Re: [RBW] WTB: Hillborne in Sage Color, 62cm or 64cm

[redsydude]

There are two 62 cm Sam Hillborne bikes and a 62 cm Sam Hillborne frameset 
on the Garage Sale pages of the Rivendell website.  There is also a 
presale special for the new AHH which has some updates and improvements on 
the original AHH/Sam designs.  

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 10:20:18 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> There was a 64 that came up on the group maybe 1-2 years ago, I was sorry 
> that I missed out on it.
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 9:22 AM Cody Bartz  > wrote:
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I have followed the group for a while. In 2010, in college, I bought my 
>> first "serious" dependable bike, a Surly Long Haul Trucker. A friend of 
>> mine owned a Hunqapillar, and I was always envious. She introduced me to 
>> Rivendell. Over the years I have bought a number of parts and accessories, 
>> always wanting a Riv. I am tempted to buy new, but wanted to put some 
>> feelers out to see if anyone was getting rid of a large Hillborne, ideally 
>> in the Sage color. 
>>
>> : ) 
>> Cody
>>
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>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Coffee Making Question

[redsydude]

What river is that?  What's the weir for? Thanks.

On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 7:54:02 AM UTC-7, Virgil Staphbeard wrote:
>
> I use an aeropress as well. I also have a reusable drip filter with 'legs' 
> that clip onto a cup if i'm trying to go lighter. 
>
> We have a group that meets pretty much every Sat. or Sun. morning via bike 
> and brews coffee.
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 10:02:26 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>>
>> I notice a strong correlation to those who love Riv Bikes, for a love of 
>> coffee. On instagram I see a lot of coffee brewing bike kits for when folks 
>> are out on their bikes. I am curious to know what people use. If you have a 
>> coffee bike kit, would you share what you take with you? 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: In search of trade: Long shot, at that - 56cm Hillborne for something that fits me better

[redsydude]

There was a funny thing in one of the Readers where they installed a stem 
backwards and reported that the bike handled fine.

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[RBW] PSA: Puget Sound Romulus

[redsydude]

Dear Rivendell,
I'm passing up a good deal on a nice looking Romulus because I have faith 
that you will complete the 'not so Top Secret' Clem/Road bike project.  For 
those with less patience:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/bik/5723399037.html

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[RBW] Re: Ch-ch-ch-changes... in 2016

[redsydude]

A few years ago there was a very funny post here by a good Bay 
Area customer who owned a few Rivendells and went to Walnut Creek to buy 
their latest design. (I think) Vince told him he had enough bikes and sent 
him home.  Wouldn't sell it to him.  Priceless. 

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 5:24:54 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>
>
>"Just trust us, we know what's best for you" .Sounds familiar , huh 
> ?  Ahahahahaahah .   Isn't it funny how "best" is always changing , todays 
> best is tomorrow's relagation to also-ran.  This is no specific to anyone 
> in particular , really humanity itself .  Ever fickle, undecided. Change is 
> applauded one day and cursed the next. 
>
>Just who can you trust , who truly knows "best" ?   H , who ever 
> said there is a best, worst, good, bad, etc. etc. ?  Take away the polarity 
> and what do you have ?  Perfect stillness, which contains All and is 
> subject to none. 
>
>   Yes.  . . . it is all-ways a good day to Ride with a wondrous , 
> inexplicable smile !
>

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[RBW] Re: Stolen SimpleOne and a question

[redsydude]

Are there any production frames with a similar 72.5/72.5 and midlong 
chainstay geometry? If nothing else I might round up an 80s steel touring 
frame and throw a SimpleOne fork on it.

There is a 25 inch 1986 Schwinn Passage for sale on Portland craigslist (in 
Vancouver) right now for $250.  

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 8:54:45 AM UTC-7, donavanm wrote:

 As the subject says, theres another stolen SimpleOne out there now. Last 
 Thursday night I was out at Golden Gardens in Seattle enjoying the sunset 
 with some friends. Bikes were parked ~15 feet away on the beach, which was 
 far enough for someone to make off unnoticed. They kindly left another 
 friends tandem and my helmet plus gloves behind. Already reported to SPD 
 etc, though I have little hope of recovery.

 First was my daily commuter, 62CM SimpleOne frame serial M105. At time 
 of theft included black revelate frame bag, black Haulin Colin front rack + 
 wald basket, Supernova light, Velo Orange branded SP dynamo hub, salsa 
 delgado rims, silver Paul cantilever brakes, schwalbe little big ben tires. 
 https://bikeindex.org/bikes/46199

 Second was a friends 1993 XO-2, purple paint, 54cm frame, 
 serial H220098. At time of theft included silver rear rack, white bar tape, 
 salsa 38cm short and shallow drop bars, nitto periscopa stem, bar end 
 shifters, original deore 3x7 drive train, original wheelset. 
 https://bikeindex.org/bikes/46200

 And now the question, suggestions for a similar single speed frame? The 
 SimpleOne was my favoritist bike, used for daily commuting, shenanigans, 
 and bike camping. Im seriously considering getting a clone custom made, but 
 would like a replacement in a sooner time frame. Are there any production 
 frames with a similar 72.5/72.5 and midlong chainstay geometry? If nothing 
 else I might round up an 80s steel touring frame and throw a SimpleOne fork 
 on it.


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[RBW] Thank you Rich Lesnik

[redsydude]

 

On 16 Dec there was a web special for an already built dyno wheel.  I put 
it in my cart as a Christmas present and while I was figuring out which 
lights to get with the wheel, someone else bought and paid for it.   So I 
ordered the Schmidt wheel with a three week lead time knowing that it 
wouldn’t arrive until after the New Year.  Then on 22 Dec I got a call from 
Rich telling me the wheel was done and he was shipping it.  It arrived at 
5:30 pm on 24 Dec.  The point of this is that Rich must have figured that 
this was probably a Christmas gift and he saved me from my (annual) 
procrastination crisis.  That was really, really nice and others have used 
this group to acknowledge when Rivendell went above and beyond so I am too.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa sneak peek

[redsydude]

I don't know why he hasn't followed up here but on 1 Aug 14 the guy who 
started this thread (Bill) wrote a post titled RBWHQ Spy Photos with 
several Riv blessed photos of the prototype Appaloosa frame.

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:32:52 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:

 Are there any rides in the works? 
 I've been wanting to go on one just really haven't had any luck with 
 making it... 



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[RBW] Two things

[redsydude]

 
   
   1. 
   
   I don’t see saddles on the Clem page yet.  Which saddles would the Clem 
   algorithm (i.e. 50% of the cost, 75% of the looks, and 90% of the utility 
   of a B-17) identify?  
   2. 
   
   On Saturday morning I was walking my foster dog on a Mt. Tabor 
   (Portland) path and a line of about 10 bikes passed us.  I wasn’t sure 
   if she would be skittish so I only took a glance but there appeared to be a 
   very high fraction of Rivendells.  Pretty cool.  
   

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[RBW] Re: Who got Mystery Bikes?

[redsydude]

5.  There was also a redesigned or updated hunqapillar prototype that 
someone bought at the garage sale a few months ago.  

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:12:38 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:

 I'm confused about some of these developing models over the last two years 
 which never get into full-on production. Perhaps they are experimenting 
 before settling on one to publish?

  
 From what I recall there were a few things going on:
 1. *Keven designed econo-model* was supposed to come out. Haven't seen 
 one.
 2. *Mystery bike*. I think one person (male) posted here one with 
 tentacular stays. That's the only one I remember, if that was one.
 3. Talk of an *Appaloosa*. But no sight of full on production yet. Just 
 a few pics of rare sightings at RBW. Is the App actually the mystery bike? 
 Maybe the mystery models were protos for the App?
 4. Now there is talk of a *Clem*, which looks like it may be similar to 
 the App, which I think never came out in full production.

 Maybe one model will rise out of these for production, or some are limited 
 runs, and not sold online?


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[RBW] Re: Advice needed on knee pain (yet another thread)

[redsydude]

I have a very similar pain and I think it would just heal but for a knee 
high Australian shepherd that crashes into me 200 times a day. 

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:39:18 PM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Hi Friends,

 I looked back at previous threads, most notably the link below on short 
 cranks and knee pain; however, perhaps this question is slightly different.

