[RBW] Re: Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[Mark Schneider]

I think Rivendells in general handle better with a rear load bias. They 
have a high trail front end geometry, at least the older HH's did. Low 
trail bikes with 60-70mm of fork rake only handle well with a front end 
load. It's really a difference between French and English bike geometry 
preference, or Jan Heine vs Grant Petersen if you prefer. That said, I run 
my Homer with light loads on the front and it doesn't feel too bad,(no 
where near 10 lbs.) The combination of a banasax up front with a small or 
medium saddle sack in the rear,  works great for long day rides.

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 8:53:09 AM UTC-7, Jamo. wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a rack for my Hilsen.  It would be light loads, 
> 10lbs max, and I want to run a basket on it.  I figured people here would 
> have advice/opinions on front vs rear loads on the Hilsen, and maybe even a 
> specific rack recommendation.
>

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[RBW] Re: UPDATE Dura-Ace wheels, Dirt Drop bar, Jack Brown tires

[Tristan Cheal]

How many miles on the wheels?
And how big a tyre will they take?
I might want them on my cross-check.

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-7, spru...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Update: The tires and bars have been sold. The Dura-Ace wheels are still 
> available.
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 7:09 AM David Sprunger  > wrote:
>
>> Cross-posted to Bob and Riv lists
>>
>> I’m jumping on the fall cleaning bandwagon and offering a few items that 
>> should interest the list.
>>
>> David Sprunger
>>
>> Fargo, ND
>>
>>  
>>
>> Dura-Ace wheelset. These wheels are a bit out of the ordinary, being 
>> sturdier and ready for wider tires than many other Dura-Ace wheels. 36h on 
>> 700c Dyad rims. Butted Wheelsmith spokes and Newbaum cloth tape. Although 
>> marked 8S, I used these wheels with a 9-speed drivetrain on my Roadeo. 
>> 100/130 OLD and with original skewers. Shiny and smoth. $225 plus 
>> shipping by Bikeflights.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Pair of Rivendell Jack Brown Green tires. This is the model without the 
>> tread belt or beefier sidewalls. About 30 miles of wear. $40/pair includes 
>> U.S. shipping.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Classic Rivendell/Nitto dirt drop bar. Don’t let the tape residue fool 
>> you. These bars have seen limited use. Never wrecked. Sleeve is clean. 
>> RM013. Heat treated. This is the wide model – 52 cm between the flared 
>> tips. Milled for bar end shifters. $35 plus shipping.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Pictures:
>>
>> https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ag4tr1xyXDYDg8hzcIa1MSWVwM1fcw
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[lambbo]

I also would clarify my response - I rode with a large front basket on my 
cheviot for 2 years loading it REALLY full of heavy things (Jannd touring front 
rack) and adding large panniers often, and have done a handful of camping trips 
only loading the front with everything I brought, no rear basket.It was 
great, and I never would have changed it except I just did and now I love 
having the rear basket and nothing up front, it's a little zippier and for big 
loads that I tend to carry it's safer (Pletscher).Front is great IMO for 
anything small, under 10/15lb

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Re: [RBW] FS: Shimano CX50 Cantilever Brakes, Nitto Front Rack Model Martin-pêcheur (cantilever rack), Nitto Long cable hanger

[gabriel luke thompson aspinwall]

Cable hanger sold

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Steve Palincsar]

I thought what happened on a S24O stayed on the S24O...


On 09/11/2018 08:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
If you couched your stoner-queries in the context of an S24O, your Riv 
Content would have been self-evident and unassailable.


Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 1:42:03 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

I just want a cheap high. Surely that is not outside the group's
remit?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:

Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not.



On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:

Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to
talk about what is within the domain of a Rivendell group.
How else is the community able to define and enforce its
rules?

William
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar
> wrote:

Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't
see any reason why it would be.  This list is, after
all, about Rivendell, bicycles and bicycling, not
about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant
himself mentions something in one of the Rivendell
blogs that it falls under the Rivendell aegis.


On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil
it’s about whether or not cannabis oil is on
topic, which clearly it is



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Sackville BagBoy

[John C]

I was at RBW this past Saturday and checked out a Bagboy that was on a demo 
bike. It had a stiffener in it. 

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 9:06:09 AM UTC-7, John Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi, Thanks for the campaign sign recycling suggestions, but I was really 
> wondering if the Bagboy was designed for and came with a stffener like my 
> older Sackville saddle bags. I've never really been able to use a Sackville 
> saddlebag without a rear rack supporting the bottom, probably because I 
> carry 4 or 5 lb u-locks.
>
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: MTB on the Blahg (again)

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

I came up with:

WILSON BOG TUSSLE
WOOL LUNGS IS BEST
WOOL STEIN BULGES
U BIG SWOLLEN TOSS
TOSSING OWL BLUES
GOT WILSONS BLUES
SON GUILTS BOWELS

None of these sound appealing at all. I'll stop now.

