Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
Hi Will, good questions. Before I offer an answer: 1. can you please provide samples of the ntp.conf files you have in place. It would really assist. 2. can you please provide the version of ntpd you are using? regards pk Questions: How can I configure a client/peer to always accept a server as good enough or atleast always accept the server when no other server can be contacted? (please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: How can I configure a server to always consider itself good enough and report that (lie if necessary) so that any badly configured client will still connect?(please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
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From: David Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: jv8pk0$fki$1...@dont-email.me References: 5016ac86.2000...@nist.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Injection-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:20:48 + (UTC) Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host=ec31590fbbc62faa9d891a3130cd48b3; logging-data=16018; mail-complaints-to=ab...@eternal-september.org; posting-account=U2FsdGVkX1/Pm6PeTV41cwl14zYLOt6UYAjE0vnVoDQ= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 In-Reply-To: 5016ac86.2000...@nist.gov Cancel-Lock: sha1:CrjUPOPLRIPb3uJkVQQWf0UsLUk= X-Received-Bytes: 2102 To: questions@lists.ntp.org Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:20:48 +0100 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:4f8:fff7:1::4 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: questions@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: n...@ntp.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mail1.ntp.org X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MISSING_DATE, MISSING_FROM, MISSING_HEADERS, MISSING_MID, MISSING_SUBJECT, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks X-BeenThere: questions@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk List-Id: Mailing list for people with questions about NTP \(gatewayed to the USENET newsgroup comp.protocols.time.ntp\) questions.lists.ntp.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.ntp.org/options/questions, mailto:questions-requ...@lists.ntp.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions List-Post: mailto:questions@lists.ntp.org List-Help: mailto:questions-requ...@lists.ntp.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions, mailto:questions-requ...@lists.ntp.org?subject=subscribe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed Errors-To: questions-bounces+archive=mail-archive@lists.ntp.org Sender: questions-bounces+archive=mail-archive@lists.ntp.org X-pstn-neptune: 0/0/0.00/0 X-pstn-levels: (S:99.9/99.9 CV:99.9000 FC:95.5390 LC:95.5390 R:95.9108 P:95.9108 M:97.0282 C:98.6951 ) X-pstn-dkim: 0 skipped:not-enabled X-pstn-settings: 4 (1.5000:1.5000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c X-pstn-addresses: from david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid [294/10] On 30/07/2012 16:47, Will Shackleford wrote: We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. [] Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? Are you using Orphan mode? http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/OrphanMode http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2007-October/015661.html http://fixunix.com/ntp/68214-new-orphan-mode.html (a duplicate?) Hope that helps. -- Cheers, David Web: http://www.satsignal.eu ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
One option is to install a gps receiver onto one or more of your machines to deliver accurate time to them. The second option is to look into orphan mode, which was designed for your situation. Your problem is probably that you are using more than one of th emachines as the server and they have gotten out of sync with each otehr so that the other machines cannot figure out which is the more accurate time. You give no indication of what you have set up so it is pretty hard to figure out what is going wrong. On 2012-07-30, Will Shackleford shac...@nist.gov wrote: We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. One frustration I have had is that clients tend to refuse to connect to servers on the network that are not good enough. I assume not good enough means too high a stratum although the stratum does not really matter (unless it is 15 or so) but disagreement amongst the servers does matter. error messages are not that clear. Perhaps if you told us what they were, they would be clearer to some of us than to you. My current solution is to take a laptop to another room with an internet connection, let it sit for an hour and then bring it back to connect the local network where finally the other computers will accept it and synchronize with it. Questions: How can I configure a client/peer to always accept a server as good enough or atleast always accept the server when no other server can be contacted? (please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: How can I configure a server to always consider itself good enough and report that (lie if necessary) so that any badly configured client will still connect?(please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] WARNING: someone's faking a leap second tonight
Hi all This is just to warn you that there are now some NTP servers around the globe spreading a leap second announcement for tomorrow 00:00:00 UTC (so, basically, in a few hours now). If you didn't take action before the leapocalypse last month, you better hurry now. Ciao -- bronto ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