 Over the past week or a bit longer, I've developed a really pronounced 
 pain in my right knee.  It's on under the front part of my kneecap and is 
 bad enough that I stopped riding and am limping a bit.  I do think it's 
 riding related.  Here's some info:  I switched pedals maybe a week or two 
 ago from thin griptsters to sneaker pedals.  I switched back and forth 
 between seats/seatposts during this time as well, and may have gotten the 
 height off.  The right knee was bothering me a little bit during this time, 
 but then really got sore two days ago when I rode up a short but extremely 
 steep hill that I usually walk up (for locals, it was the long bit of 
 driveway between pleasant and w. irvine ave adjacent to Ramsey hill).  I 
 dropped down to granny gears and sat part of the way and then stood up to 
 finish the hill.  The next meaning I was just about hobbled—but only my 
 right knee.  Left knee is fine as can be.

 Suggestions?  Advice?  Thanks in advance...

 here's the most previous thread I looked at


 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/short$20crank/rbw-owners-bunch/vJf-xAPTC-Q/cNWWDMyIb1YJ


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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne brochure and silver tubes

[redsydude]

This is Grant Petersen's contribution to an RBW thread titled are 
Rivendell tubesets proprietary? from a few weeks ago.  Sounds like Silver 
tubes are newer than your Sam.

Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy 
Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube 
angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 
48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees.
A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall 
thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's 
really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm 
length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager 
gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) 
gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even.
The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging 
about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's 
far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 
at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but 
(is 0.8) at the oppo-end.
Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To 
my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You 
get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to 
resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more 
important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin 
side, but this is a super low-stress area. 
The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to 
frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It 
would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short 
on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. 
The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far 
more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, 
I don't care.
I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a 
fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long.

Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood 
(twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about 
Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, 
not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no 
guarantee of a good joint or frame.

Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the 
point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying 
numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves 
tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who 
actually does know what they mean?

1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 
1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so 
short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy.

All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they 
tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center 
portion of a downtube? I don't think so.


On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:59:47 AM UTC-7, RJM wrote:

 I noticed the brochure for the Sam posted on the Blug today and took a 
 gander. Very well done piece of marketing...I love it. It makes me want to 
 buy another Hillborne and set it up for trail riding. 
  
  
 https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/rivbike/Sam+Hillborne+Brochure+2014
  
  
 I read in there about Silver tubes being Riv's own design. I'm wondering 
 when these tubes started showing up on the Hillbornes. I have a very early 
 orange canti post Sam Hillborne, possibly even a first run of the bike, and 
 I was wondering if a new Sam would be different riding. Well, probably 
 since I currently have a 48 and the size I would get now would be the 51, 
 so that is different. The brochure says Long story short, we have more 
 metal where it matters and less where it doesn't. with the silver tubes. 
 I really wonder if the new tubes (if they are indeed new) would ride 
 differently than the older Sam. Any thoughts? Any first hand experience?


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[RBW] Re: Overheard at a bike shop

[redsydude]

 

When I was stationed at Hill AFB, Utah in the 1980s all my friends were 
skiers so I randomly walked into a sporting goods store and, with the help 
of a salesperson, bought some skies, boots and bindings. I skied for a few 
years and progressed from the bunny hills to steeper slopes and was never 
in any way limited by that equipment choice. (My technician at the time 
grew up in the Ogden Valley.  One day we were shooting the breeze and he 
said that he skied his whole life but didn’t anymore and when I asked him 
why he said; “because the ski slopes are full of guys like you who don’t 
know what they’re doing”.)  I imagine that if I had stayed there and 
continued to improve I would have replaced those skies with something into 
which I put much more thought. Last week I was in REI with my wife and 
while she shopped I took a look at the bikes.  I was thinking that if I was 
in my 20s now, I would probably buy one of these light, skinny tire bikes 
with the strangely shaped tubes and, like those skis, it would work fine 
until I figured out enough about bike riding to thoughtfully replace it.


On Monday, June 30, 2014 6:45:31 PM UTC-7, Mathew Greiner wrote:

 You know, the whole should we or shouldn't we intervene discussion has 
 been fascinating, but it misses the point somehow. By being together in the 
 same LBS, we are participating--along with the sales staff and the shop and 
 any potential customers--in a shared experience of bicycling interest. 
 There's a question of one's attitude, of course, but it's easy to strike a 
 rapport with others in these situations. Friendly chitchat is only friendly 
 chitchat, but it could quickly emphasize the aspects of what a buyer 
 actually wants and needs, vs. whatever glitzy business is being dangled. 
 Hey now, that IS nice. Would it fit 40mm tires, do you think? Those really 
 smooth out the ride for me. I ride more when I'm comfortable. Loyal 
 customers are customers that feel like they've been heard and dealt with as 
 individuals.
 My parents recently joined Costco. On their first trip, they were 
 examining some product, clearly challenged by the choices, and another 
 customer walked past them saying that Brand X was the best after she'd 
 tried three others. It was the best, hands down. She said. Similar things 
 happened with repeat visits, and then they noticed themselves offering 
 their own opinions. Other than apparently being able to eat lunch for free 
 by circling the samples, I think this culture of recommendation is their 
 favorite part about the store.




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Re: [RBW] Starting to wonder if all this frame stuff really matters.

[redsydude]

The people on this list have forgotten more about bikes than I’ll ever know 
but I was around the golf business when aerospace engineers and materials 
scientists started to revolutionize the clubs and the ball.  I’m sure that 
the intent was to help the average player make better contact, get the ball 
up in the air and hit it a little straighter (and sell everybody a new set 
of clubs).   In the hands of professionals, the new club and ball 
completely changed the game and forced tournament courses to be redesigned 
to protect par.  However, for the average guy with the average golf swing, 
the club and ball were never an important limiting factor to better 
scoring.  I recently heard that now that equipment improvements have 
plateaued, pros are practicing with old persimmon woods and balata balls to 
get better feedback on contact.  Likewise, I read that the Lovely Bicycle 
blogger was climbing hills in a higher than optimum gear try to do some 
resistance training.  When I was in the Air Force I worked on tactics 
against surveillance architectures.  Then I was recruited into a group 
developing countermeasures against those tactics.   I was aware of groups 
working on countermeasures against our countermeasures that we called 
counter-countermeasures.  Crazy games.

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 6:54:23 AM UTC-7, JimD wrote:

 +1
 Had a Madone. 

 It was a fine bike. 

 I Like my Riv Custom way more. It rides and handles a skitch better. 

 It looks WAY better.
 The Madone was a tool, the Riv is an object of desire.

 -JimD
 On Apr 22, 2014, at 7:23 AM, RJM crccp...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:

 I've done both carbon and steel. I prefer the steel frame even with a 
 little extra weight since it is smoother than the madone I used to own. The 
 Domane might be the better carbon bike for me though since it is supposed 
 to be smoother than the Madone (speaking in the Trek lineup, of course) 
  
 Honestly though, I'm not seeing the advantage of a carbon fork even though 
 they sell them as having vibration dampening qualitiesespecially when 
 my Riv rides so smooth. I don't see carbon riding that smooth, at least 
 that has been my experience.
  
 To each his own though. 
  
 On Monday, April 21, 2014 7:16:35 PM UTC-5, eflayer wrote:

  No matter how you fat you are, if you have never had the experience of 
 comparing doing a climb on a 17 lb carbon bike and 22 + lb full steel 
 (Rivendell), I suggest you give it a try and then get back to the group 
 about your opinion of which you prefer. No doubt steel will hold up better 
 through the millenia and won't crack in crash, but bikes don't crash that 
 often and why not enjoy the ride in as many ways as you can? 
  
  


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[RBW] Re: Contemplating 1 x 9 drivetrain

[redsydude]

...the next gear can be an awkward front shift and a 2 or 3 click rear 
shift...
 
So if you are in say 44/15 (2.9) and you shift to a lower gear you go 
through 30/11 (2.7) then 44/17 (2.6) then 30/13 (2.3) ... until you get to 
where you want to be?  
On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:36:16 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:

 Deacon,  I'm sitting in an Inn after a hard drive across a chunk of Md., 
 all of Delaware, NJ, and up NY to Rhinebeck so my brain is too tired for a 
 full answer.  So here's the short version.

 All gearing combinations involve trade offs among 4 variables - hi/low 
 which you have identified; but also how big the jumps are between gears; 
 the ease of getting from one gear to the next; and where your favorite 
 gears are. 

 The wider the hi/low range the wider the steps between gears, but this can 
 be counteracted to some degree by going to a dbl and then a triple.  A wide 
 range cassette always yields large steps between gears, which I don't like. 
   I usually run a 12-27 or at most an 11-28.  Even with that, on our riding 
 in flat Virginia I only used 3 gears but two of them were too far apart.

