Re: [qubes-users] Q: Installing additional software

[Sven Semmler]

On 1/15/21 7:39 PM, unman wrote:
If you use a single template and load it with software[...] By 
contrast, if you use a minimal template and install a single 
application, the attack surface is smaller.


Now I see.

In my system, almost*all*  my working qubes are based on adapted 
minimal templates, and most of them, including my mail qubes, are 
offline.


I do the same.


This may be why I have an unholy number of templates.


Which is no issue thanks to apt-cacher-ng


If I want to view, or edit, I do it in an offline qube: I*have*  to
do it in another qube, 


Absolutely. Now it's clear. Thank you!

/Sven

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[qubes-users] Re: Help me test fixes for Intel IGD graphical artifacts on Qubes R4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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Hash: SHA256

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 01:49:25AM +, Jinoh Kang wrote:
> On 1/15/21 8:06 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 05:29:43PM +, Jinoh Kang wrote:
> >> Is qubes-xorg-x11-drv-intel an option?  Upstream hasn't released for years 
> >> after all...
> > 
> > Something like this. In fact the current (Fedora) package is already
> > built from git snapshot.
> 
> Here's the catch: Fedora hasn't been bumping gitdate for almost a year,
> as seen in Pagure [1].
> 
> > We do backport this package from newer Fedora already:
> > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-linux-dom0-updates
> 
> That one from Fedora 28 is a bit behind, too.
> 
> > 
> > But I would prefer to get it upstream anyway (and then possibly build
> > xorg-x11-drv-intel from newer git snapshot).
> 
> Something like this?  (haven't built it yet, will fix later)

I guess, yes.

> diff --git a/src/sna/kgem.c b/src/sna/kgem.c
> index 6a35067c..8a7af809 100644
> --- a/src/sna/kgem.c
> +++ b/src/sna/kgem.c
> @@ -7023,6 +7023,8 @@ struct kgem_bo *kgem_create_map(struct kgem *kgem,
>   struct kgem_bo *bo;
>   uintptr_t first_page, last_page;
>   uint32_t handle;
> + struct drm_i915_gem_set_domain set_domain;
> + bool move_to_gtt = false;
>  
>   assert(MAP(ptr) == ptr);
>  
> @@ -7043,20 +7045,10 @@ struct kgem_bo *kgem_create_map(struct kgem *kgem,
>read_only);
>   if (handle == 0) {
>   if (read_only && kgem->has_wc_mmap) {
> - struct drm_i915_gem_set_domain set_domain;
> -
>   handle = gem_userptr(kgem->fd,
>(void *)first_page, 
> last_page-first_page,
>false);
> -
> - VG_CLEAR(set_domain);
> - set_domain.handle = handle;
> - set_domain.read_domains = I915_GEM_DOMAIN_GTT;
> - set_domain.write_domain = 0;
> - if (do_ioctl(kgem->fd, DRM_IOCTL_I915_GEM_SET_DOMAIN, 
> _domain)) {
> - gem_close(kgem->fd, handle);
> - handle = 0;
> - }
> + move_to_gtt = true;
>   }
>   if (handle == 0) {
>   DBG(("%s: import failed, errno=%d\n", __FUNCTION__, 
> errno));
> @@ -7064,6 +7056,21 @@ struct kgem_bo *kgem_create_map(struct kgem *kgem,
>   }
>   }
>  
> + VG_CLEAR(set_domain);
> + set_domain.handle = handle;
> + if (move_to_gtt) {
> + set_domain.read_domains = I915_GEM_DOMAIN_GTT;
> + set_domain.write_domain = 0;
> + } else {
> + set_domain.read_domains = I915_GEM_DOMAIN_CPU;
> + set_domain.write_domain = I915_GEM_DOMAIN_CPU;
> + }
> + if (do_ioctl(kgem->fd, DRM_IOCTL_I915_GEM_SET_DOMAIN, _domain)) {
> + gem_close(kgem->fd, handle);
> + DBG(("%s: set_domain in import failed, errno=%d\n", 
> __FUNCTION__, errno));
> + return NULL;
> + }
> +
>   bo = __kgem_bo_alloc(handle, (last_page - first_page) / PAGE_SIZE);
>   if (bo == NULL) {
>   gem_close(kgem->fd, handle);
> 
> ---
> 
> [1] 
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/xorg-x11-drv-intel/blob/master/f/xorg-x11-drv-intel.spec#_3
> 

