Dahon versus Brompton ([RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam)

[Christopher Murray]

One last comment: having owned both a Dahon Hon Solo and Boardwalk, I do not 
think they are the same frame or fork. The HS seemed/ looked/ was much higher 
in quality. 

cm

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Dahon versus Brompton ([RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam)

[Christopher Murray]

I've ridden and owned both a Dahon Hon Solo and a Brompton. The wheels are 
larger on the HS and that gave it a bit of a smoother, more normal-feeling 
ride. That's not to say the Brompton doesn't ride as well just that it has its 
own feel and characteristics. I actually find the Brompton more fun to ride 
after getting used to it. It has a certain zippiness that is hard to explain. 
The Brompton also seems much higher quality than the HS. While some of the 
components and frame construction methods seem antiquated, they look/feel/ seem 
like they are done to a higher standard. The Brompton is also much beefier than 
the HS- the frame tubes are much, much thicker and the extended steering column 
has little to no flex. The HS frame feels solid but I always found a fair 
amount of flex in the steering column. And the Brompton folds much, much 
smaller. Overall, I liked the HS but ended up riding it very little, "borrowed" 
a few parts off it over the years, and eventually sold it to a list member ;)

Conclusion: I don't know if there is anything you can do on a Brompton that you 
can't do on the HS. And I'm not sure the quality difference is meaningful in 
any way (unless the flex bothers you) BUT the Brompton just has something 
semi-magical about it-- something intangible that makes me not just like it or 
tolerate it but LOVE it. I've owned quite a few small wheeled bikes and liked 
none of them as much as the Brompton. It is a silly, ridiculous looking 
contraption but one that I find hard not to love.

Apologies for any typos as I typed this quickly on my phone. 

Cheers!
Chris 

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[RBW] 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

[Jay Connolly]

I recently stumbled across a compilation of mfg rim-tire recommendations. Maybe 
it was here. Wish I'd saved it. Mavic basically says you can run anything up to 
a 2.5 on a 19mm internal width rim.

Jay

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Re: Dahon versus Brompton ([RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam)

[Joseph Bernard]

I've ridden a bunch of 20-inch-wheel Dahons and they ride fine, as does the
16-inch-wheel Dahon and two Bromptons I've owned. Your height/weight can
make a difference on these contraptions so I'm not going to keep arguing
this topic and boring the hell out of everybody. You should ride a Brompton
and see what you think.

On Sep 2, 2017 8:30 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:

> The opinions are consistent. I've not ridden a Brompton; have you ridden a
> Hon Solo?
>
> I was pleasantly surprised when I first rode the Hon Solo: after reading
> about folders, I feared twitchiness. But the HS rode very much like a road
> bike; not like a Rivendell, but certainly not twitchey.
>
> I repeat: I've read a dozen and half reviews, and the consensus is that
> Bromptons and fold small but ride worse than others that don't fold as
> small ride better.
>
> From Google's first few results:
>
> https://www.bikefolded.com/dahon-vs-brompton-best-
> folding-bike-manufacturer/
>
> https://www.bikefolded.com/brompton-vs-dahon-folding-bike-new-comparison/
>
> http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/778947-
> perennial-question-brompton-vs-dahon-tern.html
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Joseph Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>> I'll let others chime in (although they may consider this thread hijacked
>> enough already), but as far as I'm concerned those reviews are bollocks.
>> All small-wheelers handle quick, but that can be mitigated on a Brompton
>> with a couple pounds over the front wheel. Yesterday I rode my Clem L,
>> today I rode the Brompton; they both go straight and turn like bicycles,
>> with one being more stable and one feeling like a sports car. I like both.
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2017 8:01 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:
>>
>>> Question: I've read many comparative reviews of folders, and in many of
>>> them I've read that 20" Dahons ride more like "real bikes" than 16" wheel
>>> Bromptons; that Bromptons are the #1 choice if you want quick and easy
>>> folding, but if you want a ride that is closer to that of a full sized
>>> bike, choose something else/
>>>
>>> This is repeated again and again. Bromptons fold very nicely, but that
>>> is their sole competitive advantage. Other folders ride better. Generally,
>>> the reviews say that the easier and smaller the folding, the less the ride
>>> quality, and e converso.
>>>
>>> Also, straight bars are an immediate disbarment.
>>>
>>> Me, I want a bike that folds enough to fit into a grocery trolley, but
>>> that, otherwise, rides like a full sized bike.
>>>
>>> Will others chime in?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:36 PM, Joseph Bernard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I see your point about the bars, but I've ridden a lot of Dahons and
 the Brommie rides at least as well as they do. I just finished a 10 mile
 ride on mine and would easily triple it without a thought. They make a
 singlespeed that could be converted to fixie.

 On Sep 2, 2017 7:31 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:

> Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
> almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
> original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think 
> of
> buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
> while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.
>
> The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I
> want a folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
>> renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
>> truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
>> the bike.
>>
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Dahon versus Brompton ([RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam)

[Patrick Moore]

The opinions are consistent. I've not ridden a Brompton; have you ridden a
Hon Solo?

I was pleasantly surprised when I first rode the Hon Solo: after reading
about folders, I feared twitchiness. But the HS rode very much like a road
bike; not like a Rivendell, but certainly not twitchey.

I repeat: I've read a dozen and half reviews, and the consensus is that
Bromptons and fold small but ride worse than others that don't fold as
small ride better.

>From Google's first few results:

https://www.bikefolded.com/dahon-vs-brompton-best-folding-bike-manufacturer/

https://www.bikefolded.com/brompton-vs-dahon-folding-bike-new-comparison/

http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/778947-perennial-question-brompton-vs-dahon-tern.html



On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Joseph Bernard  wrote:

> I'll let others chime in (although they may consider this thread hijacked
> enough already), but as far as I'm concerned those reviews are bollocks.
> All small-wheelers handle quick, but that can be mitigated on a Brompton
> with a couple pounds over the front wheel. Yesterday I rode my Clem L,
> today I rode the Brompton; they both go straight and turn like bicycles,
> with one being more stable and one feeling like a sports car. I like both.
>
> On Sep 2, 2017 8:01 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:
>
>> Question: I've read many comparative reviews of folders, and in many of
>> them I've read that 20" Dahons ride more like "real bikes" than 16" wheel
>> Bromptons; that Bromptons are the #1 choice if you want quick and easy
>> folding, but if you want a ride that is closer to that of a full sized
>> bike, choose something else/
>>
>> This is repeated again and again. Bromptons fold very nicely, but that is
>> their sole competitive advantage. Other folders ride better. Generally, the
>> reviews say that the easier and smaller the folding, the less the ride
>> quality, and e converso.
>>
>> Also, straight bars are an immediate disbarment.
>>
>> Me, I want a bike that folds enough to fit into a grocery trolley, but
>> that, otherwise, rides like a full sized bike.
>>
>> Will others chime in?
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:36 PM, Joseph Bernard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I see your point about the bars, but I've ridden a lot of Dahons and the
>>> Brommie rides at least as well as they do. I just finished a 10 mile ride
>>> on mine and would easily triple it without a thought. They make a
>>> singlespeed that could be converted to fixie.
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2017 7:31 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
 almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
 original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think of
 buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
 while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.

