Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[Michael Siepmann]

On 4/18/19 2:30 AM, David Hobach wrote:
> On 4/18/19 12:52 AM, Michael Siepmann wrote:
>>> I dont see this on any machine, including long running desktops.
>>> Is it possible that you are suffering from over-heating? That would
>>> account for symptoms.
>>
>> I'm now monitoring temperatures with the "sensors" command in a dom0
>> terminal and although the problem hasn't yet happened again, the
>> temperatures I'm seeing are often getting close to or even reaching
>> "Critical":
>>
>> coretemp-isa-
>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>> Package id 0: +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
>> Core 0:    +99.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
>> Core 1:   +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
>>
>> acpitz-virtual-0
>> Adapter: Virtual device
>> temp1:    +99.0°C  (crit = +200.0°C)
>>
>> thinkpad-isa-
>> Adapter: ISA adapter
>> fan1:    4788 RPM
>>
>> If over-heating is the cause, does that suggest a hardware problem, or
>> is there something I can do to configure Qubes differently to stop it
>> from getting so hot?
>>
>
> That's not good. Usually CPUs shut down and cause a reboot as you
> observed at 100-110 Celsius (CPUs may die at higher temperatures and
> thus perform an emergency shutdown).
>
> Looks like you have a hardware issue with your CPU fan. Either
> cleaning the CPU fan and replacing the thermal paste or replacing the
> entire CPU fan is likely to solve your issue. Youtube videos are your
> best friend there.
>
> I had similar syptoms in the past, replaced the fan and thermal paste
> (apparently the seller had applied way too much) and went down to
> 70-80 Celsius at maximum load.
>
Thank you! I will try cleaning it first and then replace it if needed. I
have some thermal paste that came with my Raspberry Pi.


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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[David Hobach]

On 4/18/19 12:52 AM, Michael Siepmann wrote:

I dont see this on any machine, including long running desktops.
Is it possible that you are suffering from over-heating? That would
account for symptoms.


I'm now monitoring temperatures with the "sensors" command in a dom0
terminal and although the problem hasn't yet happened again, the
temperatures I'm seeing are often getting close to or even reaching
"Critical":

coretemp-isa-
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0: +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:    +99.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:   +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:    +99.0°C  (crit = +200.0°C)

thinkpad-isa-
Adapter: ISA adapter
fan1:    4788 RPM

If over-heating is the cause, does that suggest a hardware problem, or
is there something I can do to configure Qubes differently to stop it
from getting so hot?



That's not good. Usually CPUs shut down and cause a reboot as you 
observed at 100-110 Celsius (CPUs may die at higher temperatures and 
thus perform an emergency shutdown).


Looks like you have a hardware issue with your CPU fan. Either cleaning 
the CPU fan and replacing the thermal paste or replacing the entire CPU 
fan is likely to solve your issue. Youtube videos are your best friend 
there.


I had similar syptoms in the past, replaced the fan and thermal paste 
(apparently the seller had applied way too much) and went down to 70-80 
Celsius at maximum load.


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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[Michael Siepmann]

On 4/13/19 7:56 AM, unman wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 08:36:19AM +0200, David Hobach wrote:
>> On 4/12/19 5:24 PM, Michael Siepmann wrote:
>>> On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:
>>>
 Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on 
 Intel hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm 
 using an Intel Core i3.

 Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. 
 Got it on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), 
 multiple times.

 Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
 multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this 
 hardware before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never 
 had a problem.

 The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no 
 warning. Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system 
 is idle, and I haven't touched the console for hours.

 It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
 rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many 
 reboots I have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), 
 because I know the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or 
 two later anyway.
>>> I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the past
>>> week or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T440p
>>> with Intel Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.
>> Same here, but only since 4.0 and since coreboot & ME-cleaner on a T530.
>>
>> I've always suspected that it's related to memory kills (there was an OOM
>> issue on github), but there's absolutely nothing in the journal after such a
>> "forced" reboot.
>>
> I dont see this on any machine, including long running desktops.
> Is it possible that you are suffering from over-heating? That would
> account for symptoms.

I'm now monitoring temperatures with the "sensors" command in a dom0
terminal and although the problem hasn't yet happened again, the
temperatures I'm seeing are often getting close to or even reaching
"Critical":

coretemp-isa-
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0: +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:    +99.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:   +100.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:    +99.0°C  (crit = +200.0°C)

thinkpad-isa-
Adapter: ISA adapter
fan1:    4788 RPM

If over-heating is the cause, does that suggest a hardware problem, or
is there something I can do to configure Qubes differently to stop it
from getting so hot?

Thanks!


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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[Michael Siepmann]

 

On 4/13/19 12:28 PM, Chris wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, April 12, 2019 3:24 PM, Michael Siepmann
>  wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:
>>
>>> Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on 
>>> Intel hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm 
>>> using an Intel Core i3.
>>>
>>> Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. Got 
>>> it on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), multiple 
>>> times.
>>>
>>> Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
>>> multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this 
>>> hardware before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never 
>>> had a problem.
>>>
>>> The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no warning. 
>>> Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system is idle, 
>>> and I haven't touched the console for hours.
>>>
>>> It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
>>> rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many 
>>> reboots I have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), 
>>> because I know the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or two 
>>> later anyway.
>>>
>> I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the
>> past week or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad
>> T440p with Intel Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.
>>
>
> I had this problem which was due to Intel AMT Control being enabled in
> the BIOS. Since turning this off my system has not rebooted.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
> -
> Chris Willard
> ch...@meliser.co.uk 


Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I appreciate it. I checked and Intel
AMT was already disabled so I guess something else must be causing it in
my case.


