Putting in a plug here for Modern Bike. Andy has Paul Components in stock
at about 30% off across the board. His service is excellent.
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 1:41:43 AM UTC-6, Mike Shaljian wrote:
Indeed. Long-reach calipers was the obvious choice, don't think I'd bother
I think it depends on your bike. Strangely, on my 700C (64cm) Sam Hillborne the
brake pads are at the very lowest position in the huge adjustment range on the
Motolites. I would love to have gone 650B on my recent wheel re-builds to get a
650X42mm tire, but the strange canti stud placement on
Indeed. Long-reach calipers was the obvious choice, don't think I'd bother
though. I question the handling change at 650b on a Sam.
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:58:05 PM UTC-8, Leslie wrote:
Mike, I'm confused on my 650b Bombadil, I have Motolites, and could
raise the pads to run
Mike, I'm confused on my 650b Bombadil, I have Motolites, and could
raise the pads to run 700c wheels with it, but to go from a 700c to a 650b
(as I did w/ my Rambouillet), you have to use long-reach calipers, not
canti's ??
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 1:37:51 PM UTC-5, Mike
Thanks Ted,
Sorry for the tone. Maybe pot brownies and internet forum physics lessons
are things I shouldn't mix?
On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 5:04:47 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
Z,
Thanks for this exposition. I understand this approach. The downside of it
is that to get it right you must
I've been thinking about getting a pair as I got dirt drops. Need something
a bit more stopping power than my campy cx cantis. Do you think they will
fit 26x2.0 big bens?
On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 11:09:47 PM UTC-5, Mike Shaljian wrote:
Have you considered getting Paul Motolites? I
Zach,
I thought your tone was fine. Sorry if mine was off. I didn't mean to come
off snarky or offended or anything.
Regards
Ted
On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 7:41:02 AM UTC-8, Zach A wrote:
Thanks Ted,
Sorry for the tone. Maybe pot brownies and internet forum physics lessons
are
I thought pot brownies complemented all life activities???
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Z ztahr...@uwalumni.com wrote:
Thanks Ted,
Sorry for the tone. Maybe pot brownies and internet forum physics lessons
are things I shouldn't mix?
On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 5:04:47 PM UTC-7,
Hey Michael,
Thanks for the nice clarification. I think I get what you mean now.
I would never dream of asking you to move your straddle cable. What works
works and that's an irrefutable tautology. The explanation or rational
about why it works, now thats where I have been know to dive badly
On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:26:03 AM UTC-8, Clayton wrote:
I have to jump in here.. I have always been taught and discovered on my
own, that the straddle cable should be as close to perpendicular, or at 90
degrees, to the center of the brake pad lever *when it hits the rim*.
You
Have you considered getting Paul Motolites? I hated cantis and then switched to
V-brakes, but struggled to find a reliable, high-performance V-brake. The
Motolite is just that: powerful, reliable and of course pretty. I added a brake
booster to the front and they are dynamite now.
--
You
Z,
Thanks for this exposition. I understand this approach. The downside of it
is that to get it right you must do some trig to keep track of the
variation in the tangent force magnitude. The tension in the straddle wire
increase the flatter it gets. Of course you never get near the theoretical
Sorry for the confusion, I certainly mis wrote that and maybe even mis
thought it. My understanding, in a less technical way, is what Ted wrote.
In my simple minded way, here's how I envision it. The longer a lever is
from the fulcrum the more mechanical advantage it has, but that also
If you like your brakes, THAT is how you should run them. Everything comes down
to what you like in the end. After all, they are just bicycles..CRACKA TAKA
BOOM! Damn, just had to duck a thunderboltlol.
Clayton (Bend)
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Ted, et al engineer types: I happily bow to your knowledge on the angles
and leverage, though I was told the opposite (as I understood it) before I
made the change. Interestingly, either way, the experience went from slushy
brakes (short saddle cable, 90˚ intersection with the brake arm) and
my next purchase after I sell a couple of more rods (hopefully this weekend
at TroutFest). Only I'm using the touring on both ends to keep the width
down
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/bulldog1935/Raleigh/Viner/aP2190001.jpg
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-6, Deacon
Deacon,
I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. I
suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that you
understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily
they still steered you to something that worked for you.
The
Deacon,
I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees has
always been the position which yielded the greatest stopping power for me.
With my neo-retro's (Aka the 'weaker' of the paul canti's) I have the cable
long and up high, and I have enough power to lift up the back
Ok. I'm out of my element. Going riding [?]
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:52 PM, ted ted.ke...@comcast.net wrote:
Mark,
From the BQ writeup you cite
The angle of the straddle cable also af- fects the mechanical advantage. A
low straddle cable means that the pads travel less for a given brake
always the best plan
On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 2:54:52 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
Ok. I'm out of my element. Going riding
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:52 PM, ted ted@comcast.net javascript:
wrote:
Mark,
From the BQ writeup you cite
The angle of the straddle cable also af-
I learned this over 20 years plus of using and working on cantilever brakes. I
set up brakes for mountain bike race teams in the late 80's and early 90's. I
am sorry, but your armchair theory does not translate to real bikes in my
experience. I run canti's on my Crux. The greatest feel and max
I'm also pro V-brake but they just don't work with 60 mm tyres and fenders.
It's gotta be cantis for me!
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Clayton,
Your reasoning is mostly wrong, and your stick analogy does not apply.