 The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I want
 a folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.

 On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard 
 wrote:

>
> Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
> renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
> truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
> the bike.
>
> --
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>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
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>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> 
>> 
>> *Auditis an me 

Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Deacon Patrick]

I know you've made your bike the grocery trolley. Is there a reason that 
doesn't work? Would doing so tick all the boxes?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 9:01:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>
> Me, I want a bike that folds enough to fit into a grocery trolley, but 
> that, otherwise, rides like a full sized bike. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Joseph Bernard]

I'll let others chime in (although they may consider this thread hijacked
enough already), but as far as I'm concerned those reviews are bollocks.
All small-wheelers handle quick, but that can be mitigated on a Brompton
with a couple pounds over the front wheel. Yesterday I rode my Clem L,
today I rode the Brompton; they both go straight and turn like bicycles,
with one being more stable and one feeling like a sports car. I like both.

On Sep 2, 2017 8:01 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:

> Question: I've read many comparative reviews of folders, and in many of
> them I've read that 20" Dahons ride more like "real bikes" than 16" wheel
> Bromptons; that Bromptons are the #1 choice if you want quick and easy
> folding, but if you want a ride that is closer to that of a full sized
> bike, choose something else/
>
> This is repeated again and again. Bromptons fold very nicely, but that is
> their sole competitive advantage. Other folders ride better. Generally, the
> reviews say that the easier and smaller the folding, the less the ride
> quality, and e converso.
>
> Also, straight bars are an immediate disbarment.
>
> Me, I want a bike that folds enough to fit into a grocery trolley, but
> that, otherwise, rides like a full sized bike.
>
> Will others chime in?
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:36 PM, Joseph Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>> I see your point about the bars, but I've ridden a lot of Dahons and the
>> Brommie rides at least as well as they do. I just finished a 10 mile ride
>> on mine and would easily triple it without a thought. They make a
>> singlespeed that could be converted to fixie.
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2017 7:31 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
>>> almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
>>> original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think of
>>> buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
>>> while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.
>>>
>>> The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I want
>>> a folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>

 Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
 renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
 truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
 the bike.

 --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Patrick Moore]

Question: I've read many comparative reviews of folders, and in many of
them I've read that 20" Dahons ride more like "real bikes" than 16" wheel
Bromptons; that Bromptons are the #1 choice if you want quick and easy
folding, but if you want a ride that is closer to that of a full sized
bike, choose something else/

This is repeated again and again. Bromptons fold very nicely, but that is
their sole competitive advantage. Other folders ride better. Generally, the
reviews say that the easier and smaller the folding, the less the ride
quality, and e converso.

Also, straight bars are an immediate disbarment.

Me, I want a bike that folds enough to fit into a grocery trolley, but
that, otherwise, rides like a full sized bike.

Will others chime in?

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:36 PM, Joseph Bernard  wrote:

> I see your point about the bars, but I've ridden a lot of Dahons and the
> Brommie rides at least as well as they do. I just finished a 10 mile ride
> on mine and would easily triple it without a thought. They make a
> singlespeed that could be converted to fixie.
>
> On Sep 2, 2017 7:31 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
>> almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
>> original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think of
>> buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
>> while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.
>>
>> The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I want a
>> folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
>>> renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
>>> truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
>>> the bike.
>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> pic/rbw-owners-bunch/lzqXLQ2BG98/unsubscribe.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
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>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
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>>
> --
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**
**
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Joseph Bernard]

I see your point about the bars, but I've ridden a lot of Dahons and the
Brommie rides at least as well as they do. I just finished a 10 mile ride
on mine and would easily triple it without a thought. They make a
singlespeed that could be converted to fixie.

On Sep 2, 2017 7:31 PM, "Patrick Moore"  wrote:

> Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
> almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
> original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think of
> buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
> while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.
>
> The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I want a
> folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
>> renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
>> truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
>> the bike.
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Oh well; if I could find a Brompton that could give me an
almost-road-bike riding position (as the HS does with 2" bar extender and
original Moustache bar), and let me set it up as a fixed gear, I'd think of
buying one. I don't want a bike whose principal benefit is folding small,
while its riding qualities are distant from those of full sized bikes.

The HS is not bad at all; "boat to truck" doesn't do it justice. I want a
folder that I can ride 20 miles in a normal position without pain.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

>
> Yep. To do Brompton stuff you kinda need a Brompton. Your bike is a
> renamed Boardwalk, which is really more of a 'ride from the boat to the
> truck' design. Here's another shot that shows better how the bag fits on
> the bike.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: UnRacer community in SLC?

[Philip Williamson]

My friend lives near Saturday Cycles, and we visited when I was in SLC. The 
shop was building my friend a three speed, and they had Rivs in the rafters. 
Easy to talk our kinds of bikes with the staff and customers. Cool place.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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[RBW] 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

[Kai Vierstra]

No problem with the fit, but if you ride them around anything pointy you'll 
wish they were tubeless. I liked everything except for the flats with them on 
Mavic 719s, since I mounted them on cliffhangers minus tubes, no flatting.
-Kai 
BK NY 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Now that would do the trick! But I guess that it works only with a
proprietary Brompton mounting system?



On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Patrick, here's my new Brompton (I sold the electric one) with a Brompton
> C Bag. It's huge, and they make huger ones.
>
> Hey Ash, it's a circus bike at Tilden Park!
>
> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 5:53:32 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
> > John: You breathe new, and doubtless still forlorn hope in my despairing
> quest to make my Dahon Hon Solo a load carrier.
> >
> >
> > Would you mind posting a photo of your Bompton with touring bags? I'd
> like to see what sort of system you use.
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Patrick Moore, who has 2 other load carrying bikes, in ABQ, NM
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Surlyprof  wrote:
> >
> >
> > [Snippo ...]
> > John
> > Whose Brompton with touring bag has made commuting on public transport
> and grocery shopping so much nicer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> > Other professional writing services.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> >
> > Patrick Moore
> > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> >
> > 
> 
> >
> > Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Patrick Moore]

John: You breathe new, and doubtless still forlorn hope in my despairing
quest to make my Dahon Hon Solo a load carrier.

Would you mind posting a photo of your Bompton with touring bags? I'd like
to see what sort of system you use.

Thanks.

