Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Joe Bernard]

I prefer threadless 'cause the adjusting I actually do is headset and bar 
swaps. To me the only advantage (besides looks) of quill is one I don't use: 
raising/lowering. Once I have a quill set I don't mess with it because I don't 
like marks on the stem. I'd rather just go threadless. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Patrick Moore]

Of course it can't look anything like a quilled Pearl, but it might be cold
forged, be designed for unobtrusive steerer clamp bolts, have a similar bar
clamp, and have the same finish, no?

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 10:50 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> I dont get this.
> If it is a pop top stem for an aheadset steerer then it cannot look
> anything like a tech or pearl.
> Nitto already makes pop tops in silver so take your pick.
>
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[RBW] Re: Another take on beausage

[Bill Lindsay]

Michael, aka Lum Gim Fong, asked:  "What kinda (sic) seatpost is that?" 
without specifying to whom his question was directed.  The last time I 
assumed he was asking me a question when posting on a thread of mine, 
Michael, aka Lum Gim Fong told me I was confused and he wasn't even 
responding to me. So, I'd like to avoid that mistake, but just in case the 
question was in fact directed at me: the seatpost on my new-to-me Ebisu, 
pictured in the original post of this thread, is a Shimano Ultegra 
(SP-6600).

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 9:47:33 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> What kinda seatpost is that?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Lum Gim Fong]

I dont get this.
If it is a pop top stem for an aheadset steerer then it cannot look anything 
like a tech or pearl.
Nitto already makes pop tops in silver so take your pick.

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[RBW] Re: Another take on beausage

[Lum Gim Fong]

What kinda seatpost is that?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Lum Gim Fong]

9+10 were autoshifty for me in friction.
7+8 are great!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Patrick Moore]

GE: what shifters did you use for the 11? One day I'll try 11, but I know
modern BES pull much less cable per unit of angular movement of lever than
modern ones, eg the Silvers. I can sweep all 10 cogs with less than 90* of
the SunTour lever, and the leftside lever moves about 30* to shift from
small to big ring. (Well, perhaps 35*.) I suppose Silvers (and stock
cassettes with aligned ramps) would shift more precisely, but I rather like
the "quick" feel of the Barcons.



On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 3:32 PM G.E.  wrote:

> I had a bar-end, 11-speed, friction shifting set up for a time and it
> wasn't bad. I ended up not keeping the bike (not because of the shifting,
> but due to overlap with other bikes), but I'd do it again on a bike, if it
> made sense for the set up Though, I frankly think the 2x10 was just as
> good, so not sure that extra really did much for me. But, I also think my
> 3x9 works well too! :)
>
> On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 11:23:27 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of 'many-cogs," does anyone shift 11 in friction? 12? How do you
>> find it?
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who finds shifting 10 with Bar Cons quite easy.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fall bosque ride

[Patrick Moore]

Jack: I don't think that the lessening of weight on hands is the result
only of torso stretching and compression; my impression is that, as you
bend over more (up to a point, of course, and also of course if your hips
are right wrt the bb, your torso muscles -- would be interesting to
identify which -- naturally take up the weight. Bending over just now with
knees bent, I sense, or think I sense, a tightening in muscles on the front
and back of the torso, particularly those of lower back and belly. At any
rate, I was surprised at how much difference a mere centimeter more reach
made in the overall feel of the bike -- I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining
it -- and in particular to the feel of my hands on the bar. I certainly
noticed a bit more strain on my neck than before, but that's acceptable, at
least for my sort of riding, and it goes away with use, since again, the
feel largely repeats what I feel on my road bikes.

I love our local bosque and acequia system. It's all the more pleasant
given the arid, high-desert surroundings -- the cottonwood and thicket belt
along the river extends from 1/2 to a couple of miles on either side,
depending on the local extent of the irrigation ditch system, which varies
from point to point. Believe me, on an oven-dry afternoon, riding in the
shade is wonderful! But the bosque also has a wonderful fall beauty; we
don't get brilliant reds, but we do get bright golds and yellows. Paul
Horgan's The Great River is the classic history of riverine settlement from
ancient times through the Spanish era to modern times (well, published in
1954, IIRC).

