Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

The mule aberration was considered a threat to humanity in that it could delay/extend the dark age/period after the collapse of the empire by tracking down and eliminating the influence of the second foundation, which was helping the first foundation from the shadows. The mule was therefore

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Oh, I know Asimov saw at least some of the flaws in the laws. I bringing them up so would could too. Grin. In a fallen world, the answers can’t come from within the fallen world. The robot’s discovered their limits and had humility (whether they found the correct answer is another discussion).

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Except when it failed. IIRC, an aberration known as "the mule" appeared along the way in the trilogy and they (the robot (R.Daneel Olivaw) working through the humans (2nd Foundation) had to find a work-around to keep the future from slipping into a dark age. On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Patrick, There was some of this exact thinking in some of Azimov's Foundation series. I don't recall if it was an Azimov book or another added to the series, though I suspect the later. On a galactic level, the robots were unable to determine what was best for humanity. So, they found a human

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Asimov’s laws are pretty, and a logical foundation from which to start, but are far from being the answer they appear. Take the first “law” of medicine, for example. Modern doctors deleted the notion of “first, do no harm” from the modern Hippocratic Oath (which isn’t required), and added some

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Good point Tim. If I knew an automated car was programmed to stop for a cyclist regardless of the overall traffic situation, it would be more tempting to seize the initiative to cross the intersection before it did. Not that I would, but anyway. On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Tim Butterfield

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

It was stated in the media that neither the car or the human nanny attempted to slow or stop the vehicle. Not sure who the source of that info. On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: > We don't know that the driving attendant or the computer failed. I have >

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

I expect that Arizona's and Tuscon's laws would only allow local police to cite the human operator with a traffic violation. If Uber has any liability in this instance, it must be established via a civil process. Police and prosecutors don't make that call. This is an area of law that will come

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: > There it is. https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/ > 976099801669521409?s=19 Hmmm. It may not be in this case, but I have a sad premonition that people playing with/around self-driving cars may become an extreme

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

There it is. https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/976099801669521409?s=19 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Curtis, There is also the Zeroth law, which takes precedence over the other three. 0. A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm. Of course, these are built into the positronic brain, which does not yet exist. Tim On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:05 AM, Curtis

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Basically, there is a whole lot we do not know, and we really would do better waiting for the results of the on-going crash investigation rather than speculating as we have done. On 03/20/2018 10:05 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: We don't know that the driving attendant or the computer failed. I

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

We don't know that the driving attendant or the computer failed. I have questions concerning how well the pedestrian stepping into the street outside a crosswalk late at night judged the distance of the oncoming vehicle. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Are autonomous cars built to obey Asimov's Three Laws?  I doubt it very much. On 03/20/2018 09:05 AM, Curtis McKenzie wrote: Hello Everyone, Just a quick note about the "self-driving" cars. Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics" 1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

The driving attendant had the accident. Violated the trust of oversight which was the promise predicating this experiment's permission to use public roads as its laboratory. I'm (was) coming to grips with AI Ubers and have felt safer around them than transit busses whose operators continue to

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Hello Everyone, Just a quick note about the "self-driving" cars. Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics" 1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

I would trust Google with this technology more than Uber. Uber has shown quite frequently that they push the envelope on what is legal and what is moral. Google's stated philosophy is "first, do no harm". Pretty big difference there. I don't know if perception is reality, but it seems to me

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Uber has been picking people up at the Pittsburgh airport using autonomous vehicles for over a year. They've managed the sometimes bumper-to-bumper, sometimes 70mph Parkway West to the city with no incidents and have delivered folks to the city accident-free. Try driving in a city laid out

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Still basically a sandbox, not the real world at large.   Life is different out in the real world, where the maps are full of roads that exist only on paper, the white lines don't get maintained, and random chaos rules.  You can go 2 million miles around a closed track and still not have ten

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:58:21 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > Since computer driven cars are basically still in the laboratory > I'm not going to argue that autonomous cars are ready for prime time, but they're still in the lab only if you consider the streets of Mountain View, the

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Today I delivered a bike in a very tippy and strange U-Haul van after not sleeping well last night. I like cars and driving, but I'm quite sure a computer would have been a more competent operator of that contraption than I was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Good point Steve. >> "computer-driven cars are safer than people-driven" Not sure if this domain can be generalized like that. There are so many independent projects underway. The statement might be true for the leading one or two, but majority them are still buggy, not close to being

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

Well, they’re out in the world, so they’ve escaped the lab. Note that I referred to a *future* in which safer cars drive themselves. We may not be there yet. --Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram) > On Mar 19, 2018, at 3:58 PM, Steve Palincsar

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

On 03/19/2018 06:39 PM, Eric Norris wrote: By comparison, 5,376 pedestrians were killed by people-drive cars in 2015, which is one pedestrian killed every 1.6 hours. It’s not helpful to focus a single accident—this is a “man bites dog” story that triggers all sorts of worries about

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

By comparison, 5,376 pedestrians were killed by people-drive cars in 2015, which is one pedestrian killed every 1.6 hours. It’s not helpful to focus a single accident—this is a “man bites dog” story that triggers all sorts of worries about technology gone wrong. The facts, however, might

Re: [RBW] First pedestrian killed by autonomous car

This is not a solution, just a description of another day and another place; a galaxy long, long ago, and far, far away. Dave Moulton on cars, bikes, and everyday transportation in 1950s. Rationing in its entirety ended only in 1954.