Patrick Moore, who has 2 other load carrying bikes, in ABQ, NM

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Surlyprof  wrote:

> [Snippo ...]
> John
> Whose Brompton with touring bag has made commuting on public transport and
> grocery shopping so much nicer.
>


Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Patrick Moore]

Oooo! Oneisoneisoneisoneisoneisoneisoneisoneistoomany.

Patrick Moore, getting dizzy when he should be writing a resume, in ABQ, NM

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Garth  wrote:

> ...One is One is One ...
>
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Re: [RBW] 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

[Patrick Moore]

You can do it without worrying. 25 years ago everyone rode 2" tires on
18-24 mm rims. I used 2.35s on 24 mm rims. "Optimal" means that you can
play with low pressures; if you don't use pressures so low that the
sidewall flops in turns, or pressures so high that the added angular
leverage endangers the rim wall (you have a lot of margin; you're not going
to put 100 psi in 60 mm tires), you're fine.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:16 PM, John G.  wrote:

> I've inherited a pair of lightly used 2.35 inch Schwalbe G-One tires, and
> I'm thinking about trying them out on my Atlantis. Are my Atlas rims too
> small? According to Velocity's site, max optimal width for Atlas is 45mm.
> Anyone have firsthand experience?
>
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[RBW] Re: 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've put 2.35 Big Apples on Dyads, which I believe is a slightly narrower 
rim than the Atlas.  It wasn't optimal in that I had to run a higher 
pressure than I would have liked to keep them from squirming in corners, 
but it worked.  
 


On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 7:16:29 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>
> I've inherited a pair of lightly used 2.35 inch Schwalbe G-One tires, and 
> I'm thinking about trying them out on my Atlantis. Are my Atlas rims too 
> small? According to Velocity's site, max optimal width for Atlas is 45mm. 
> Anyone have firsthand experience?

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[RBW] 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm running those tires sucessfully on Velocity Synergy rims... 23mm rim width, 
I think the Atlas are wider.  Should work fine.

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[RBW] 2.35 inch tires on Atlas rims

[John G.]

I've inherited a pair of lightly used 2.35 inch Schwalbe G-One tires, and I'm 
thinking about trying them out on my Atlantis. Are my Atlas rims too small? 
According to Velocity's site, max optimal width for Atlas is 45mm. Anyone have 
firsthand experience?

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[RBW] Makeshifter Outback Saddlebag

[Broccoli Cog]

Hello All, I have an almost new Makeshifter Outback Saddlebag up for grabs. 
I purchased this new back in June and used it only a handful of times. It 
is in excellent condition. The workmanship on this bag is impeccable and it 
looks amazing. I just was looking for something with a little more capacity 
and this one didn't suit my needs. I am asking $175 shipped which is $90 of 
the retail price. I'd ask that the $175 be net to me via PayPal using F 
or pay a little extra to cover the PP fees. A link to more info can be 
found here: 

Makeshifter 


Link to actual photos of the bag can be found here: 

My photos 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/02/2017 05:52 PM, Garth wrote:
   Ha Ha !   No matter how the most or the least, the first or the 
last, no matter how it is seen , one gear alone is ridden in any given 
moment.   Separation of One is impossible. One is One is One, no 
matter how many ways One is experienced there is still only One One.  
One is inseparable. One is "One's own Existence".  Hence, One to bind 
back One isn't at all since it could never be separated from itself.


Spoken like a man who's never broken a chain...

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[RBW] Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[RonaTD]

The Quickbeam, having been developed on the roads and trails around Mt. Diablo, 
is ideally suited to that kind of ride. I took mine with me once to SoCal and 
did some road/gravel/single track in the hills and it was heavenly. Very 
confidence-inspiring handling rolling down a sketchy hillside trail. If I had 
road/trail combo options like that around here, I probably wouldn't have sold 
mine. 

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[RBW] Re: Even a riv (design) can wobble

[RonaTD]

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 2:56:19 PM UTC-5, Antone Könst wrote: 
>  My new (to me) Cheviot is very hard to control with no hands on a flat road 
> with no load.  ….   

And I replied:
> Mine, too. My explanation is that the very high wheel flop requires a large 
> amount of correction, and it's hard to apply that much correction and not 
> over-correct. 

Update: I pulled the fork off my Cheviot and found it was not straight. I 
adjusted the rake on one side and centered the wheel and, voila, far more 
stable handling. I suspected that might be the problem and should have 
mentioned it earlier. The first test when no-hands handling is a problem should 
always be fork and wheel alignment. In the case of the Cheviot, I also find 
that it likes a very upright riding position. I have not yet tried it with a 
front load with the aligned fork, but I expect it to prefer rear loading.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/02/2017 03:23 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Quoth Garth:
/
 I get the idea of the minimizing to save this and that, but if I 
think I am "saving" anything at all by effort to avoid something  , 
life has it's own way of showing me the utter futility of the idea. 
Like , "oh I know, I'll just ride ONE gear because that'll be so much 
more simple than all that shifting stuff !" . but "stuff" still 
happens even with that "simple ride and bike" that no one could have 
ever anticipated !  It's like a cosmic sitcom of laughter ! /


Oh, but life is so much freer and exhilarating when you have only 1 
ring and 1 cog. One ring to rule them all, one cog to find them, one 
gear to bring them all and in the mountains bind them. When you have 
only 1 gear, you are /always/ in the right gear -- make no mistake 
about it.


Some might say when you only have one gear you are almost never in the 
right gear.  But at least you get to coast when you don't have a high 
enough gear... or do you?


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[RBW] 2017 Civil War Century

[JohnS]

Hello All,

Any one planning to ride the Civil War Century on the 9th? Four of my 
cycling friends and I we be riding the 75 mile loop. We're planning on 
arriving at 7:00 and starting the ride by 7:30. I'll be riding my Riv 
inspired 2012 Salsa Casseroll (Brooks saddle, mustache bars, Compass Barlow 
Pass tires, Thin Gripster pedals). Should be challenging with 5646 feet of 
climbing. The good thing about the 75 mile loop is that after the second 
long drawn out climb it's almost all down hill to the finish. Also I find 
100 mile rides make for a long day in the saddle, but who knows, maybe next 
year I'll give it a try. Unfortunately this year's registration is already 
closed. 

Regards,
John.S

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[RBW] FS: Nitto Choco Norm, Nitto F25 Rack, Crust Bikes Rack, Many Stems, Other Misc Items

[adam leibow]

Hello RBW group, 

Trying to purge some nice things here. Links to pictures or product sites 
are included for reference/clarity of what's being sold, but are not 
pictures of the exact item in my possession. See below for more info. 