Bob E. 
Cranford, NJ

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[sameness]

Or an S420.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:16:46 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> If you couched your stoner-queries in the context of an S24O, your Riv 
> Content would have been self-evident and unassailable.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Bill Lindsay]

If you couched your stoner-queries in the context of an S24O, your Riv 
Content would have been self-evident and unassailable.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 1:42:03 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I just want a cheap high. Surely that is not outside the group's remit?
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>> Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk about what 
>>> is within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else is the community able 
>>> to define and enforce its rules?
>>>
>>> William
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar >>> > wrote:

 Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why 
 it would be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and 
 bicycling, not about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself 
 mentions something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the 
 Rivendell aegis.


 On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
> To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or 
> not cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is
>
> -- 
 Steve Palincsar
 Alexandria, Virginia
 USA

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>>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>

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[RBW] Re: MTB on the Blahg (again)

[Jim M.]

In the spirit of A Homer, et alia, I like Welton S. Bisolugs

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[RBW] FS: Soma San Marcos - Size 54

[RDS]

Soma San Marcos size 54 - Frame, Fork, Headset (FSA).  I am the 2nd owner 
(I think) and the first owner did not ride the bike.  I probably rode it 
less than 20 miles.  Frame is in good shape.  A couple of paint nicks that 
you can see in the pics. $500 + shipping by BikeFlights or ShipBikes.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nimNFoZwJVF861Y2TctQC3xLj08cgzPu?usp=sharing

Contact me off list.  Paypal friends and family for payment.

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[RBW] Re: ISO: The right rear rack

[dougP]

The R-14 is highly adjustable & the later ones are flat (no tombstone).  It 
looks good & has a tail light mounting plate.  A rack a bit bigger than you 
need for the bag is not a bad idea as it lets you strap on something if you 
need more carrying capacity.  Yoga mats, shoes, wet jackets, etc.

dougP

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 2:07:19 PM UTC-7, Eric Myers wrote:
>
> I have a Nigel Smythe Country Bag which I want to provide support for, in 
> some sort of specific ways:
>
>- I want to keep the bag snugged up to the saddle, so the rack needs 
>to adjust to different heights 
>- I don’t want the bag to sit on top of any tombstone/load-stopper, so 
>the rack also needs to adjust back to front. 
>- I want to use the mid seat stay braze-ons, not the ones on the 
>dropouts.  
>
>  
>
> I was originally planning on using a Mark’s Rack, but I’m also considering 
> a Nitto R-14, and now I’m even wondering about the Pletscher Clem.  Has 
> anyone configured it this way?
>
>  
>
> I like the idea of the Mark’s rack, being small and swappable to the front 
> of the bike (I use a Rando bag on my other bike), but it’s out of stock 
> everywhere.  The R-14 is a little big for what I need, but not unreasonably 
> so.  The Pletscher is significantly bigger, but also cheaper and stronger 
> and has more options for carrying stuff.  I don’t carry much in the bag and 
> will mostly keep it attached to the seat and rack, but I’m willing to swap 
> out for a different rack if I ever need to carry more.  The Pletscher could 
> potentially fill both roles by changing the configuration when/if needed.  
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> -Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: ISO: The right rear rack

[Garth]

  It appears Alex's Cycle in Japan has them in stock. It says $112 converted 
and shipping to my area in Ohio, for example, about $22. Of course, they have 
lots of other cool stuff to add to that order ! 

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[RBW] Re: New Breeks and Old Leaves

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You’re right, Eric. These remind me of the cross country knickers I used to 
wear, but I remember them always having flexability/room when bending issues 
too. My family keeps laughing at me as we kneel for the rosary, because I am 
guffawing with delight as I kneel and have room to do so without fretting the 
fabric about to make room lest I chant the mysteries soprano. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Spencer’s Trousers Amazing Adventure Cycling Breeks Initial Impressions

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Photos and a more expanded initial impression and fall colors too, here: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/OKgPECB7vGM

Edgar, they also have lighter weight wool (worsted). Once I see how these (and 
a couple more pair) wear through the winter and spring, I may go for a pair of 
lighter weight wool for summer. The increased breathing is fantastic, but tweet 
is warmer when still or no breeze.

Patrick, the above post addresses all your questions (I think?). Order process 
was easy. My fretting made it harder than it needed to be.

Yeah, Bill. The tweed tandem caught my eye too. Spencer’s only does trousers 
and vests, so I’m not sure how they did the jackets.

Rich, no kidding! I’m eyeing some version of a red vest as a mid-weight option 
before my boiled wool sweater.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Spencer’s Trousers Amazing Adventure Cycling Breeks Initial Impressions

[RichS]

Deac,

Next, you need one of their vests to match your breeks:-) Beautiful 
garments. Thanks for the introduction to Spencers.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 9:20:28 AM UTC-4, Bill Schairer wrote:
>
> I always enjoy reviewing the interesting products you come up with.  I 
> like the shot of the couple on a tandem on their instagram account.
>
> Bill
>

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[RBW] Re: MTB on the Blahg (again)

[Bill Lindsay]

Those are great.  My personal favorite so far is:

USS Bellowing Sot



On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 1:42:04 PM UTC-7, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Lugless Boistown
> Guess will boston
> Boot wins lugless
> Low go subtle sins
> Subtle logo winss
>
> And my favorite, though not likely to be the actual name:
> Lugless town, I sob!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Berthoud fender installation questions

[RichS]

Don't know if there is on line or not but Bicycle Quarterly, Volume 9, No. 
2, Winter 2010 has a highly detailed description by Jan Heine and Peter 
Weigle on mounting metal fenders. Recommended! 