 So the double will let you get a pretty wide range with smaller steps. 
  But with many doubles the next gear can be an awkward front shift and a 2 
 or 3 click rear shift leaving you between the gear you would really like. 
  A ring difference of 10 tends to yield the simplest shifting pattern - a 
 single click to the next gear.   14 tooth difference yields 2 clicks to the 
 next gear.  I tend to find the 12 difference leaving me between gears.  I 
 try to create sets with about 10% between gears  especially in the most 
 used middle.

 Finally, think about which gears you use the most and try to get a good 
 chain line and easy pattern between them.

 I rarely use a ratio of less than 1 to 1 and never more than 4-1.  For 
 example my Ram has a 44/30 and an 11/27 while the Saluki a 48/34/26 (24 for 
 big long climbs) with a 12-27.  The tandem, likes easy shifting, so 
 48/38/28 with a 12-27.  It feels very stressful to me to try to spin a 
 ratio much below 1-1 fast enough to keep a bike upright for a long time. 
  To each his own.

 Simplification is good, over simplification makes life more complicated 
 than it needs to be.

 Michael


 On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:45:03 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I am contemplating whether to go 1 x 9 or 2 x 9 with my drive train. here 
 is the gear ration range comparison:

 In gain ratios:

 Current range (excluding my big ring, which I rarely use and will be 
 dropping):
 1.5 - 6

 1 x 9 (28 x 12-36)
 1.6 - 4.7

 2 x 9 (24/36 x 12-36)
 1.3 - 6

 I don’t really need lower than 1.5, and I am unsure how the drop to 4.7 
 from 6 translates to speed loss. On flat or gradual descents, I suspect I 
 would miss those upper gears. Can anyone provide their wisdom here?

 I am asking the question because I want to go as simple as is practical. 
 I’d love to go with the 36t on a 1x set up, but it would add significantly 
 to the number of hills i’m walking, especially when bikepacking. Perhaps 
 going with a 30 or 32t 1x set up is the way to go? I will no doubt get 
 stronger and the loss may not be a big deal with that. But then it’s better 
 to lose gears on the upper range and coast more, and enjoy the ride on the 
 climbs without killing myself.

 All wisdom deeply appreciated.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org http://www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org http://www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: New Bike Day

[redsydude]

 

This will probably get deleted because I don’t know how to make it not 
sound snotty but it is a sincere question.  Is the point to get to places 
on a bike that would be easier to get to by just backpacking or is the bike 
still helping you go farther/faster?  

On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:49:45 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

 It's a Surly Krampus built up by Cycle Monkey, the US service partner 
 for Rohloff. Belt drives are a natural partner to internal gear hubs, 
 so Cycle Monkey builds up a lot of Rohloff + belt drive bikes. They 
 sent the frame to their chop shop to have the frame split for the 
 belt and to have a few other mods. They do a lot of frame 
 modifications. When they sent my frame to the chop shop, they also 
 sent seven other Surly frames: 

 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=664808040227860set=pb.304605066248161.-220752.1396021612.type=3theater
  

 I asked Neil at Cycle Monkey how soon I needed to replace the belt. 
 Maybe 15 thousand miles, he said. 

 The Krampus (and its brother the ECR) have three inch tires. It turns 
 out, three inches is not enough to make the bike a snow bike-- for 
 that you need the Moonlander/Pugsley style bike. So I'll have to visit 
 Minneapolis in the summer instead ;) 

 I debated on whether to pick the ECR or the Krampus. The ECR is more 
 of a touring style bike, with a lower bottom bracket and more stable 
 handling, and the Krampus is more of a trail bike, although both of 
 them are well suited to rough technical terrain. I ended up deciding 
 that if I needed a bike to tour on smooth gravel roads, I already have 
 one, in fact I already have two, my two Atlantises. So this bike is 
 for tours that include somewhat rougher terrain. 

 Yesterday I took the bike up a canyon that I've ridden before on my 
 Atlantis. I felt comfortable riding several obstacles I wouldn't do on 
 my Atlantis: a creek crossing, a sharp dip. I was glad of the higher 
 bottom bracket on a single track I hadn't ridden before, where I had a 
 couple of pedal strikes even with the higher bracket. And I was able 
 to descend back down the canyon in confidence; on the Atlantis I would 
 always go back home from that ride on the road. Midnight, Prince of 
 Darkness has traction to burn, and the disk brakes provide strong 
 stopping power, so I felt in control on the descents. 

 Other Riv riders are better bike handlers than I am, and would have 
 tackled these obstacles on their Rivendells. But for me, the Krampus 
 is a good choice for more technical terrain. 


 On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Deacon Patrick 
 lamon...@mac.comjavascript: 
 wrote: 
  Based on ground clearance, I'm guessing Krampus and completely prepared 
 to 
  be wrong. Grin. 
  
  With abandon, 
  Patrick 
  
  
  On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:48:07 AM UTC-6, Shoji Takahashi wrote: 
  
  Nice bike! ECR? or Krampus? or ?? 
  
  Did you have to get an aftermarket split for the belt drive? 
  
  Happy riding! Shoji 
  
  On Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:30:49 PM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: 
  
  It's not a Rivendell, but it has some Rivvy features. Meet Midnight, 
  Prince of Darkness: 
  
  
  
 https://plus.google.com/photos/+JohnLamping/albums/5995658591943182593?authkey=CKDxg7ehtuv6QQ
  
  
  I got it yesterday, took it out for a longer ride today. Fantastic. I 
  quickly got used to the instant Rohloff shifting. Rohloff + belt drive 
  means not much maintenance, which is good for someone with my slipshod 
  habits. 
  
  It's not obvious in the picture, but those tires are not just wide, 
  but HUGE. I rode my Atlantis over to get the car to drive up to Cycle 
  Monkey to get Midnight. So then I had two bikes to put in the car, and 
  I happened to put the Atlantis wheel next to Midnight's wheel. The 
  Atlantis' tire is not tiny; I have Schwalbe 1.9's on the bike. 
  Midnight's wheel was six inches taller. Huge. 
  
  Now I can do dirt tours and not get nervous on narrow bumpy trails. 
  
  I have a USB port in the stem. Because I am a nerd. 
  
  -- 
  -- Anne Paulson 
  
  It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
  
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 -- 
 -- Anne Paulson 

 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 


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[RBW] Re: Leaping onto an Atlantis

[redsydude]

I have no advice but here is an anode to your cathode. My whole life I’ve 
been a $200 bike person.  Last year I owned four of them and I was sick of 
the clutter so I gathered together one groupset of the best parts, sold or 
gave away everything else and bought a new Sam Hillborne frameset.  I 
figure I have 10x$200 in it and consider it a bargain.  I split my time 
between two cities so I’m back on craigslist looking for another $200 bike. 
When I think about the whole craigslist transaction hassle and the time and 
money to get the bike running OK, $200 bikes now seem outrageously 
overpriced to me.

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33:29 AM UTC-7, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

 Hello, 
 I am trying to talk myself into or out of a really pretty new Atlantis 
 with all it's parts. It would be the smaller frame because I'm short and 
 average weight 130. The price tag is somewhere around 4000 all said and 
 done and I feel stuck. My gut is pushing me in both directions because I've 
 never ridden an Atlantis. I'm also out of country and can't just go find 
 one to try. I love touring and I'd love to do some long international and 
 national tours and live in Colorado with hills. Okay thanks.Someone help 
 tip me! Is it irresponsible to spend this much money?


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[RBW] Re: Riv-esque Bike shops in Portland?

[redsydude]

The Universal Cycles store on Burnside has a showroom with Brooks, Nitto, 
Tekro, Sugino, ... and (based on the guy who helped me) 
excellent mechanic(s).  
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 7:37:11 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:

 My Rambouillet was originally sold at Coventry Cycles when they were a 
 Rivendell Dealer, and I bought my All Rounder at Sellwood Cycles.  Both 
 great shops, both pre-date the current hipster culture, 
 bike-as-fashion-statement movement that some people associate with Portland 
 today.  Also, don't forget Universal Cycles as a last-option if you can't 
 find what you need in a real shop.   They don't have mechanics or a 
 showroom where you can browse, but you can order on their site for local 
 pick-up.  They have a pretty diverse inventory.



 On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:21:55 PM UTC-6, Skip Richmond wrote:

 Where are the box dog bikes of multnomah county?
 the american cyclerys of the river city?
 the hand-made leather-bound bridge-city bag n racks?

 i ain't talkin this portland design works chump-swag
 i'm talking the real deal, hand-hammered, nickel-plated good stuff.

 tired of relying on mail order from riv, let me know where i can pick up 
 an xd-2 and some brass ferrules.

 see you in the extra-wide bike lanes,
 skip



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[RBW] Re: Update: the woman who is 5'2

[redsydude]

I did the same thing 30 years ago.  Walked into a bike shop with a fist 
full of cash to buy a miyata 610 and walked out with a much to small miyata 
710.  

