Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I went ahead and added some info on the difference between Racket and Python appends to https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki/Python-to-Racket . Sorry to whoever for the salvo of poorly documented revisions. On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 12:21 AM David Van Horn wrote: > I've updated the docs to get

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I've updated the docs to get to the point faster with some early examples. http://dvanhorn.github.io/ralist/ David On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 5:21 PM John Clements wrote: > I struggled with whether to send that message… I saw the name, “random > access lists”, thought, “hmm, I wonder what that

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I struggled with whether to send that message… I saw the name, “random access lists”, thought, “hmm, I wonder what that would like”, and clicked on the link. I wound up reading a bit about whether I should use (first impresssion) superficial or in-depth contracts, and ran out of steam pretty

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

There are several examples for every function provided by the ralist library. (And it's almost verbatim what's in the Racket reference for pairs and lists.) But... I can add some early examples. No problem. David On Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 4:00 PM John Clements wrote: > The pointer to RaLists

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

The pointer to RaLists would be much more enticing if we could convince David Van Horn to begin his documentation with a couple of small examples…. John > On Feb 13, 2019, at 14:35, Stephen De Gabrielle > wrote: > > Thanks > > I should note that anyone with a GitHub account can edit >

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Thanks I should note that anyone with a GitHub account can edit https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki/Python-to-Racket S. On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 21:26, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > Not until there’s demand. I think we do see demand for Python transfers. > > > > > On Feb 13, 2019, at 3:11 PM,

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Should there be similar pages for Javascript, Java,C#, C/C++, Ruby, PHP, Visual Basic, Scratch and Haskell? S. On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:03 PM Stephen De Gabrielle < spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote: > I created a DRAFT page on the Racket GitHub wiki: >

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I created a DRAFT page on the Racket GitHub wiki: https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki/Python-to-Racket It links to a 'Choosing a data structure' page https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki/Choosing-a-data-structure - this just as copy of the table created by Jens Axel Søgaard at:

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

For anyone creating such a web page for Python to Racket specifically, there is probably a great deal of inspiration, and reminders of stumbling blocks, to be found in Arne Babenhauserheide's https://www.draketo.de/py2guile book (available online for free) about going from Python to Guile Scheme.

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Great. Let’s include this link in Alex’s write up as an example of a concrete comparison. Even if such simple benchmarks don’t reflect daily, end-to-end programs, they can help people by dispelling some prejudices. Thanks — Matthias > On Feb 4, 2019, at 11:56 AM, Gustavo Massaccesi wrote:

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

For some reason, the Racket vs Python performance is a question that arise from time to time in Hacke News (like 2 or 3 times per year). Last time I asked if it was possible to add a direct comparison in The Computer Language Benchmarks Game and the owner/maintainer added that page. The results

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Agreed! > On Feb 3, 2019, at 4:43 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > > It seems like a great addition to the performance section of the guide. > > Robby > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 3:35 PM Matthias Felleisen > wrote: > > 1. I think this is a great start for a

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

It seems like a great addition to the performance section of the guide. Robby On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 3:35 PM Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > 1. I think this is a great start for a generic introduction to data > structures. Someone should integrate Jens’s short table: > > >

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

1. I think this is a great start for a generic introduction to data structures. Someone should integrate Jens’s short table: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27584416/in-racket-what-is-the-advantage-of-lists-over-vectors/27589146#27589146

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

This is very nice! Robby On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:37 PM Alex Harsanyi wrote: > > I put together some notes about available data structures in Racket, with > some performance considerations. It needs more work, but perhaps it can be > used as a starting point and it can be added to the Racket

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

FWIW here is an overview over data structures in Racket: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27584416/in-racket-what-is-the-advantage-of-lists-over-vectors/27589146#27589146 /Jens Axel Den søn. 3. feb. 2019 kl. 05.37 skrev Alex Harsanyi : > > I put together some notes about available data

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I put together some notes about available data structures in Racket, with some performance considerations. It needs more work, but perhaps it can be used as a starting point and it can be added to the Racket wiki, if/when others consider it adequate:

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Racket needs *you*. Please. The proper approach is to have short pages for different language immigration groups: Python and R come to mind as obvious examples but I am sure there are others. What I mean is we need help and *you* can help. Let me explain it with the Python example: 1.

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I am certain people coming from Python are confused by this, since I was bitten by this very difference when I had to write some Python for the first time in a while. (What do you mean append has side-effects?!?) -Philip On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:30 AM Robby Findler wrote: > On Sat, Feb 2,

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:23 AM George Neuner wrote: > > > On 2/2/2019 9:38 AM, Robby Findler wrote: > > Lists seem like a common pitfall here, due to the overlap in > > terminology but not functionality/performance. Maybe the right thing > > is to add a library to data/ that is the python list

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

On 2/2/2019 9:38 AM, Robby Findler wrote: Lists seem like a common pitfall here, due to the overlap in terminology but not functionality/performance. Maybe the right thing is to add a library to data/ that is the python list data structure and point to it from the list documentation? The

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

I agree with that 100%. On Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 9:46 AM Robby Findler Oh, right! Mentioning python in the list docs seems like it might help. > > Robby > > On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 8:45 AM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt > wrote: > >> Fortunately there are already libraries with good performance on these >>

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Oh, right! Mentioning python in the list docs seems like it might help. Robby On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 8:45 AM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Fortunately there are already libraries with good performance on these > operations for Racket, so we could point to the data/ralist library, > for example.

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Fortunately there are already libraries with good performance on these operations for Racket, so we could point to the data/ralist library, for example. Sam On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:38 AM Robby Findler wrote: > > Lists seem like a common pitfall here, due to the overlap in terminology but >

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Lists seem like a common pitfall here, due to the overlap in terminology but not functionality/performance. Maybe the right thing is to add a library to data/ that is the python list data structure and point to it from the list documentation? Robby On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 12:28 AM Alex Harsanyi

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

On February 2, 2019 7:28:12 AM GMT+01:00, Alex Harsanyi wrote: >Someone asked recently for help on Reddit[1] with a Racket performance >issue. >The problem was they they were constructing a large list by appending >many >short lists repeatedly; their code was calling `(set! result (append

Re: [racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Alex Harsanyi wrote on 2/2/19 1:28 AM: One improvement that I can think of is to add a performance description to each function that operates on the basic data structures (lists, vectors, hash-tables) Before complete coverage, perhaps two first steps: * Try to think of the minority of

[racket-users] Python's append vs Racket's append and helping novices understand the implications

Someone asked recently for help on Reddit[1] with a Racket performance issue. The problem was they they were constructing a large list by appending many short lists repeatedly; their code was calling `(set! result (append result shortList))` in a loop and this was slow (unsurprisingly.) While