[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[Joe Bernard]

Safety orange and pink. I like it! 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

I can say that the Appaloosa long chainstays fell incredibly smooth for rough 
gravel decents. Although, I haven't had a chance to directly compare with an 
Atlantis in those same conditions. Issac (nwbirdman) has an Atlantis here in 
PDX that's my exact size, so maybe we can do some thorough testing and report 
back.

Cheers,
Tim

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[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Joe Bernard]

Oh man, the thumb rest is the BEST.

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[RBW] Frank Jones Sr first ride.

[Philip Williamson]

That’s fantastic. I agree on pedal width - narrow pedals can make the whole 
bike feel sketchy. I would keep at the gear you’ve got, and get the flow of 
standing to clear tall bridges. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 

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[RBW] Re: Delete post when something is sold

[Philip Williamson]

I’m a “just post SOLD” guy. Deleted posts are creepy.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Surlyprof]

I’m with you, Joe.  I love my B,B mug.  Gotta love that thumb rest.

John

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[Scott Blouke]

I like the roadrunner Jammer bag.  Its good as a saddle bag or a handlebar 
bag, its rackless and has a solid mounting.
https://roadrunnerbags.us/products/the-jammer-bag  They have a larger one 
and a lot of 
colors https://roadrunnerbags.us/blogs/road-runner-bags/colors-of-the-rainbow

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 3:40:48 PM UTC-7, lambbo wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I've been struggling with an *very* important question: how to 
> carry things on my new (much loved) Roadini.  The bike is set up with 
> clip-in pedals and I'd like a way to bring some walking shoes and a snack 
> plus a few small tools etc. with me on long rides. 
>
> Anyone have experience with either:
>
> Sackville SmallSack, in the back (worried it will hit my thighs and, 
> despite what I hear, I think that would be annoying)
> or
> Swift Industries 'handlebar bag' of some sort, which is smaller seeming 
> but also has the convenience of a clear top for the phone or map. 
>
> Thanks!
> photo below is old, before ultegra pedals and front der., 
> the set up is IRD compact double crank, tiagra front and rear der, 48 
> Noodles, brooks B17 and bar tape, silver shifters (rear, bar-end, front, 
> downtube), old shimano brakes from old road bike, Jack Browns, and (too few 
> spokes?) Mavic Askium wheels that the guy who sold me the frame included 
> for a very generous price. 
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Max S]

*planing* ???  8-0 

... although I do seriously wonder whether the relatively longer chainstays 
contribute to frame flex in a way that effectively compensates for the 
relatively heavier gauge tubing ... 


On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:53:15 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I can’t decide what I think of the long chain stays. I get used to riding 
> my Joe carrying a heavy load and forget that without a lot of weight it 
> feels as fast as my Sam. The long chain stays do change the ride feel. I 
> like Grant’s description but the image that I always arrive at is a motor 
> boat. It kinda floats like on water but still responds quickly. I don’t 
> have that feeling on the Sam. Some of the differences could be the build 
> which has a heavy rack, burly wheels, etc. The bike fits on my car rack and 
> the Portland Bus rack. 
>
> The new Atlantis looks great but I also fail to see much difference 
> between that Joe and Atlantis, unless the Atlantis is made for drop bars. 
> Perhaps the Joe is more of the Hunqapilar now. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Jonathan D.]

I can’t decide what I think of the long chain stays. I get used to riding my 
Joe carrying a heavy load and forget that without a lot of weight it feels as 
fast as my Sam. The long chain stays do change the ride feel. I like Grant’s 
description but the image that I always arrive at is a motor boat. It kinda 
floats like on water but still responds quickly. I don’t have that feeling on 
the Sam. Some of the differences could be the build which has a heavy rack, 
burly wheels, etc. The bike fits on my car rack and the Portland Bus rack. 

The new Atlantis looks great but I also fail to see much difference between 
that Joe and Atlantis, unless the Atlantis is made for drop bars. Perhaps the 
Joe is more of the Hunqapilar now. 

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[RBW] Re: "RBW Blue"

[MKahrl]

If you mean the blue used on the AHH, Testors Gloss Blue.  
1110-RM11101_0611.

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-4, jandrews_nyc wrote:
>
> Greetings, 
> Has anyone found a suitable match for the home touch up types amongst us 
> with a frame in this color?
> JS
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

Thanks for the correction to my mistaken attribution.  I knew I'd seen it 
in the current Atlantis discussion & failed to fact check.  Dave deserves 
credit for devising such a clever & descriptive unit of measure.  

dougP

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:07:33 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> It was actually Dave who used (qoined - no pun intended) the "penny 
> difference" analogy.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[James Warren]

Rivs are like that. I climb great on mine too. But I have those short racey Rivs with 46 cm and 45.5 cm stays.-Original Message-
From: Jeremy Till 
Sent: Mar 21, 2018 1:47 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

Not a 60cm Cheviot, it's a 59cm Clem in my case, but I can attest to its lusciousness, especially off-road.  It is very confidence inspiring downhill, and is the best bike I've ever ridden at climbing steep hills.  On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 1:18:34 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:I'm with Ryan. We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live surrounded by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's not DP-Rocky Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's hard to beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the challenges of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups, and I'm sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for. Bikes tend to grow taller faster than they grow longer, and tall people end up like circus bears on tiny bikes. That's an exagerration, but the point is, they sit high on a short bike, with their butt too close to the rear hub. It's a wacky weight distribution, but it's tolerable and you can get used to it, but it's-- just not right. Also, shorter bikes tend to be jumpy, and benefit from longer wheelbases, and the best way to lengthen them is in back. A longer front-center certainly helps, too, but at some point it rules out drop bars. That's a bad thing if you're locked in to them, but also, the length of the top tube alone doesn't tell you all you need to know about how much you have to lean and far you have to reach to grab the bars. It depends so much on bar height..and seat tube angle affects it, and have you ever thought about convergence and divergence as it relates to head and seat tube angles and bar and saddle height? We do that. In some ways it's ridiculous, but the same ridiculous thinking goes into all of the dimensions, including chainstay length. For a steep hairy descent, the best bike has a monster front-center dimension--too long for school, for sure---and a longer chainstay, too. You might think (logically, this is good thinking) that a shorter chainstay provides more traction up hills and makes it easier to weight the rear wheel on steep downhills. There are other considerations more important (imo), though. A shorter bike (chainstay and front-center) wheelies and endos sooner. Sweepy back'd Boscos make it easy to push the front wheel way ahead and stop an endo, and a long front center and chainstay fight the leverage that lead to one wheel or the other lifting off the ground.Those are radical circumstance, but on even a flat smooth road, length adds a quality to the ride that can't be had without it. I'm sure somebody reading this has a 60cm Cheviot. Tell the group how luscious it feels. If you haven't ridden a bike like that, it's hard to swallow, and even if you have, it's hard to explain (so, "luscious" is how I do it). The bike's no slower for it, but you don't have to be on high alert. We're not moving away from anything valuable, and an extra inch or two or three of chaintay is still a small percentage of the total. It just seems more when you convert inches to centimeters and focus on the tire-to-seat tube gap. I seriously, honestly believe that our current bikes ride even better than the older ones--which have always been and still are great-riding bikes.  Changes are always tough, we will lose people, it's normal to question why or attribute it to some brain-change or something, but the changes that you see are evolutionary and in a good direction, I think.On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Ryan Merrill  wrote:I have a feeling the stability offered by the long chainstays on the Appaloosa is going to be pretty nice for the manner in which I'm going to ride it. The gravel roads I'm going to take it on could use a little bit more stability. I don't know if the bike will fit on my Kuat rack though...got to find out about that. I suspect not, so it will be something I have to remedy. I could see how carrying around a rather long bike could get to be a burden in an urban setting. Luckily, I don't live in an urban setting and instead am in the country. We'll see. On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:12:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow stairs on a regular basis. Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and 