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:33 PM jack loudon  wrote:

> Thanks for the photos and comments.  Two things:
>
> First, Bosque is a new word for me.  Thought you meant Basque until I
> Wiki'd it. Thanks for the introduction.
>
> Second, regarding your comment: "And I noticed again that being bent over
> very often, and in this instance, *removes* weight from your
> hands/arms/shoulders: my hands felt *lighter* on the bar."   I remember
> feeling this as well, and thought it was because when bent over far enough,
> the torso reaches its elastic limits, with the back stretched and the
> stomach compressed to offset the pull of gravity, and therefore doesn't
> require muscles to maintain a bent-over position.  If this is correct,
> supple people would have to bend over farther than stiff people, before
> this effect is felt.
>
> Jack
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 2:44:44 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Nice 18-mile dirt trail ride just now; perfect fall weather. Each season
>> has its own beauty, but one element of each season's beauty is the quality
>> of the light; I daresay the differences are more noticeable at 5K+ feet.
>>
>> The new (1 cm longer, 10 instead of 9) stem felt very good. A wee, tiny
>> bit of a stretch to the hoods (shortish Shimano aero hoods) but that's
>> fine, since the benefit is principally a less cramped feel on the long
>> ramps (Maes Parallel bar) -- long even tho' levers are attached rather high
>> on the curve.
>>
>> And I noticed again that being bent over very often, and in this
>> instance, *removes* weight from your hands/arms/shoulders: my hands felt
>> *lighter* on the bar. (This requires that your saddle be sufficiently
>> behind the bb, though.) A bit more exercise for my neck, but overall more
>> comfortable.
>>
>> Interesting: the Matthews feels more like my 2 Riv Roads now, tho' those
>> have 8 cm stems (albeit Nittos) 3 or 4 cm below saddle, while the Matthews
>> has a bar 1/4" below saddle and a 10 cm stem; it also has a bar 4 cm wider:
>> 42 versus 38, so there are different ways to skin this particular cat.
>>
>> The City has installed little jetties or decks from where to view the
>> river. The viewpoint is 1/2 mile south of Central Boulevard, the old Rt 66
>> about 5-6 miles south of my house as crows fly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> iPhone
>>
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>> *
>> ***
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>>
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[RBW] Re: Fall bosque ride

[jack loudon]

Thanks for the photos and comments.  Two things:

First, Bosque is a new word for me.  Thought you meant Basque until I 
Wiki'd it. Thanks for the introduction.

Second, regarding your comment: "And I noticed again that being bent over 
very often, and in this instance, *removes* weight from your 
hands/arms/shoulders: my hands felt *lighter* on the bar."   I remember 
feeling this as well, and thought it was because when bent over far enough, 
the torso reaches its elastic limits, with the back stretched and the 
stomach compressed to offset the pull of gravity, and therefore doesn't 
require muscles to maintain a bent-over position.  If this is correct, 
supple people would have to bend over farther than stiff people, before 
this effect is felt.

Jack

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 2:44:44 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Nice 18-mile dirt trail ride just now; perfect fall weather. Each season 
> has its own beauty, but one element of each season's beauty is the quality 
> of the light; I daresay the differences are more noticeable at 5K+ feet.
>
> The new (1 cm longer, 10 instead of 9) stem felt very good. A wee, tiny 
> bit of a stretch to the hoods (shortish Shimano aero hoods) but that's 
> fine, since the benefit is principally a less cramped feel on the long 
> ramps (Maes Parallel bar) -- long even tho' levers are attached rather high 
> on the curve. 
>
> And I noticed again that being bent over very often, and in this instance, 
> *removes* weight from your hands/arms/shoulders: my hands felt *lighter* on 
> the bar. (This requires that your saddle be sufficiently behind the bb, 
> though.) A bit more exercise for my neck, but overall more comfortable.
>
> Interesting: the Matthews feels more like my 2 Riv Roads now, tho' those 
> have 8 cm stems (albeit Nittos) 3 or 4 cm below saddle, while the Matthews 
> has a bar 1/4" below saddle and a 10 cm stem; it also has a bar 4 cm wider: 
> 42 versus 38, so there are different ways to skin this particular cat.
>
> The City has installed little jetties or decks from where to view the 
> river. The viewpoint is 1/2 mile south of Central Boulevard, the old Rt 66 
> about 5-6 miles south of my house as crows fly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Moore
> iPhone
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>

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[RBW] FS: 60cm blue Rambouillet, nearly complete

[Philip Williamson]

More pictures taken in open shade might make the bike easier to really 
appreciate. The strong shadows and conflicting lines are also confusing to the 
eye. I have the same problem in my yard with dappled light from the trees being 
extremely pleasant in real life, but make for baffling images. 

