Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Daniel Prager
One area where a notion of Project comes in handy is with cross-file refactoring. E.g. Right now I am in the midst of renaming a #:keyword and resorting to grep to find dependencies in other files. Is there a smarter existing way of doing this kind of thing in DrRacket? Or is this a use-case for f

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Laurent
Thanks, that clarifies the point. The manifesto maybe puts it too strictly indeed. On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > Thanks for sending this, again. I was writing a response very > much along these lines when your post came in. > > 1. No, we cannot and will not repla

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Thanks for sending this, again. I was writing a response very much along these lines when your post came in. 1. No, we cannot and will not replace all tools. Quite the opposite, I foresee a future in which we will produce many more tools. [Your effort will make me think twice before I write a

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Greg Hendershott
I didn't understand the manifesto as saying Racket should try to be a lisp machine or OS (we already have Emacs for that :)) or that all external tools are bad (despite what I wrote quickly; sorry). Instead I understood it to mean, let's minimize gratuitous tools that do stuff that would be more na

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Konrad Hinsen
Laurent writes: > Furthermore, files and github are not chosen by Racket, so I don't > personally mind that much using a few external tools if Racket > can't do it itself (I'd still rather have Racket do it itself of > course; I want a Racket machine). What's more, whether `raco` is I'd go on

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-26 Thread Laurent
That's also what I understand, and I find this philosophy pretty appealing too, for what it's worth. However it still worries me as this sounds a like "I'm not wearing shoes because the problem is not your feet but the pavement; What we need is a pavement that makes it possible to walk without sho

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-25 Thread Stephen De Gabrielle
I think this only prohibits projects as an 'extra linguistic' mechanism. I think extending #lang info is probably fine? Maybe even a '#lang project' would be ok? (but I'm not sure what that would do) S. --- 3. Racket turns extra-linguistic mechanisms into linguistic constructs. When programmers

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-25 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Thank you Greg. I couldn't have said it any better (probably worse). This is exactly the point -- Matthias On Mar 25, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Greg Hendershott wrote: > My personal/casual take on this: > > There are language systems where you to need to run some > make-a-new-project tool -- even

Re: [racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-25 Thread Greg Hendershott
My personal/casual take on this: There are language systems where you to need to run some make-a-new-project tool -- even for a single source file. In Racket you can create multi-file collections without needing such a tool. Only at the point where you want to package it share with others, do you

[racket-users] Projects (was: the Racket manifesto)

2015-03-25 Thread Laurent
In the manifesto, I'm a bit surprised by the following: > this philosophy prohibits the idea of “projects,” as found in other IDEs, > because this also externalizes resource management, linking, and other > aspects of program creation. Couldn't one call package designing a project? Sure, a packa