On 09/17/2015 11:03 PM, Anthony Carrico wrote:
> Really what I'm trying to say is that the language implementation
> wants the freedom to adjust your program without having to be
> constrained by eq tests that you might do. One example of this is
> contracts. I might wish to be accept a function yo
On 09/17/2015 11:03 PM, Anthony Carrico wrote:
> Really what I'm trying to say is that the language implementation
> wants the freedom to adjust your program without having to be
> constrained by eq tests that you might do. One example of this is
> contracts. I might wish to be accept a function yo
>> On 09/17/2015 09:27 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
> No, you're not learning something, even in that case. Well, I suppose
> you might say that you're learning it didn't return #t, but what that
> really means is "try harder". I consider check-eq? and friends a
> mistake, symbols I've already mentione
It looks like it is a perennial truth of the universe that math is
hard. I don't know of a language ecosystem where "equals" is 'easy',
because it is subjective. Seems like offering different kinds of
equality testing is a reasonable approach. Having any kind of
preferred fundamental equality testi
This exchange fell off the list accidentally:
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Anthony Carrico
wrote:
> On 09/17/2015 09:27 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>> eq? on symbols is a special part of the specification and that seems
>> benign to me, all things considered. The "giant hash in the sky" that
>>
True.
Robby
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
wrote:
> I don't know if it's really fixable -- equal? has to check that both
> arguments are symbols before producing #f, which is work that eq? doesn't
> do. Perhaps the difference can be reduced, though.
>
> Sam
>
>
> On Thu, Se
I don't know if it's really fixable -- equal? has to check that both
arguments are symbols before producing #f, which is work that eq? doesn't
do. Perhaps the difference can be reduced, though.
Sam
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:13 PM Robby Findler
wrote:
> Sounds like something I would try to fix if
Sounds like something I would try to fix if I had time to really focus
on the eq? semantic question :(
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
wrote:
> Unfortunately, that's only true when eq? produces #t, which probably isn't
> an issue when using eq? directly, but can be when using
Good to know. In that case, "just use `equal?`" is probably good advice
for new Racket people.
Personally, I'm super-comfortable with `eq?` for symbols (since, as you
know, it's a basic thing that's been used very heavily in Lisps for
old-school AI and compilers and such). So I might as well
Unfortunately, that's only true when eq? produces #t, which probably isn't
an issue when using eq? directly, but can be when using memq or similar.
This benchmark suggests about a 10x speed difference when the symbols are
different: http://pasterack.org/pastes/94877
Sam
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 9:52
FWIW, if you use equal? in those cases, you'll get the same
performance behavior and you will have fewer eq?s to audit when things
go wonky.
;)
Robby
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
> Whew. :) I only rarely have a non-symbol use for `eq?`, but I use `eq?`
> heavily for sy
Whew. :) I only rarely have a non-symbol use for `eq?`, but I use `eq?`
heavily for symbols in everyday application code.
Robby Findler wrote on 09/17/2015 09:27 PM:
eq? on symbols is a special part of the specification and that seems
benign to me, all things considered. The "giant hash in the
eq? on symbols is a special part of the specification and that seems
benign to me, all things considered. The "giant hash in the sky" that
makes sure that works isn't exactly trouble free, but we seem to have
it under control.
Robby
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
> Robby F
Robby Findler wrote on 09/17/2015 09:18 PM:
I think that we need to work harder to deemphasize eq?, and warn
people that, when eq? returns #f, really you learned nothing (like you
need to pretend you just didn't even call eq?). If it returns #t, then
you learn something, of course.
What about `
I think that we need to work harder to deemphasize eq?, and warn
people that, when eq? returns #f, really you learned nothing (like you
need to pretend you just didn't even call eq?). If it returns #t, then
you learn something, of course.
Robby
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:03 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
Yes, there is a larger issue here. In general, the typed/untyped boundary
may change the eq? behavior. Some types won't (opaque types from the
untyped side, monomorphic struct types from the typed side) but in general
you won't get stable eq? results.
