[Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
Hi Wolfgang, thank you for the explanations. Regarding the voluntary work: I am astonished as well as grateful to people like you, Marcel, Giorgio in Italy and others who still find some time for QL related activities for the benefit of very few remaining active users. This is even more true considering that we are not talking anymore of young students with high energy, free time and almost no hassles. Kind regards Davide -Messaggio originale- Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Wolfgang Lenerz via Ql-Users Inviato: mercoledì 21 giugno 2017 09.26 A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Oggetto: [Ql-Users] QxlwinReader Hi Davide, > ... The DD Unix utility might > be of course an interesting option but maybe it could be more useful > for SD cards written with the QL-SD interface rather than a Qubide > hard disk (especially if it has more than one partition) Whilst it's true that this was written with these cards in mind, I'm not sure about this statement. If you have a PC that still has the connections for your hard disk (I presume it's IDE ?), using DD (or equivalent) might be the fastest way to get your data off that disk. I think I can confidently state that if I had an image file with several partitions, I could probably figure them out pretty quickly and amend QxlwinReader so that it can handle them. Tracks/cylinders/heads would be more difficult. > Talking more in general I think it is a pity that some possibile > implementations or bug fixes are becoming very difficult if not > impossible just because lack of the native hardware to test to the few > people which have the knowledge to solve these issues. I wonder how > this could be improved. Yes, not being able to reproduce and trace a bug is a problem. For example, some time back, a problem with SMSQ/E for the Atari was reported to me. I used to have some Ataris (and still had/have them but not in working condition). So there wasn't much I could do, until I stumbled upon an Atari emulator for the PC, which at least allowed me to see and even test the problem, and eventually figure out what went wrong. That was pure dumb luck! As you rightly point out, without the actual hardware this is going to become practically impossible - not only to fix, but even just to check whether the problem exists (a case in point : some recent QXL screen problem, one user (Andrea) reported a problem, I had a look at the code to try to find out why but couldn't, and then another user (Bob) said that it worked OK...). I'm not sure what can be done about this situation. Perhaps your solution, to supply actual hardware to people still fixing things might work. Without false modesty, I think I can safely say that most recent development for SMSQ/E has been done by Marcel, and to a much lesser degree, by me. I won't presume to speak for Marcel, so this only goes for myself : I'm just not sure that I'd want more hardware here! Also, don't forget that working on SMSQ/E is purely a voluntary work. For me, there is a big difference between writing something new like the recent Thing, and then fixing the problems I inevitably introduce on the one hand, and fixing other bugs, on the other hand. Since I've become the "regsistrar", which was supposed to be a purely administrative job, I'm often being asked to fix problems in some old code which I didn't write nor know about. It then takes me a lot of time to look at the code to try to understand it. In most cases I then just chicken out and refer this to Marcel :-), on some rare occasions, I manage to find the problem myself and fix it. For me, this is less fun than writing something for myself. I still do it just because I like SMSQ/E... But the point is that I do it because I want to, not because there is any obligation to. Finally just a not-so-related question: There is a bug reported here that precludes formatting disks on a SuperGoldgard - does anybody know whether that is also true for a simple Goldcard? I ask because I know that I can get my hands on one of those. Regards Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
By the way, if someone actually attaches a raw Qubide IDE harddisk to a PC in order to extract an image file with DD: Since 68K CPU's are big endian, while x86 is little endian, it might be required to do some conversion. Not sure about the QL, but on Q40/Q60, access to the IDE data registers is big endian! It might be required to swap every pair of bytes of input data, for which DD has the "swab" commandline option. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
Hi Davide, > The DD Unix utility might be of course an interesting option but > maybe it could be more useful for SD cards written with the QL-SD > interface rather than a Qubide hard disk (especially if it has > more than one partition) There might still be a misunderstanding, because the DD utitly is completely useless for QL-SD. DD can convert a raw media (Qubide formatted in this case) to an image file. But QL-SD already has the Qubide partitions in an image file! It does *not* have Qubide raw media, although that would have made it easier to get a working driver. The whole reason I initially wrote the QL-side FAT32 code, is to save the step of converting raw media to image files. Or in other words, the basic concept of QL-SD is *not* to need tools like DD. On QL-SD you can directly read the Qubide image file from a PC, for instance with QxlwinReader or an emulator. By the way, the same approach could also be taken for Qubide IDE harddisks! The IDE harddisk (or compact flash, etc.) could be formatted in FAT32, and then have Qubide inside an image file like QL-SD. That way, DD would no longer be needed. Now that the QL-side FAT32 code is there, it could be re-used. Maybe Alain could comment on this? The only remaining issue would be to convert old "raw" Qubide harddisks once. > I think maintaining compatibility and support of native QL > hardware should have some priority. I agree, insasmuch retro-computing becomes pointless if it lives only on emulation. Whereever I saw people returning to the QL in the recent years, it was hardware-related. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