1. Nitto F25 rack, some use (steel fillet brazed front rack, google it - 
it's rare, only place you can find it for sale is bikemania.biz). Rack has 
been drilled to run a fatter tire - fits on my Cheviot with 700C x 50mm 
sans fenders -  $150 LINK 


2. Crust Bikes Rack (brand new, out of box but never used or mounted). $150 
LINK 

3. Rivendell Silver Hupe rear saddle bag support. (fits taller frames, do 
some research before committing or know you're taking a risk). for 
reference this works with my 60cm Cheviot, but not my 54cm Hunqapillar. 
$28. LINK 

 
4. Simworks Little Nick Bar in Silver (steel 25.4 clamp MTB / flat bar made 
by Nitto). Some scuffs from multiple installations -  $33 LINK 


5. 650Bx2.1" WTB Nano Set of (2) tires, <30 miles barely used, wire bead. 
$33 for the set. 

6. Thomson X2 stem, (120mm black 10degree) good condition - $58

7. Rivendell Nitto HiRiser stem, threadless, installed once or twice but 
never ridden. $58 LINK 


8. Velo Orange 110 threadless polished silver aluminum stem, 17degree rise, 
26.0 bar clamp, for 1-1/8" steerers - $28 LINK 


9. Syntace 110 threadless aluminum stem, black, 10degree rise, 25.4 bar 
clamp, for 1-1/8" steerers - $28 LINK 


10. Roadrunner Bags Burrito Handlebar Bag - Highlighter yellow cordura, 
kinda dirty/could use a wash. - $18 LINK 


11. Nitto Choco Norm Handlebars Heat treated aluminum, 54cm wide. Installed 
and ridden around the block a few times. otherwise new. $67

12. Salsa Quill Stem - cool lookin vintage mtb style. 130mm LONG - $40 LINK 


Prices do NOT include PayPal fees. So it's your choice whether you want to 
do F or pay a few extra bucks. I promise that you will receive your item 
as described if you do F I am an experienced seller of bike parts and 
accessories and I know several people on this group personally who can 
vouch for me. 

Prices include shipping west of the Mississippi. Add $7 for larger items 
(like racks and handlebars) for EAST of the Mississippi. 

I'll take $5-15 off the price (depending on size of item) for local pickup 
in SF, CA. 

Please text me @ 310 963 6959 for pics if you are interested in a 
particular item. I would take pics of all items except it's 90~ish degrees 
here which is at least 30degrees too hot for me, and the last thing I want 
to do is move my body. 

thanks for looking!

Adam 




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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Pro 5 Vis ring very out of true or out of round

[Patrick Moore]

Good point; definitely a question of tolerances; up for debate whether a
matter of QA.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Peter White  wrote:

> I'd say it's a judgement call whether or not it is a quality control
> issue. In manufacturing, you always set a standard for precision. Take
> chains. Modern bicycle chains are ½ inch pin to pin. Are they exactly ½
> inch? How do you define "exactly?" To what tolerance? If you set the
> tolerance to within a certain number of atoms, say three atoms, and if you
> could actually produce them to that degree of precision, you would get
> really precise chains. But does a bicycle chain have to be produced to that
> degree of precision? We all know the answer.
>
> With a rear derailleur, the chainring can work perfectly well with more
> runout than would be acceptable on a track bike. And the runout that's
> acceptable on a track bike used for a local club race would probably not be
> acceptable to a top professional competing at the world championships.
>
> PJW
> Peter White Cycles
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all. I'm going to replace this 48 with another that I have, and
>> hope that the other one is more "true."
>>
>> And: if anyone has 3/32 * 48 t 50.4 bcd rings to sell or trade -- *in
>> very good condition, please!* --please lmk.
>>
>> * I use 9 speed chains 'cuz I use Dingle cogs.
>>
>> Peter: Then the upshot is that these old rings are just often out of
>> round -- poor quality control? I've noticed some runout on the many other
>> Pro 5 Vis rings (all older ones) that I've used for fixed gear drivetrains,
>> but never to the extent of this one.
>>
>> Makes me wish I still had my 20 lb box of Stronglight 49 cranks and rings
>> ... I've notice slight runout with Stronglights and other cranks and rings,
>> but not as with TA and certainly not as with this particular ring. And,
>> it's the ring; the 46 t ring, also older Pro 5 Vis, that this 48 replaced,
>> didn't have nearly the this degree of runout.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:30 AM, Peter White 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rotating the ring will make no useful difference, though it will tell
>>> you how much of the runout is in the ring and how much is in the crank.
>>>
>>> While the Pro 5 Vis crank can be used as a single speed, it was never
>>> intended for use without a chain tensioner, which rear derailleurs include
>>> by default. So TA doesn't need to be very precise in centering the ring or
>>> the crank itself.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Justin: I don't get it: it's not bent, it circumferentially eccentric --
>> as many of the others I've used are, too; just a lot more so.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Justin Hughes  w
>> rote:
>> Right. That's one reason why SS intended rings are thicker and stiffer,
>> right?
>>
>>
>> Brian: it's rather new, in fact; age and wear is not the problem.
>>
>>  On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Brian Campbell 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Simply time for a new chainring. Things do eventually wear out and have
>>> to be replaced or discarded. I consider it a positive outcome when if comes
>>> to bikes.
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
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>
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**
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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Patrick Moore]

Quoth Garth:

* I get the idea of the minimizing to save this and that, but if I think I
am "saving" anything at all by effort to avoid something  , life has it's
own way of showing me the utter futility of the idea. Like , "oh I know,
I'll just ride ONE gear because that'll be so much more simple than all
that shifting stuff !" . but "stuff" still happens even with that
"simple ride and bike" that no one could have ever anticipated !  It's like
a cosmic sitcom of laughter !  *

Oh, but life is so much freer and exhilarating when you have only 1 ring
and 1 cog. One ring to rule them all, one cog to find them, one gear to
bring them all and in the mountains bind them. When you have only 1 gear,
you are *always* in the right gear -- make no mistake about it.

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 12:03:58 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> Less shifting if I can do 99% of riding on the big ring, bashguard looks
so nice on those arms, less gears, i like simplifying. So I want to try the
setup. Maybe reduce a little weight if I switch to double/shortcage
derailers.
>
> With my triple I am constantly switching between 2nd and 3rd rings. If I
can juat stay on one ring that might be better.

I found that I had to do this too much with my X2D triple, 46/36/24 X 7 in
back, when transitioning between pavement (mostly on the 46) and dirt (much
more need for the low/intermediate gears on the 36), so I turned the same
crank into one of those Rivendell doubles with guard, 38 and 24 rings, and
9 nicely chosen cogs -- same range, same gaps, and much more terrain and
surface capacity on the 38.

Steve suggested that the right rings and cogs on a triple can alleviate the
problem, but sometimes you want your cogs to be such and such, and your
rings such and such, all to get this or that range with so and so steps;
and this left me with the problem described. But 9 in back with 2 in front
gave me much the same range and gaps, and made the pavement-to-dirt
transitions much easier to shift.