Regards,
Rich in ATL 

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 3:23:12 PM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> When I ran Berthoud's, I did not need a second stay like I do on the VO 
> (alloy) fenders. They are stiffer and don't flop so much. YMMV.
>
> On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-4, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>>
>> I will use Sheldon fender nut. Does the stainless Berthoud fender require 
>> something to brace the front fender nose like Honjos do  or not?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sackville BagBoy

[Jamo.]

Why the bagboy as opposed to the medium?  Simply size difference?

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 12:43:35 PM UTC-4, DarinM wrote:
>
> Probably best to ask Riv, but looking at the product page I find it hard 
> to imagine the shape as pictured without a stiffener.
>
> Darin
>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 9:06:09 AM UTC-7, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Thanks for the campaign sign recycling suggestions, but I was really 
>> wondering if the Bagboy was designed for and came with a stffener like my 
>> older Sackville saddle bags. I've never really been able to use a Sackville 
>> saddlebag without a rear rack supporting the bottom, probably because I 
>> carry 4 or 5 lb u-locks.
>>
>> John
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Shimano CX50 Cantilever Brakes, Nitto Front Rack Model Martin-pêcheur (cantilever rack), Nitto Long cable hanger

[gabriel luke thompson aspinwall]

Rack Sold

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 1:36:45 PM UTC-7, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I'll take the rack, thanks!! 
> joe 
>
> On 9/11/18, gabriel luke thompson aspinwall  > wrote: 
> > Been wanting to try V brakes so ordered some today, so selling my 
> > Cantilevers, and my Cantilever Nitto Rack, Also no longer have a need 
> for 
> > my Nitto Long Cable Hanger. 
> > 
> > All this is on my new Clem that I've rode on about 20 short trips so 
> far. 
> > I think i still have the brake cable and housing that came with as it 
> was 
> > too short for the Clem 
> > Prices are Shipped CONUS 
> > 
> > Brakes: $50 
> > Rack: $35 
> > Cable Hanger: $10 or $5 if you buy the brakes 
> > 
> > or 
> > 
> > Everything: $80 
> > 
> > -- 
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[RBW] Re: New Breeks and Old Leaves

['Eric Myers' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Those look great, and I love the range of movement they accommodate!  I use 
an old pair of LL Bean wool knickers, but they are better for hiking and 
skiing than cycling because of the shorter leg length.

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Garth]

Sorry, this isn't GP's  "mini-me" group !   Ahahahahahaa.   

As stated at the top  this group isn't affiliated with RBW.  It's not 
an extension or outlet for them.  I can see why some people get the 
impression of Rivendell being "cultish". 

Patrick has made a number of OT postings so what ?!  They are all done 
respectfully and earnestly .  I've never met Patrick, but if I ran into him 
without knowing him, or any "stranger" that asks me a question I always 
answer in the way the answer comes in the moment.  If I didn't have an 
answer, I wouldn't have been asked the question in the first place. Life 
has a wonderful of managing Itself perfectly without the "rules and 
regulations of the fool". 

If we want to get into a pissing match of what belongs and does not here 
. clarity won't happen  in fact it will only muddy the waters that 
were perfectly clear all on their own.  

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[RBW] ISO: The right rear rack

['Eric Myers' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have a Nigel Smythe Country Bag which I want to provide support for, in 
some sort of specific ways:

   - I want to keep the bag snugged up to the saddle, so the rack needs to 
   adjust to different heights 
   - I don’t want the bag to sit on top of any tombstone/load-stopper, so 
   the rack also needs to adjust back to front. 
   - I want to use the mid seat stay braze-ons, not the ones on the 
   dropouts.  

 

I was originally planning on using a Mark’s Rack, but I’m also considering 
a Nitto R-14, and now I’m even wondering about the Pletscher Clem.  Has 
anyone configured it this way?

 

I like the idea of the Mark’s rack, being small and swappable to the front 
of the bike (I use a Rando bag on my other bike), but it’s out of stock 
everywhere.  The R-14 is a little big for what I need, but not unreasonably 
so.  The Pletscher is significantly bigger, but also cheaper and stronger 
and has more options for carrying stuff.  I don’t carry much in the bag and 
will mostly keep it attached to the seat and rack, but I’m willing to swap 
out for a different rack if I ever need to carry more.  The Pletscher could 
potentially fill both roles by changing the configuration when/if needed.  
Any thoughts?


-Eric

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

['jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Rivendell branded edibles ... now maybe that's something we could all get 
behind (!)