You can often find “open shade” on the north side of a building. If another 
building is reflecting light back into that shade, that’s the best. More light, 
and it’s prettier.

Good luck with the sale!
Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] Basket rack

[Justin, Oakland]

I would buy 3 sets right out the gate depending on price. 

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[RBW] Re: Carradice style saddlebag advice for 51cm Roadini?

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Ash! It doesn't beat a bag sitting low on a rack, but I popped it on my 
Seven to go pick up a package today, easy peasy. I like it! 

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[RBW] Basket rack

[Bill Lindsay]

Good call. That would be an amazing Marks Rack upgrade. 

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Carradice style saddlebag advice for 51cm Roadini?

[Ash]

Joe,  that's a sweet setup!  Quite practical.  Thanks for sharing the 
picture.





On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 14:18:12 UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Here's another approach, it's a Carradice rack called Classic. It sits up 
> kinda high so you gotta figure out how you're getting your leg over, but I 
> adapted to it pretty quickly. It pops on and off quickly which I really 
> like, the bag and rack stay together. 
>
> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 10:37:49 AM UTC-8, Daniel D. wrote: 
> > thanks for the info, looks like a nice set up 
> > 
> > On Saturday, November 3, 2018 at 6:14:20 PM UTC-7, Ed Carolipio wrote: 
> > 
> > I have a 51cm Roadini and have struggled with this question. I have 
> 78.5cm PBH with a 68cm saddle height. The Banana Sack works great and 
> clears the rear tire easily, but smallish for a packrat like me and I'm 
> reluctant to carry anything on myself when riding. The Saddlesack Small 
> fulfilled my packrat tendencies much better and worked okay until I carried 
> an Abus folding lock which created a saggy spot and the bag rubbed on the 
> rear tire. Another 1.5cm of seatpost or maybe tying the bag up with an 
> Irish strap would have avoided the problem. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I didn't like the Irish strap solution so I got a Carradice Barley and 
> tried it without the rack but had similar issues with the Saddlesack Small, 
> plus the opening was at a weird angle. I broke down and got the Carradice 
> bagman support. That setup - Barley + bagman - is what I've got on the bike 
> and I really like it. 
> > 
> > 
> > BTW for the front, I got a Carradice Zipped Roll and am using it as a 
> handlebar bag. It's kind of wide as a handlebar bag: my bars are 44cm Nitto 
> Noodles (Hiway Ones in the photo), and likely won't work with anything 
> narrower. 
> > 
> > 
> > --Ed C. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 12:24:03 PM UTC-7, Daniel D. wrote: 
> > Decided I want a little bigger bag than just a seat pack.  Leaning 
> towards a Carradice Pendle, Barley, etc..  Aesthetically the bikepacker 
> bags don't do it for me.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The question is fit on a smaller frame.  Am I stuck using a bagman 
> support?  Is there enough clearance to use without a support? 
> > 
> > 
> > Pic tape measure head is in the saddle bag loop 
>
>

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[RBW] Basket rack

[Drw]

I’m making a guess, but roman’s Bike on the BLUG has prototype struts for a 
marks rack. I’d bet that this is the early version of the aforementioned basket 
rack. Looks pretty cool. 

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[RBW] PSA Riv Custom for sale

[Joe Bernard]

51.5cm square, Curt Goodrich build for 125 lbs., 26" wheels. Way too small for 
me, but somebody should grab this. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I agree with you in theory, but: 1) I don't like the looks of the ones I've 
seen, and 2) they're more expensive than a stem/riser combo, especially if 
you need more than one stem during fitting.  If you're in trial-and-error 
mode then modular is an advantage.  But if (for example) Nitto made one 
that looked like their Technomic- or Pearl-style stems with a removable 
face, I'd buy it.   

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 8:17:32 AM UTC-5, Hugh Flynn wrote:
>
> Best of both worlds is quill stem with removable face plate. Below Orange 
> makes some. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[G.E.]