Sam
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 8:04 PM Anthony Car
On 09/17/2015 04:40 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
> Unfortunately, the problem isn't just macros -- the underlying functions
> that actually implement RackUnit would have to be copied into Typed
> Racket. I don't know a way to make `check-eq?` work that doesn't require
> duplicating code. :(
Is t
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote:
>
> Our experience is that building shared libraries on a machine with
> GLibC 2.12 produces shared libraries that work most everywhere. In
> other words, you should rebuild the shared libraries on that ancient
> Linux installation, and then yo
Our experience is that building shared libraries on a machine with
GLibC 2.12 produces shared libraries that work most everywhere. In
other words, you should rebuild the shared libraries on that ancient
Linux installation, and then you're probably in good shape for the
foreseeable future.
At Thu,
Okay, really, this question as not that much to do with Racket, but…
As part of the ‘portaudio’ package, there are a number of shared libraries. It
turns out that I’m going to be teaching in a room running an ancient Linux
(CentOS 6?), and when I try to start portaudio, I get an error message
i
At Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:53:59 -0400, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
> Is it OK if I *exclude* the HTML rendering of the docs from the files
> included in the packaging altogether (which would give me the below
> files)?
That sounds right to me.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the
OK, instead of "doc.scrbl", I'll have ".scrbl".
Is it OK if I *exclude* the HTML rendering of the docs from the files included
in the packaging altogether (which would give me the below files)?
* info.rkt (the usual)
* somepackage.rkt (the full implementation with embedded docs, for my
packag
Be sure not to use the name "doc" for the document, but instead a name
that is connected to the package (because all documents are rendered to
the same place in installation scope). In other words, either make the
document source "somepackage.scrbl" or use "somepackage" as the
document name in the
I'm going to try to retool for the new package system by the end of the
weekend, and have a couple questions...
What's the current preferred convention on what documentation-related
files are included in the package? And is that convention expected to
remain stable for a year or more?
For e
Hi All,
I'm embarking on a rather ambitious neural network project and would very much
like to avoid python/numpy/theano route and stay within Racket.
The only aspect that is giving me pause is that I expect my network will be
large enough that I would have to use GPU acceleration for it to
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> wait, who needs tests when you have static typing?! sheesh
Really though, Typed Racket might benefit from a non-rackunit library that
encourages a different style of testing.
(Instead of duplicating all the rackunit code.)
--
You receiv
Unfortunately, the problem isn't just macros -- the underlying functions
that actually implement RackUnit would have to be copied into Typed Racket.
I don't know a way to make `check-eq?` work that doesn't require
duplicating code. :(
Sam
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:34 PM Lehi Toskin wrote:
> On T
(why are there 2 racke users groups? confusing.)
wait, who needs tests when you have static typing?! sheesh
:-)
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On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:06:40 PM UTC-7, Anthony Carrico wrote:
> Unfortunately, rackunit doesn't mix that well with typed/racket (see
> problem reports 15153, 15143). I guess this is because of the
> typed/untyped boundary.
>
> The good news is that it is fairly easy to work around the
Hello Jay,
Thanks, I've figured out the raco incantation beforehand. I should've
read more about the docs before asking.
One other question that slipped my mind before, about wildcards. Let's
take this example again:
(define *db* (make-theory))
(datalog *db*
;; shareholders
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Greg Hendershott
wrote:
> [I do have places where I dynamic-require X with a fallback if it
> doesn't exist. That's not too bad; at least it's a
> capability-available flavor test. But that wouldn't work in this
> case, I'd need to check a Racket version number, w
Okay, thank you Matthew.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote:
> At Thu, 17 Sep 2015 21:29:35 +0800, WarGrey Gyoudmon Ju wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Matthew Flatt
> wrote:
> >
> > > But, also, to use either of those, you need to use "xform" to adjustthe
> > > C
I would do "raco pkg update --clone datalog" from "$PLTHOME/extra-pkgs"
Jay
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Eduardo Bellani wrote:
>
> Hello Jay, thanks for your time.
>
> I'll try the update asap. One question to anyone, what would the the
> canonical way of fetching such an update in racket's
> If a comment can swallow everything up to a single newline, could it
> swallow everything up to the first non-whitespace character after the
> current line? (This is what TeX's % does.)
Doesn't it already?
#lang at-exp racket
'@stuff{
Hello@; John
World
}
'(stuff "HelloWorld")
See a
Yes, in that case. I meant more the following:
#lang at-exp racket
'@stuff{
Hello@; John
World
}
which currently produces '(stuff "Hello" "\n" " " "World").