I think you are forgetting that the straddle wire provides mechanical
advantage. A small side force on a relatively straight cable produces a
large tension in the cable. In theory, if the cable is straight the
Mark,
From the BQ writeup you cite
The angle of the straddle cable also af- fects the mechanical advantage. A
low straddle cable means that the pads travel less for a given brake lever
pull. Less travel means more power.
and
Unless the straddle cable is at a right angle to the brake arm, the
Oops, here's the BQ article:
http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQCantiSetup.pdf
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote:
Deacon,
I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees has
always been the position which yielded the greatest
It's good for big-foot heel clearance, too. I have Tektro 720s on the front
of my Quickbeam, and the original low-profile brakes on the rear. The rear
CR720s hit my foot sometimes, so I switched that brake back to stock.
I'd call the CR720s pretty (I like the look more than the Pauls), and
I also appreciate how easy it is to rebuild Paul's brakes. All the parts
are available at a reasonable cost. Last a life time. Once you get past an
initial learning curve they are pretty easy to adjust and hold their
adjustment very well.
Many years ago, while commuting home I was involved in
Ted,
Envision one half of a cantilever brake setup. There is an axis between
the points where the straddle cable attaches and the brake pivots. We'll
call this The Axis. Now envision a force vector along the straddle cable.
If you conceptually break down that vector into components which
Michael,
I am confused.
Are you saying that not enough mechanical advantage causes the lever will
bottom out, or that too much will?
Do you agree with Mark that 90 deg. gives the best stopping power, and say
that 45 degrees gives the most power?
Are you distinguishing between pure power and
Of course you should like what you like, and may believe whatever you like.
However as it seems you realize, good brakes are about more than just
mechanical advantage. Though your experience has taught you that 90deg.
gives the best brakes it does not follow that 90deg gives maximum
mechanical
Paul brakes are the best! I race cross with a pair of neo retro's. Can't
imagine ever needing more brake. I can easily lock up the wheels if I wanted
too. Nice and smooth modular braking. I tried using trp cx8.4's and hated them
compared to the Paul's. I'd love a pair of touring brakes on my
Ted,
Envision one half of a cantilever brake setup. There is an axis between
the points where the straddle cable attaches and the brake pivots. We'll
call this The Axis. Now envision a force vector along the straddle cable.
If you conceptually break down that vector into components which
Oh... I forgot to mention that brake feel is more important than outright power
anyway. Bikes have a small contact patch. It's important to know exactly when
your tire is at max adhesion at maximum braking, and not past it. I bow out
now...bye.
Clay
On Friday, February 20, 2015 2:34 PM,
I have to jump in here.. I have always been taught and discovered on my
own, that the straddle cable should be as close to perpendicular, or at 90
degrees, to the center of the brake pad lever *when it hits the rim*. You
can do this experiment on your own. Get a stick. Tie a string to it. Lay
Clayton-
I too, have a love for non-canti's. Paul's MiniMotos make my heart sing.
However I was set to go with Tektros (even after a bad experience with them
years ago) and this thread made me rethink. I searched locally and found a
cross racer moving to Vs on his CX bike and he offloaded his
Great find, Justin!
With abandon,
Patrick
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To post to this
I too agree. Mechanical advantage is important to avoid having the lever
bottom out before the brake fully engages, but pure power will be maximized
when the straddle cable is 45 degrees to the arm. Hence the neo retros
require a higher straddle cable than the touring cantis to maximize
The old Tektro pad material was truly horrible, I'm not sure if they have
improved it in the last few years, as even though I still buy Tektros I
replace the pads before they even go on a bike.
I have Paul Neo-Retros (kool stop blk pads) on the Heron and CR720's with
Salmon pads on the rSogn
I also didn't really like the CR720s. Tried them on two bikes, always Kool
Stop salmon pads, and in the end I switched to Shimano CX70s, which are
much more flexible (in theory you could set them up with more or less MA
than the Tektros) and have a lot less slop on the posts than the CR720s.
Kellie, I went with touring in the back because I got them used and that's
the set up that was available. It's a set up common to folks who want the
most power for the front brake, and clearance for panniers in the rear.
Ted, lengthening the saddle cable make the angle of the brake cable to the
Hey Deac, any brake judder on the Neo front?
KJ
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 6:53:31 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
Thanks to Peter for the new to me brakes, I just replaced the Tektro
(720?) brakes (whatever was stock) on the Quickbeam with Paul Touring canti
in the rear and
Well this answers my question about if I should go cheap to rebuild the
SimpleOne...
-J
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 3:53:31 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
Thanks to Peter for the new to me brakes, I just replaced the Tektro
(720?) brakes (whatever was stock) on the Quickbeam with
No brake judder in the initial wee test, and there would have been with the
Tektros on that same test. I'm stunned with the difference.
With abandon,
Patrick
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Curious why you went with the retro up front and the touring in the back? I
switched to Paul center pulls from side pull. I had the same experience;
they
are wonderful! What are the pedals you have there in the photo?
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 3:53:31 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
Kellie, the pedals are VO pedals. I've returned them for a refund due to
bearing issues with two attempts. They worked fine for a few rides, then
began clacking. Not build for single speed hill climbing on Pikes Peak, I
guess. Sardonic grin. VO was great to work with in getting a second pair
Deacon,
The thing is, that definitely does not increase the leverage.
The the vertical component of the tension in the straddle cable is equal to
the tension in the brake cable (well half on each side).
Lengthening the straddle cable reduces the tension in it as well as
changing the angle at
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