On Friday, January 31, 2014 10:01:13 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

 She bought a carbon Trek Domane, because of course she did. 

 Interestingly, the Domane is billed as a bike for rough rides and 
 gravel. And it is spec'ed with, I am not making this up, 700 x 25 
 tires. Because when you're riding off road, you absolutely want to be 
 riding 25mm tires. I believe the bike allows enormously huge 28mm 
 tires too. 

 -- 
 -- Anne Paulson 

 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 


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[RBW] Re: The Utility of Mulitple Wheelset's

[redsydude]

 

This topic reminded me of my first question to Rivendell.  I emailed Jay 
Ritchey and asked him if the 52 cm Sam Hillborne could be built with 700c 
wheels so that you could use the frameset as both a 650b fat tire bike and 
a 700c skinny tire bike.  Jay replied that he thought there was enough 
room but that this was perhaps the most pointless idea ever proposed.  Sometime 
later another Rivendell employee  did put 700c wheels on his 650b Hilsen 
and when Grant put the picture on the Staff Bike page he wrote something 
like ‘don’t you do this’.  

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 4:55:01 AM UTC-8, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

 If you have them, how often do you take advantage of multiple wheelset's 
 on a bike?  So far in my bike tinkering I have usually been limited by 
 multiple wheel sizes or rear drop outs to making each build a stand alone, 
 frame specific function.  I have this thought that significant 
 interchangeability among multiple bikes would be some kind of nirvana... 
  I'm curious to hear anyone who has it or has at some point had it on 
 whether you really took advantage of it.  

 Right now between 6 active bikes and a tandem (two are my wife's) I have 
 27(1), 26(2), 700C(2) and 650B(2) wheel sizes and 130/135 OLD 
 represented, among those 3 or 4 bikes could fit the wheel's off of one 
 other bike but in practice I'm not doing any wheel swaps as each one is 
 built up and shod with a tire that matches the frame's intended function 
 and I don't have any spare wheelset's at present.

 Tony


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Re: [RBW] New bike siting: Cheviut/Cheviot/Chevrolet?

[redsydude]

That does it.  You're grounded from the list for 30 days.  I suggest you 
use the time to take a long, hard look at your attitude.  

On Monday, December 30, 2013 8:15:31 AM UTC-8, LeahFoy wrote:

 Will I get thrown off the list if I say I don't like the new mixte? I 
 guess orange and blue together look odd to me. And why use the lugs with 
 the hearts again? And fill in with blue? When I first heard the Betty was 
 being replaced, I worried that I'd love the new bike and regret the Betty, 
 but I think the Betty the lovelier bike, and also more fitted to the girly 
 city bike crowd (of which I'm a happy member). The Betty delighted ladies 
 everywhere with its smart femininity. And it was the second best selling 
 bike at Riv, if I recall. I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I'm not 
 understanding the new bike...though the head badge is dazzling!

 I think if I was in the market for a Riv mixte, I'd have to pay for a 
 custom paint job; the Glorious red or the lipstick-creamy pink sumehra has 
 on hers... What do all the other girls around here say???


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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[redsydude]

My younger brother and I had Schwinn 3 speeds when we were kids in the 
1960s.  When my brother was 15 he wanted a Raleigh Grand Prix and he saved 
$150.  My dad took us to a bike store in Portland but the Raleigh was 
$180.  Dad was a Depression kid, WWII vet and pretty tight but he gave my 
brother $30 so he could get his bike.  I don't have a lot of memories from 
my youth but that was awesome.  
 

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:04:27 AM UTC-8, Matthew J wrote:

 I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
 history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
 American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
 Riv. 

 That's the rub, I'ld say.  Until 1970, when as Steve points out above 
 Schwinn first started selling lugged Japanese made frames, a person looking 
 to buy a practical bike that could handle commuting, touring, light camping 
 and fun rides was probably going to wind up with a Schwinn Varsity, 
 Continental, or maybe even the Collegiate.  

 Paramounts and the few custom builders out there were mainly for racers. 
  Really a reflection of the market at the time.  Cycle commuting and 
 touring were very rare.  Sport cyclists existed, but no where near as 
 mainstream as they are today.  

 On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:23:42 PM UTC-6, Jim M. wrote:


 On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:40:25 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:

  On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:

 But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame 
 builders today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had yet 
 to move to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build 
 frames.  As was mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, 
 having begun in 1959.  


 Yes, Steve, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the difference 
 between the questions asked, using an example from today.

 I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
 history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
 American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
 Riv.

 jim m
 wc ca



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell SimpleBeam - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[redsydude]

If the concept is a Sam like single speed, a Betty like single speed 
would also be $1200.  
On Thursday, December 12, 2013 12:51:59 PM UTC-8, Ryan wrote:

 Yeah...as a 61 year old..the idea of a mixte SO appeals. Would push the 
 price up, I suspect . Good idea,though
 On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:03:13 PM UTC-6, 
 jus...@giftandvariety.org wrote: 

 I have a SO and love it. Maybe too much as it isn't my go-to bike as much 
 as I had intended it to be (or rationalized it). It gets more attention 
 than any other bike I have and I don't often let it leave my sight when I 
 do take it out. It is not the fault of the bike; I am just that fond of it. 
 I never understood why the SO didn't sell as well, or better than, the QB. 
 Beside the fact that it is made in a different factory (even Grant has said 
 that it is as well constructed as the QB) it has been improved upon with a 
 kickstand plate (I don't believe anyone that complains about the 'look or 
 weight of a plate... functionality wins here). All that said, I would buy 
 another if it were even MORE versatile with a rear cable bridge braze on 
 (helps when carrying smaller saddlebags without support) OR just switching 
 to sidepull breaks. I like the cantis but I think the sidepulls would make 
 a simple bike even simpler. But more than anything... I think that a new 
 SimpleBeam should be a Mixte frame! Yeah, it might be a deal breaker for 
 some that think a level top tube is the only top tube that counts but a 
 severely-sloping TT would make a useful bike even more useful with the 
 addition of racks (and baskets) and easy (dis)mouting. Sure, young folks 
 can swing those legs up like a dog marking their turf but with a mixte you 
 can step-through like you mean it. With slightly thicker tubes (like an 
 Atlantis) you could do anything, anywhere, anytime, with luggage!



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[RBW] Re: Soma Grand Randonnee, from a Rivendell perspective

[redsydude]

I thought the Rivendell perspective was that wheel diameter should be 
a direct function of frame size and that a 65 cm frame would have a wheel 
diameter somewhat greater than 622 mm if such a thing was (readily) 
available.  I'm just recalling something I think I once read, perhaps in an 
old Bridgestone catalog or Reader.
On Monday, November 11, 2013 10:15:31 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:

 Why, as a discerning Rivendell owner, should I not like this bike?  It 
 comes in a 65cm and it costs $489 for a frame and fork.

 Obviously, it's not lugged, but I have other bikes that aren't lugged.
 The chain stays are non-ideal at 42cm.  (my Riv has 46cm chainstays!)
 The bend on the front fork is not so pretty like on a Riv.
 I'm a bit concerned about the top tube being only 61cm in the 65cm size. 
  But could probably be compensated for partially with a stem that has more 
 horizontal run to it, or an offset seatpost, or both.

 Other than that, I'm finding it hard not to want to get this frame.  I'm 
 thinking of culling the herd and buying one.  I have a few bikes that I 
 don't really use enough to keep that could probably add up to $489 or more. 
  I have a lot - a lot! of parts on hand in various areas of a bicycle so 
 wouldnt need to acquire much.

 The plan has been to convert my Riv to 650b but I could just leave it 
 alone at 700c and buy the Soma to put the 650b stuff on to.

 Hmm.


 -- 
 Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! 


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[RBW] Re: 56cm Sam Hillborne on SF craigslist

[redsydude]

Right, $990 and then another 10% because I saw the one day flash sale 
notice.  I've been waiting to see if the budget riv commuter 
project gets to production but I couldn't resist that much discount.
On Monday, October 21, 2013 3:57:29 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:

 Was that one of the Stealthbornes. The ones without the cream head 
 tubes? They were like 900-something, weren't they?



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Re: [RBW] Re: 56cm Sam Hillborne on SF craigslist

[redsydude]

I bought one of the (incorrectly painted) 2 top tube 56 cm Sam Hillborne 
framesets on the web specials page two months ago knowing that it would 
be really difficult to resell if I didn't like it.  Rivendell had trouble 
selling them and they got some negative comments here.  