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-users] Q: Installing additional software

[unman]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 06:35:13PM -0600, Sven Semmler wrote:
> On 1/15/21 6:10 PM, unman wrote:
> > at the expense of security, since all AppVMs based on that template
> > will have a large number of applications/libraries which may be ripe
> > for exploit.
> 
> Could you please elaborate? I am not sure I understand.

Many attacks rely on chaining exploits and loopholes in an assortment of
applications and libraries.
You see this very often in "capture the flag" contests, and in real
world attacks.
If you use a single template and load it with software (and therefore
associated libraries) you have significantly broadened the attack
surface: this is particularly so if you install "recommended and
suggested" packages. 
By contrast, if you use a minimal template and install a single
application, the attack surface is smaller.
If you have a template loaded with file viewers, office applications and
drawing software, it will undoubtedly be extremely useful. But the
attack surface is large. If you use that template as the basis for your
mail reader, for example, then there is scope for an attack using a crafted
email attachment. 
But if you use a minimal template with a good mail reader like mutt,
and open all the attachments in an offline disposable VM based on that
extensive template, the risk to your mail reader, and by extension
your Qubes system, is reduced. (Note, reduced but nor removed.)

In my system, almost *all* my working qubes are based on adapted minimal
templates, and most of them, including my mail qubes, are offline.
This may be why I have an unholy number of templates.
File storage qubes are exactly that - they store files. If I want to
view, or edit, I do it in an offline qube: I *have* to do it in another
qube, because the storage qubes don't have the capacity for anything
except plain text editing (and imagemagick, and some python and).
Are there risks? Of course.

> 
> > I'm not altogether clear on what you mean here.
> 
> I understood
> 
> 1) AppVM based on debian-10 and install gimp in AmpVM. The OP might or might
> not be aware of binds/persistence.

I didnt hear this in what OP wrote.

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[qubes-users] HCL - HP EliteBook 850 G3

[Alexis Torres]

Works:
Everything works: Suspend, ACPI, Wifi, Audio, Camera, Microphone

Untested:
Ethernet, Bluetooth. I imagine those works.

Does not work:
Nothing found yet

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Qubes-HCL-HP-HP_EliteBook_850_G3-20210116-015629.cpio.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data


Qubes-HCL-HP-HP_EliteBook_850_G3-20210116-015629.yml
Description: application/yaml

Re: [qubes-users] Q: Installing additional software

[Sven Semmler]

On 1/15/21 6:10 PM, unman wrote:

at the expense of security, since all AppVMs based on that template
will have a large number of applications/libraries which may be ripe
for exploit.


Could you please elaborate? I am not sure I understand.


I'm not altogether clear on what you mean here.


I understood

1) AppVM based on debian-10 and install gimp in AmpVM. The OP might or 
might not be aware of binds/persistence.


2) New template cloned from debian-10 which gimp is then installed into.
AppVM is based on that new template.

/Sven

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Re: [qubes-users] Q: Installing additional software

[unman]

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 12:41:04AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I have a question about installing additional software (e.g. GIMP in
> debian-10):
> The options I see are:
> 1) Install it in some AppVM based on debian-10
> 2) Clone debian-10 template and install software there. Create some AppVM
> based on that template
> 
> I'd guess 1) needs less space, but for 2) I'm not sure what happens when
> updates are applied to both, the template and the AppVM.
> 
> Regards,
> Ulrich
> 

1. needs less space, but at the expense of security, since all AppVMs
based on that template will have a large number of
applications/libraries which may be ripe for exploit.