[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Joe Bernard]

Well now my Bike, Book & Hatchet version seems even more rare. Maybe I should 
put it on Ebay for some ridiculous price like that doofus who lists "vintage" 
Rivendell bottles for $50. Nahh, I'm keepin' it! 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

It was actually Dave who used (qoined - no pun intended) the "penny difference" 
analogy.

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[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[REC]

It IS missing!  Perhaps like a lot of Riv’s items that “seem” expensive, it’s 
not until you see the quality that you get that “ah-ha” moment.   

Leah, mine is still winging its way to me across the country. I hope it gets 
here tomorrow.  I’m glad you like yours.  

Roberta

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Black Saddlesack Large or Medium

[Dave Brandt]

I have a medium black in great condition serial number 0034. I have it on a 
Tout Terrain that I’m planning on selling the bike, so I could part with it. I 
searched a long time for it and will take $250 for it. 

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

['thalasin' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bob,

Yes!  It's me!  I'm living in Michigan now.  Sold on the mug, will message 
you off-list.

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Tracy

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 9:22:44 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Tracy (maybe formerly) from Denver and BikeDenver?
>
> The answer would be yes, I do have one, and though beautiful and great, it 
> is slightly smaller than my coffee habit needs.
>
> Used three times for coffee and tea... Would be cleaned and wrapped and 
> shipped carefully.
>
> I will say $25 shipped but I will also say I remember the good work you 
> did (if you are that Tracy) for Bike Denver and the Denver bike and transit 
> groups.  
>
> Let me know!  
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL
> (formerly of Denver and BikeDenver)
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:55:21 PM UTC-5, thalasin wrote:
>>
>> My Rivendell mug unfortunately met with its demise thanks to my klutzy 
>> ways.  I had one in my cart to order but foolishly waited, hoping that some 
>> out of stock stuff would reappear to add to the order.  Alas, not only did 
>> that not happen, but now the mugs are gone and removed from the site.  
>> Given the current state of affairs, it's probably going to be awhile before 
>> any promo stuff shows up (if ever).  Anyway, it was my favorite mug and I 
>> miss it dearly.  We can discuss price and I will of course pay shipping.
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Bob Lovejoy]

Tracy (maybe formerly) from Denver and BikeDenver?

The answer would be yes, I do have one, and though beautiful and great, it 
is slightly smaller than my coffee habit needs.

Used three times for coffee and tea... Would be cleaned and wrapped and 
shipped carefully.

I will say $25 shipped but I will also say I remember the good work you did 
(if you are that Tracy) for Bike Denver and the Denver bike and transit 
groups.  

Let me know!  

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL
(formerly of Denver and BikeDenver)


On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:55:21 PM UTC-5, thalasin wrote:
>
> My Rivendell mug unfortunately met with its demise thanks to my klutzy 
> ways.  I had one in my cart to order but foolishly waited, hoping that some 
> out of stock stuff would reappear to add to the order.  Alas, not only did 
> that not happen, but now the mugs are gone and removed from the site.  
> Given the current state of affairs, it's probably going to be awhile before 
> any promo stuff shows up (if ever).  Anyway, it was my favorite mug and I 
> miss it dearly.  We can discuss price and I will of course pay shipping.
>
> Tracy
>

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[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Horror!  Dear Roberta from this list gave me one of those mugs as a gift, and I 
treasure it. I feel so happy when I see the details in the bikes pictured on 
the face of the mug. My favorite is the bike with the dog in the front basket, 
as I am convinced that my dog is the inspiration behind this!  I extra love it 
because it’s made in Minnesota, which is, of course, God’s Country. 

Are you sure they won’t have more coming in? After Roberta bought mine, she 
loved it so much; she only had to wait a week or two and it was back in stock 
and it is in the mail or on her counter right now. 

I’m so sorry this happened to you!

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[RBW] Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[Ken Yokanovich]

Try transporting a HubbuHubbuH sometime;)

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[RBW] Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

['thalasin' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My Rivendell mug unfortunately met with its demise thanks to my klutzy 
ways.  I had one in my cart to order but foolishly waited, hoping that some 
out of stock stuff would reappear to add to the order.  Alas, not only did 
that not happen, but now the mugs are gone and removed from the site.  
Given the current state of affairs, it's probably going to be awhile before 
any promo stuff shows up (if ever).  Anyway, it was my favorite mug and I 
miss it dearly.  We can discuss price and I will of course pay shipping.

Tracy

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[RBW] Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[tc]

Just noticed one of your snowy pix is featured on Riv’s main site!  I always 
appreciate your efforts to document your rides, Patrick!

Tom

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[RBW] Quickbeam review

[Deacon Patrick]

I’m pretty sure Jan prefers to sell back issues and doesn’t release digital. 
Back issue options here:
https://www.compasscycle.com/product-category/print/issues/

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Quickbeam review

[alan lavine]

Hi All,
Jan did a review of the Quickbeam in BQ #12, summer 2005.  I thought I had 
the complete collection but apparently not.  Anyone know how to access it 
on the internets?

Thanks,
Alan

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[jandrews_nyc]

The banana sax type of bag would also be very useful and you'd never feel 
it.  Not sure if it would carry your shoes though,.
Also, I second the notion of trying the caradice bagman support. I have had 
a good experience with that rack.
That looks like McGorlick Park in Greenpiont...   Is that were you are?