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:23:45 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:

 Well, the reason I call it cheap is only because seems like lotsa 
 oold Rivs I have seen online for sale have asking prices that are for 
 more than their original values from when they were production bikes. 
 Those, I just don't get..

 I could understand if they have Son hubs and Phil stuff and Herse this and 
 Rich- built that...

 Anyway, this Sam being only year old, the seller is being extremely fair 
 for his asking price.
 It would have made my day when I was looking for my first used Rivbike... 
 and if I was a 56 size.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Guys and Their Carbon Toys

[redsydude]

 When I started following rbw discussions four years ago it seems like 
there were frequent debates about things like carbon vs steel that would go 
on for days with literally hundreds of posts.  I understand that for long 
term members those debates were just a tedious rehash of stuff that they 
had seen here before but to a new member like me they were really 
compelling and I miss them.  These days I just pop in from time to time to 
see what’s for sale but I happened to click on this and got a little 
nostalgic. 
On Friday, June 7, 2013 6:00:58 AM UTC-7, meehan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Being familiar with Grant P.'s feelings carbon bicycles, and this group's 
 strong preference for steel and in particular, lugged steel bikes; it seems 
 a bit unrealistic to request that this group not engage in anti-carbon 
 discussion. I would imagine it's akin to going to a group with a fondness 
 for traditional film camera and ask that they not dis digital photography. 
 Just sayin'...
  
 Shaun


 On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com 
 javascript:wrote:

 I'm more comfortable - even without gel diapers


 On Thursday, June 6, 2013 4:42:20 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:

 On Thursday, June 6, 2013 8:17:24 AM UTC-7, Christopher Murray wrote:

 please oh please oh please let's not let this develop into an anti- 
 carbon discussion. Lets just let everyone ride whatever kind of bike it 
 is 
 they want to ride and be happy that they are out there riding. We should 
 be 
 celebrating our sameness (bikes) and not fighting over our differences 
 (steel vs cf, tire width, position, etc.). 

  
 Then On Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:39:12 PM UTC-5, pb wrote:

  

 But if you apply that policy, how do you know -- and prove the fact to 
 others -- that you are smarter, righter, better, and part of a superior 
 group of people? 


 While I know that this is tongue-in-cheek, I humbly offer that  I am not 
 smarter, righter, and better and that we are not a superior group of 
 people—but rather that I am part of a group of people who are bound by love 
 for things Riv, and especially by love for Rivendell bicycles.  We are 
 bound by love and that is our sameness.

 okay, now I'll step down from my tiny tippy soapbox ;0)
 -RCW

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[RBW] Re: Dumb ChroMo Albas question but need to ask.

[redsydude]

I believe that for those two metals aluminum is the electron donor and once 
a surface layer of aluminum oxide forms the contact area is perfectly 
insulated from redox.  

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:59:45 AM UTC-7, Michael wrote:

 So should I grease the collar area of the ChroMo bar if my stem is 
 aluminum since they are two diff't metals?
  
  
 I know the ChroMo is stock on the stock Riv Alba builds. Anyone know if 
 they do it?


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[RBW] Re: San Juan Islands Tour Advice

[redsydude]

 

My wife worked at Friday Harbor Labs one summer and sometimes she would 
hitch a ride on this back to Port Townsend.   
http://www.pugetsoundexpress.com/whale-watching-and-wildlife-tours/san-juan-island-ferry/
 
 This has nothing to do with your Seattle to Anacortes route but others 
have noted the bike riding advantages on the west side of Puget Sound.  

On Monday, May 13, 2013 5:42:32 PM UTC-7, Adam wrote:

 Greetings All,

 Planning a tour this summer for my wife and I up to the San Juan Islands. 
 We have about two weeks to spend on my Hillborne and her Atlantis exploring 
 the area. We live in Berkeley and are planning to take the amtrak up and 
 then ferry and cycle around.

 I know there are a bunch of NorWesters on this list and wanted to ask some 
 advice. We'll likely try to spend at least a day or two in Portland on our 
 way back as well.

 Is the Seattle Amtrak the best station to get off?
 If so, does this look like a good route to get to the ferry? 
 http://goo.gl/maps/uxOqM 
 Any campsites along that route that are recommended?
 Any words of wisdom about the islands themselves (things we must 
 see/avoid)?

 Looking forward to sharing images with the list when we return and also 
 open to any recommendations as they emerge.

 Cheers,
 Adam


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[RBW] Re: A Photo From My Commute

[redsydude]

Beautiful dog (a few photos down).  Here's two of ours, Syd and Dude.  
Aussies, but Dude has some Spaniel stuff goin on.  (Riv content?  None I 
guess, I just dig dogs.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80252840@N06/8705204618/in/photostream/
On Friday, May 3, 2013 6:31:26 AM UTC-7, JimD wrote:

 The past several days have been very summer like here in Northern Calif.
 I'm lucky to have a ~7 mile ride to work and am able to commute most days.
 Here's a photo taken on the bike trail (~1 mile) portion of the route : 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/rasterdogs/8704118372/in/photostream

 -JimD


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[RBW] Re: Budget Riv? Still on the horizon?

[redsydude]

 

I don’t think the original concept of the “budget riv” was in response to 
demands from customers for a cheaper bike than the Sam Hillborne.   I think 
Rivendell, on their own, saw a niche for a new, stealthy, and more useful 
bike for people (like me) who mostly ride an old bike around town doing 
errands and who have to lock that bike up at public racks where it gets 
scratched, dented and ultimately stolen.  If that concept has evolved into 
something like a $1.2K Atlantis, that’s cool to.  But I’m not really 
squandering that much money on gasoline and juice while I hold out for 
Rivendell prices to come down. 

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:08:04 AM UTC-8, Earl Grey wrote:

 Here is how to get a budget Riv now (other than waiting for a used deal, 
 which could also take a while):

 Get yourself a zero % interest credit card. Get a Sam or Betty now before 
 the price goes up (get the unpainted head tube if still available in your 
 size). Set up automatic payments so that you pay off the frame before the 
 interest kicks in. Find a bargain older bike on Craig's List that has a 
 suitable selection of parts. Move the parts over (650B wheels will be a 
 problem, though). Scrounge for the rest (long reach brakes and wheels) here 
 on the RBW list and the iBob list. 

 The $400 you could save in a budget frame is a pittance even on a budget 
 if spread out over a year. Commit to cooking for your family instead of 
 going out to eat, do without cable, stop drinking beer and wine for a year, 
 or juice (it's not that healthy, anyway), whatever. Or ride your new bike 
 everywhere if you are now driving a car. Sell the car, buy a trailer for 
 the kids, or a front mounted and rear mounted child seat. There are ways to 
 save $40 a month if you are working and living in the US. I waited for 
 years before buying a Riv because they seemed so extravagant. Buying the 
 original Sam at $1000 in 2009 felt like a super-splurge bordering on the 
 irresponsible, but I bit the bullet because it was half of the other Rivs. 
 I wish I hadn't waited so long.

 Hope I don't sound preachy, and perhaps your finances are more dire than 
 mine are/were (maxed out credit cards?), but most employed folk in the US 
 can afford a Sam, especially if it can replace car trips some of the time. 
 It's mostly a matter of priorities, and perhaps overcoming fear. 

 Cheers,

 Gernot

 PS: Moving to a cheaper country doesn't hurt. :)

 GH in Thailand without a car with a 2.5 year old and an 8 month old, 
 wife's student loans finally paid off a year ago. 


 On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:36:21 AM UTC+7, murphyjrfk wrote:

 I love all the answers. And the what not.  But I suppose I forgot to 
 mention I don't care if the bike they come out with didn't have lugs was a 
 mixte with gray primer as pain t and not a single decal.  I'm not tall so 
 generally ride a 52 give or take and the thing that drives me crazy is you 
 can't buy a smaller bike with a shallow seat tube.  Even the lht-which I 
 have and like well enough-has a 74 degree seat tube.  And man I love 
 shallow seat tubes. My wife and I have mountains o' student loans and small 
 children so even when there is enough money I can't justify it.  But man do 
 I want the GP sweetness regardless o' what it looks like! 

  this group is the best.


 On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:58:02 AM UTC-5, murphyjrfk wrote:

 Does any one know if the budget riv is still being considered planned 
 anything? I hope so. And sooner rather than later.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Budget Riv? Still on the horizon?

[redsydude]

 

I think Rivendell has been pretty clever to make sure that $1K frames are 
not an uncompromised substitute for $2K frames.   Had the San Marcos been 
designed for long reach side pull tire clearance and the Sam Hillborne been 
designed with road bike angles, they would likely have sold more of them to 
people who ultimately bought the Hilsen.  These kinds of nuances may be 
less available at the touring bike end of the spectrum. 