I had a bar-end, 11-speed, friction shifting set up for a time and it 
wasn't bad. I ended up not keeping the bike (not because of the shifting, 
but due to overlap with other bikes), but I'd do it again on a bike, if it 
made sense for the set up Though, I frankly think the 2x10 was just as 
good, so not sure that extra really did much for me. But, I also think my 
3x9 works well too! :)

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 11:23:27 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Speaking of 'many-cogs," does anyone shift 11 in friction? 12? How do you 
> find it?
>
> Patrick Moore, who finds shifting 10 with Bar Cons quite easy.
>

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[RBW] Re: Another take on beausage

[Metin Uz]

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> OK, then.  Hopefully that wasn't too long and boring a narrative.  Anyhow, 
> here's a followup on the teaser.  This is my new-to-me Ebisu.  In the early 
> 2000s, when this frame was new, somebody commented "That's more Riv than a 
> Riv".
>

Funny. Back when I used to ride a Romulus on brevets, someone said: "That's 
Ebisu of Rivendell".

--Metin 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Another take on beausage

[Justin, Oakland]

Perhaps best described as a “more perfect bicycle” with apologies to Lincoln. 

-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Patrick Moore]

Speaking of 'many-cogs," does anyone shift 11 in friction? 12? How do you
find it?

Patrick Moore, who finds shifting 10 with Bar Cons quite easy.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Justin, Oakland]

SunRace also has a 12 speed drivetrain gruppo. Cranks, Shifter, Chain, 
Derailleur and Cassette. 

-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[William Henderson]

Grant’s not the only one! I’ve slowly drifted from 7 to 8 to 9 and now 10-seed 
cassettes. To be fair, I think the early N+1 speed systems really were a lot 
worse for practical riding. They always seem to start out less reliable, less 
inter-compatible and much more expensive. Then the manufacturers figure out the 
tricks to make it work, they copy one another and converge on some 
interchangeability among brands, and finally they allow the new tech to trickle 
down into their lower end line ups. By that point, it’s as mature, reliable and 
inexpensive as the tech it replaced.

As an aside, I wonder if this strategy isn’t just about maximizing profit on 
the high-end, but also about delivering reliable inexpensive components on the 
low-end. Some of the best and most reliable components I’ve used are decidedly 
low-end, and some of the most high-maintenance and annoying ones are high-end. 
But it’s not simply that low-end components always get new tech last. 
Sometimes, like with the beloved "big-jockey” Shimano Altus mech, we see new 
tech debut in the low-end stuff! But those innovations are practically-minded, 
and they are invisible to most customers rather than be flashy selling points. 
After all, if you are buying a bike and don’t care about getting a high-end 
machine with the latest frills, you are probably going to be most interested in 
a bike that you can ride hard, never tweak and seldom maintain.

William

> On Nov 8, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Jeremy Till  wrote:
> 
> This was especially funny to me as recently I have been reading the early 
> Readers (thanks, Reed!) and there are many instances of Grant lamenting the 
> unavailability of quality 6spd freewheels.  Now here's an Atlantis with 
> double that number of cogs out back!
> 
> Living in the flatlands, I've come to appreciate more closely spaced gears 
> than the 1x systems can offer, at least without greatly sacrificing overall 
> range. 9 speeds out back with two or three chainrings up front seems to be 
> the sweet spot for me.  
> 
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 3:36:53 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
> The industry has gone to 12 now?
> 
> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
> 
> 
> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are tied 
> in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
> 
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[RBW] PSA Riv Custom for sale

[Joe Bernard]

Whelp, it's pretty. I'm not sure I could live with teal and Campy 9-speed, 
but... it's pretty! 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/157870451985/permalink/2231079620547572/?sale_post_id=2231079620547572

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[Brett Callahan]

Thanks for the response, James. The only mini-V's I've had luck with have 
been Paul Moto-Lites, which I find to be wonderful. However, on my MIT 
Atlantis, they won't clear the large rubber + fenders. Despite having set 
up a number of canti brakes on a number of bikes, and having read reams of 
digital paper on the how and why of the setup, I've never been able to get 
them to stop as well as V's. So for now, I'm running short pull Gevenalle 
shifters/brakes with travel agents and Shimano V's. It works just fine, but 
I figure the travel agents will increase wear on the brake cable and 
require more tinkering down the road.

Beautiful build, thanks for sharing it. I always enjoy your posts. 