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 4:49:57 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> sniffing* tubular glue*?  now that's something that's definitely on topic.
>
> On 09/11/2018 04:41 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I just want a cheap high. Surely that is not outside the group's remit?
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>> Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk about what 
>>> is within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else is the community able 
>>> to define and enforce its rules?
>>>
>>> William
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar >>> > wrote:

 Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why 
 it would be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and 
 bicycling, not about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself 
 mentions something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the 
 Rivendell aegis.


 On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
> To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or 
> not cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is
>
> -- 
 Steve Palincsar
 Alexandria, Virginia
 USA

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>>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
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>
>
>
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> USA
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[RBW] New Breeks and Old Leaves

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

In which leaves turn early, and tweed breeks arrive and I give initial 
impressions.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/new-breeks-and-old-leaves/

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Steve Palincsar]

sniffing*/tubular glue/*?  now that's something that's definitely on topic.


On 09/11/2018 04:41 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

I just want a cheap high. Surely that is not outside the group's remit?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:


Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not.



On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:

Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk
about what is within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else
is the community able to define and enforce its rules?

William
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar
mailto:palin...@his.com>> wrote:

Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see
any reason why it would be.  This list is, after all,
about Rivendell, bicycles and bicycling, not about pain
relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself mentions
something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls
under the Rivendell aegis.


On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s
about whether or not cannabis oil is on topic, which
clearly it is

-- 
Steve Palincsar

Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Steve Palincsar

Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Ben Miller]

Wow, I'm a little struck by that. At best it sounds autocratic to say we can 
only talk about OT things if Grant brings it up first. At worst, it sounds 
cultish. 

It seems like a better policy to either just keep it about Rivendell products 
only *or* allow any tangentially related off-topic discussion as long as it 
clearly labeled as such. (Which it was)


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[RBW] Bar reach and rise specs

[Chad]

Hey fellow Kansan,

I put together the comparison specs that I could find from the various RBW 
sources:

Bosco Nitto B353 (cromo) or B353AAF (HT alum)
4" or 100mm rise
Between 9" and 10" reach from center of stem
6.5" grip area before the dive
10-deg outsweep
52, 58 HT alum, 55 cromo
3 usable hand positions: grip, ahead of lever, flats
Recommend using 11-12cm stem
Not recommended to cut ends off of alum version if you are going to use bar 
ends because inner diameter varies??

Bosco Bullmoose
54 or 58 cromo tig welded with fillet braze
12-cm built in triagulated-stem
Angles down 7-deg (non-adjustable)
190 built in stem
Can cut off part of grip and still use bar ends

Choco "norm" Nitto B357AAF
14 mm or 25mm (1")? rise or drop (not sure which measurement is accurate?)
little over 8" reach from center of stem
8.5" grip area
10-deg outsweep
53.5-54 cm wide HT 2014 alum weighs .75 lbs
Recommend using 10 or 11 cm stem

Choco-Moose
25mm or 1" drop?
1.18" longer grip area than Choco-Norm
12cm extension built in triangulated stem
190mm built in quill
54cm wide cromo weighs 2.25lbs


Some of this info is inconsistent, so it's probably best to call RBW to verify. 
I put together the specs on the other bars if you  need them. Hope this helps 
you get acclumated to that new Clem :-)

Chad




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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Patrick Moore]

I just want a cheap high. Surely that is not outside the group's remit?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not.
>
>
>
> On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:
>
>> Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk about what is
>> within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else is the community able to
>> define and enforce its rules?
>>
>> William
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>>
>>> Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why
>>> it would be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and
>>> bicycling, not about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself
>>> mentions something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the
>>> Rivendell aegis.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
 To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or
 not cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is

 --
>>> Steve Palincsar
>>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>> USA
>>>
>>> --
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>>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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**
**
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[RBW] Re: MTB on the Blahg (again)

[Edwin W]

Lugless Boistown
Guess will boston
Boot wins lugless
Low go subtle sins
Subtle logo winss

And my favorite, though not likely to be the actual name:
Lugless town, I sob!

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Steve Palincsar]

Certainly, the question is in scope.  It's the oil that's not.


On 09/11/2018 04:10 PM, William Henderson wrote:

Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk about what is 
within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else is the community able to 
define and enforce its rules?

William
Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why it would 
be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and bicycling, not 
about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself mentions something in 
one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the Rivendell aegis.



On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or not 
cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is


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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] FS: Shimano CX50 Cantilever Brakes, Nitto Front Rack Model Martin-pêcheur (cantilever rack), Nitto Long cable hanger

[Joe Bunik]

I'll take the rack, thanks!!
joe

On 9/11/18, gabriel luke thompson aspinwall  wrote:
> Been wanting to try V brakes so ordered some today, so selling my
> Cantilevers, and my Cantilever Nitto Rack, Also no longer have a need for
> my Nitto Long Cable Hanger.
>
> All this is on my new Clem that I've rode on about 20 short trips so far.
> I think i still have the brake cable and housing that came with as it was
> too short for the Clem
> Prices are Shipped CONUS
>
> Brakes: $50
> Rack: $35
> Cable Hanger: $10 or $5 if you buy the brakes
>
> or
>
> Everything: $80
>
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[RBW] FS: Shimano CX50 Cantilever Brakes, Nitto Front Rack Model Martin-pêcheur (cantilever rack), Nitto Long cable hanger

[gabriel luke thompson aspinwall]

Been wanting to try V brakes so ordered some today, so selling my 
Cantilevers, and my Cantilever Nitto Rack, Also no longer have a need for 
my Nitto Long Cable Hanger.