I'm not altogether clear on what you mean here. You then have two
templates which will need updating - unless you are using a caching
proxy instead of the standard tinyproxy, this is going to take time and
suck up bandwidth.
You can, naturally, update the AppVM separately from the template, as
usual, but updates will be lost on reboot. (I do this sometimes when I am
checking on updates/installs or configuration changes: one of the great
things about Qubes.)

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[qubes-users] Q: Installing additional software

[Ulrich Windl]

Hi!

I have a question about installing additional software (e.g. GIMP in 
debian-10):

The options I see are:
1) Install it in some AppVM based on debian-10
2) Clone debian-10 template and install software there. Create some 
AppVM based on that template


I'd guess 1) needs less space, but for 2) I'm not sure what happens when 
updates are applied to both, the template and the AppVM.


Regards,
Ulrich

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Re: [EXT] Re: [qubes-users] Qubes boots to grey screen, mouse frozen

[Ulrich Windl]

On 1/11/21 12:07 PM, TheCrispyToast wrote:
Was able to disable whonix from startup, that didn't seem to do 
anything. That's assuming I was supposed to restart after that and try 
to boot as normal right? Is there a way to then exit terminal and 
continue signing in with GUI?


I tried to disable firewall/net VM and then got a watchdog error, i'd 
imagine this is a security feature of qubes?


For me it looks like some kind of hardware problem.


Sorry it's a photo and not text!
IMG_3283.JPG

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 7:13:16 PM UTC awokd wrote:

TheCrispyToast:
 > On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 12:18:54 AM UTC awokd wrote:
 >
 >> This seems like it could be a hardware or disk corruption issue.
Try
 >> hitting ctrl-alt-F5 to switch to a text terminal when you are at
the
 >> grey screen. Should hopefully be able to login there and pull
logs. If
 >> your disk was close to filling up, that could point more towards
drive
 >> corruption.
 >>
 >> My disk was definitley not close to filling up, but it may have
been one
 > of the VM partitions that was close to filling up. I have managed
to get
 > into the dom0 terminal upon bootup. Excuse my ignorance, but
could you
 > asssit with the proper commands for pulling logs and/or turning
certain VMs
 > off from startup? I think itd be better to start a boot with only
dom0
 > running. As I said before, sometimes it will let me even get
logged in and
 > then once whonix appears to start the whole system freezes.
 >
"sudo journalctl -b" might be helpful. If you can get into dom0,
"qvm-prefs sys-whonix autostart false" will do that. Might also set
sys-firewall and sys-net autostart to false.

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Mailing list etiquette:
- trim quoted reply to only relevant portions
- when possible, copy and paste text instead of screenshots

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[qubes-users] Re: Help me test fixes for Intel IGD graphical artifacts on Qubes R4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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Hash: SHA256

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 05:29:43PM +, Jinoh Kang wrote:
> Is qubes-xorg-x11-drv-intel an option?  Upstream hasn't released for years 
> after all...

Something like this. In fact the current (Fedora) package is already
built from git snapshot.
We do backport this package from newer Fedora already:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-linux-dom0-updates

But I would prefer to get it upstream anyway (and then possibly build
xorg-x11-drv-intel from newer git snapshot).

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[qubes-users] Re: Help me test fixes for Intel IGD graphical artifacts on Qubes R4.0

[Jinoh Kang]

Is qubes-xorg-x11-drv-intel an option?  Upstream hasn't released for years 
after all...

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: High dom0 CPU usage by qubesd

[David Hobach]

Hi Vit,


* I have many VMs in my computer.
* I use i3 with qubes-i3status
* The script qubes-i3status calls command qvm-ls --no-spinner --raw-data
--fields NAME,FLAGS quite frequently.
* The command qvm-ls --no-spinner --raw-data --fields NAME,FLAGS seems to
cause high CPU load. Unfortunately, the process that shows the high CPU
usage is qubesd, not qvm-ls.

