Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

I remember Irv Weisman from my days with the New York Cycle Club. When I knew him (early 90s) he was not known for his helmet, but more for his obsession with gearing that would not destroy his knees. As a relatively young speedster at that time, I looked at his charts with amusement. What

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

P.S. I did not intend anecdote in any pejorative sense! Cheers. *a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing **nature*. On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 4:36:46 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > As I pointed out in my 'anecdote,' concerns

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

I am thankful to live in a country that is founded with a Constitution that supports FREEDOMS like SPEECH. I am thankful for a group of "like-minded" cyclists who all share a personal conviction and passion for an activity they love. I have read the aforementioned article and all corresponding

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/25/2015 10:21 AM, Lungimsam wrote: For many years humans rode horses without helmets. Even now people ride horses without helmets, except for the dressage peeps, I think. I wonder if they have the same helmet issues as cyclists? People died from falls from horses all the time. --

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Is saying "You are riding on the wrong side of the road!" shaming? Is telling somebody who is wandering all over the road "Hold your line!" or "HEADS UP!" shaming? How about ringing your bell when somebody coming towards you on the bike trail wanders over into your lane? Is that shaming too?

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/25/2015 01:46 PM, Doug Williams wrote: As a bicycle safety instructor, I am tired of people labeling cyclists as "good" or "bad" solely on the basis of helmet use. Riding the wrong way against traffic is just one example of bad (and quite common) behavior, but it is WAY more dangerous

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/25/2015 03:08 PM, Garth wrote: This so called "minimzing risk" misses the mark completely ! As if "some" risk is better than some "other" amount . Of course a smaller risk is better than a greater risk. If you wait for cars to pass before you walk across the road, you are

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

As I pointed out in my 'anecdote,' concerns about lack of control or existence of cars weren't the reason helmets were developed, and they weren't the reason for the adoption of helmets by /your/ local bike club, back in the day. In fact, I'll tell you another anecdote. I started wearing a

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Your anecdote is interesting, but it has nothing to do with the statement I made. I believe a. many more people would ride bikes if cars were more under control, and b. many of them would not be concerned about a helmet. On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 9:32:14 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Michael, Good point about what helmets are designed to prevent. Last summer, during an otherwise pleasant off-road ride, I had a low speed crash

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Nah... it's OK. It's getting cold out. We have snow and ice in the Midwest (I am in Wisconsin), so a bit of civilized debating isn't out of order. Hanging the bike on the hooks for a few months is tough. On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > You are never

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

You are never going to hear, oops my bad, I was wearing my helmet and gloves and shouldn't have been. Helmet and gloves are the basic equipment you need to ride a bike, and there is no downside to them. Been witnessing this topic for years on several boards, but this is by far the dumbest it

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

if you ride in pedestrians and deer, you should add a bell. If you ride in traffic you should have lights (the pedestrians like a solid headlight, too - they thank me all the time for my light and bell) On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > You are never going

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

if you haven't fallen off your bike yet, you will - that is the event that makes you ride with trepidation. On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 7:19:28 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > if you ride in pedestrians and deer, you should add a bell. If you ride > in traffic you should have lights (the

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/25/2015 08:23 AM, Ron Mc wrote: if you haven't fallen off your bike yet, you will - that is the event that makes you ride with trepidation. You bet. Even the most experience and the greatest care won't keep this from happening. Random chance: a couple of months ago, a guy in our bike

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Wow. I almost never say anything out loud about wearing a helmet and I almost never post to a topic with more than 25 previous entries, but here I go with both some personal points of observation and perhaps some clarification of what we mean by accident. First, for disclosure. I almost (95%

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/24/2015 10:30 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: Can someone tell me how being killed by a motor vehicle on a bicycle is any different than being killed by a motor vehicle while walking? If it can save you in a bike/car collision, it can save you in a person/car

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Moderator! We need you! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Come to think of it, hasn't nearly every helmet thread similarly degenerated? On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 4:35:29 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote: > > Moderator! We need you! > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Not that cycling is that dangerous, but I'd like to see the data showing that "walking on the street" is more dangerous than riding a bike. On a personal level, I've lost several friends/acquaintances over the past year, killed by motor vehicles while riding their bikes. I can't think of a

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/24/2015 09:25 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Not that cycling is that dangerous, but I'd like to see the data showing that "walking on the street" is more dangerous than riding a bike. Or that walking on the street presents a danger that is specifically addressed by the wearing of a helmet.

