[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Will M]

Minh, I have a 62cm QB with the brazed-on mid-fork rack mounts and a Mark's 
Rack; everything you've described is exactly what I've encountered with a 
zip-tied Wald 139.  I moved the Wald 139 to a Riv/Nitto Two-Strut Top Rack 
on my 1990s Cannondale adventure touring bike (with fork rake/trail 
geometry for heavy front loads) and wow what a difference.  Case of beer? 
 No problem.  (Picture 
.)
  
That car battery and watermelon would be easy.  Not  so on the QB. I've 
tried a VO Porteur rack and it didn't improve the "shimmy feeling" you 
described.  My view (as others have commented) is that what you've got is 
about as good as it gets on a QB.  Handsome bike pictured there on Pier 
25!  --Will M, NYC 

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 9:44:12 PM UTC-4 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:

> hope no one minds me adding a "data point" so late in the game, thread's 
> relevancy popped up on this monthly errand
>
> 4 miles round trip, unavoidable curb drops and potholes included, done 
> frequently for two years now with wobbles but no breaking/braking
>
> in the pic it's a smaller wald basket hose clamped on a nitto rack with 
> whateva steel m5 bolts to a surly lht fork, old tube bøngee pro move
> ~*~ 30lb dog food bag + lock + plastic bag to fill with goumies back there 
> ~*~
>
> whole bike is goofy af with the surly fork anyway so I don't notice the 
> noticeable rack flex :)
>
> also have a 650b rando bike bechested by fabiccio, dunno if the dog food 
> bag would fit in it but a 30lb dumbbell piloted by this slightly heavier 
> dumbbell could survive thanks to the big ol velcro straps on the bars
>
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 3:04:07 PM UTC-5 John P. in SF wrote:
>
>> Hi Minh
>>
>> First thing I would do is move the basket so that it rests against the 
>> tombstone of the rack. It looks from your picture that you have the basket 
>> an inch or two forward - this is problematic. Moving the basket to rest 
>> against the tombstone will minimize flex in your rack and also, in general, 
>> keeping the load in the basket close to the headtube helps to keep things 
>> stable. It may fix your problem overall.
>>
>> The basket does not need to be rigidly attached to the rack. I have often 
>> employed a used up road tube to tie the basket to the rack - tie a square 
>> knot in one corner, wrap the tube around the rack and the basket with a 
>> fair amount of tension on the tube, and then another square knot on the 
>> other end. A simple knot will suffice for the end also if you tuck the end 
>> of the tube between the basket and the rack to keep the knot from being 
>> undone. This is reliable and repeatable. I can pick up my bikes by the 
>> basket when I do this. Old tubes make nice tie downs, in my experience.
>>
>> Cheers, John P. in SF
>>
>> OT - if someone in the SF bay area wants to part with a Clem L 59 
>> frameset we may be able to strike a deal. plz reply off list.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 9:00:22 AM UTC-7 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[John P. in SF]

Hi Minh

First thing I would do is move the basket so that it rests against the 
tombstone of the rack. It looks from your picture that you have the basket 
an inch or two forward - this is problematic. Moving the basket to rest 
against the tombstone will minimize flex in your rack and also, in general, 
keeping the load in the basket close to the headtube helps to keep things 
stable. It may fix your problem overall.

The basket does not need to be rigidly attached to the rack. I have often 
employed a used up road tube to tie the basket to the rack - tie a square 
knot in one corner, wrap the tube around the rack and the basket with a 
fair amount of tension on the tube, and then another square knot on the 
other end. A simple knot will suffice for the end also if you tuck the end 
of the tube between the basket and the rack to keep the knot from being 
undone. This is reliable and repeatable. I can pick up my bikes by the 
basket when I do this. Old tubes make nice tie downs, in my experience.

Cheers, John P. in SF

OT - if someone in the SF bay area wants to part with a Clem L 59 frameset 
we may be able to strike a deal. plz reply off list.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 9:00:22 AM UTC-7 Minh wrote:

> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i 
> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
> other options.  
>
> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>
> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Christine Rose]

Yeah, mine is from after the recall, so it came with the beefier bolts or 
whatever they changed. Thanks for looking out though!

On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 1:05:00 PM UTC-4 JAS wrote:

> I checked out the Surly 8-pack rack after reading your description and 
> noticed the Safety Recall.  Hope you saw it too...
>
> https://surlybikes.com/surly-8-24-pack-rack-recall 
>
> --Joyce
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-7 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro 
>> straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and 
>> mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very 
>> expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the 
>> steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 
>> 10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo 
>> Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier 
>> load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That 
>> setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks 
>> of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday 
>> utility and touring, this works very well.
>> Christine,
>> Space Coast of Florida
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Mackenzy Albright]

I have generally build bikes around a porteur style rack. Velo Orange, 
Memento Cycles, Pass and Tow, etc. with a large wald basket. But those were 
on low trail bikes. 