Cheers, 
Brett

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 7:49:35 AM UTC-8, James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:
>
> I have not used the Tektro levers, which in general are just so so.  These 
> are Cane Creek V brake levers, similar design to an older Tektro design, 
> but nicer materials and finish.  These work well.  Wider and longer than 
> the diacompe hoods, good for bigger hands or folks who are over the 'aero' 
> brake lever shape.  These brakes are not designed for short pull levers.  
> Mini V brakes in general are kinda wacky, you have to run the brake pads 
> really close to the rim, and they have poor mud/untru wheel clearance.  
>
> Well set up, low profile cantis are very powerful, and if one is looking 
> for short pull levers + canti's, that's the direction I'd suggest looking.  
> Lower profile than Paul's touring.  Look up the old Paul stop lites, 
> they're perfect in terms of power.  Something similar in design would 
> produce similar results.  Shimano Altus...  pretty great cheapo brake if 
> you upgrade the pads and ditch the lawyer straddle wire.  
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 1:48:34 PM UTC-5, Brett Callahan wrote:
>>
>> Same question. I'm running canti pull brake levers on my MIT Atlantis 
>> with V-brakes, which requires a Travel Agent. I tried out the Tektro 
>> V-brake levers and they are hot garbage. If the Bombshell brakes work with 
>> standard levers, that would great!
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 10:35:19 AM UTC-8, Drw wrote:
>>>
>>> are you using long pull levers, or do those bombshells function as 
>>> mini-v's?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Jeremy Till]

This was especially funny to me as recently I have been reading the early 
Readers (thanks, Reed!) and there are many instances of Grant lamenting the 
unavailability of quality 6spd freewheels.  Now here's an Atlantis with 
double that number of cogs out back!

Living in the flatlands, I've come to appreciate more closely spaced gears 
than the 1x systems can offer, at least without greatly sacrificing overall 
range. 9 speeds out back with two or three chainrings up front seems to be 
the sweet spot for me.  

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 3:36:53 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> The industry has gone to 12 now?
>
> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
>
>
> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are 
> tied in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
>

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[James / Analog Cycles]

Yup.  They'd be long enough even if they were 44cm long or so.  We've run 
similar drivetrains before on shorter stay bikes.  

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 12:09:28 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Are the chainstays long enough to allow use of all 9 cassette cogs with 
> each chainting, without cross-chaining becoming an issue?  

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[James / Analog Cycles]

Never had a quality issue with the Cane Creek levers.  Replaceable hoods, 
fine bushings, the rest is the same:  stamped and formed aluminum, rubbery 
hoods... They're wider and longer than the Diacompe levers and 
erognomically work better with many bar bends.  

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 2:13:35 PM UTC-5, Drw wrote:
>
> the dia-compe drop v levers are better quality than the tektro/cane 
> creeks, though far from perfect. i'd love to find a way to use a better 
> lever without a travel agent also. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[James / Analog Cycles]

They're long pull levers, Cane Creek modified with IRD shifter mounts.  

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 1:35:19 PM UTC-5, Drw wrote:
>
> are you using long pull levers, or do those bombshells function as 
> mini-v's?
>

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[James / Analog Cycles]

I have not used the Tektro levers, which in general are just so so.  These 
are Cane Creek V brake levers, similar design to an older Tektro design, 
but nicer materials and finish.  These work well.  Wider and longer than 
the diacompe hoods, good for bigger hands or folks who are over the 'aero' 
brake lever shape.  These brakes are not designed for short pull levers.  
Mini V brakes in general are kinda wacky, you have to run the brake pads 
really close to the rim, and they have poor mud/untru wheel clearance.  

Well set up, low profile cantis are very powerful, and if one is looking 
for short pull levers + canti's, that's the direction I'd suggest looking.  
Lower profile than Paul's touring.  Look up the old Paul stop lites, 
they're perfect in terms of power.  Something similar in design would 
produce similar results.  Shimano Altus...  pretty great cheapo brake if 
you upgrade the pads and ditch the lawyer straddle wire.  



On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 1:48:34 PM UTC-5, Brett Callahan wrote:
>
> Same question. I'm running canti pull brake levers on my MIT Atlantis with 
> V-brakes, which requires a Travel Agent. I tried out the Tektro V-brake 
> levers and they are hot garbage. If the Bombshell brakes work with standard 
> levers, that would great!
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 10:35:19 AM UTC-8, Drw wrote:
>>
>> are you using long pull levers, or do those bombshells function as 
>> mini-v's?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experimental MIT Atlantis Build

[James / Analog Cycles]

Thanks Doug!  Candice is super creative with tape treatments.  Lots of tie 
dye, masking areas with plants as stencils... maybe we can post a guide 
here.