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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[David Hobach]

On 4/13/19 8:29 PM, brendan.h...@gmail.com wrote:

There are some discussions in qubes-issues on github about torbrowser causing 
100% cpu while idle, yet appearing to mostly work ok. Running a couple VMs with 
that bug might cause an overheat reboot on some systems...


No Intel AMT (coreboot), no overheating (~50-60 degrees when idle), no 
torbrowser here... But thanks for the hints anyway, maybe it'll help 
someone!


I was referring to [1] earlier on. I didn't observe any log entries though.

I'll keep you posted if I ever find the root cause.

[1] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3079

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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[brendan . hoar]

There are some discussions in qubes-issues on github about torbrowser causing 
100% cpu while idle, yet appearing to mostly work ok. Running a couple VMs with 
that bug might cause an overheat reboot on some systems...

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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[Chris]

Hello Michael,

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, April 12, 2019 3:24 PM, Michael Siepmann  
wrote:

> On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:
>
>> Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on 
>> Intel hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm 
>> using an Intel Core i3.
>>
>> Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. Got 
>> it on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), multiple 
>> times.
>>
>> Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
>> multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this hardware 
>> before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never had a 
>> problem.
>>
>> The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no warning. 
>> Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system is idle, and 
>> I haven't touched the console for hours.
>>
>> It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
>> rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many 
>> reboots I have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), 
>> because I know the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or two 
>> later anyway.
>
> I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the past week 
> or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T440p with Intel 
> Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.

I had this problem which was due to Intel AMT Control being enabled in the 
BIOS. Since turning this off my system has not rebooted.

Regards,

Chris

-
Chris Willard
ch...@meliser.co.uk

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[unman]

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 08:36:19AM +0200, David Hobach wrote:
> On 4/12/19 5:24 PM, Michael Siepmann wrote:
> > On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:
> > 
> > > Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on 
> > > Intel hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm 
> > > using an Intel Core i3.
> > > 
> > > Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. 
> > > Got it on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), 
> > > multiple times.
> > > 
> > > Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
> > > multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this 
> > > hardware before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never 
> > > had a problem.
> > > 
> > > The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no 
> > > warning. Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system 
> > > is idle, and I haven't touched the console for hours.
> > > 
> > > It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
> > > rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many 
> > > reboots I have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), 
> > > because I know the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or 
> > > two later anyway.
> > 
> > I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the past
> > week or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T440p
> > with Intel Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.
> 
> Same here, but only since 4.0 and since coreboot & ME-cleaner on a T530.
> 
> I've always suspected that it's related to memory kills (there was an OOM
> issue on github), but there's absolutely nothing in the journal after such a
> "forced" reboot.
> 

I dont see this on any machine, including long running desktops.
Is it possible that you are suffering from over-heating? That would
account for symptoms.

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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[David Hobach]

On 4/12/19 5:24 PM, Michael Siepmann wrote:

On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:


Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on Intel 
hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm using an 
Intel Core i3.

Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. Got it 
on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), multiple times.

Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this hardware 
before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never had a problem.

The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no warning. 
Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system is idle, and I 
haven't touched the console for hours.

It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many reboots I 
have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), because I know 
the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or two later anyway.


I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the past
week or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T440p
with Intel Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.


Same here, but only since 4.0 and since coreboot & ME-cleaner on a T530.

I've always suspected that it's related to memory kills (there was an 
OOM issue on github), but there's absolutely nothing in the journal 
after such a "forced" reboot.


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Re: [qubes-users] Spontaneous rebooting

[Michael Siepmann]

On 8/10/18 12:37 PM, Kelly Dean wrote:

> Am I the only one having a problem with Qubes spontaneously rebooting on 
> Intel hardware? Only other reports I see are about AMD problems, but I'm 
> using an Intel Core i3.
>
> Happens every few weeks. Sometimes just 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes 5 or 6. Got 
> it on Qubes 3.2, and now 4.0 too (new installation, not upgrade), multiple 
> times.
>
> Unlikely to be a hardware problem. The system passed both memtest86 and a 
> multi-day mersenne prime stress test. And other OSes tested on this hardware 
> before I switched to Qubes, including Debian and Windows, never had a problem.
>
> The rebooting seems completely random. No apparent trigger, and no warning. 
> Acts like an instant hard reset. Sometimes even when the system is idle, and 
> I haven't touched the console for hours.
>
> It's wearingly inevitable enough that I don't even bother intentionally 
> rebooting after system updates anymore, in order to minimize how many reboots 
> I have to deal with (setting my workspace back up is an ordeal), because I 
> know the system will end up spontaneously rebooting a week or two later 
> anyway.

I'm having this problem too. I hadn't had it for a while but in the past
week or so it's happened a few times. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T440p
with Intel Core i7, and Qubes 4.0 which I keep updated.

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