All this is on my new Clem that I've rode on about 20 short trips so far.
I think i still have the brake cable and housing that came with as it was 
too short for the Clem
Prices are Shipped CONUS

Brakes: $50
Rack: $35
Cable Hanger: $10 or $5 if you buy the brakes

or

Everything: $80

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[William Henderson]

Surely it is within the domain of a Rivendell group to talk about what is 
within the domain of a Rivendell group. How else is the community able to 
define and enforce its rules?

William
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why it 
> would be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and bicycling, 
> not about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself mentions 
> something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the Rivendell 
> aegis.
> 
> 
>> On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:
>> To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or not 
>> cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
> 
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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Steve Palincsar]

Why?  Was it mentioned in a Blagh?  If not, I can't see any reason why 
it would be.  This list is, after all, about Rivendell, bicycles and 
bicycling, not about pain relief remedies.  It's only when Grant himself 
mentions something in one of the Rivendell blogs that it falls under the 
Rivendell aegis.



On 09/11/2018 02:18 PM, William! wrote:

To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or not 
cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] FS: 52-cm Clem-L

[Alan H]

Hi All,

I need to sell my wife's Clem-L. Size 52 in the greenish-bluish-tealish 
color from a couple of years back. It has the curved seat stays. 

Bought it for her because I thought she'd appreciate the greater stability 
associated with the long wheelbase. I was wrong, she doesn't like the 
overall largeness of the frame. On the other hand she loves my 45cm Clem-H. 
Go figure.

The bike has less than 100 miles on it. Stock build except for Ergon GC1 
grips, a Greenfield kickstand with boot, and no saddle (the stock saddle 
was truly horrific and my wife wants to keep the Brooks C17S that's on 
there now). I'm asking $900. Send me a message if you're interested.

I'm located in Orange County, CA and I would prefer a local sale but I'd be 
willing to arrange shipping if necessary. 

Thanks for reading,

Alan

p.s. - I'll try to post some pics tonight. 

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Patrick Moore]

Chris: Can you send me your email address so that I can email you offlist?
I have a question about your friend.

Thanks, Patrick

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 5:06 AM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> The one person I know who uses CBD swears by it.  She has severe PTSD with
> some depression and she says she has gotten tremendous relief, especially
> in helping her sleep but also in reducing her anxiety.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:56:24 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> Unless it's been Grant-fathered in, it's OT, as would be any other
>> medication or herbal supplement.
>>
>>
>> On 09/10/2018 11:05 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>> > I have some questions. If anyone has used it therapeutically, I'd be
>> > grateful to hear from him or her.
>> >
>> > For some reason, I "feel" that cannabis oil, or perhaps cannabis
>> > generally, is not too unrivendellian ...?
>> >
>> > Patrick Moore, who hasn't had a toke since 1983, and that one and all
>> > earlier ones were outside the jurisdiction.
>>
>> --
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
>> --
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>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
**
**
*Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*

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[RBW] Re: Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[Michael Hechmer]

Here's another data point.  With both my Saluki (which was the forerunner 
of the AHH) and Rambouliet I use large front bags - either Acorn or 
Bertoud.  I don't overload it - tools, glasses, wallet, phone, a little 
food, rain jacket,  about 2 lbs of stuff.  If I'm going to carry more than 
that I add a saddle bag, most often on the Saluki.  I have both the 
Carradice Barley and Long Flap and attach them with Carradices' excellent 
QR setup.  I rarely use the long flap because the Barley can carry lots of 
stuff, including a wool jacket strapped to the outside.  Neither bag 
creates any side to side sway at all.  I do experience some back and forth 
sway when I stand up.  Although I also own front and rear panniers I rarely 
use them because I much prefer keeping my gear above the fenders and out of 
the wet & dirt.

OTH, my wife is happy with a small rear pannier on her Betty Foy, but then 
she almost never, ever goes riding if it looks like rain.

Michael

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 11:53:09 AM UTC-4, Jamo. wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a rack for my Hilsen.  It would be light loads, 
> 10lbs max, and I want to run a basket on it.  I figured people here would 
> have advice/opinions on front vs rear loads on the Hilsen, and maybe even a 
> specific rack recommendation.
>

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[William!]

To be clear this topic isn’t about cannabis oil it’s about whether or not 
cannabis oil is on topic, which clearly it is

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[RBW] Re: Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[Shoji Takahashi]

I ride my AHH for commuting and toodlin' with my kids great country 
bike. 