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-5, Doug H. wrote:
>
> James,
> Thank you for sharing this unique drivetrain. And, the leaves on the grip 
> tape are cool as heck.
> Doug
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Philip Williamson]

I’m interested to see examples of your small frame - high bars bikes set up 
with each method.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Ginz]

But realizing that I did not comment on convenience, I will do that now.  
When you have a frame with a long, long steerer with huge huge stack of 
spacers or a highly angled stem, it becomes quite a trigonometry problem to 
figure out which stem angle and extension to order to make the bars do X, Y 
or Z.   If the frame was designed for high bars, perhaps that concern goes 
away.  At that point, to me, it is mostly an aesthetic choice.

Removable faceplates are a huge convenience with threadless, but in my 
opinion don't outweigh the above.

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Re: [RBW] Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Tim Gavin]

Jim-

I thought so, too.  The first SRAM Eagle 12-speed was nearly $2k.

But a GX Eagle groupset retails for ~$500, and NX Eagle for ~$375.  Pretty
comparable to Shimano's offerings at the middle of the market.  But not
commodity level yet.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:52 AM Jim Bronson  wrote:

> The big question is price.  The first year Sram had 12, it was uber
> expensive.  Now I think they've brought out a more affordable 12 speed
> groupset, but I'm looking for commodity prices like where 9 and 10 are
> now.  I think 11 is just about at commodity levels too, but I don't think
> 12 speed probably is yet.
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:36 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:
>
>> The industry has gone to 12 now?
>>
>> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
>>
>>
>> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are
>> tied in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Ginz]

Ah yes! Threaded is my choice. Sorry for the error.

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Re: [RBW] Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Jim Bronson]

The big question is price.  The first year Sram had 12, it was uber
expensive.  Now I think they've brought out a more affordable 12 speed
groupset, but I'm looking for commodity prices like where 9 and 10 are
now.  I think 11 is just about at commodity levels too, but I don't think
12 speed probably is yet.

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:36 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> The industry has gone to 12 now?
>
> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
>
>
> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are
> tied in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Earls61]

Do you mean, “threaded is my choice”?

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Re: [RBW] Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Tim Gavin]

Yep, I just built myself an All-City Electric Queen (steel hardtail frame)
with SRAM GX Eagle 1 x 12.  10-50t cassette with a 32t chain ring.  It
works great.  But it did require SRAM's proprietary XD freehub body, which
was an added cost to the Hope hub I used.

But I'm still not sold on 1 x for a road-oriented bike.  I'm happy with the
compact double on my gravel bike, and the triple on my Riv.  I feel that
having closer gears in the middle of the range (due to overlap from the
double/triple) is preferable, in order to find the "perfect" gear on a long
stretch of road.

Whereas, I'm OK with 1 x 12 on my trail-oriented MTB, because I'm never
pedaling for very long.  And front derailleurs can become unresponsive in
deep mud or snow.  I changed my fat bike to 1 x 10, with a 30t Wolftooth
chain ring and a 11-40 Sunrace Cassette.  Not quite as wide of range as the
GX Eagle, but it was much cheaper to convert it (since I had 2 x 10
already).

And I definitely appreciate the clutch on the rear derailleur on my MTB, to
minimize chain slap during rough riding.

I also give kudos to SRAM for making their 10-speed MTB and Road stuff work
together (Exact Actuation shift ratio).  You can use their drop-bar
shifters (like DoubleTaps or bar-ends) with MTB rear derailleurs, making
wide-range drivetrains easier to build.
And although SRAM changed the shift ratio on 11- and 12-speed MTB stuff
(X-Actuation shift ratio), you can still use 11-speed road shifters with a
10-speed MTB RD to get a wide-range 11-speed drivetrain.

At this point, my three dirt-oriented bikes (MTB, fat, and gravel) all have
SRAM drivetrains with clutch RDs.  Only my Riv and my retro-MTB-townie use
Shimano drivetrains, on triple cranks.



Speaking of SRAM bar-ends: one of the owners of the shop I work for
(Goldfinch Cyclery) found a SRAM R2C shifter and mounted it as a bar-end.
The R2C was designed for aero bars on TT bikes, so the shift lever returns
to center (AKA the most aerodynamic position) after each actuation.  It is
a trigger-shifter on a bar-end!  It's funky but he likes it.  SRAM also
makes standard-actuating bar-end shifters; both types are available in 10
and 11 speed.