Hi Wolfgang, Thank you very much for the comprehensive explanation. I understand it is extremely difficult - even forgetting about limitations like writing in Java - to implement a native access for Qubide disks. The DD Unix utility might be of course an interesting option but maybe it could be more useful for SD cards written with the QL-SD interface rather than a Qubide hard disk (especially if it has more than one partition) Talking more in general I think it is a pity that some possibile implementations or bug fixes are becoming very difficult if not impossible just because lack of the native hardware to test to the few people which have the knowledge to solve these issues. I wonder how this could be improved. I remember for instance Quanta many years ago had possibilities to invest some money on QL related projects. If I could vote for a useful way to spend this money (I mentioned Quanta just as an example) I think maintaining compatibility and support of native QL hardware should have some priority. All your efforts are of course much appreciated Kind regards Davide -Messaggio originale- Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Wolf via Ql-Users Inviato: domenica 18 giugno 2017 09:46 A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Oggetto: [Ql-Users] QxlwinReader Hi Davide, Just to try and clear up some things about QxlwinReader. This program reads Qubide image files. These are copies of a whole qubide disk, copied to a simple file. I should indeed have mentioned in my reply to you that the "dd" program I referred to is a utility that comes as standard with Linux and allows you to copy all or part of the content of some device to a simple file on another device. As others have mentioned, something similar also seems to exist for windows, though I have never tried that. QxlwinReader cannot, and will never be able to, read a disk directly. To do that, I would either have to be able to access a real disk for a raw read/write which, unless I'm mistaken, java doesn't allow me to do (at least not in an OS independent way), or write a filesystem driver: one for Linux, and another for Windows, probably yet another for Mac etc - you can see why this isn't feasible. Moreover, please note that QxlwinReader can only handle "LBA" type image files, i.e. ones where files are written consecutively to the disk (FAT allowing), without taking into account that they should be split up between tracks, cylinders and heads. If I had an example of a Qubide disk image file actually making use of tracks, cylinders and heads I **might** be able to figure this out, too. I believe that Alain Haoui has written a driver for these types of disks. Moreover, for the time being, QxlwinReader only handles the first partition of a Qubide disk image file. There is no reason why it shouldn't be able to handle the other partitions, too - except that, there again, I don't have an example of an image file with several partitions, and so would be unable to test this. Knowing myself, letting out untested software would not be doing you a favour... HTH Wolfgang On 17/06/2017 20:17, via Ql-Users wrote: > Of course I misunderstood and I thought Wolfgang was referring to a > floppy disk transfer. Can you please provide the link for the download of this "DD" > utility? > > Thanks > > Davide > > -Messaggio originale- > Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di > Peter Graf via Ql-Users > Inviato: sabato 17 giugno 2017 20:01 > A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Oggetto: Re: [Ql-Users] R: R: QxlwinReader > > Davide wrote: > >> Having had to transfer a full QL system based on SGC/Qubide to .win >> with 150 Mb, using DD would have been quite a nightmare. > > Why should dd be a nightmare? Are you aware that dd means a utility > program, not floppies? > >> [...] > >> I understand the effort to write such sw might not be negligible, but >> a utility which could manage to read native Qubide hard disks on a PC >> and transfer files to a .win file (and maybe vicecersa) I think would >> be very useful. > > If you have a PC with IDE port anyway, then where is the problem to > use dd to get the image? > > Peter > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > > ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
Hi Davide,
I'm not sure I understand what you want. You want to be able to read a
physical Qubide formatted disk, not just an image file?
Perhaps the best way would be to copy (via "dd") the disk to an image
file and work off that.
Regards
Wolfgang
On 11/06/2017 10:16, via Ql-Users wrote:
Hi Wolfgang,
Very nice, that was indeed one of my "most wanted" utilities. I am almost
over recovering the content of a hard disk from a Sinclair QL-Qubide system
to a WIN file via QXL. This took quite some due to the file numbers and
sizes with the bottleneck of the network speed which in any case proved to
be extremely reliable. Of course it is not so easy these days to find a QXL
and even more a host PC with ISA bus. The only other alternatives without a
QXL would have been floppy disks or sernet which however looks not as easy
as the network port to be configured also on the hw side (cables, wiring
etc).
Having a utility which could read/write WIN files and read (which for me
would be more then sufficient) Qubide formatted hard drives on a standard PC
would be really great.
Regards
Davide
-Messaggio originale-
Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Wolf via
Ql-Users
Inviato: sabato 10 giugno 2017 19:56
A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Oggetto: [Ql-Users] QxlwinReader
Hi all,
I've released QxlwinReader, a small java program that allows you to
read/write qxl.win type container files directly.
There is also experimental support for Qubide formatted ("BDI") container
files.
www.wlenerz.com/QLstuff.
Have fun!
Wolfgang
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[Ql-Users] R: QxlwinReader
Hi Wolfgang,
Very nice, that was indeed one of my "most wanted" utilities. I am almost
over recovering the content of a hard disk from a Sinclair QL-Qubide system
to a WIN file via QXL. This took quite some due to the file numbers and
sizes with the bottleneck of the network speed which in any case proved to
be extremely reliable. Of course it is not so easy these days to find a QXL
and even more a host PC with ISA bus. The only other alternatives without a
QXL would have been floppy disks or sernet which however looks not as easy
as the network port to be configured also on the hw side (cables, wiring
etc).
Having a utility which could read/write WIN files and read (which for me
would be more then sufficient) Qubide formatted hard drives on a standard PC
would be really great.
Regards
Davide
-Messaggio originale-
Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Wolf via
Ql-Users
Inviato: sabato 10 giugno 2017 19:56
A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Oggetto: [Ql-Users] QxlwinReader
Hi all,
I've released QxlwinReader, a small java program that allows you to
read/write qxl.win type container files directly.
There is also experimental support for Qubide formatted ("BDI") container
files.
www.wlenerz.com/QLstuff.
Have fun!
Wolfgang
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