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

which is why such discussions are called "helmet wars" On 11/24/2015 08:42 PM, dougP wrote: Come to think of it, hasn't nearly every helmet thread similarly degenerated? On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 4:35:29 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote: Moderator! We need you! -- You received

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Eric, The numbers are something like 600 deaths a year from cycling, 4000 a year from walking and 30,000 a year from motor vehicles. The numbers doing these activities vary wildly of course. If you know several people who were killed on bikes last year, you know several of the 600 or so who

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Please excuse all the typos and autocorrects! Some more Freudian than others. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Can someone tell me how being killed by a motor vehicle on a bicycle is any different than being killed by a motor vehicle while walking? If it can save you in a bike/car collision, it can save you in a person/car collision. Leaving aside any "data" that proves or disproves the safety value of

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Yes, the tendency toward dual thinking --must be either this or that--that pervades most of modern thought, is particularly on display in certain areas. In cycling, it generally involves chain lube and helmet wearing. I believe iBob no longer allows these types of discussions. The main problem

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

https://youtu.be/AV8nl8zzvQE?t=45s > ---woosh -- > "Steve" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/24/2015 04:13 PM, Kelly wrote: For those wondering why helmet laws were brought up. The below quote is in the article and why I brought it up. "As a result of their findings, Drs. Haider and Joseph said that the next step is to create injury prevention programs to increase helmet use

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Lets remember that we are all adults here. We all should be able to make our own choices and I would hope that we don't have to stoop to name calling. Wear what you wear. Please don't preach. Cheers, Scott On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Ron Mc wrote: > conspiracy

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

That's what I have been saying all along. I choose to wear a helmet. I encourage others to wear a helmet. But I don't support mandatory helmet laws and I don't insult or shame those who choose not to wear a helmet. That reduces ridership. Reduced ridership hurts everyone. Just Ride! -- You

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

conflict of interest - you believe these surgeons have helmets for sale. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Exactly follow the money . Every "study" has and angle to promote. On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 12:31:21 AM UTC-5, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote: > > > I will like to see if there are any sponsors to this analysis. The > sentence "next step is to create injury prevention programs to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

That's a very cynical view. On 11/24/2015 08:28 AM, Garth wrote: Exactly follow the money . Every "study" has and angle to promote. On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 12:31:21 AM UTC-5, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote: I will like to see if there are any sponsors to this analysis.

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Not helmets, but a myriad of "other benefits" of endless variety of which would astound . There is always a finacial angle for someone . On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 6:12:26 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote: > > conflict of interest - you believe these surgeons have helmets for sale. > --

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

the law argument is that most states don't require motorcycle helmets. I also don't know a surgeon who would ever own a motorcycle - they hate them because they have to stop and render aid at every one, but they all ride bikes. . It ends up being about common sense. I would vote in favor of a

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Tim, You wrote about car safety: "because cars have four wheels and are good at staying on them." I agree, but still 30,000 people die in car wrecks every year and 280,000 get head injuries from cars. Each year. Still, some things are safer than others. Biking in the Netherlands is safer

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

When did mandatory helmet laws enter this discussion? I didn't read the article all that closely, but the gist of it as I recall it is that the wearing of helmets was in fact effective in the cases cited. That itself has been called in question in the past, and it is worthwhile attempting to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

just the wrong impact at 12 mph is enough to kill you - helmet is a no-brainer > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

This is what was left of the helmet that saved my wife's life. Not my opinion... the direct observation of the trauma surgeon... We still had trouble, but... On Monday, November

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Well said, Steve. Nobody is suggesting mandatory helmets--on bikes, in the shower, or elsewhere. Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy > On Nov 23, 2015, at 5:10 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > When did mandatory helmet laws enter this

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

In that vein, here's a reply to the same post from a friend: "Nicely said Eric.I too wear a helmet every time I'm on my bike! I definitely advocate wearing helmets for any type of riding. I worked in transplantation for 10 years and I assure you we had several donors because of the choice not

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

This is just a question, not trying to stir up trouble. How many donors did you have from car occupants who also would have been saved by a helmet? On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 6:21:55 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote: > > In that vein, here's a reply to the same post from a friend: > > "Nicely