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:54:38 PM UTC-8, Peter M wrote:

 So a budget hunqapillar, which was the budget bombadil? Even with no 
 diagatube and one color powder coat I doubt you could get the price point 
 below 1k and still have it make sense. I think there would be a market 
 there but it would have to eat into existing hunqapillar sales instead of 
 bringing in new customers and money. 
 On Feb 26, 2013 8:34 PM, cyclotourist cyclot...@gmail.com javascript: 
 wrote:

 Yes!!! But w/ clearance for +50mm tires like Mike mentioned. Could be the 
 perfect bike! 


 On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 9:58 AM, William tape...@gmail.com javascript:
  wrote:

 A San Marcos grade Atlantis.

 So you just want the single TT, single color, canti-Hillborne back?  


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Re: [RBW] Re: Budget Riv? Still on the horizon?

[redsydude]

I think in 2011 their idea was to start with the ca. $1000 Sam Hillborne 
frame/fork, use less expensive cromoly tubing, modify the geometry so you 
could span most PBHs with three sizes and then not paint the bike at all to 
get to $700.  The buyer would spray paint the frame for a few dollars to 
make it look old and increase its theftproofedness.  
On Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:52:32 AM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:

 Materials, labor and transportation costs plus the profit margin added 
 equals the price you pay. Rivs like the Romulus were killer deals but for 
 one reason or another, could not be maintained. Rivs have good paint jobs 
 and you could shave money there by doing something skimpy. Rivs use good 
 quality tubing, and again you could skimp there. Riv could buy in mega 
 volumes which would save per unit costs.  As it happens, it wouldn't 
 reflect the Riv ethos with micro thin paint or clunky tubes or robo-welded 
 joints. The limited market for this type of bike (lugged steel, built for 
 comfort and usefulness) prevents Schwinn-like mass production so no savings 
 there.

 A used riv is your best option for lower price, probably.

 On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript:wrote:




 .. surely there is a way to make a less costly frame, it's all a matter 
 of their focus to really do it.




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[RBW] Re: Budget Riv? Still on the horizon?

[redsydude]

There was a blug or email note about this several months ago.  I'll never 
find it but the gist was that he (Grant) turned the project over to someone 
on his staff to refine or rework the design and when that is finished 
he'll make prototype/production decisions.  Of course, you may be asking 
about progress since that note in which case,  ???.
On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:58:02 AM UTC-8, murphyjrfk wrote:

 Does any one know if the budget riv is still being considered planned 
 anything? I hope so. And sooner rather than later.

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[RBW] Re: What's the trick with Albatross bars?

[redsydude]

I ended up with the albatros bars that came on my wife's betty foy on my 
mb-3.  I didn't have mountain brake levers so I used road brake levers set 
up moustache bar style.   i've never had any problem getting my hands to 
the brake levers in time to stop.  
On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 9:50:43 PM UTC-8, Scot Brooks wrote:

 When I first set up my non-Riv bike, I used a set of the Soma Oxford bars 
 (really close shape-wise to the Albas) on an 8cm stem. I ended up switching 
 them out for a couple of reasons; I felt too upright, and under heavy 
 braking I didn't feel like I was well-braced against the bars to counteract 
 the forces pushing me forward. 

 I'm ready to try a set of Albatross bars on my Sam because I feel like I 
 didn't really give the Oxfords a fair shake. I'm *guessing* the problems 
 I experienced could be solved with a longer stem and maybe some angle to 
 the bars so I have a better angle to brace myself against. 

 Any tips from the experienced would be appreciated, either to confirm my 
 theory or correct it. 


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[RBW] Re: New frame specials up on rivbike

[redsydude]

There's a note on the Hillborne page that says the next batch will go to 55 
cm and a note in yesterdays e-mail that the 55 cm Betty Foy is 650B but is 
there additional information that the 55 cm Sam Hillborne will be 650B?
On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:04:23 AM UTC-8, Mike Schiller wrote:

 saw the note about the Betty's... the Hillbornes are supposed to follow 
 suit and get a 55cm 650B model I read.  Hopefully it will be a single top 
 tube.
 may be time to get a new Riv!

 ~mike


 On Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:45:11 PM UTC-8, Dave wrote:

 Solid deal on a demo Betty foy, among others



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[RBW] Re: Go fast bike: San Marcos?

[redsydude]

I think those bikes are built by the same manufacturer in Taiwan so is the 
quality control on the Sam Hillborne much better than on the SOMA?  
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:06:58 PM UTC-8, Tony Lockhart wrote: 

 Thanks Aaron! I agree, the front brake caliper in the photo is out of 
 tolerance--this is my primary gripe about the San Marcos. My 54cm SM uses a 
 standard (47-57) reach caliper up front and a long reach (55-73) caliper at 
 the back. I'm not sure if this is a design flaw or an operator error. For 
 what it's worth, these little issues are not heinous enough to deter me 
 from liking the bike because it has excellent handling characteristics and 
 is fun to ride.

 Incidentally, I am currently running the proper reach caliper up front 
 because I had this nagging feeling that the long reach caliper would fail.





 On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:29:33 PM UTC-8, Aaron Thomas wrote: 

 Tony, 

 Quick head's up on your brake reach issue. Looks like you're using the 
 wrong brake up front — and that's why the brake pads are high in the slots. 
 Only the 650B sizes of the San Marcos (i.e. 47, 51) use the long reach 
 Tektro 559 (55-73mm). The 700c sizes use standard reach brakes (47-57 mm). 
 That'd be the Tektro R539 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brsbm59.htm. 
 Did you try putting a standard reach brake on the front?

 Aaron

 On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:42:46 AM UTC-8, Tony Lockhart wrote: 

 Ryan,
 I actually have both bikes and have some thoughts to share with you 
 regarding both. Perhaps some of my experiences can help with your decision 
 on which frame to purchase.

 I bought a Sam Hillborne a couple of years back and went through a 
 number of drivetrain and accessory changes. It's been my go fast, 
 commuting, townie, and cyclocross bike so I feel qualified in comparing 
 both bikes. My Sam has had a number of personalities in regards to set up 
 and ride characteristics. I currently have it set up as a townie with 
 fenders, 32mm tires, drop bars, and a basket (*contemplating a dirt 
 drop stem and flat bars with cork grips*). I also have a San Marcos set 
 up as a commuter, club ride bike, and cyclocross bike. My San Marcos has a 
 mix of Shimano parts, 32mm tires, a Velo Orange rack, and drop bars. *To 
 answer your original question, the San Marcos is an excellent choice for a 
 go fast bike.*

 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8n1WhS2qYyg/ULulwQWTKsI/AuA/ifpWp81Ra2w/s1600/DSC00207.JPG

 *San Marcos Criticism #1*

 I'm not sure if this is true for different sizes, but you'll need 
 standard reach brake calipers up front and long reach calipers in the rear 
 if you purchase a 54cm San Marcos. I am not sure if this is true of the 
 other sizes or with any other 54cm San Marcos frames. I am running Tektro 
 R559 brakes on this bike--the fit of the rear calipers is spot on however 
 long reach calipers up front don't seem to fit properly. Have a look at the 
 attached photo and you'll see that the fork was not designed for long reach 
 brakes. Conjecture says that this bike should use standard reach brakes and 
 that the rear brake bridge on my bike was welded too far upwards, 
 necessitating longer reach brakes.


 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hPpChC7_z00/ULul4qOoEJI/AuI/nMYrtVGrYoc/s1600/DSC00209.JPG

 *San Marcos Criticism #2*

 The dropouts on this bike suck compared to the ones on my Sam. As you 
 can see from the photos, the front dropouts originally come with lawyer 
 tabs--I quickly filed those off after acquiring the bike. The rear dropout 
 eyelets are welded too closely to the frame and cause interference when 
 trying to mount a rack or fenders. The welds get in the way and prevent you 
 from mounting accessories in a flush manner. The second photo shows a 
 slight gap between the rack tab and the eyelets because the welds get in 
 the way. Moreover, the decorative part of the Soma dropouts interfere with 
 the quick-release hub skewer--this is not the case with my Sam.


 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U7UDrv1Nts0/ULul_MczA-I/AuQ/gNXYgLA5_9E/s1600/DSC00210.JPG


 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OiPJ0hY_jvk/ULumDgoGmRI/AuY/pDBz7q0BIEU/s1600/DSC00212.JPG


 With all of that said, the San Marcos is an excellent bike and I am very 
 pleased with it. I have no trouble maintaining an average speed of 23mph 
 while on club rides. It is quite comfortable however feels very sporty and 
 agile when compared to the Sam Hillborne. Since you already have a Sam, try 
 to imagine your bike with easier maneuverability, a lighter feel when 
 climbing, and less squirrel*liness*. If you go with mainly Nitto parts, 
 more spokes than less, and wide tires, you'll have no worries about 
 durability if you end up with a San Marcos. 