On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Garth  wrote:

> Okay, just different perspectives on the same thing. Yes, I shift all
> the time between my 36 and 48 rings and I rather like it and in combo with
> cog shifts I can always find a gear I like. With a 7 sp. 13-32 and 24/36/48
> I have so much choice between the 36 and 48 that often it's an either/or
> ring depending on the cog I chose.  Left to right shifting of cogs to me is
> very intuitive.
>
>  I get the idea of the minimizing to save this and that, but if I think I
> am "saving" anything at all by effort to avoid something  , life has it's
> own way of showing me the utter futility of the idea. Like , "oh I know,
> I'll just ride ONE gear because that'll be so much more simple than all
> that shifting stuff !" . but "stuff" still happens even with that
> "simple ride and bike" that no one could have ever anticipated !  It's like
> a cosmic sitcom of laughter !
>
>  "They say" there is no "free" lunch .  Well, maybe that is because "they"
> have denied the free lunch in thinking they can buy a better one by
> avoiding the free one, for a price that is, the price of their own freedom.
> Well gee, the "free lunch" is one's own inherent freedom, and can that be
> bettered for any price  ?  Freedom is Priceless  !
>
>  This is not to indict anyone or anything of or for anything, rather to
> live and let live . Be and let be.
>
>   So once again, just ride, and whatever you ride and in-joy be the ride .
>
>
> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 12:03:58 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> Less shifting if I can do 99% of riding on the big ring, bashguard looks
>> so nice on those arms, less gears, i like simplifying. So I want to try the
>> setup. Maybe reduce a little weight if I switch to double/shortcage
>> derailers.
>>
>> With my triple I am constantly switching between 2nd and 3rd rings. If I
>> can juat stay on one ring that might be better.
>>
>
> --
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Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Pro 5 Vis ring very out of true or out of round

[Peter White]

I'd say it's a judgement call whether or not it is a quality control issue.
In manufacturing, you always set a standard for precision. Take chains.
Modern bicycle chains are ½ inch pin to pin. Are they exactly ½ inch? How
do you define "exactly?" To what tolerance? If you set the tolerance to
within a certain number of atoms, say three atoms, and if you could
actually produce them to that degree of precision, you would get really
precise chains. But does a bicycle chain have to be produced to that degree
of precision? We all know the answer.

With a rear derailleur, the chainring can work perfectly well with more
runout than would be acceptable on a track bike. And the runout that's
acceptable on a track bike used for a local club race would probably not be
acceptable to a top professional competing at the world championships.

PJW
Peter White Cycles

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, all. I'm going to replace this 48 with another that I have, and
> hope that the other one is more "true."
>
> And: if anyone has 3/32 * 48 t 50.4 bcd rings to sell or trade -- *in
> very good condition, please!* --please lmk.
>
> * I use 9 speed chains 'cuz I use Dingle cogs.
>
> Peter: Then the upshot is that these old rings are just often out of round
> -- poor quality control? I've noticed some runout on the many other Pro 5
> Vis rings (all older ones) that I've used for fixed gear drivetrains, but
> never to the extent of this one.
>
> Makes me wish I still had my 20 lb box of Stronglight 49 cranks and rings
> ... I've notice slight runout with Stronglights and other cranks and rings,
> but not as with TA and certainly not as with this particular ring. And,
> it's the ring; the 46 t ring, also older Pro 5 Vis, that this 48 replaced,
> didn't have nearly the this degree of runout.
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:30 AM, Peter White  wrote:
>
>> Rotating the ring will make no useful difference, though it will tell you
>> how much of the runout is in the ring and how much is in the crank.
>>
>> While the Pro 5 Vis crank can be used as a single speed, it was never
>> intended for use without a chain tensioner, which rear derailleurs include
>> by default. So TA doesn't need to be very precise in centering the ring or
>> the crank itself.
>>
>
>
> Justin: I don't get it: it's not bent, it circumferentially eccentric --
> as many of the others I've used are, too; just a lot more so.
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Justin Hughes  wrote:
> Right. That's one reason why SS intended rings are thicker and stiffer,
> right?
>
>
> Brian: it's rather new, in fact; age and wear is not the problem.
>
>  On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Brian Campbell 
>  wrote:
>
>> Simply time for a new chainring. Things do eventually wear out and have
>> to be replaced or discarded. I consider it a positive outcome when if comes
>> to bikes.
>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Cheviotlantis

[adam leibow]

I have a 60cm chev and can't say enough good things about it, except for 
the weird stuff I had to do to get the rear Paul Racer centerpull to work. 
This color combo is definitely appealing. 

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 1:31:16 PM UTC-7, MartyG wrote:
>
> One of the nicest Cheviot's I've seen. It's on the 'Bay now. 
>
>
> 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Pro 5 Vis ring very out of true or out of round

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. I'm going to replace this 48 with another that I have, and
hope that the other one is more "true."

And: if anyone has 3/32 * 48 t 50.4 bcd rings to sell or trade -- *in very
good condition, please!* --please lmk.

* I use 9 speed chains 'cuz I use Dingle cogs.

Peter: Then the upshot is that these old rings are just often out of round
-- poor quality control? I've noticed some runout on the many other Pro 5
Vis rings (all older ones) that I've used for fixed gear drivetrains, but
never to the extent of this one.

Makes me wish I still had my 20 lb box of Stronglight 49 cranks and rings
... I've notice slight runout with Stronglights and other cranks and rings,
but not as with TA and certainly not as with this particular ring. And,
it's the ring; the 46 t ring, also older Pro 5 Vis, that this 48 replaced,
didn't have nearly the this degree of runout.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:30 AM, Peter White  wrote:

> Rotating the ring will make no useful difference, though it will tell you
> how much of the runout is in the ring and how much is in the crank.
>
> While the Pro 5 Vis crank can be used as a single speed, it was never
> intended for use without a chain tensioner, which rear derailleurs include
> by default. So TA doesn't need to be very precise in centering the ring or
> the crank itself.
>


Justin: I don't get it: it's not bent, it circumferentially eccentric -- as
many of the others I've used are, too; just a lot more so.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Justin Hughes  wrote:
Right. That's one reason why SS intended rings are thicker and stiffer,
right?


Brian: it's rather new, in fact; age and wear is not the problem.

 On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Brian Campbell 
 wrote:

> Simply time for a new chainring. Things do eventually wear out and have to
> be replaced or discarded. I consider it a positive outcome when if comes to
> bikes.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/02/2017 12:03 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

With my triple I am constantly switching between 2nd and 3rd rings. If I can 
juat stay on one ring that might be better.



To me this indicates your choice of chain rings and sprockets is not 
optimal for you.   Quoting Jan Heine from 3 Nov 2012 
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/how-to-choose-your-chainrings/


   When I select my gearing, I think of three gears:

 * *Base gear: *This is the gear I mostly use on flat roads when
   spinning along.
 * *High gear: *This is the largest gear that I use when I am
   sprinting for a city limit sign with friends, or riding with a
   powerful tailwind.
 * *Low gear: *This is the smallest gear I need on the roads I
   usually ride.