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

I disagree. I've had several crashes over the years, all due to road hazards: sand, eroded roots, potholes, cracks, black ice -- not one of which involved cars and none of which would have been mitigated in any way by having more cyclists on the road. And several people I know were involved

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Irrelevant question. We aren't discussing whether or not one should wear a helmet while driving in a car. On 11/23/2015 09:30 AM, Lynne Cooney wrote: This is just a question, not trying to stir up trouble. How many donors did you have from car occupants who also would have been saved by a

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

I do actually work in the healthcare industry (helping run clinical trials no less!). My impression of this short article and an even shorter abstract (lol) is that I cannot say the conclusion is supported one way or the other, because there simply isn't enough information and details to chew

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Whew, I was so afraid I would miss the annual helmet discussion... This year is no different and I am still at the same conclusion. I will continue to choose to wear my helmet (most of the time), and be grateful I have a choice to ride through town wearing only a baseball cap (and equally

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

next up, the usefulness of blinkies in giving drivers an extra 30 seconds alert to your presence on the road On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 9:51:55 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote: > > Whew, I was so afraid I would miss the annual helmet discussion... This > year is no different and I am

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

... Or while taking a shower. Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy > On Nov 23, 2015, at 6:39 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > Irrelevant question. We aren't discussing whether or not one should wear a > helmet while driving in a car. >

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Quoting from the article: "As a result of their findings, Drs. Haider and Joseph said that the next step is to create injury prevention programs to increase helmet use among bicyclists, to manufacture better helmets, and to develop and enforce stricter laws for helmet use." Doug On Monday,

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Fine. I did say I didn't read the article all that closely. Anyway, that's just their opinion. Their work doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion. What's more, none of us would object to efforts to get manufacturers to make better helmets, and few would object to efforts to increase

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On 11/23/2015 10:19 AM, Eric Norris wrote: Ok. I guess I mentally separated the results--a helmet protects your head when it hits the ground--from their suggestion that it would be a good idea to require the use of helmets. The former seems to be to be a fact-based conclusion, the latter an

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Ok. I guess I mentally separated the results--a helmet protects your head when it hits the ground--from their suggestion that it would be a good idea to require the use of helmets. The former seems to be to be a fact-based conclusion, the latter an opinion. Eric N www.CampyOnly.com

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

On Nov 23, 2015 6:16 AM, "Eric Norris" wrote: > > Well said, Steve. Nobody is suggesting mandatory helmets--on bikes, in the shower, or elsewhere. Yes they are--in the article you linked to, the paper authors are quoted "As a result of their findings, Drs. Haider and Joseph

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

why listen to published medical facts researched and peer reviewed by the American College of Surgeons when you can make pointless analogies (rhetorical question) I would say the fact that 75% of traumatic brain injuries occurred in riders not wear helmets is alone significant even without the

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Edwin -- I agree with your suggestions, but not with the "racer" qualification. Instead of "driving/riding like a racer", I'd say "driving/riding aggressively", or more specifically "driving/riding with a reasonable suspicion of landing on one's head". Racing driving, stunt driving, etc, are

RE: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Now, now, boys and girls…. From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Norris Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:17 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries ... Or while

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

it's hard to do 12 mph in the shower, but falling off one's bike is frequent enough to be a likelihood. On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 8:16:27 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote: > > Well said, Steve. Nobody is suggesting mandatory helmets--on bikes, in the > shower, or elsewhere. > > Eric N >

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Been on my helmet 3 times. One flip at 18mph. All three times, my helmet protected my face and scalp from serious road rash. On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 8:37:54 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > I disagree. I've had several crashes over the years, all due to road > hazards: sand,

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

And, mea culpa, I just broke my own rule of reading the whole thread before commenting. I see others pointed this out already and didn't mean to pile on Eric. I appreciated the link. -joe in pdx Caveat lector. Sent from a phone. On Nov 23, 2015 9:00 AM, "Joe Broach" wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

Umm...Eric...read the article again. The authors of the study recommended mandatory helmet laws. On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 6:16:27 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote: > > Well said, Steve. Nobody is suggesting mandatory helmets--on bikes, in the > shower, or elsewhere. > > Eric N >

Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

There is risk in pretty much everything we do in life. As you point out, unless compelled to do otherwise by laws, we all assess and respond to those risks in different ways. I didn’t see the article as saying that bicycling is risky (a high rate of accidents), just that wearing a helmet can