 I haven't had the chance to test ride a Roadeo, but I imagine that model 
 to be much more suitable for fast riding than the San Marcos. The Roadeo is 
 a gorgeous frame, and would probably be the ONE frame I 

[RBW] Re: Soma San Marcos

[redsydude]

Why are the rear dropouts a joke?  What's wrong with them?  I thought the 
San Marcos lugs and dropouts were from rivendell, the same as they use on 
their other bikes.  
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:26:20 AM UTC-7, Tony Lockhart wrote: 

 Yup, the San Marcos has a bit of a metallic sheen to it under the right 
 light. In looking at online photos, I was under the impression that it 
 would be light, almost powder bluebut in person, it's very turquoise 
 metallic. Looks great!

 I also recently acquired a San Marcos and have been very pleased with it. 
 It's a great bike, and a bit sportier than my Sam. The only gripes I have 
 about it are the dropouts. The ones in the back are a joke and the ones up 
 front have lawyer tabsbut I ground those off after 2 days of ownership. 
 All things considered, GP designed a great bike.

 On Friday, October 12, 2012 3:23:33 PM UTC-7, islaysteve wrote: 

 Congratulations and welcome from another STI user.  Nice bike and I know 
 that you're enjoying it.   The color looks a lot like my Bleriot, but 
 lighter.  Is it also a bit metallic?  I run 8-speed 105 on my bike, with 
 Sugino Alpina double crank.  How about you?  Cheers, Steve 


 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:17:06 PM UTC-4, A CT Cyclist wrote: 

 About 3 weeks ago my 51cm Soma San Marcos build was completed.  Since 
 then I have been riding the San Marcos exclusively for about 325 miles and 
 I am thoroughly enjoying the versatility, fit and comfort. I am really 
 quite smitten and love everything about this bike, the geometry, 32mm 
 tires,650b wheels, and all the components that I selected. Robins egg blue 
 and shiny silver, ready for to go anytime, anywhere. 

 https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ih56PFVTzlk/UHdtxjmz1fI/AWI/A0Q1CbQLNwE/s1600/Soma+San+Marcos+015.JPG

 I got back into riding on regular basis about 3 years ago, purchasing a 
 carbon fiber Cannondale Synapse with drop bars. I hadn't ridden a bicycle 
 with drop bars since I was a teenager. Previous to the Cannondale I had 
 been riding hybrids, mountain bikes and a Rans Crankfoward.  I chose the 
 Synapse because it was the most comfortable of all the drop bar bikes that 
 I tried and I tried the usual bike shop brands, Trek, Speacialized, 
 Bianchi, etc. The shop where I bought the bike fitted me to the bike using 
 a the fit systems, I don't remember which one and all and all they did a 
 pretty good job. My only complaint, is the length at which they cut the 
 steerer tube without consulting me. Consequently I had to have a stem 
 extender installed. I have spent the past 3 years riding and learning what 
 kind of a cyclist I am. I have gone full circle from riding without foot 
 retention to riding clipless and back to platform pedals. 




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[RBW] Re: New budget Riv in Summer 2013?

[redsydude]

Throughout this 2011 interview and Q/A are comments about some of the 
original conceptions for this bike.
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell
 

On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:08:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Beebe wrote:

 I remember reading on the blug about this frame about year ago(?) but 
 can't find the post.Definitely intriguing whenever a new model is in 
 the pipeline.   It's fun to watch the design process unfold and I'm glad 
 Riv shares the process in the RR and blug to the extent they do.

  This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
  produce a tig welded frame. 


 I'm pretty sure the blug post said it wouldn't be tigged-if it's 
 Rivendell it must have lugs.. which makes pricing tough, but they won't 
 veer from lugs.



 On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:44:05 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote: 

 On Sep 2, 9:13 am, clampe1...@cox.net clampe1...@cox.net wrote: 
   there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013! 

 This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
 produce a tig welded frame. Wasn't there mention a while back of Keven 
 and Dave designing a bike? I think so. 

 There have been times when I've lusted for a Riv touring frame and 
 then other times when I've that my LHT could handle all my bike needs-- 
 touring, commuting, randonneuring and just riding. 

 mike 



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[RBW] Re: WTB: 64cm Rambouillet

[redsydude]

There is a blue one for sale on Seattle craigslist right now.

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:36:31 PM UTC-7, Kieran J wrote:

 Hey Y'alls,
  
 I'm looking for a 64cm Ram frameset.
  
 Colour-wise, I'd prefer orange, blue, green, in order of preference. Of 
 course, that's only if you have one each for me to choose from ...
  
 Extra fantastic would be one with those mid-fork eyelets for a rack. 
  
 Let me know if you are thinking of offering yours up!
  
 Peace,
  
 Kieran in Toronto, Canada 


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[RBW] craigslist hampsten strada bianca

[redsydude]

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/3140990864.html
 
I don't know anything about this bike, its rivendelledness or the seller 
but I stumbled upon this ad while searching for a cheap bike for a friend 
and recalled that it was coveted by someone in this group.  

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[RBW] FS: 1983 58 cm Specialized Expedition $350.

[redsydude]

58 cm Specialized Expedition touring frame, fork, headset, seat post
and cantilever brakes for $350. The frame has scratches and a bent
chain hanger but is straight and sound with no dents.  I live in
Portland, OR on the weekend and Olympia, WA during the work week so
can accommodate local pick-up in either city.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80252840@N06/sets/72157630088609956/

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Just Ride

[redsydude]

... I am in no way affiliated with the bicycle industry other than as
a reformed racer and someone who now rides  for fun and utility and
who works on Bike Trains and Ride to School programs, but since I'm
seen on a bike often, there's a pre-supposition that I know 

This made me recall an interview with Fred Couples, years ago, where
he mentioned that his wife was taking golf lessons from a local club
pro.  The interviewer asked why Fred didn't giver her lessons himself
and he said something like, 'yeah, you know, I don't really know that
much about the golf swing'.

On May 17, 8:30 am, Frank pguil...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jim,

 Nice to hear your perspective as a shop owner. Your name and Hiawatha came
 up in a conversation last night at a ball field here in Seattle during a
 discussion with one of the fathers of a boy on my son's team, who asked me
 about getting a good road bike. I am in no way affiliated with the
 bicycle industry other than as a reformed racer and someone who now rides
 for fun and utility and who works on Bike Trains and Ride to School
 programs, but since I'm seen on a bike often, there's a pre-supposition
 that I know.

 I ordered 6 copies of Just Ride to hand out precisely because I don't
 know, and they arrived yesterday afternoon, so I was fortunate enough to
 have one on hand at the ball yard. I listened for a bit, and then simply
 handed the book over and said Keep it and pass it on if you find it
 useful, but most of what you need to think about is in here.

 I admit that I was thrilled to have a way to shorten the typical discussion
 I end up having, and to matador the whole thing off to Grant via the book;
 there's something validating when someone take the time to really make a
 thing, and in book format, Grant's advice carries more weight than if I
 were to say many of the same things. He was intrigued by the book, and I'm
 confident that while it might dovetail with his notions, it will certainly
 reduce the probability of him ending up on a Madone, and that's a good
 thing.

 And back to Hiawatha. The gentlemen with whom I was speaking went to
 college in Minneapolis, and told me in passing that where he came from you
 couldn't ride at all in the winter or you'd die. I told him about your
 shop, your blog, and suggested that in the ensuing 20 years the industry
 had evolved and now offered sensible alternatives to Death by Bike in
 Minneapolis.

 One last thing. Grant was very complimentary of the Surly LHT in his talk
 in Seattle, holding it up as an example of a sound, sensible, and useful
 bicycle. I know you're a dealer, and thought I'd mention that I bought a 42
 cm complete for my then 8-year old (bit of a stretch then), which he rides
 to school every day with a Burley Cargo trailer hauling a trumpet case,
 messenger bag, rain gear, and whatever else need to go to school each day.
 The bike has been phenomenal, and he's now nearly 12 and still on the same
 frame with no trouble. Amortized over the life of the bike, and guessing
 that he'll get another 2 years out of it with a stem change, it was a great
 deal. It's been knocked over, banged around, dropped in just about every
 way possible, and it's still going strong. That thing is a tank, and an
 excellent option for any mature kid who likes to ride and does.