It's had many configurations, but the current one has been in place for the 
past few years, so it works for me:
Front: Nitto Mark's Rack+Wald Basket+Shopsack
Back: Nitto R14+Medium Saddlesack

Notably, this is with Albatross bars for upright-ish riding. Handlebars 
impact how [front] loads feel. I do experience wheel flop at very low 
speeds or when I'm leaning the bike. But after at normal or high speeds, 
it's great! 

In the past, when I've taken off racks+fenders in the spring to clean a 
bike, I marvel at how light an unladen bike feels, and how nicely it rides. 
Then I add back all the stuff.

Front baskets are nice for all the reasons people say they're good for. If 
I had to choose one carrier (basket or bag) for my AHH, I'd take the Medium 
Saddlesack. Takes light loads, heavy loads, small vol, big volume. Nice 
organization pockets (but not excess), out of the way, little/no effect on 
bike handling... 

Good luck!
shoji





On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 12:27:24 PM UTC-4, Ryan M. wrote:
>
> I use a Saddlesack banana sack up front on my appaloosa and a medium 
> saddlesack on the rear, which gets all the heavy stuff. I just got some 
> panniers for this bike but haven't had a chance to use them. bagging and 
> racking a bike seems like one of those things that is never set 100% for 
> me, and I'm always changing. 
>
> I've never really been a fan of front loading a bike, but I think a person 
> can get used to anything when riding. Loading a bike down affects the way 
> it rides and sometimes it's negative and sometimes it is positivereally 
> depends on the person. I did use a wald basket on my Jamis Aurora when 
> living in a city and found it worked very well, and was super convenient 
> for that kind of commuting. I just tossed my backpack into it, pulled the 
> net over, and rode in happy bliss. 
>
> If I were going to put a rack and a basket on a Hilsen I would probably 
> use the Mark's rack and not overload it or a Nitto front rack. I think the 
> Nitto front rack that can take panniers is really great looking on a bike 
> when not loaded down too, so that does factor into my thought process. My 
> appaloosa can easily take a Nitto R14 rack on the front because it has 
> those bolts on top of the fork crown...that would be the method I would 
> personally choose on my bike. 
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 10:53:09 AM UTC-5, Jamo. wrote:
>
>> I am in the market for a rack for my Hilsen.  It would be light loads, 
>> 10lbs max, and I want to run a basket on it.  I figured people here would 
>> have advice/opinions on front vs rear loads on the Hilsen, and maybe even a 
>> specific rack recommendation.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sackville BagBoy

[DarinM]

Probably best to ask Riv, but looking at the product page I find it hard to 
imagine the shape as pictured without a stiffener.

Darin

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 9:06:09 AM UTC-7, John Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi, Thanks for the campaign sign recycling suggestions, but I was really 
> wondering if the Bagboy was designed for and came with a stffener like my 
> older Sackville saddle bags. I've never really been able to use a Sackville 
> saddlebag without a rear rack supporting the bottom, probably because I 
> carry 4 or 5 lb u-locks.
>
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: FS-Quickbeam 60 cm, multi geared, $1350

[Philip Williamson]

Oh! One of the reasons the list seems to be awash in Quickbeams is that 
you've got three separate threads for yours!
There's still a Simpleone, and an orange QB in the mix lately, I think. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 4:22:29 AM UTC-7, alan lavine wrote:
>
> Dave,
> In a separate thread after the original for sale post, titled "quickbeam 
> FS fotos, you will find the pics. It's dated September 4thif you can't 
> find it I'll be happy to send them to you.
> Alan NYC 

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Re: [RBW] Re: PRICE REDUCTION 60 cm Quickbeam

[Philip Williamson]

It's pretty rare that I change gears. I did it more when the Quickbeam was 
my only road bike, and I'd go out along the creekside roads, then climb 
over the ridges. 
Santa Rosa out to Sweetwater Springs, and down into Guerneville, for 
instance. shows the climb, not my route: 
https://www.mapmyride.com/us/guerneville-ca/sweetwater-springs-rd-guerneville-loop-route-126200949
 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:05:19 AM UTC-7, alan lavine wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. I found that I changed the gears only once in the 
> time that I owned it, and not likely to do it again. Just lazy. I have 
> another fixed gear I use around town. 
> Alan 
>
> Sent from my iPhone 
>
> > On Sep 10, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Philip Williamson  > wrote: 
> > 
> > I think it’s a reasonable price, which may require the interest of a 
> reasonable person. Seriously, that does seem to be the ballpark Quickbeams 
> play in. Much less and people around here start speculating “what’s wrong 
> with it?” 
> > 
> > I don’t know if you cross posted to the BOB list, but I think it’s a 
> bigger list, and more skewed toward that vintage of Rivendell. $1300 
> sales/purchases can take some time, especially for a ‘niche’ bike. Plus 
> there are a couple other QBs or Simpleones on the market now, creating the 
> perception that there’s no rush to buy. 
> > 
> > My Quickbeam is set up for commuting, but in the past I used it for 
> 25-40 mi road rides, Oregon logging roads, and... commuting. It has a 
> silver Paul single-sided silver rear wheel, a SON klassik front, and a 
> matching Paul front wheel I’ve never actually used; surly dingle 17/21 cog 
> and Dura-Ace square taper cranks with 39/44 rings. CX50 brakes, Ultegra 
> gray levers, Nitto WTB dirt drops, Salsa steel stem painted to match the 
> bike. 52mm Zeppein fenders also painted to match the bike, 38mm Vittoria 
> Hypers. VP-001 pedals. Brooks all weather saddle. Original seatpost and 
> headset. I’d have to pull the BB, but I assume Shimano. You know - the 
> usual stuff! 
> > 
> > Philip 
> > Santa Rosa, CA 
> > 
> > -- 
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[RBW] Re: Not so permanent Basket + Rack