On 9/17/2015 2:28 PM, Matthew Butterick
wrote:
Hello Jay, thanks for your time.
I'll try the update asap. One question to anyone, what would the the
canonical way of fetching such an update in racket's package system?
Jay McCarthy writes:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Eduardo Bellani wrote:
>> Hello list
>>
>> I'm trying to use rack
I made a little repo to have Travis CI run this on various Racket
versions back to 5.3.4:
https://travis-ci.org/greghendershott/errortrace-submod-namespace/builds/80868223
Apparently it's "never" worked up through 6.2.1. But does now work in
HEAD, as you said.
As for the desirability of a wo
On 17/09/15 16:30, Jay McCarthy wrote:
> In contrast, this will fail:
>
>(define my-eval
> (make-module-evaluator
> '(module m racket/base
> (require racket/serialize)
> (define-serializable-struct point (x y)
>
> (define external-point-rep (my-eval '(serialize
Jay,
Thanks for that response.
I was struggling to simplify my demonstration... but I see the same
error with your example; so I’m trying to apply the thinking to my code.
Regards,
Tim
On 17/09/15 16:30, Jay McCarthy wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> Your code is a little more complicated than I can grok
Ah, I forgot to try DrRacket v6.2, and I do see the problem there.
I don't see the problem with DrRacket or errortrace in the current
development version, though. I think you're right that it should work,
and it looks like the problem has been fixed for the next version (but
it would be great if y
Hi Tim,
Your code is a little more complicated than I can grok directly. I
believe that you problem does not have to with the web-language, but
just with using serialize.
The serialize output format is basically an s-expression, but every
time a non-prefab struct appears it has a cons of the name
If a comment can swallow everything up to a single newline, could it
swallow everything up to the first non-whitespace character after the
current line? (This is what TeX's % does.) So you wouldn't have to
change scribble/decode at all, just the @-reader. Effectively, the only
added constrain
Having a line comment swallow a newline is helpful when you want to
break up something in the source without a break in the output, as in
Hello@;
World
=>
"HelloWorld"
I imagine that Eli adopted that feature of @-expressions from TeX.
At Thu, 17 Sep 2015 10:59:51 -0400, "Alexander D. Knauth" w
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Matthew Flatt wrote:
> Can you say more about how you're running this program? I get `42` all
> four times when running this program with `racket` or in DrRacket.
Well I could have sworn I got the error to happen last night in plain
racket. Apparently I was debug
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Eduardo Bellani wrote:
> Hello list
>
> I'm trying to use racket's implementation of datalog as a query language
> for a small database (5 gb). I'm running into some problems that I'd
> appreciate your help with:
>
> * Is there support for negating a subgoal? E.g:
I forgot to include the list:
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Alexander D. Knauth
> wrote:
>
> Is there any reason why
> #lang at-exp racket
> '@stuff{
> Hello @; John
>
> World
> }
> Shouldn't produce
> '(stuff "Hello " "\n" "\n" "World")
> Instead of
> '(stuff "Hello " "\n" "World")
> ?
> In
Scribble can't be changed to match LaTeX without changing @-expression
reader at a fairly fundamental way, and I'm skeptical of the change.
Scribble's input is handled in three steps: @-expression parsing to
produce a syntax object (i.e., enriched S-expression), Racket expansion
and evaluation of
Can you say more about how you're running this program? I get `42` all
four times when running this program with `racket` or in DrRacket.
At Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:08:00 -0400, Greg Hendershott wrote:
> I'm working on adding better submodule support in racket-mode, which
> entails using module->names
At Thu, 17 Sep 2015 21:29:35 +0800, WarGrey Gyoudmon Ju wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote:
>
> > But, also, to use either of those, you need to use "xform" to adjustthe
> > C code for GC, or you need to adjust the C code to cooperate explicitly
> > with the GC using MZ
Folks,
I’ve raised PR “request-structs.rkt : don’t need all of net/url #7” on
racket/web-server . Please could someone look at it for me?
When I want to use a serialized continuations in sandboxes, I need to
use the language web-server/lang/base, which performs the
transformations necessary for t
Folks,
The attached file exp-serialize-continuation.rkt implements
“define-generator”, which defines a generator. The resultant generators
take a “key”, which allows several generator states to be saved for
later use (in a (key -> continuation) hash table).
So far, so good: It works as expected w
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