On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:04:19 PM UTC-4, CMR wrote:
>
> Small saddle bag for sure, maybe with a support rack if needed.
>
> Also, not related, I'd totally spend the money for a set of modern dual 
> pivot brakes if you are not happy with the older ones on there. Would be a 
> big improvement ;)
>
> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 3:40:48 PM UTC-7, lambbo wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks, I've been struggling with an *very* important question: how to 
>> carry things on my new (much loved) Roadini.  The bike is set up with 
>> clip-in pedals and I'd like a way to bring some walking shoes and a snack 
>> plus a few small tools etc. with me on long rides. 
>>
>> Anyone have experience with either:
>>
>> Sackville SmallSack, in the back (worried it will hit my thighs and, 
>> despite what I hear, I think that would be annoying)
>> or
>> Swift Industries 'handlebar bag' of some sort, which is smaller seeming 
>> but also has the convenience of a clear top for the phone or map. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>> photo below is old, before ultegra pedals and front der., 
>> the set up is IRD compact double crank, tiagra front and rear der, 48 
>> Noodles, brooks B17 and bar tape, silver shifters (rear, bar-end, front, 
>> downtube), old shimano brakes from old road bike, Jack Browns, and (too few 
>> spokes?) Mavic Askium wheels that the guy who sold me the frame included 
>> for a very generous price. 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

This extensive discussion of chainstay length got me to thinking:  how much 
difference are we really talking?  Or is the big gap in the photo just 
freaking people out?  So I dug out my old Atlantis flyer from before I 
bought mine in '03.  Here's some chainstay length figures from the original 
design (I presume) and from current web posting:

early 2000s:

56 cm (26" wheels):  44 cm
58 cm (700c) :  45.5 cm

current (May 2017 chart)

56 cm (650B)  :  47.5 cm
56 cm (26") 46 cm
58 cm (700c)   47 cm

Over time, the chainstays have grown somewhat but nothing radical.  Of 
course, the large gap and Riv's general evolution to longer chainstays 
suggests something even longer, but until geo charts are published, we can 
only speculate.  

To put the extra length into perspective, I measured the wheelbase of my 58 
cm / 700c bike at +/-107 cm.  From original to current, the 58 cm 
chainstays have grown 1.5 cm, extending the wheelbase approx 1.4%.  Going 
out on a limb here but I'll guess that's an extremely subtle change, at 
best.  

Now of course the next question is how the further extension of chainstays 
on the MIT version will impact ride, handling, etc.  The announcement says 
"made it better here and there" and Grant's use of the term 
"...penny" on various measurements suggests pretty subtle and 
incremental changes.  Likely they've learned a lot from their trend toward 
longer wheelbases as they've been at it for a few years now.  Remember the 
Mystery Bike project?  And now the production bikes designed as LWB 
models?  The Atlantis is such an icon that my guess is they were pretty 
darn conservative and didn't do anything that have comprised the 
performance.  

You gotta trust somebody.  I'll bet on Grant & the elves of Walnut Creek.

dougP

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:10:48 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The BLUG today announced an upcoming pre-sale for a less expensive 
> Atlantis.  No doubt they will be made in Taiwan.  The pricing hint is "a 
> tad more than an Appaloosa".  Is it good that Rivendell is evolving?  I say 
> yes.  Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  I say sure, a 
> little.  I'd bet a dollar that some of their recent cashflow worries came 
> from the financials around this change.  Made to order frames are expensive 
> but cost you nothing until somebody wants to buy one.  Taiwan builds have 
> to be done in expensive pre-paid runs, which require a bunch of cash on 
> hand.  
>
> The curved double TT of the biggest size was on instagram I think.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

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[RBW] FS: Rivy Clothes & Sackville

[Max S]

I’d live the Multi-Sack (Riv don’t got em no more?..) 

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[RBW] Re: Bosco Bars

[Wayne Naha]

You will always return to your dark master, the cocoa bean! 


 

> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>>
>> I wonder why they call them Bosco bars? Who or what is a "Bosco"?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[CMR]

Small saddle bag for sure, maybe with a support rack if needed.

Also, not related, I'd totally spend the money for a set of modern dual 
pivot brakes if you are not happy with the older ones on there. Would be a 
big improvement ;)

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 3:40:48 PM UTC-7, lambbo wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I've been struggling with an *very* important question: how to 
> carry things on my new (much loved) Roadini.  The bike is set up with 
> clip-in pedals and I'd like a way to bring some walking shoes and a snack 
> plus a few small tools etc. with me on long rides. 
>
> Anyone have experience with either:
>
> Sackville SmallSack, in the back (worried it will hit my thighs and, 
> despite what I hear, I think that would be annoying)
> or
> Swift Industries 'handlebar bag' of some sort, which is smaller seeming 
> but also has the convenience of a clear top for the phone or map. 
>
> Thanks!
> photo below is old, before ultegra pedals and front der., 
> the set up is IRD compact double crank, tiagra front and rear der, 48 
> Noodles, brooks B17 and bar tape, silver shifters (rear, bar-end, front, 
> downtube), old shimano brakes from old road bike, Jack Browns, and (too few 
> spokes?) Mavic Askium wheels that the guy who sold me the frame included 
> for a very generous price. 
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[lconley]

I like to use a saddlebag with a Carradice Bagman support. It moves the bag 
away from your legs - never touches. I have two - one on a Ostrich 
S-2 saddle bag and one on a Nigel Smythe country bag. Plenty of room for 
day rides for shoes, food, tools, and a compact pump. I wish Riv still did 
the Nigel Smythe bags, but they seem to have evolved from the tweed thing 
to something more like shabby chic. The Ostrich actually has a sewn-in 
pocket on the bottom for the support.

Laing
Cocoa FL


>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[Joe Bernard]

I use a small Saddlesack. It will brush your thighs, which is ok by me but you 
already know you won't like it. 

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[lambbo]

By 'smallsack' I mean 'saddle-sack' small 

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 6:40:48 PM UTC-4, lambbo wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I've been struggling with an *very* important question: how to 
> carry things on my new (much loved) Roadini.  The bike is set up with 
> clip-in pedals and I'd like a way to bring some walking shoes and a snack 
> plus a few small tools etc. with me on long rides. 
>
> Anyone have experience with either:
>
> Sackville SmallSack, in the back (worried it will hit my thighs and, 
> despite what I hear, I think that would be annoying)
> or
> Swift Industries 'handlebar bag' of some sort, which is smaller seeming 
> but also has the convenience of a clear top for the phone or map. 
>
> Thanks!
> photo below is old, before ultegra pedals and front der., 
> the set up is IRD compact double crank, tiagra front and rear der, 48 
> Noodles, brooks B17 and bar tape, silver shifters (rear, bar-end, front, 
> downtube), old shimano brakes from old road bike, Jack Browns, and (too few 
> spokes?) Mavic Askium wheels that the guy who sold me the frame included 
> for a very generous price. 
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[Michael Doleman]

The issue of transporting the bike on public transpo racks never occurred 
to me, but I'll say that the (overly, IMO) long chainstay definitely 
played-into my decision to sell the Appaloosa that I'd picked-up a little 
over a year ago. I liked many of the characteristics of the bike, but there 
was just something about the way the bike rode which did not suit me, and I 
attributed that to the chainstay length and/or wheelbase. I also found it 
to be rather annoying that I had to splice chains together in order to get 
a long enough span to cover a completely normal gear range.