Will Shackleford wrote: We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. You should be able to do a time island with ntp orpahn mode: e.g. I use something similar to this on all PCs / Devices # ALL (Clients and/or Servers) tos cohort 1 orphan 11 restrict default limited kod nomodify notrap restrict 127.0.0.1 restrict source nomodify keys /etc/ntp.keys # e.g. contains: 123 M YOUR_MD5_KEY trustedkey 123 manycastserver 224.0.1.1 manycastclient 224.0.1.1 key 123 preempt multicastclient 224.0.1.1 key 123 preempt broadcastclient One frustration I have had is that clients tend to refuse to connect to servers on the network that are not good enough. I assume not good enough means too high a stratum although the error messages are not that clear. You should be able to tell with: ntpq -n -c lpe -c las -c rv 0 -c rv 1 -c rv 2 -c rv 3 -c rv 4 and the decodes in your html files that come with ntp, http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/decode.html My current solution is to take a laptop to another room with an internet connection, let it sit for an hour and then bring it back to connect the local network where finally the other computers will accept it and synchronize with it. That is likely the ever increasing dispersion. How can I configure a client/peer to always accept a server as good enough or atleast always accept the server when no other server can be contacted? Add prefer for your primary server? server primary.time-island.nist.gov iburst prefer You might also want to increase mindist, however too much will likely end up in several groups walking away from each other; e.g. tos mindist 0.020 Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? operator wants and ntp commanded to are not equal? -- E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com will be added to the BlackLists. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
BlackLists wrote: Will Shackleford wrote: We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. You should be able to do a time island with ntp orpahn mode: Sorry, I should have included references, it is covered in the html files that come with ntp: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/orphan.html http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/miscopt.html#tos http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/OrphanMode -- E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com will be added to the BlackLists. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] SBC-ATT Time Servers
att just doesn't have much of a clue, when it comes to Network Time. for years, they had clocks running on NIS+ servers, mainly to keep time in sync on the network devices. The new att ... launched U-Verse, which had insane timing requirements, hence the build of the Anycast ntp servers (ntp1.sbcglobal.net/ntp2.sbcglobal.net). Most of the U-Verse STBs sync to these ... but not the network equipment! The network hardware, talks directly to the stratum 1 clock(s). Correction, most of the network equipment talks to the Richardson stratum 1.. Apparently, nobody but me still uses the SNFC21 or WLFRCT stratum 1 clocks :p I strongly suspect, after I told Darth Felo to take my job, and shovel it ... NOBODY has been minding the clocks, at all. The RCSNTX stratum 1 (151.164.60.81) is almost always 50 seconds off now. I'd be willing to bet nobody has so much as performed one iota of maintenance on that system, since I deployed it, in 2008. There is another stratum 1 clock source, in Wallingford, CT. So far, I've never seen any of the anycast nodes so much as ask it for time! I find it to be MUCH more reliable: st1gs-ntp3.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net Unless someone gets a swift kick in the hiney up in the 'new' att ... I'd avoid the stratum 1 clock in RCSNTX (st1gs-ntp.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) and the anycast clock nodes that sync off it (ntp1.sbcglobal.net/ntp2.sbcglobal.net) The stratum 1 clocks ARE open to any clients, however they are restricted and controlled, somewhat. My initial configs seem to still be in place. Though, sometimes I think someone's foo!bar'd the SNFC21 clock, as it's over 60 seconds out-of-whack, pretty consistently. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
Unruh had the correct advice: Buy a (cheap) GPS device for a master clock and propagate the correct time. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Become a force, develop a reputation, for progress, one of the foundations of Western Civilization. The new BU-353, not the old one you can find for about $30, but the one that costs about $42, at USGlobalSat.com will do the job within a half second or better, and it is trivial to set up. All you need is a free USB port and a window, or preferably a thin roof, that faces the satellites. The Sure (search for Sure Electronics) GPS demo board is supposed to give much more accurate time, but it is a pain to set up. There are beaucoup people on this list that know a lot more about GPS clocks than I and most are willing to help, if you just ask. Meinberg at www.meinberg.de sells lots of very accurate clocks, and there are several other places like it. Search for GPS clocks or NTP clocks. Charles Elliott -Original Message- From: questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org [mailto:questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of Will Shackleford Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:47 AM To: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. One frustration I have had is that clients tend to refuse to connect to servers on the network that are not good enough. I assume not good enough means too high a stratum although the error messages are not that clear. My current solution is to take a laptop to another room with an internet connection, let it sit for an hour and then bring it back to connect the local network where finally the other computers will accept it and synchronize with it. Questions: How can I configure a client/peer to always accept a server as good enough or atleast always accept the server when no other server can be contacted? (please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: How can I configure a server to always consider itself good enough and report that (lie if necessary) so that any badly configured client will still connect?(please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