   In addition to covering the range from low to high gear, a good gear
   selection will do the following:

 * Put the base gear in the middle of the rear freewheel/cassette,
   so that I can adjust to changes in speed and terrain with a
   simple shift or two in the rear.
 * Provide small enough steps between gears, so that I can continue
   pedaling seamlessly.

It's one reason why the oh-so-common 34/50 just doesn't work for me at 
all.  The 50 puts my base gear almost at the shift point when I have to 
cross over for even the slightest increase in incline, and that's just 
maddening.  My 24/36/46 puts my base gear on the 46 right in the middle 
of the cassette, and I can stay on the big ring for over 90% of my riding.



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[RBW] Re: UnRacer community in SLC?

[Kai Vierstra]

Yes, the bicycle collective rules!
And bicycling in SLC is great for everybody, unracers and racers alike. 
Saturday Cycles is a great shop for matte riding gear.
-Kai
BK NY (part time SLC resident)

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[RBW] Re: Pro 5 Vis ring very out of true or out of round

[Brian Campbell]

Simply time for a new chainring. Things do eventually wear out and have to 
be replaced or discarded. I consider it a positive outcome when if comes to 
bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: UnRacer community in SLC?

[ascpgh]

Bicycle Collective. https://www.bicyclecollective.org

A couple we know are in SLC and the husband got involved and became a 
dedicated, practical cyclist as a result. They have a car for out of town 
stuff and her off hours pager calls from the hospital, but leave it parked 
most often.

A cycling advocacy group catalyzes the community. Our friends attended 
their bike prom this spring and said there were a lot of folks in 
attendance.

Bicycle Collective sounds like a threshold organization that is an entry 
into the retail LBS of the non-lycra centric kind you'r looking for.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-4, Keenan Cummings wrote:
>
> It's kinda easy to draw a map of Riv-style riders just based on where the 
> bike shops are that build these kinds of bikes. We have plenty here in the 
> bay, and I've found a good handful on Instagram across the states. 
>
> As far as I can tell, the bike shops in SLC are your standard fare, which 
> often means the riding community is donning spandex and clocking metrics. 
> Curious if anyone knows what bike life is like in Salt Lake City and Utah 
> in general for the UnRacer.
>

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[RBW] Sunrace make good cassettes?

[lum gim fong]

Less shifting if I can do 99% of riding on the big ring, bashguard looks so 
nice on those arms, less gears, i like simplifying. So I want to try the setup. 
Maybe reduce a little weight if I switch to double/shortcage derailers.

With my triple I am constantly switching between 2nd and 3rd rings. If I can 
juat stay on one ring that might be better.

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam over Mt Tam

[Surlyprof]

Not true, Joe.  My students were amazed when I showed up to class on my 
bright lime green Brompton (with unfortunately chosen lime green helmet). 
 Most had never seen one.  I told them that my wife bought it for me when I 
graduated from clown college.  They never know when I'm being sarcastic so 
I think there are now rumors going around campus that I spend my summers 
touring with the circus!

John 
Whose Brompton with touring bag has made commuting on public transport and 
grocery shopping so much nicer.

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:44:01 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I assure you, you are the first person to ever call a folder a circus bike 
> ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm running 43mm Rock and Roads on one Open Pro wheelset. The world keeps 
turning, nonetheless. I agree that it theoretically seems more "right" to have 
a wider rim with a wider tire, the fact is we were all running skinny rims on 
our mountain bikes in the 90's and we survived.  If I could snap my fingers and 
cause my Open Pros to be replaced by HED Belgium C2 plus rims, I would. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca. 

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Gossamer]

This bike is up for sale again. Nothing has changed. Would appreciate $2100 
but would be open to other offers. Thanks all.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:
>
> As close to new 58 Appaloosa in blue.
>
> Buil kit from Riv that included Nitto Choco Moose bars and added a read 
> Pletscher Rack with pannier rails, front Mark's rack and Sackville small 
> trunk (gray), kickstand. Currently has a Soma drop bar on it with Dura Ace 
> shifters. Already newbaumed chain stay, both sets of bars and put on a 
> great bell.
>
> Bike has fewer than 100 miles on it. It's closer to new than a demo could 
> be...it's sadly too big despite following the fit guide.
>
> I'd be happy to discuss further if someone would like. I'd like to get 
> $2100 for it since I have more than $2600 into it. It will be 
> professionally shipped and you'll get both bars and all mentioned above. 
> Only things I would keep are the saddle and the pedals.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Kyle Brooks]

Open Pro rims are quite strong for their weight -- really good rims, and 
they've been available for quite a few years now. But they are more of a 
racing type of rim - fairly narrow in width (I think they're around 19 mm). 
So the only drawback I can think of with them is that you probably 
shouldn't put really large-volume tires on them. I've got 28mm tires on 
mine with no problems. I've heard of people going as wide as 32, but I 
think that's kind of pushing it. For tires that large or larger, a wider 
rim would be better.

No reason not to use them with a dynamo however. 

Kyle Brooks
Akron, Ohio

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 7:33:00 AM UTC-4, Matt Beecher wrote:
>
> I've tried Velocity Dyads on my dynamo wheels and they are ok if running 
> 32-35mm tires, but I've always considered Mavic Open Pros and 28's to be my 
> favorite rim/tire choice.  That said, I don't think I have ever seen them 
> on dynamo wheels and I wonder why.  Is it just that dynamo users tend to 
> want wider tires, or are the Mavics just a bad choice for that type of 
> wheel?  Since I have not seen any such wheels listed for sale, and before I 
> buy the materials and build myself a wheel, I was hoping for 
> recommendations on whether or not to avoid it.  
>
> Thanks for any input,
> Matt B.
> Oswego, IL
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires/Wheels for new Sam Hillborne

[Surlyprof]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/24621117222/in/dateposted-public/

Found a photo.  Not sure if you can zoom in tight enough to see the modified 
mounting bracket.

John

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[RBW] Re: Tires/Wheels for new Sam Hillborne

[Surlyprof]

The sks fenders with the 40s were a little bit of a tough fit but I was able to 
get decent clearance.  As I mentioned, I had to elongate the mounting hole 
almost down to the fender.  I also had to bend it over like they showed on one 
of the Riv videos.  That was the only way I could slam them flush with the 
underside of the fork crown.  Worked great.  I'd try to get a picture but I'm 
not running fenders now and the Mondials aren't mounted.

John

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Re: [RBW] New Bike Day--R05C0 8U883 Medium Mountain Mixte

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks all. 