I know that I'm theoretically not supposed to notice the effect of the long 
wheelbase on bike "performance," but to me the bike did feel very different 
from what I'm used-to, and prefer. Maybe it was, also, the weight of the 
bike -- another thing I know I'm supposed to not care about, but do, a 
little. I've gotten myself a new Sam H., which is -- by my accounting -- 
just about the finest do-all bike I've ever owned or ridden (and I have 
owned and ridden quite a few).

Anyway, I'm not tearing-down the Appaloosa by any means, here, nor the 
longer chainstay models from Riv. They're just not for everyone, and they 
definitely are a little outside the range of what's typically accommodated 
by various racks and other storage/transport means. But that's all 
changing, to some degree. Here in Portland, where all sorts of non-normal 
bikes -- such as cargo and child-carrying bikes -- are becoming more 
popular, you see solutions popping-up to accommodate them more.





On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:34:18 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> I was just thinking about how Rivendell is moving towards very long 
> chainstays, and how that might impact people wanting to put their bike on 
> the racks on city buses, or the hooks on light rail trains. I don't 
> personally use either very often, but do occasionally need to do both 
> options. I personally wouldn't consider a bike that was too long for the 
> bus or commuter train. I don't know how long the new Atlantis is, but in 
> the case of the Clem in my size, I'm pretty sure that they are too long for 
> the racks on Seattle city buses. I'm not sure on others, since the geometry 
> charts don't list wheelbase length. It probably impacts transporting your 
> bike with a car as well.
>
> I'm not arguing for or against the choice - it just got me thinking that 
> there is a potential downside that is unrelated to whether or not you like 
> the handling or looks.
>
> Eamon
> Seattle
>

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[RBW] New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[lambbo]

Hi folks, I've been struggling with an *very* important question: how to 
carry things on my new (much loved) Roadini.  The bike is set up with 
clip-in pedals and I'd like a way to bring some walking shoes and a snack 
plus a few small tools etc. with me on long rides. 

Anyone have experience with either:

Sackville SmallSack, in the back (worried it will hit my thighs and, 
despite what I hear, I think that would be annoying)
or
Swift Industries 'handlebar bag' of some sort, which is smaller seeming but 
also has the convenience of a clear top for the phone or map. 

Thanks!
photo below is old, before ultegra pedals and front der., 
the set up is IRD compact double crank, tiagra front and rear der, 48 
Noodles, brooks B17 and bar tape, silver shifters (rear, bar-end, front, 
downtube), old shimano brakes from old road bike, Jack Browns, and (too few 
spokes?) Mavic Askium wheels that the guy who sold me the frame included 
for a very generous price. 



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[RBW] FS: good stuff

[adam leibow]

Hello RBW OB,

I have some good stuff for sale on my selling instagram. I just added a 
58cm black mountain cycles, and I have some smaller Riv~ish goods of note. 

Please look: https://www.instagram.com/adom_sale/

Text me if interested: (310 963 6959

Thanks!

Adam

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

I rode recumbents for a few years. All Rivs seem short to me ;-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Jeremy Till]

Not a 60cm Cheviot, it's a 59cm Clem in my case, but I can attest to its 
lusciousness, especially off-road.  It is very confidence inspiring 
downhill, and is the best bike I've ever ridden at climbing steep hills.  

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 1:18:34 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> I'm with Ryan. We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we 
> live surrounded by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. 
> It's not DP-Rocky Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, 
> it's hard to beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have 
> the challenges of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor 
> walkups, and I'm sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are 
> for. 
>
> Bikes tend to grow taller faster than they grow longer, and tall people 
> end up like circus bears on tiny bikes. That's an exagerration, but the 
> point is, they sit high on a short bike, with their butt too close to the 
> rear hub. It's a wacky weight distribution, but it's tolerable and you can 
> get used to it, but it's-- just not right. Also, shorter bikes tend to be 
> jumpy, and benefit from longer wheelbases, and the best way to lengthen 
> them is in back. A longer front-center certainly helps, too, but at some 
> point it rules out drop bars. 
>
> That's a bad thing if you're locked in to them, but also, the length of 
> the top tube alone doesn't tell you all you need to know about how much you 
> have to lean and far you have to reach to grab the bars. It depends so much 
> on bar height..and seat tube angle affects it, and have you ever thought 
> about convergence and divergence as it relates to head and seat tube angles 
> and bar and saddle height? We do that. In some ways it's ridiculous, but 
> the same ridiculous thinking goes into all of the dimensions, including 
> chainstay length. 
>
> For a steep hairy descent, the best bike has a monster front-center 
> dimension--too long for school, for sure---and a longer chainstay, too. You 
> might think (logically, this is good thinking) that a shorter chainstay 
> provides more traction up hills and makes it easier to weight the rear 
> wheel on steep downhills. There are other considerations more important 
> (imo), though. A shorter bike (chainstay and front-center) wheelies and 
> endos sooner. Sweepy back'd Boscos make it easy to push the front wheel way 
> ahead and stop an endo, and a long front center and chainstay fight the 
> leverage that lead to one wheel or the other lifting off the ground.
>
> Those are radical circumstance, but on even a flat smooth road, length 
> adds a quality to the ride that can't be had without it. I'm sure somebody 
> reading this has a 60cm Cheviot. Tell the group how luscious it feels. If 
> you haven't ridden a bike like that, it's hard to swallow, and even if you 
> have, it's hard to explain (so, "luscious" is how I do it). The bike's no 
> slower for it, but you don't have to be on high alert. 
>
> We're not moving away from anything valuable, and an extra inch or two or 
> three of chaintay is still a small percentage of the total. It just seems 
> more when you convert inches to centimeters and focus on the tire-to-seat 
> tube gap. I seriously, honestly believe that our current bikes ride even 
> better than the older ones--which have always been and still are 
> great-riding bikes.  Changes are always tough, we will lose people, it's 
> normal to question why or attribute it to some brain-change or something, 
> but the changes that you see are evolutionary and in a good direction, I 
> think.
>
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Ryan Merrill  > wrote:
>
>> I have a feeling the stability offered by the long chainstays on the 
>> Appaloosa is going to be pretty nice for the manner in which I'm going to 
>> ride it. The gravel roads I'm going to take it on could use a little bit 
>> more stability. I don't know if the bike will fit on my Kuat rack 
>> though...got to find out about that. I suspect not, so it will be something 
>> I have to remedy. 
>>
>> I could see how carrying around a rather long bike could get to be a 
>> burden in an urban setting. Luckily, I don't live in an urban setting and 
>> instead am in the country. We'll see. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:12:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:
>>
>>> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that 
>>> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The 
>>> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like 
>>> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are 
>>> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard 
>>> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow 
>>> stairs on a regular basis. 
>>>
>>> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant 
>>> and Co. should absolutely evolve 

[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[Jeremy Till]

My commute involves an Amtrak train with hanging bike hooks, which are 
barely high enough for large-sized "normal" bikes: when I hang my 64cm Long 
Haul Trucker by it's front wheel, it's rear wheel is just barely off the 
ground.  When I've used my 59cm Clem for the commute, I've discovered the 
technique of hanging it by the rear wheel and turning the front wheel to 
one side to allow it to hang.  A little annoying, but doable.  I did also 
once put it on the front rack of a bus and don't remember any issues, but 
that's not something I do regularly.  