Exactly so. you can purchase a GPS receiver for well under $100 connect it to a serial port + pps on any of the pc's and have microsecond accuracy in a few hours. This 'master' can then serve time to all other PC's. The systems will then behave for years of unattended use. It is a far more cost effective solution. regards pk -Original Message- From: questions-bounces+p.kennedy=fugro.com...@lists.ntp.org [mailto:questions-bounces+p.kennedy=fugro.com...@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Elliott Sent: Wednesday, 1 August 2012 8:26 AM To: 'Will Shackleford'; questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks Unruh had the correct advice: Buy a (cheap) GPS device for a master clock and propagate the correct time. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Become a force, develop a reputation, for progress, one of the foundations of Western Civilization. The new BU-353, not the old one you can find for about $30, but the one that costs about $42, at USGlobalSat.com will do the job within a half second or better, and it is trivial to set up. All you need is a free USB port and a window, or preferably a thin roof, that faces the satellites. The Sure (search for Sure Electronics) GPS demo board is supposed to give much more accurate time, but it is a pain to set up. There are beaucoup people on this list that know a lot more about GPS clocks than I and most are willing to help, if you just ask. Meinberg at www.meinberg.de sells lots of very accurate clocks, and there are several other places like it. Search for GPS clocks or NTP clocks. Charles Elliott -Original Message- From: questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org [mailto:questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of Will Shackleford Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:47 AM To: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks We have several computers with several different operating systems on a local network with no radios and no internet connection. The main goal is to keep them synchronized with each other. One frustration I have had is that clients tend to refuse to connect to servers on the network that are not good enough. I assume not good enough means too high a stratum although the error messages are not that clear. My current solution is to take a laptop to another room with an internet connection, let it sit for an hour and then bring it back to connect the local network where finally the other computers will accept it and synchronize with it. Questions: How can I configure a client/peer to always accept a server as good enough or atleast always accept the server when no other server can be contacted? (please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: How can I configure a server to always consider itself good enough and report that (lie if necessary) so that any badly configured client will still connect?(please answer for any platform below you can) Fedora 6: Fedora 10: Fedora 14: Ubuntu 11.04: Windows XP: Just for my own curiosity, why is just refusing to do what the operator wants the default behavior for clients/peers? Why not always synchronize as well as you can with whichever peers/hosts you can contact? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] WARNING: someone's faking a leap second tonight
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:23:35 PM UTC-7, Marco Marongiu wrote: Hi all This is just to warn you that there are now some NTP servers around the globe spreading a leap second announcement for tomorrow 00:00:00 UTC (so, basically, in a few hours now). If you didn't take action before the leapocalypse last month, you better hurry now. Ciao -- bronto Yes, this affected us. Can someone explain why this was done? Was it designed to be a test of some kind? The Linux leap second kernel bug that was discovered a month ago was only patched on July 17; that patched kernel has presumably not made it to many (most?) people yet. So if it's a test it seems wildly premature. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP on local networks
-Original Message- From: questions-bounces+p.kennedy=fugro.com...@lists.ntp.org [mailto:questions-bounces+p.kennedy=fugro.com...@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Elliott Sent: Wednesday, 1 August 2012 8:26 AM To: 'Will Shackleford'; questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: NTP on local networks Unruh had the correct advice: Buy a (cheap) GPS device for a master clock and propagate the correct time. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Become a force, develop a reputation, for progress, one of the foundations of Western Civilization. The new BU-353, not the old one you can find for about $30, but the one that costs about $42, at USGlobalSat.com will do the job within a half second or better, and it is trivial to set up. All you need is a free USB port and a window, or preferably a thin roof, that faces the satellites. The Sure (search for Sure Electronics) GPS demo board is supposed to give much more accurate time, but it is a pain to set up. There are beaucoup people on this list that know a lot more about GPS clocks than I and most are willing to help, if you just ask. Meinberg at www.meinberg.de sells lots of very accurate clocks, and there are several other places like it. Search for GPS clocks or NTP clocks. Charles Elliott This post never made it to the newsgroup, so perhaps the gateway is stuck or very slow? I have information on my Web site on the easy-to-use Sure GPS, as well as the low-cost Garmin GPS 18x LVC. http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm Mine are using simple puck antennas, indoors, on the top floor of a two-storey building. Be aware that USB-connected devices will give far less accuracy than serial-port connected ones, but may be adequate if half-a second is all you need. -- Cheers, David Web: http://www.satsignal.eu ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