 On Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:09:55 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
 wrote:





  Just Ride was on my mind yesterday when I tried to help a woman decide on
  her first nice bike. She wants a sporty-ish bike for Burley-pulling and it
  would be nice if it had a rack. Easy enough. But she's also athletic and
  aspires to the racer archetype. I should add that she's the type of woman
  that most men would notice in any crowd, which means that various bike
  dudes have tried to help her with all sorts of advice. All the usual
  suspects were present: the necessity and efficiency of clipless pedals, the
  magical properties of carbon, and the (baffling-to-me) popularity of
  time-trial bikes, none of which are necessary, or even desirable, in a bike
  for daily errands and family rides. Anyway, she was clearly struggling with
  the perceived compromises between making a bike useful and making a bike
  fast (or at least light/expensive enough to impress the racer wannabe
  crowd). I thought to myself: this would be a lot easier if she could drop
  the racer notions and stop hanging out with guys who read Bicycling
  Magazine as a comprehensive source of cycling wisdom.

  On Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:15:32 AM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
  wrote:

  Maybe there should be a spoiler alert here - be advised that I will be
  discussing various aspects of the new book, so navigate away from this page
  if you prefer the content of the book to be a complete surprise.

  I finished reading the book tonight, which if I can summarize in a line,
  is about all the good things about bikes that appear only when you toss
  racer prejudices and attitudes out 

[RBW] Re: Cheap tallish canti-ROM

[redsydude]

There is also a 66 cm rambouillet frame and fork on Portland (OR)
craigslist for $1100.

On Jun 28, 11:01 am, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Riv's measurements are C-T, so this would be the 63 cm. Let's say the 
 difference between C-C and C-T were 1.5 cm. (That's just an estimate without 
 actually looking at a frame).



  



 63 cm C-T would become 61.5 cm C-C, which would be 24.2 after converting. So 
 even if I'm wrong on the 1.5 cm part, that's likely the size.



  



  -Original Message-
 From: William
 Sent: Jun 28, 2011 10:42 AM
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Subject: [RBW] Cheap tallish canti-ROM
 No connection to me, accept that I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it were a 
 little smaller.  Search craigslist Eureka for Rivendell Romulus and you'll 
 find a canti-Rom complete bike for $1000.  The seller says it's 24 c-to-c, 
 making it a 62cm? 



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[RBW] Re: Double Top Tube Sam Hillborne

[redsydude]

Perhaps Rivendell beefed up the Sam Hillborne this year because they
believed they would have the AMOS to sell to lighter customers.  I
wish they could take that project back from SOMA and actually build a
$1000 frame/fork positioned between the Roadeo and AHH.

On Jun 6, 5:00 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 19:55 -0400, William Pustow wrote:

  and you are right. It's a personal choice. When I see them, I see
  a cheap Asian bike that's meant to handle an additional 150 pounds of
  sugar cain or chickens, or whatever. For the posters weighing 200++
  pounds, it's probably a good choice.

 At 200+ pounds I do very nicely on an 8/5/8 standard diameter tubing
 frame with but a single top tube.  Now maybe for a 300 pound load, or
 for someone who rides heavy or thrashes around a lot, they might be an
 answer to a prayer.  I can't imagine ever wanting one myself.

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[RBW] Re: Simple weekend project.

[redsydude]

Could you measure and report the mid top tube standover of your
simpleone explicitly?  The quickbeam chart says 83 and 85 cm standover
for the 58 and 60 cm bikes respectively. In one of the rivendell
messages they said PBH minus 23 or 25 cm for the simpleone.  That
would put you (and me) on a 60 cm bike. Since the simpleone isn't
expanded geometry, I was planning to go as big as possible but
something doesn't quite add up.

Thanks,
Tom

On May 29, 8:54 pm, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
 ok - she is built:  my 58cm DosSimple:

 http://salamander.net/stage/SimpleOne/(picture names starting with built).

 first impressions:
 
 - rides like glass.  even more than the cantiRom or Sam Hillborne I have.
 - these wheels feels as stiff as the 36 hole Deore XT Mavic 765 on my Sam, 
 but feel as light and  accelerate as easily as the 20 spoke aero Neuvation 
 wheels on my Rom.
 - even without racks this one feels extra rigid and comfy both at the same 
 time, compared to my others.
 - doesn't want to stop.  the momentum on flat ground is just insane, and even 
 going up hill it feels easy.
 - even more eager than the Rom, totally absent the laid back sedate glide 
 feel of the Sam.
 - i love the noise of the freewheel.  i feel 12 again.
 - much less standover than i expected in a 58cm.  i've got like.. .5 cm, 
 maybe in keens, and none barefoot (pbh of 84.5).
 - a taller, narrower ride than i expected, partly due to the 10cm DD stem and 
 45cm rando bars... i'll probably get used to it, but i'd sure love if these 
 were a couple cm wider on the flats.  the flared drops, however, are just 
 about perfect, and the Sram Road levers' flare nicely meets that of the rando 
 bars.
 - it feels like i'm up a lot higher than on the 56 Sam w bullmose or 59 Rom w 
 7cm lugged + m-bars, though balancing on the Simple is easier (on Mara 
 Racer 35s, compared to the Sam with Mara Sup 40s and the Rom with Mara Racer 
 30s).
 - 38 x 16 gearing won't be too easy, which i was concerned about... wonder 
 how the long final hill in my commute is going to be - don't think i'll have 
 to change rings, but...
 - installing the brakes and cables this time was a lot easier, now that i've 
 done it wrong on at least two other bikes.  
 - a 4th hand makes adjusting the straddle cable trivial.
 - i should have sprung for a WI chainring lockring tool before starting the 
 build. the alternative 5-pin Park one they recommend really isn't ideal.
 - the Tektro CR720 brake pads hit the inside of the fork/chainstays when 
 straddle is released.  that's the way Rivendell build my Sam, it turns out, 
 with these same brakes, so i guess that's ok.
 - i'm suddenly concerned that my other two Rivendells aren't going to get 
 much love this summer.

 still to install (except for bar tape, this is all pending arrival in the 
 mail):
 ---
 - BG clips, ss
 - Tubus Logo, ti
 - lights
 - orange newbaums and shellac
 - small right side drop bar end mirror
 - and i'll probably add a mini-front rack as well... th

 - i may abandon these bars for m-bars.  

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[RBW] Re: Anyone else have trouble measuring their PBH?

[redsydude]

If you are buying an expanded frame model like the Sam Hillborne you
don't have to be so accurate because each frame size fits a wide range
of PBHs. I think the 52 cm Sam Hillborne fits 78PBH84.

On Apr 24, 6:16 am, Mojo gjtra...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Yes, pull up with force and off to the side. The highest value of
 several attempts will be the closest to your true PBH. You can't
 measure too high.

 On Apr 23, 7:16 pm, Jay LePree lep...@optonline.net wrote:



  Hi all:

  I am thinking of purchasing a new Rivendell for the wider tires tires
  (currently ride a Creamsicle Rambouillet (size 54 cm)).  When I try
  to pull up my sticks that hold the tape measure, my fine assistant
  gets values of around 75 to 76 cm.  However, I can stand over my
  Rambouillet as outfitted and still bend slightly at the knees (still
  in stocking feet spread 10 inches apart), and the height of the top
  tube from the floor is approximately 80 cm, therefore I know my PBH is
  at least 80 cm, and probably slightly higher as I can still bend my
  knees when straddling the top tube.  (I am 5 foot 6 inches tall, and a
  PBH of 80 cm is consistent with Rivendell literature.)

  In the grand scheme of things, a very minor problem to have, but it
  does make me wonder why I cannot seem to pull up on my paint sticks to
  get a more accurate measurement.

  Jay
  Demarest, NJ- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: New Simple One frame

[redsydude]

In a post to this forum a few weeks ago, Grant Peterson said that he
got this bike to inspect the paint and discovered that the rear brake
bridge on it won't work with side-pulls.  That's what drove the change
to cantilever brakes.

On Apr 19, 9:55 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote:
 My guess is that the photo is of the most recent prototype, and that
 the production ones will still have canti braze-ons. If the frame in
 the photo is your size, perhaps you should call Riv and offer to buy
 it? :)

 Gernot

 On Apr 20, 10:34 am, charlie charles_v...@hotmail.com wrote:



  It appears the website shows a new green Simple One without Canti
  bosses making it suitable for center/side pull brakes. I prefer this
  but am curious, I thought there was a change to canti'sanyone know
  which brake style for sure? I'm real tempted to order one as I have
  many parts on an old frame that needs replacing with something safer.- Hide 
  quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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