren't "Hard Devices". Martin has developed an idea from me a s follows: I had quite a few games on one flp. And I wanted to put them in a kind of directory, say Game1_, Game2_ and so on. That was long before TT's hard directories, lets call them "TK2 directories", just an addition to the filename. As the different game programs can't cope with this addition in the filename, I asked Martin to make a solution to that, so I can (of course with TK2) DDOWN Game1_ LRUN BOOT And the games code finds all of its files, TK3 pushed the addition GAME1_ to all of its file operations. That worked under SuperBASIC and under machine code level. As I said, all without TT's hard directories. It is not guaranteed, that it will work with that. Martin links all drectory devide drivers during initialisation of TK3 (or DEVLINK), except the device WIN, as this should always do his own stuff. A problem is, that Martin uses some kind of free places of system variables, which TT later used on his own, although Martin has sent documentation about that early enough to TT. One can read in the SMSQ/E version documentation, that from one version, TT has disabled the intialisaton of TK3. So things may go wrong. There were times in the 1980s, where not all programmers are loved. Cheers...Ralf I hope, to make it a bit clearer. - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3 On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
On 28/06/15 07:54, Michael Bulford wrote: Hi, In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Michael, I used use on a Minerva when the Toolkit 3 was commercial. As far as I can remember Toolkit 3 has a procure called DEVLINK, which alters the QDOS devices MDV, FLP, RAM to use attempt at hard directories. This was prior to SMSQ/E and Level 2 & 3 device drivers, Toolkit 3 maybe not run on an SMSQ/E system for that reason. There is a manual in the Digital Precision software. Regards, Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Toolkit 3
... Where I'm able to download the Version III of the toolkit ? :-) <> > Il giorno 28/giu/2015, alle ore 08:58, Michael Bulford > ha scritto: > > Hi, > > In the latest Quanta magazine, Toolkit 3 is now advertised as freeware. > After downloading and unzipping the file, it wouldn't work, it just freezes > the QL. I've tried using LRESPR with both QPC2 and Q-emuLator, both without > joy. There's no instructions in the user manual. Has anyone tried this? > > Michael > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