This bike features the new Silver tapered seat tube.  It flares to 31.8mm about 
halfway down. Those of you who are assembling a build kit for your LBS to build 
might get caught off guard by that detail.  The CX70 front derailleur Is a 
31.8mm clamp with optional spacers so I was covered.  

Over the years, whenever I look at a step through of this kind I imagine load 
wanting to fold the seat tube in half. This bike has an oversized lower seat 
tube and the liftatube anchoring the seat tube to the downtube.  It puts me 
more at ease. I think it will be plenty stout for anything I might use it for.  

My weekends are completely packed with activities so I won't be able to take it 
on the trails for a couple days

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help from coastal riders: how to deal with sand?

[Ron Mc]

Hi Steve, just got in from my neighborhood loop - 24 mi and 1200' climb.  

I work in a lab and have a big fancy ultrasonic.  My bath procedure is 
mineral spirits, a lab (zero residue) soap solution (Micro - like Alconox), 
water rinse and final denatured alcohol bath to dry the chain.  The soap 
and DA make sure there's no mineral spirits left to get in the wax bath.  

Big or small, all ultrasonic cleaners will get you the same result.  More 
money gets you capacity, long-life motor, whistles and bells (timers, etc). 
 

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 7:09:16 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> What ultrasonic cleaner do you use?   Any recommendations?  Or is this a 
> case of even the lowest performing ultrasonic cleaner is so much better 
> than none at all?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Bill Lindsay]

I've got two bikes with dynamo hubs and Open Pro rims. One with Schmidt and one 
Shutter Precision. It's totally appropriate to use a dynamo hub with a narrow 
rim if you need to run narrow rims. 

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[panog]

There is absolutely no reason why the Pro's could not be fitted on a dynamo 
hub. I have built a couple of sets using Archetypes (kinda similar type rim 
although much more consistent quality than today's Pros) and used for thousands 
of miles.

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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Matt Beecher]

Thanks guys.  I agree that the Open Pro rims are not as hardy as my Dyads, 
but I have never had any issue with them, which is why I was thinking of 
building with them.  I also like the fact that they seem a hair faster. 
 Additionally, I don't plan to use anything wider than 28mm on the bike. 
 For those who are interested, here is a photo of the modified Motobecane 
LeChampion that intend the wheels for.  



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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Brian Campbell]

I have been using a Schmidt, wide body Dyno hub with an Open Pro rim for 
the last 4 years. I have run 35mm & 38mm Compass tires as well as 35mm 
Vittorias and never had any issues.
Peter White built the wheel and had no problems with its intended use. I am 
6'1' and 185lbs. I have used the wheel on brevets, commuting to work and 
everything in between. Again, no problems of any kind. 

I chose the Open Pro for its lighter weight, 32 hole configuration and 
classic (sliver) good looks. Folks on this list seem to prefer wheels that 
are built more for touring and heavy off road use. I live in South Eastern 
Pa so most of my riding is on paved roads and gravel/light dirt.


On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 8:33:54 AM UTC-4, Dave Small wrote:
>
> I'm not a wheel or rim expert, but my impression of the Open Pro is that 
> it's more suitable for racier bikes, and is not the best choice for rando 
> or touring bikes because it's not as hardy as other choices.  The 
> randonneurs and tourists are the folks who tend to gravitate to dynamo 
> hubs, and they usually want something tougher than the Open Pro.  So I 
> don't see any problem with lacing a dynamo hub to an Open Pro rim, but I 
> don't think they suit the same objective.  
>
>

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[RBW] Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Garth]

Oh shoot, I see you're using 650b wheels, hence the 11t need. Is there a reason 
why you're not using triple rings on that bike, that'd be more versatile. Just 
one main large ring would be alright for modest terrain but for hills I know I 
would like it, that's just me . I truly am not fond of riding in tiny rings 
(24-26), only as a last resort. Having a 24/3x/4x is just so darn useful !  
Bigger rings just feel better to me and always have. 

As for riding long mountain rides in racing gears, sure, I used to do it long 
ago, with 42/52 and 12-25 7 sp.!  Heck a 39 ring and a 27t cog would have been 
a revelation back then. A compact double of 34 or 36-50 would have been 
"touring" gears !  

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[RBW] Re: Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm not a wheel or rim expert, but my impression of the Open Pro is that 
it's more suitable for racier bikes, and is not the best choice for rando 
or touring bikes because it's not as hardy as other choices.  The 
randonneurs and tourists are the folks who tend to gravitate to dynamo 
hubs, and they usually want something tougher than the Open Pro.  So I 
don't see any problem with lacing a dynamo hub to an Open Pro rim, but I 
don't think they suit the same objective.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help from coastal riders: how to deal with sand?

[Steve Palincsar]

What ultrasonic cleaner do you use?   Any recommendations?  Or is this a 
case of even the lowest performing ultrasonic cleaner is so much better 
than none at all?



On 09/02/2017 07:53 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
Steve, I'm talking about simplicity.  No, nothing is better than 
ultrasonic w/ mineral spirits for cleaning chains.

What I was talking about was living with salt, sand and grit.
But I've also done 1000 mi on a chain using Clean Ride and the hose, 
about every 100 mi, and it works.
It's not as clean in the long-run as the wax lube - it's light-years 
ahead of oil lube for clean - but a simple day-to-day way for her to 
deal with exactly what she was asking about.


On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:44:57 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar 
wrote:


"Hose it down" implies water at pressure? -- superior to soaking and
agitation in a solvent like mineral spirits?


On 09/02/2017 07:39 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
> Ann, I also think the best option for you is stainless chain, White
> Lightning Clean Ride bottled lube, hose it down to clean, let it
dry
> and re-apply the bottled lube.
> --



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[RBW] Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Garth]

You really have to know yourself as to your gear selections. Me, I would not 
get any cassette that had a 21 to 26 tooth jump on it like some of the wide 
range ones do. I would even question a 100" high gear. I could just as easily 
live with around 90 since it is actually used by me much more than a 100, and I 
live in a hilly area. Coasting at high speed is alot more fun.  So it looks 
like for a setup like yours that'd be a 12-32/34 8 sp. 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32 
or 34. If I am in a situation where I really needed a 24-32, an even lower gear 
would not really help since going that slow is no fun for me anyways so I'd 
rather not ride on such roads. So between a 32 or 34 that'd be an either-or, 
whichever one has all the other cogs. Sunrace seems to have both. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help from coastal riders: how to deal with sand?

[Ron Mc]

Steve, I'm talking about simplicity.  No, nothing is better than ultrasonic 
w/ mineral spirits for cleaning chains.  
What I was talking about was living with salt, sand and grit.  
But I've also done 1000 mi on a chain using Clean Ride and the hose, about 
every 100 mi, and it works.  
It's not as clean in the long-run as the wax lube - it's light-years ahead 
of oil lube for clean - but a simple day-to-day way for her to deal with 
exactly what she was asking about.  