I am considering purchasing hitch-mount tray-style bike rack soon (similar 
to a bus rack) and definitely would like to find something that 
accommodates the Clem, since I regularly drive it up to the Sierra 
foothills to go mountain biking.  

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:35:11 PM UTC-7, Birdman wrote:
>
> Part of my daily commute in Portland (OR) is on a light rail train.  I 
> ride a 68cm Quickbeam and a 65cm Atlantis from 2017 that has the 48cm 
> chainstays.  The Quickbeam fits on the bike hooks with maybe an inch to 
> spare, but the Atlantis is a no go.  I definitely see it as a con of the 
> longer chainstays, but not enough to take away from the benefits.  The 
> Atlantis handles unlike any bike I've ever ridden: smooth, steady, and sure 
> while remaining responsive.  I suspect that some of it is due to what are, 
> compared to all other bikes I've owned, pretty darn long chainstays.  I'd 
> love to try a Clem or an Appaloosa and see what the super long stays are 
> all about...
>
> Isaac
> pdx  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: SOMA Demi Porteur

[Joe Bernard]

Yep yep, lighter for light loads is what I'm looking for. I have a Nitto Big 
Rack on the rear for the heavy stuff, I REALLY dislike weight on my forks. 

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[RBW] Re: Billie Bar Width - New Albatross

[Jeremy Till]

There's a better picture of the Bille Bar in Grant's Blahg post from last 
week: 

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/mid-march-mostly-nonsense-but-not-all-nonsense

First picture after you scroll past the pages from the Book of Nonsense.  

Cool looking bar!  It has me considering going back to uprights on my 
Trucker after riding it with drops for a couple of years.  

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Jonathan wrote:
>
> I went from Chocomoose bars (54cm) to Boscomoose (58cm) and was surprised 
> at how much wider they felt. I really like the way the wider bars feel. I 
> feel much more in control, and a lot more comfortable too. Those new Billie 
> bars look nice.
>
> I remember you had posted about wanting to try a set of Boscos. Did you 
> ever find a set?
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 7:08:41 PM UTC-5, Tim O. (Portland, OR) 
> wrote:
>>
>> News flash: The new Billie bars will be 58cm wide! I emailed Riv to ask 
>> and made sure it was okay to share with y'all.
>>
>> If you haven't heard of them yet, they are a longer sweep, less rise and 
>> wider albatross. I kind of think this is a picture of them that they 
>> quietly snuck on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf5JwDeAFkR/ 
>> anyone know for sure?
>>
>> I'm stoked and I know there are others who've been wanting a wide 
>> albatross bar. I wonder how much different that extra 3cm does. Guess I'll 
>> have to buy some to find out!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

I'm with Ryan. We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live
surrounded by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's
not DP-Rocky Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's
hard to beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the
challenges of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups,
and I'm sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for.

Bikes tend to grow taller faster than they grow longer, and tall people end
up like circus bears on tiny bikes. That's an exagerration, but the point
is, they sit high on a short bike, with their butt too close to the rear
hub. It's a wacky weight distribution, but it's tolerable and you can get
used to it, but it's-- just not right. Also, shorter bikes tend to be
jumpy, and benefit from longer wheelbases, and the best way to lengthen
them is in back. A longer front-center certainly helps, too, but at some
point it rules out drop bars.

That's a bad thing if you're locked in to them, but also, the length of the
top tube alone doesn't tell you all you need to know about how much you
have to lean and far you have to reach to grab the bars. It depends so much
on bar height..and seat tube angle affects it, and have you ever thought
about convergence and divergence as it relates to head and seat tube angles
and bar and saddle height? We do that. In some ways it's ridiculous, but
the same ridiculous thinking goes into all of the dimensions, including
chainstay length.

For a steep hairy descent, the best bike has a monster front-center
dimension--too long for school, for sure---and a longer chainstay, too. You
might think (logically, this is good thinking) that a shorter chainstay
provides more traction up hills and makes it easier to weight the rear
wheel on steep downhills. There are other considerations more important
(imo), though. A shorter bike (chainstay and front-center) wheelies and
endos sooner. Sweepy back'd Boscos make it easy to push the front wheel way
ahead and stop an endo, and a long front center and chainstay fight the
leverage that lead to one wheel or the other lifting off the ground.

Those are radical circumstance, but on even a flat smooth road, length adds
a quality to the ride that can't be had without it. I'm sure somebody
reading this has a 60cm Cheviot. Tell the group how luscious it feels. If
you haven't ridden a bike like that, it's hard to swallow, and even if you
have, it's hard to explain (so, "luscious" is how I do it). The bike's no
slower for it, but you don't have to be on high alert.

We're not moving away from anything valuable, and an extra inch or two or
three of chaintay is still a small percentage of the total. It just seems
more when you convert inches to centimeters and focus on the tire-to-seat
tube gap. I seriously, honestly believe that our current bikes ride even
better than the older ones--which have always been and still are
great-riding bikes.  Changes are always tough, we will lose people, it's
normal to question why or attribute it to some brain-change or something,
but the changes that you see are evolutionary and in a good direction, I
think.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Ryan Merrill 
wrote:

> I have a feeling the stability offered by the long chainstays on the
> Appaloosa is going to be pretty nice for the manner in which I'm going to
> ride it. The gravel roads I'm going to take it on could use a little bit
> more stability. I don't know if the bike will fit on my Kuat rack
> though...got to find out about that. I suspect not, so it will be something
> I have to remedy.
>
> I could see how carrying around a rather long bike could get to be a
> burden in an urban setting. Luckily, I don't live in an urban setting and
> instead am in the country. We'll see.
>
> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:12:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
>> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that
>> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The
>> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like
>> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are
>> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard
>> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow
>> stairs on a regular basis.
>>
>> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant
>> and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they
>> believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally
>> reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is
>> likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to
>> design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they
>> keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more
>> 'traditional' riv model.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tuesday, 

[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

And of course now for The Big Question:

When?  