What can be improved:

a. Don't use qubes-i3status. Problem solved.
b. Optimize qvm-ls. Not sure how hard it is.


This issue is really old (back from at least 3.2) and caused by each qvm-ls 
line relating to one request to qubesd. Actually it was even worse with 3.2.

It should improve with 4.1 though, see [1].

[1] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3293


c. Optimize qubes-i3status. I am not sure about the ideal way of doing
that, but clearly running qvm-ls --no-spinner --raw-data --fields
NAME,FLAGS just to compute the number of running qubes is far from optimal.
One could add --running. And maybe it could have been written without
flags. The script just ignores VMs with the first flag being “0” (maybe in
order to ignore dom0) and the second flag being “r” (probably not needed
with --running).


Filtering might work in the meantime, yes.

BR
David

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[qubes-users] Re: Help me test fixes for Intel IGD graphical artifacts on Qubes R4.0

[Jinoh Kang]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 1/13/21 3:25 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:21:51PM +, Jinoh Kang wrote:
>> On 1/11/21 11:03 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>>> So, I can confirm the (fixed) 5.10 patch also improves the situation.
> 
>> Sounds good.  Thanks for testing!
> 
>>> Have you sent it upstream?
> 
>> No, qubes-users and qubes-devel are the only mailing list where I
>> posted this.
> 
>> I guess chances of these patches being merged upstream would not be
>> that great.
> 
> If that bug indeed affects only Qubes OS, there is a greater chance to
> accept the patch, if the option defaults to false.
> 
>> After all, we're not going to need it with Qubes R4.1.
> 
> Are you sure?

Now that I think about it, I just realised that we are still going to 
this patch in Qubes R4.1, while migrating old VMs still using MFNDUMP.

But then, Fedora has moved away from xf86-video-intel to modesetting, so
we aren't going to need this patch either way (unless we are going to
switch to Wayland tomorrow)?

I believe everything else has been covered in qubes-issues#5909 [1].

> The issue affects dom0 windows, which suggests it still
> may be necessary.

Does it? I personally haven't experienced this case yet.

> On the other hand, your patch description suggests
> it's just any VM-mapped window triggers the faulty path in the
> xf86-video-intel driver, that later affects all of the output.

Yes, but for privcmd-backed pages only.  gntdev pages are unaffected.

> 
>>> I do consider including it in our standard
>>> kernel package, but I'd like to see i915 driver maintainer opinion
>>> first.
> 
>> If you mean you'd prefer to have it upstreamed, I'd appreciate some
>> Tested-by: and/or Reviewed-by: lines for the trailer from you.
> 
> Can you send a fixed patch (that builds), rebased on top of recent Linux
> (5.11-rc3, or recent 5.10)? I'll re-test and add my Tested-by:.

OK, I'll send it upstream.

> 
>> I'm fine as well if you'd rather just submit it yourself.
> 
>> Otherwise I suppose I shall only CC' the maintainers and not the list?
> 
> Generally, Linux patches should be sent to whoever MAINTAINERS file
> lists, which do include some mailing lists. I highly recommend using
> scripts/get_maintainer.pl script for that purpose (if you use git
> send-email, that's as easy as --cc-cmd=scripts/get_maintainer.pl).

PS: due to Google SMTP OAuth2 issues, I have this weird workflow where I
first stage my changes in my local IMAP daemon's mbox and bounce it via
Thunderbird.  This is admittedly very annoying, and perhaps I should
tinker with (neo)mutt + gmail-oauth2-tools some time.  Or maybe switch
to a "real" mail account.  This will also explain my past embedded PGP
signing mistake.  Sorry about that...;(

> 
> PS The other (independent) issue I mentioned seems to be
> https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1180543, which is supposed to
> be already fixed in >=5.10.6. I've already uploaded 5.10.7, but haven't
> tested it on this particular machine yet.

Thanks, good to know.

- --

[1] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5909

- -- 
Sincerely,
Jinoh Kang
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