[Ash]

Excellent solution!  A very 'accessible' one!


On Monday, 10 September 2018 14:52:12 UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Vincent, 
>
> I've avoided a permanent basket mounting with a John's Irish strap.  
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/16159037984/in/dateposted-public/ 
>  
> This is the way I used to strap it to the front rack.  Now I attach it the 
> same way but cross the strap underneath between the basket and fender.  It 
> seems to hold it a little more snug since all the forces are pulling in on 
> the rack.  I'd like to work out a quick release attachment like Clayton 
> worked out but this has been working well enough for my needs and it's easy 
> enough to put on and take off.
>
> Hope that helps.
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 10:47:46 PM UTC-7, Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas for a detachable wald setup? I love baskets in the 
>> practical sense but I think my favorite Riv Bike setup is med Saddle sack 
>> in back and a track sack up front. It has a classy feel. 
>>
>> Do you think some kind of strap, either Irish or Voile/ski strap, would 
>> make a good way of securing a basket for light and even med loads? This way 
>> it can be removed or installed easily. I’m gonna try it this weekend but 
>> I’m curious if any one else has. 
>>
>> I will certainly be careful in light of all this nitto basket rack hubbub
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[Ryan M.]

I use a Saddlesack banana sack up front on my appaloosa and a medium 
saddlesack on the rear, which gets all the heavy stuff. I just got some 
panniers for this bike but haven't had a chance to use them. bagging and 
racking a bike seems like one of those things that is never set 100% for 
me, and I'm always changing. 

I've never really been a fan of front loading a bike, but I think a person 
can get used to anything when riding. Loading a bike down affects the way 
it rides and sometimes it's negative and sometimes it is positivereally 
depends on the person. I did use a wald basket on my Jamis Aurora when 
living in a city and found it worked very well, and was super convenient 
for that kind of commuting. I just tossed my backpack into it, pulled the 
net over, and rode in happy bliss. 

If I were going to put a rack and a basket on a Hilsen I would probably use 
the Mark's rack and not overload it or a Nitto front rack. I think the 
Nitto front rack that can take panniers is really great looking on a bike 
when not loaded down too, so that does factor into my thought process. My 
appaloosa can easily take a Nitto R14 rack on the front because it has 
those bolts on top of the fork crown...that would be the method I would 
personally choose on my bike. 



On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 10:53:09 AM UTC-5, Jamo. wrote:

> I am in the market for a rack for my Hilsen.  It would be light loads, 
> 10lbs max, and I want to run a basket on it.  I figured people here would 
> have advice/opinions on front vs rear loads on the Hilsen, and maybe even a 
> specific rack recommendation.
>

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[RBW] Re: Sackville BagBoy

[John Phillips]

Hi, Thanks for the campaign sign recycling suggestions, but I was really 
wondering if the Bagboy was designed for and came with a stffener like my 
older Sackville saddle bags. I've never really been able to use a Sackville 
saddlebag without a rear rack supporting the bottom, probably because I 
carry 4 or 5 lb u-locks.

John

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[RBW] Re: Front vs. rear loads for AHH

[John Phillips]

  I think one of the reasons Riv staff really like using a front basket is 
that it balances a bike such that it makes carrying a bike easier when it 
comes to going up & down stairs. Some of the Riv staff navigate flights of 
stairs on their commutes on Bay Area BART trains and maybe in their 
apartment buildings. This is another reason they appreciate using left-hand 
down tube bar end shifters to keep their eyeballs safe.

   I using a front basket for loads made carrying my bike up and down 
stairs much easier compared to using a rear load. For riding, I prefer my 
load in a saddlebag, but my Mark's rack is perfect for mounting my dynamo 
light and I have my front fender bolted to it as well.

John

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[RBW] Re: FS: levers + Nitto bars; WTB: brakes + dyno wheel + lights

[Tully Lanter]

Brakes are taken care of.