Any schedule for delivery of the first batch?  Potential buyers need to 
plan ahead.

dougP

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 8:04:13 AM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
>
> A lot of the answers to most of the questions might be answered in the 
> catalogue coming up in about 3 wks, and I don't want to deflate it before 
> it goes to print (in 2 weeks), so... we might not answer all of the 
> questions here before then or on BLUG-BLAHG. We're all way loose-lipped in 
> person--the stuff just tumbles out of the voice box like mad when it's 
> face-to-face for some reason. Also, some reasons or answers are hard to sum 
> up in a sentence or two without seeming to reflect some kind of emotion 
> that --- well, let me just say the don't always play well in sentences, 
> sorry to be so vague with that, and we're careful about what we say and how 
> we say anything if it can't be ... arghh, having a hard time with it now. 
> It feels like I'm turning it into a puzzle, which isn't my intention. All 
> of the changes -- and there aren't THAT many, trust me -- are for good 
> reasons, including, from my pov, bike improvements. The Atlantis is still 
> Russian green, I can say that.
> Thank you all for your support, enthusiasm, patience, knowledge, opinions, 
> trust, help...
>

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[RBW] Re: SOMA Demi Porteur

[A. Nostuh]

I have one on my cheviot, works great, light weight. Set it and forget it. It's 
aluminum not tubular steel like most racks. So maybe not as heavy duty but 
lighter

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

['mlpessar' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Great pics and ride account Patrick. You have my respect sir. Thanks for 
sharing, Marc.

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 7:21:50 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> In which I ride when I couldn’t have pre-fixed, for a frozen derailure and 
> loss of brakes, but all’s good with fixed! And there’s testing out the new 
> wider writing board (works great cross legged too now!), saddle as backrest 
> exposé, coffee, pipe, and narrowly avoided snow down me back. 
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/well-heres-a-spot-a-snow
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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[RBW] Re: FS Jones Loop SG Handlebar - sold

[lconley]

Sold

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:33:01 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>
> Mounted on the Nitto stem, then realized that it wasn't the version that 
> had the 2.5" rise in it. Nothing else ever mounted on it. Silver 660 mm 
> wide straight gauge version (narrow, slightly heavier). Basically brand 
> new. Ordered the correct bar and selling this one. Asking $60 shipped CONUS 
> - new bar from Jones is $79 + shipping.
>
> Laing 
> Cocoa FL
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[lconley]

I have long arms/torso and short legs so I have Nitto lugged setback seat 
posts and 100+mm stems and dropped bars on several of my Rivs. I love long 
top tubes. I also live in a one story house and don't use mass transit. I 
must admit that the bikes are on the edge of not fitting inside the Honda 
Element without taking off a front wheel. What was that Rick Nelson line - 
"...can't please everyone so might as well please yourself..." or something 
close to that? I don't know if that is a good business model or not, but 
the long Rivs do work for me. I tend to think that my body type is less 
common than the long leg short torso type. There are always used bikes if 
you are patient.

Laing
Cocoa FL


On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 3:12:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:

> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that 
> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The 
> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like 
> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are 
> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard 
> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow 
> stairs on a regular basis. 
>
> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant 
> and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they 
> believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally 
> reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is 
> likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to 
> design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they 
> keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more 
> 'traditional' riv model.
>
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Braxton Colagross]

The blug post points out that the old geometry is still available. But at 
the one-off USA-made price with the corresponding wait time. 

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:12:39 PM UTC-7, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that 
> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The 
> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like 
> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are 
> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard 
> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow 
> stairs on a regular basis. 
>
> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant 
> and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they 
> believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally 
> reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is 
> likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to 
> design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they 
> keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more 
> 'traditional' riv model.
>
> Eric
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:30:15 PM UTC-4, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>>
>> As a former Appaloosa owner, I'm a little disappointed to see the 
>> extra-long chainstays and 6° TT come to the Atlantis. Although the Joe is 
>> billed as an "all-arounder," IME that is quite a subjective term. I found 
>> climbing unwieldy without a sizable front load (especially on dirt), and 
>> with the long top tube, drop bars are not as feasible for some riders using 
>> Riv's suggested sizing (myself included). I would consider the existing 
>> Atlantis geo to be more all-rounder, a balance of traditional stack and 
>> reach numbers with the mid-length chainstays. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:57:24 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder why they decided to extend the chainstays - that Blug picture 
>>> looks like it has Clem/Appaloosa length stays (maybe it's an illusion from 
>>> 26" wheels?). Didn't the Atlantis already have 48cm chainstays? All the 
>>> other changes seem like a good idea to me, but this just seems like turning 
>>> the Atlantis into an Appaloosa.
>>>
>>> I started a separate thread about super long chainstays and taking your 
>>> bike on buses/trains.
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>>
>>>


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[RBW] FS: Rivy Clothes & Sackville

[Coconutbill]

Hello again, Rivendell folk, I am parting ways with a number of clothes, 
and a few items which have some Rivness to them.
Here it goes:

Sackville Multi-sack Grey - This was a Rivelo exclusive. I bought two ,  
only using one of them.  $35 for local pick-up , in Portland, OR 
(selling for how much I purchased for)
$42 shipped.

Wooly Warm , Small Sargeant Sweater (Olive green). This is a super warm, 
100% wool sweater. It is slightly shrunken , but I thought it would be 
perfect for a smaller person, or child. 
$40 shipped

MUSA S brown/blue pants with zippered pant legs. Rear pocket needs 
re-stiching.
$33 shipped

MUSA Grey / Blue  S pants
+   MUSA Green/ Blue S pants which have a hole in the knee.
$20 shipped 

Rockmount Red & White Checkered Western Shirt - size M - with snaps - $18 
shipped 

open to offers on all of these items. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Ryan Merrill]

I have a feeling the stability offered by the long chainstays on the 
Appaloosa is going to be pretty nice for the manner in which I'm going to 
ride it. The gravel roads I'm going to take it on could use a little bit 
more stability. I don't know if the bike will fit on my Kuat rack 
though...got to find out about that. I suspect not, so it will be something 
I have to remedy. 

I could see how carrying around a rather long bike could get to be a burden 
in an urban setting. Luckily, I don't live in an urban setting and instead 
am in the country. We'll see. 

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:12:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:

> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that 
> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The 
> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like 
> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are 
> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard 
> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow 
> stairs on a regular basis. 
>
> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant 
> and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they 
> believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally 
> reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is 
> likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to 
> design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they 
> keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more 
> 'traditional' riv model.
>
> Eric
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:30:15 PM UTC-4, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>>
>> As a former Appaloosa owner, I'm a little disappointed to see the 
>> extra-long chainstays and 6° TT come to the Atlantis. Although the Joe is 
>> billed as an "all-arounder," IME that is quite a subjective term. I found 
>> climbing unwieldy without a sizable front load (especially on dirt), and 
>> with the long top tube, drop bars are not as feasible for some riders using 
>> Riv's suggested sizing (myself included). I would consider the existing 
>> Atlantis geo to be more all-rounder, a balance of traditional stack and 
>> reach numbers with the mid-length chainstays. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:57:24 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder why they decided to extend the chainstays - that Blug picture 
>>> looks like it has Clem/Appaloosa length stays (maybe it's an illusion from 
>>> 26" wheels?). Didn't the Atlantis already have 48cm chainstays? All the 
>>> other changes seem like a good idea to me, but this just seems like turning 
>>> the Atlantis into an Appaloosa.
>>>
>>> I started a separate thread about super long chainstays and taking your 
>>> bike on buses/trains.
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>>
>>>


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Re: [RBW] Loooong dropouts on that 1999 Joe Starck custom fixed gofast

[Patrick Moore]

Well, I have you to thank for it ...!