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:44:57 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> "Hose it down" implies water at pressure? -- superior to soaking and 
> agitation in a solvent like mineral spirits? 
>
>
> On 09/02/2017 07:39 AM, Ron Mc wrote: 
> > Ann, I also think the best option for you is stainless chain, White 
> > Lightning Clean Ride bottled lube, hose it down to clean, let it dry 
> > and re-apply the bottled lube. 
> > -- 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: S24O Report: Avoiding the Toilet-Eating-Bog by Bikepacking to Another

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm often suspect. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 10:04:57 PM UTC-6, mlpessar wrote:
>
> I suspected Patrick. "God's Grandeur" is a personal favorite.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help from coastal riders: how to deal with sand?

[Steve Palincsar]

"Hose it down" implies water at pressure? -- superior to soaking and 
agitation in a solvent like mineral spirits?



On 09/02/2017 07:39 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
Ann, I also think the best option for you is stainless chain, White 
Lightning Clean Ride bottled lube, hose it down to clean, let it dry 
and re-apply the bottled lube.

--


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Re: [RBW] Re: Help from coastal riders: how to deal with sand?

[Ron Mc]

Ann, I also think the best option for you is stainless chain, White 
Lightning Clean Ride bottled lube, hose it down to clean, let it dry and 
re-apply the bottled lube.  

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[RBW] Mavic Open Pro and dynamo wheel question

[Matt Beecher]

I've tried Velocity Dyads on my dynamo wheels and they are ok if running 
32-35mm tires, but I've always considered Mavic Open Pros and 28's to be my 
favorite rim/tire choice.  That said, I don't think I have ever seen them 
on dynamo wheels and I wonder why.  Is it just that dynamo users tend to 
want wider tires, or are the Mavics just a bad choice for that type of 
wheel?  Since I have not seen any such wheels listed for sale, and before I 
buy the materials and build myself a wheel, I was hoping for 
recommendations on whether or not to avoid it.  

Thanks for any input,
Matt B.
Oswego, IL





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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Pro 5 Vis ring very out of true or out of round

[Peter White]

Rotating the ring will make no useful difference, though it will tell you
how much of the runout is in the ring and how much is in the crank.

While the Pro 5 Vis crank can be used as a single speed, it was never
intended for use without a chain tensioner, which rear derailleurs include
by default. So TA doesn't need to be very precise in centering the ring or
the crank itself.

PJW
Peter White Cycles
Which, among other things, is a TA distributor.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Joe Bunik  wrote:

> IMO, Pro-5 rings have a single proper orientation and 4 unintended
> positions. I doubt this will solve your issue, but try for the spot
> where the crankarm splits the difference (and so is centered) between
> the pair of bolts. At least your setup will look proper! ;-P
>
> =- Joe Bunik
> meltdown in
> Walnut Creek CA
>
> On 9/1/17, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> > Yesterday, for the very first time, or at least for the first time in
> such
> > a long time that I can't remember the last time, I threw a chain on one
> of
> > my Rivendell fixies: 48 t Pro 5 Vis ring, the 17 t cog on a 17/19 Dingle.
> > Although I was going downhills, I wasn't going fast, so there was no real
> > damage done, a few minor scratches on the chainstay.
> >
> > I examined the chain tension carefully, of course, and notice clearly for
> > the first time that the ring is very much out of round: at one point in
> its
> > revolution the chain will be quite slack, at the point of highest tension
> > is can be too tight, with no give at all.
> >
> > So this afternoon I undid all the little *&%#(^#% fiddly bolts to loosen
> > it, hoping I could nudge it into a more regular position on the spider;
> > nope, even with all the bolts loosened to the point where the ring was
> > flopping around, the same slack point and the same tight point.
> >
> > I took the whole thing apart and will try re-orienting the ring on the
> > spider -- ie, lining up different bolt holes on ring with different ones
> on
> > spider, but this is very weird, and here (deep breath) are my questions:
> >
> > Can rings, and older Pro 5 Vis rings in particular, just be drilled or
> > stamped or cut off center?
> >
> > Is there a magic, lazyman technique to find the best orientation of ring
> to
> > spider without having to ploddingly try each hole in the ring with each
> > hole in the spider?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> > Other professional writing services.
> > http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> > Patrick Moore
> > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> > 
> **
> > **
> > *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
> >
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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/01/2017 10:26 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

Thanks, Steve

This cassette is for my 24/40 compact cranks. So I need the 11 to get 
me in the 94" range with my 650B x 40 tires so I don't spin out too, 
too soon on the long downhills.


Yes, to get a useful gear with an 11T sprocket and any "normal" sized 
wheel, you need a chainring as tiny as a 40.  I'm much happier with a 46 
or 48T big ring, they last much longer than a 40, and what's more there 
are derailleurs made to fit rings that size (unlike a 40).


Also, on the other end of the cassette, I am a weakling rider and need 
the 32 cog to get up local hills and still stay in the big ring. Thus 
the wide range to stay in one ring.
I use the 24 ring as a physical-gear-dump-bail-out on anything over 8% 
grades so I don't blow up and can get to the top without gasping for air.
Huffing and puffing on rides too many times on 8%+ hills means me 
blowing up before the ride is through. So I like to take it easy on 
the steep stuff.


I don't know how people do mountainous centuries with 39/53 and 11-27 
cassettes. I could not even ride my local hills with that gearing.




I'm definitely with you there!

Now with my 24-36-46 triple, I use a 7-speed 13-30. I spin out a 
little early for my taste, but tolerably so with that setup. I just 
coast when I get to 30mph.




If you ever want to go to 8 with that setup, try that custom 13-32. 
Works great.  46x13 on a 700x32 wheel is higher than your 94".


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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/01/2017 11:36 PM, dougP wrote:


Whatever you get, carefully check the tooth count to make sure it's as 
useful as you want.  I picked up a box the other day for a SRAM 11-32 
that seemed impressively light.  Then I noticed it was 11-12-14 etc.  
With a 44 "big ring" & 700c x 40 mm tires, I hardly need a 4:1 top 
gear.  My reaction was "11, 12, oh, great; now 2 gears I'll rarely use".




Exactly.  Note that all I needed to do to convert my 8 speed Sunrace 
12-32 (an excellent tandem gearing set, by the way) to a more useful 
13-32 was to remove and replace the 1st position 12 with a 1st position 13.


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[RBW] Re: Sunrace make good cassettes?

[lum gim fong]

Yeah, I checked t-count, tooth jump counts between cogs to match what I like, 
and gear inches to get the range I need to stay on the big ring for everything 
south of 7 or 8% climbing grades.
Still on the fence about the 32 vs. 34. Not sure if I need to go 34. I think it 
is a 2.5 gear inch diff. I don't know if that will be noticeable on sub7% 
grades or not.

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