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:36 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> The industry has gone to 12 now?
>
> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
>
>
> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are
> tied in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[Ginz]

On small sized frames it is awfully tough to get the bars high on a threadless 
setup without having a ridiculously long steerer that looks silly or an 
intensely sloping top tube.  For a classic looking smaller frame, threadless is 
my choice. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless versus threaded stems -- convenience summary

[hugh flynn]

Best of both worlds is quill stem with removable face plate. Below Orange
makes some.

With there were more.

I've "cheated" a bit and used threadless stems with quill adapters when
trying to get my fit right. Once that's done, I've always replaced with a
real quill just because I find the quill adapter approach to look so
clunky.

Hugh "fretting fiddler" Flynn
Newburyport, MA

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:05 PM 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I get the best of both worlds on about half my bikes by using a threadless
> stem and stem riser.  The stem is threadless and has a removable faceplate
> so I can swap the stem without stripping the bars.  It's attached to a
> riser that's essentially a threaded quill stem without the extension.  A
> link to Velo-Orange's option is below, but others make them as well (Soma
> is the other one I use when I need one that's longer than VO's).  It's not
> as elegant as a classic quill stem, but oh man, the added convenience
> overwhelms that drawback for most bikes.
>
> If you don't want to live with one forever, it's at least a great option
> to let you dial in your stem dimensions before that one final set-up that
> requires you to strip and retape.
>
>
> https://velo-orange.com/collections/stems/products/vo-threadless-stem-adaptor
>
> Dave
> Boston/Indy
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 11:16:50 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>
>> But OTOH, the huge amount of work saved by not having to untape the bar
>> and remove clamped-on fittings, and the savings in replacing bar tape (I
>> manage to mess up tape when removing it several times) makes the difference
>> in my opinion a wash.
>>
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Newburyport, MA

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[RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Lum Gim Fong]

Way back they did corn cob cassettes with 40-something 50-something up front 
for pro racers.
Now seems like they are reversing it.

It would be interesting to compare times of todays racers with the old racers 
and see what the diffs are now.

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Re: [RBW] Surprise New Bike Day

[Tony DeFilippo]

Bon Jon Pass 700x35 rather... Not the 38's.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 06:38 Tony DeFilippo  Could anyone with Compass Barlow Pass tires pass along the height and
> width of the tire profile nothing the rim type?  I think 32mm is an easy
> fit but I'd like to squeeze all the plushness I can into the frame.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 00:58 Philip Williamson  wrote:
>
>> I had a three speed Robin Hood that came off the curbs of Boston! My
>> friend was moving out here, the bike got put out next to his uhaul, and he
>> threw it inside. His wife was not amused, and I inherited it. I tuned it
>> up, threw my back out riding it up Fountaingrove, and gave it to a friend
>> for Burning Man.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Surprise New Bike Day

[Tony DeFilippo]

Could anyone with Compass Barlow Pass tires pass along the height and width
of the tire profile nothing the rim type?  I think 32mm is an easy fit but
I'd like to squeeze all the plushness I can into the frame.

Thanks,
Tony

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 00:58 Philip Williamson  I had a three speed Robin Hood that came off the curbs of Boston! My
> friend was moving out here, the bike got put out next to his uhaul, and he
> threw it inside. His wife was not amused, and I inherited it. I tuned it
> up, threw my back out riding it up Fountaingrove, and gave it to a friend
> for Burning Man.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
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[RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

They are definitely running smack into the wall of the law of diminishing 
returns as it applies to Technology. Aside from marketing, this has become a 
case of "Can we do it", not "What are the benefits to the rider?" At least one 
of my bikes has 14 speeds. No Hydraulics required, just a front derailleur.

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[RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[ascpgh]

I looked at the Rotor stuff on Bikeradar. By the time you have a 52t cog in 
a pile of 13 on the cassette, it would have to be made of NASA-level 
unobtanium or nears negating the promoted weight penalty of a second 
chainring and derailleur of a 2x10 system. 

I'm neither undone by the complexity or weight of two chainrings and a 
derailleur to operate them nor loath the shifting rubric to meet the 
terrain I am riding. I don't doubt a segment exists where this is good 
news, I just worry it's also a marketing arms race. 
https://youtu.be/9dMpX7WUIlU

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 7:04:53 PM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Wow!I just looked at some Rotor stuff. Pro only or people with way, way, 
> way, high cycling priorities!
> Very interesting and very lightweight groupset, though.
>
> They showed the guts of the brifters and looks so delicate like you could 
> snap it off the handle bars with a mild palm strike.
>

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