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 10:39 AM, WETH  wrote:

> Patrick,
> That looks great.  I look forward to photos once built up and your ride
> impressions.
> Love that color!
> Erl
>
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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Eric Karnes]

I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that coincides 
less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The significantly 
longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like arms to 
utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are 
impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard 
for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow 
stairs on a regular basis. 

Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant 
and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they 
believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally 
reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is 
likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to 
design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they 
keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more 
'traditional' riv model.

Eric

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:30:15 PM UTC-4, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> As a former Appaloosa owner, I'm a little disappointed to see the 
> extra-long chainstays and 6° TT come to the Atlantis. Although the Joe is 
> billed as an "all-arounder," IME that is quite a subjective term. I found 
> climbing unwieldy without a sizable front load (especially on dirt), and 
> with the long top tube, drop bars are not as feasible for some riders using 
> Riv's suggested sizing (myself included). I would consider the existing 
> Atlantis geo to be more all-rounder, a balance of traditional stack and 
> reach numbers with the mid-length chainstays. 
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:57:24 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>> I wonder why they decided to extend the chainstays - that Blug picture 
>> looks like it has Clem/Appaloosa length stays (maybe it's an illusion from 
>> 26" wheels?). Didn't the Atlantis already have 48cm chainstays? All the 
>> other changes seem like a good idea to me, but this just seems like turning 
>> the Atlantis into an Appaloosa.
>>
>> I started a separate thread about super long chainstays and taking your 
>> bike on buses/trains.
>>
>> Eamon
>>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Andy Beichler]

What interests me is difference in top tube length. I have looked and 
looked at the Appaloosa (and Clem) but have not pulled the trigger because 
of the top tube length.  I want a bike that I can easily put drop bars on 
and the Atlantis fits the bill for me, there.  Also, I have always wanted 
an Atlantis. I still kick myself for not getting one way back when they 
were about $700 (or was that $900).
   

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[RBW] Re: Bosco Bars

[Carl]

They're named after a chocolate syrup product. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosco_Chocolate_Syrup

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 10:08:36 AM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>
> I wonder why they call them Bosco bars? Who or what is a "Bosco"?
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Bob B]

With the longer cstays and more tt slope, does anyone know what is different 
btwn the new Atlantis and the Appaloosa? Besides some features like pump pegs 
etc... different fork and tubing I suppose?

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[RBW] Re: FS: Medium Mountain Mixte--You choose my adventure again!

[Bill Lindsay]

I like Deaky-P's quick-strike technique.  Get into negotiations 
immediately, because there's always numerous chances to bow out.  Deaky-P 
did indeed bow out, after confirming:

1. It's too small for him.  I have a 75.5cm Saddle Height and I'm at the 
tippy top of the range that would work for this bike.  
2. It's not sufficiently "better" than a 52cm Clem-L to justify replacing 
one of the Clem-L bikes in his family.

So, my 54cm Medium Mountain Mixte (not a real mixte) is not taken.  

Here is a link to a flickr photo of it's current configuration:  
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/37680715212

I'm interested in selling only frame-fork-headset-seatpost for $800 plus 
shipping.  If you are dying for a complete, we could talk, but my current 
plan would be to re-use this build on a pre-sale Atlantis.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 10:30:00 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> PM sent, with questions to follow.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] FS: Medium Mountain Mixte--You choose my adventure again!

[Deacon Patrick]

Bunch ... I’m out, so step on up and get yourself this beaut!

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] FS: Medium Mountain Mixte--You choose my adventure again!

[Deacon Patrick]

PM sent, with questions to follow.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] FS: Medium Mountain Mixte--You choose my adventure again!

[Bill Lindsay]

I bought a Medium Mountain Mixte (not a real mixte), last summer.  I've 
ridden it a fair bit in my huge stable of bikes.  At the time I bought it 
instead of buying a $2400 650B Atlantis.  At that time I asserted that the 
Medium Mountain Mixte (not a real mixte) is the functional equivalent to an 
Atlantis, and I still believe that to be the case.  But now, I can get a 
650B Atlantis for a lot less than $2400.  So, I'm going to offer to put my 
money and trust where my mouth is.  I'll buy in to the MIT Atlantis 
pre-sale if you buy my Rosco Bubbe 650B step through frameset.  I paid $800 
plus CA-Tax for the frame and fork.  The headset and seatpost were extra.  
I will sell the frame/fork/headset/seatpost for $800 plus shipping.  That's 
not much of a discount, but it's a frameset that you can't get otherwise.  
If you are one of those who has stated "Darn! I wish I had grabbed one when 
I had the chance!" or "I'll snap one up if they do another run", now's your 
chance.  If nobody wants it at that price, I'll remain content with it and 
not buy a 650B Atlantis on pre-sale.  Let me know if you are interested.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


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[RBW] Re: WTB- Sackville Saddle Sack Large, Pref Olive

[Bill Lindsay]

Hi Vincent

I have one that I possibly could part with, but Rivendell has them in stock 
at $243.  Are you looking for one as beat up as possible and 
correspondingly as cheap as possible?  Help me understand your target 
objectives so I can figure out if I have what you want.  One big potential 
piece is shipping.  Rivendell would ship it free at $243.  Where's it going?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
> Hello! I'm just putting out a signal to see if anyone out there is wanting 
> to sell their Large Saddlesack?
>
> Anyone? :)
>

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[RBW] Loooong dropouts on that 1999 Joe Starck custom fixed gofast

[WETH]

Patrick,
That looks great.  I look forward to photos once built up and your ride 
impressions.
Love that color!
Erl

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[RBW] Re: FS: MUSA Pants & Knickers

[Coconutbill]

$30 for Brown Musa Pants with zippered legs.
$15 gets two pairs of small velcro musa pants in need of repair.

>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[phil k]

Thanks for chiming in, I can't wait to hear more about it!

I really like the details so far!