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 10:10:58 PM UTC-7, Tully Lanter wrote:
>
> A few things to unload and others to pick up. First, for sale:
>
> - Nitto Noodle bars, 46cm. Came with my Quickbeam, and they're nice, but 
> not upright enough. $35 + shipping. 
> - Nitto Albastache bars. Recently purchased used, also nice, but still not 
> upright enough. $40 + shipping. 
> - Cane Creek(?) aero brake levers with black hoods. Much older but work 
> well and feel good. Just switched to inverse levers. $15 + shipping. 
>
> Will update with photos next chance I get. Would guess at most $15 to ship 
> the bars in the lower 48 and $5 for the levers. 
>
>
> Meanwhile, I'd love to pick up:
>
> - Cantilever brakes, preferably a pair, but I only urgently need one for 
> the rear. 
> - A front wheel with a 700c, QR, 6V3W dynamo hub and ample braking surface 
> left. Compatible front and rear lights are definitely of interest, too! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Patrick Moore]

Good thing that you are not a moderator of this group.

Patrick Moore
iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2018, at 5:06 AM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> The one person I know who uses CBD swears by it.  She has severe PTSD with 
> some depression and she says she has gotten tremendous relief, especially in 
> helping her sleep but also in reducing her anxiety.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:56:24 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>> Unless it's been Grant-fathered in, it's OT, as would be any other 
>> medication or herbal supplement. 
>> 
>> 
>> On 09/10/2018 11:05 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: 
>> > I have some questions. If anyone has used it therapeutically, I'd be 
>> > grateful to hear from him or her. 
>> > 
>> > For some reason, I "feel" that cannabis oil, or perhaps cannabis 
>> > generally, is not too unrivendellian ...? 
>> > 
>> > Patrick Moore, who hasn't had a toke since 1983, and that one and all 
>> > earlier ones were outside the jurisdiction. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Steve Palincsar 
>> Alexandria, Virginia 
>> USA 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Spencer’s Trousers Amazing Adventure Cycling Breeks Initial Impressions

[Bill Schairer]

I always enjoy reviewing the interesting products you come up with.  I like the 
shot of the couple on a tandem on their instagram account.

Bill

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Re: [RBW] Re: PRICE REDUCTION 60 cm Quickbeam

[Alan LaVine]

Thanks for the info. I found that I changed the gears only once in the time 
that I owned it, and not likely to do it again. Just lazy. I have another fixed 
gear I use around town.
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
> 
> I think it’s a reasonable price, which may require the interest of a 
> reasonable person. Seriously, that does seem to be the ballpark Quickbeams 
> play in. Much less and people around here start speculating “what’s wrong 
> with it?”
> 
> I don’t know if you cross posted to the BOB list, but I think it’s a bigger 
> list, and more skewed toward that vintage of Rivendell. $1300 sales/purchases 
> can take some time, especially for a ‘niche’ bike. Plus there are a couple 
> other QBs or Simpleones on the market now, creating the perception that 
> there’s no rush to buy. 
> 
> My Quickbeam is set up for commuting, but in the past I used it for 25-40 mi 
> road rides, Oregon logging roads, and... commuting. It has a silver Paul 
> single-sided silver rear wheel, a SON klassik front, and a matching Paul 
> front wheel I’ve never actually used; surly dingle 17/21 cog and Dura-Ace 
> square taper cranks with 39/44 rings. CX50 brakes, Ultegra gray levers, Nitto 
> WTB dirt drops, Salsa steel stem painted to match the bike. 52mm Zeppein 
> fenders also painted to match the bike, 38mm Vittoria Hypers. VP-001 pedals. 
> Brooks all weather saddle. Original seatpost and headset. I’d have to pull 
> the BB, but I assume Shimano. You know - the usual stuff! 
> 
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA 
> 
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[RBW] Re: FS-Quickbeam 60 cm, multi geared, $1350

[alan lavine]

Dave,
In a separate thread after the original for sale post, titled "quickbeam FS 
fotos, you will find the pics. It's dated September 4thif you can't find it 
I'll be happy to send them to you.
Alan NYC 

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The one person I know who uses CBD swears by it.  She has severe PTSD with 
some depression and she says she has gotten tremendous relief, especially 
in helping her sleep but also in reducing her anxiety.



On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:56:24 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Unless it's been Grant-fathered in, it's OT, as would be any other 
> medication or herbal supplement. 
>
>
> On 09/10/2018 11:05 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: 
> > I have some questions. If anyone has used it therapeutically, I'd be 
> > grateful to hear from him or her. 
> > 
> > For some reason, I "feel" that cannabis oil, or perhaps cannabis 
> > generally, is not too unrivendellian ...? 
> > 
> > Patrick Moore, who hasn't had a toke since 1983, and that one and all 
> > earlier ones were outside the jurisdiction. 
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar 
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Steve Palincsar]

Unless it's been Grant-fathered in, it's OT, as would be any other 
medication or herbal supplement.



On 09/10/2018 11:05 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
I have some questions. If anyone has used it therapeutically, I'd be 
grateful to hear from him or her.


For some reason, I "feel" that cannabis oil, or perhaps cannabis 
generally, is not too unrivendellian ...?


Patrick Moore, who hasn't had a toke since 1983, and that one and all 
earlier ones were outside the jurisdiction.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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