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:04:13 AM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
>
> A lot of the answers to most of the questions might be answered in the 
> catalogue coming up in about 3 wks, and I don't want to deflate it before 
> it goes to print (in 2 weeks), so... we might not answer all of the 
> questions here before then or on BLUG-BLAHG. We're all way loose-lipped in 
> person--the stuff just tumbles out of the voice box like mad when it's 
> face-to-face for some reason. Also, some reasons or answers are hard to sum 
> up in a sentence or two without seeming to reflect some kind of emotion 
> that --- well, let me just say the don't always play well in sentences, 
> sorry to be so vague with that, and we're careful about what we say and how 
> we say anything if it can't be ... arghh, having a hard time with it now. 
> It feels like I'm turning it into a puzzle, which isn't my intention. All 
> of the changes -- and there aren't THAT many, trust me -- are for good 
> reasons, including, from my pov, bike improvements. The Atlantis is still 
> Russian green, I can say that.
> Thank you all for your support, enthusiasm, patience, knowledge, opinions, 
> trust, help...
>

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[RBW] Re: Billie Bar Width - New Albatross

[Jonathan]

I went from Chocomoose bars (54cm) to Boscomoose (58cm) and was surprised 
at how much wider they felt. I really like the way the wider bars feel. I 
feel much more in control, and a lot more comfortable too. Those new Billie 
bars look nice.

I remember you had posted about wanting to try a set of Boscos. Did you 
ever find a set?

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 7:08:41 PM UTC-5, Tim O. (Portland, OR) wrote:
>
> News flash: The new Billie bars will be 58cm wide! I emailed Riv to ask 
> and made sure it was okay to share with y'all.
>
> If you haven't heard of them yet, they are a longer sweep, less rise and 
> wider albatross. I kind of think this is a picture of them that they 
> quietly snuck on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf5JwDeAFkR/ 
> anyone know for sure?
>
> I'm stoked and I know there are others who've been wanting a wide 
> albatross bar. I wonder how much different that extra 3cm does. Guess I'll 
> have to buy some to find out!
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
>

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[RBW] WTB- Sackville Saddle Sack Large, Pref Olive

[Vincent Tamer]

Hello! I'm just putting out a signal to see if anyone out there is wanting 
to sell their Large Saddlesack?

Anyone? :)

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant @ Rivendell]

A lot of the answers to most of the questions might be answered in the 
catalogue coming up in about 3 wks, and I don't want to deflate it before 
it goes to print (in 2 weeks), so... we might not answer all of the 
questions here before then or on BLUG-BLAHG. We're all way loose-lipped in 
person--the stuff just tumbles out of the voice box like mad when it's 
face-to-face for some reason. Also, some reasons or answers are hard to sum 
up in a sentence or two without seeming to reflect some kind of emotion 
that --- well, let me just say the don't always play well in sentences, 
sorry to be so vague with that, and we're careful about what we say and how 
we say anything if it can't be ... arghh, having a hard time with it now. 
It feels like I'm turning it into a puzzle, which isn't my intention. All 
of the changes -- and there aren't THAT many, trust me -- are for good 
reasons, including, from my pov, bike improvements. The Atlantis is still 
Russian green, I can say that.
Thank you all for your support, enthusiasm, patience, knowledge, opinions, 
trust, help...

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[RBW] Bosco Bars

[Kainalu V.]

https://youtu.be/lyEFiaUQYGE
Bosco!!
Maybe.
-Kai
BK NY 

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Re: [RBW] Billie Bar Width - New Albatross

[Patrick Moore]

666 mm wide! And here I was the other day thinking that the 42 cm Maes
Parallels on my Matthews were wider than I like, compared to the
just-perfect 38s on my Rivendell roads. And I'm not small, either -- just
bought 2 new Wabi Woolen jerseys in the Large-Tall size.

Different strokes ...

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[RBW] Bosco Bars

[Jim S.]

I wonder why they call them Bosco bars? Who or what is a "Bosco"?

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Leslie]

I've run 2.3 Neomotos on my 650b Bomba, then added fenders with clearance 
to spare, but couldn't have a kickstand on there w/ tires that wide

I've gone down in size (and non-knobbies since I wanted the fenders on 
there).  

At the time I was thinking that the Bomba was not far from an Atlantis, 
but, maybe my clearance really is that much more...

 

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 6:32:24 PM UTC-4, Drw wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure i could get 2.2's and fenders in my 650b atlantis without 
> too much work. not sure about 2.35 though. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Leslie]

One of the details I like is the trout on the top of the downtube decal...  
(that's not always been there on the other Atlanti, has it?)



On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 9:28:51 AM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Nobody has latched onto nor commenced to wring hands over the truly 
> divisive design element: the NEW downtube decal. 
>
> A sharp observer on Instagram noticed that the new downtube decal has boat 
> anchors down the under side of the downtube, which I think is sensational. 
> It ties in with the nautical theme AND thumbs noses at the whiners who say 
> all Rivs are ‘boat anchors’. 
>
> Hopefully the downtube decal simply adds convenience for differentiating 
> Waterford and Toyo bikes from Maxway bikes   
>
> Bill Lindsay 
> El Cerrito Ca. 

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[RBW] Lower price Atlantis!

[Bill Lindsay]

Nobody has latched onto nor commenced to wring hands over the truly divisive 
design element: the NEW downtube decal. 

A sharp observer on Instagram noticed that the new downtube decal has boat 
anchors down the under side of the downtube, which I think is sensational. It 
ties in with the nautical theme AND thumbs noses at the whiners who say all 
Rivs are ‘boat anchors’. 

Hopefully the downtube decal simply adds convenience for differentiating 
Waterford and Toyo bikes from Maxway bikes   

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Ryan Merrill]

Stuart, your comments regarding the ride of the Appaloosa are disconcerting 
since I have one coming to the house today. I hope I get along with it, as 
this will be my first Rivendell with the long chainstays. I never thought 
the Rivs I've owned were bad riding bikes and never twitchy...I do hope the 
long chainstays don't make them handle like barges. 

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 10:30:15 PM UTC-5, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> As a former Appaloosa owner, I'm a little disappointed to see the 
> extra-long chainstays and 6° TT come to the Atlantis. Although the Joe is 
> billed as an "all-arounder," IME that is quite a subjective term. I found 
> climbing unwieldy without a sizable front load (especially on dirt), and 
> with the long top tube, drop bars are not as feasible for some riders using 
> Riv's suggested sizing (myself included). I would consider the existing 
> Atlantis geo to be more all-rounder, a balance of traditional stack and 
> reach numbers with the mid-length chainstays. 
>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] FS: 62cm Hunqapillar complete

[scott minor]

Still looking for a home for this silver/cream Hunqapillar.  Also, can sell 
frame/fork/headset/BB for 1500.  

https://flickr.com/photos/147564748@N06/sets/72157692690766831

thanks, -scott 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Belopsky]

I think what Joe says is what some (including me) forget/do not realize. 
Grant designs his bikes for a certain terrain and it does not make sense 
for all.

As far as the new Atlantis - I don't like it but also will not be buying 
one so does my opinion matter? No.
I'm also not a fan of 6d TT but understand why they're doing it.

I still grumble that Waterford/Gunnar would not build me a horizontal top 
tube custom because they legally (?) couldn't do a frame where the 
standover height had to be PBH-1.5cm at the maximum...

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