For my new Clem build I am running a front handlebar bag, rear rack with 
panniers, and strapping camping gear (tent, foamy, sleeping bag) to the 
rear rack. Fab's chests are nice, but they sure are expensive. 

I'd recommend checking out some canadian made brands as they are probably 
much cheaper and more available. 

https://www.atwateratelier.com/  - the Marauder is their bar bag. 

https://mementocycles.com/ - canadian made pass and tow style rack. They 
seem like a great bang for the buck.  

On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 11:05:00 AM UTC-6 JAS wrote:

> I checked out the Surly 8-pack rack after reading your description and 
> noticed the Safety Recall.  Hope you saw it too...
>
> https://surlybikes.com/surly-8-24-pack-rack-recall 
>
> --Joyce
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-7 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro 
>> straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and 
>> mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very 
>> expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the 
>> steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 
>> 10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo 
>> Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier 
>> load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That 
>> setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks 
>> of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday 
>> utility and touring, this works very well.
>> Christine,
>> Space Coast of Florida
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Wally Estrella]

there was some redesign on the stay clamps or something like that.  IIRC 
Surly offered replacements up for free.  Most likely any one purchased 
today would have the new design, if not Surly should still be offering the 
replacement items.



On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 1:05:00 PM UTC-4 JAS wrote:

> I checked out the Surly 8-pack rack after reading your description and 
> noticed the Safety Recall.  Hope you saw it too...
>
> https://surlybikes.com/surly-8-24-pack-rack-recall 
>
> --Joyce
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-7 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro 
>> straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and 
>> mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very 
>> expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the 
>> steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 
>> 10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo 
>> Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier 
>> load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That 
>> setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks 
>> of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday 
>> utility and touring, this works very well.
>> Christine,
>> Space Coast of Florida
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[JAS]

I checked out the Surly 8-pack rack after reading your description and 
noticed the Safety Recall.  Hope you saw it too...

https://surlybikes.com/surly-8-24-pack-rack-recall 

--Joyce
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-7 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:

> I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro 
> straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and 
> mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very 
> expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the 
> steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 
> 10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo 
> Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier 
> load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That 
> setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks 
> of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday 
> utility and touring, this works very well.
> Christine,
> Space Coast of Florida
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>
>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i 
>> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>> other options.  
>>
>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>
>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Christine Rose]

I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro 
straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and 
mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very 
expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the 
steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 
10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo 
Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier 
load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That 
setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks 
of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday 
utility and touring, this works very well.
Christine,
Space Coast of Florida

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:

> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i 
> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
> other options.  
>
> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>
> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Philip Williamson]

Hi Minh,
I read all the thoughtful responses, and they brought up ideas I hadn’t 
considered. My suspicion on the cause of any shimmy is the stacked flex 
points in the handlebar to load system. 

Your setup looks fine and I think a basket is the height of chic. If you 
have a basket, you don’t need a bag, right? I do like small bags attached 
to the outside of the basket. That’s a nice way to “modern” up your setup. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca_EscbLkTC/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

My Quickbeam doesn’t shimmy with a front load, but I’ve got a steel Salsa 
stem, with steel Sycip Java Boy bars, previously (15+) years with WTB 
flared drops. The basket is welded to the rack, which attaches to the canti 
posts and fork crown, and previously (14+ years) I used hose clamps. Solid 
either way. 

Philip
Sonoma County, Calif

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 12:21:10 PM UTC-7 Minh wrote:

> hey all thanks for comments.  i guess part of me asking is that this 
> classic combo does feel a little 'old fashioned', but it is super versatile 
> and the shopsack is like a perfect fit for the basket.   i just pass all 
> these cool looking front bag options!
>
> i may be exaggerating a little bit the shimmy and wobble, its hard to nail 
> down but sometimes it feels like the load will start shifting and 
> osciliating, its never out of control but it does make me sit-up and pay 
> attention--i can feel 'something'.  John, makes a good point, this bike 
> does have pretty serious front wheel flop, so it could be that i'm feeling 
> too.
>
>  the basket is held on at the moment with a mix of zipties and straps, but 
> maybe i can stiffen things up with some cross support?  How are people 
> attaching the baskets? 
>
> Re: the perilous part, i know that Riv/Nitto are very conservtive with 
> both weight, and warnings about using the racks as support for a handlebar 
> bag instead of a static load.  and i am as nuts as all of you, when i had a 
> platrack on this setup i carried a car batttery and watermelon in my 139 
> basket!  
>
> Stephen, which front rack are you using for the 139?  
>
> Again thanks for all the thoughts, will try to be more aware of weight vs 
> wobble feel.  i've been riding to work so its pretty much the same load, 
> but will focus on it more!  
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 11:52:15 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> I also think your setup looks good Minh, I'm a big fan of the shop sack & 
>> 137 combo, however I use the nitto m1 rack. In my experience i think there 
>> is always going to be some degree of flex when you have a rack 
>> combined with swept back bars and a quill stem, especially as your load 
>> weight goes up. I think of it as compounding flex points: a little in the 
>> rack struts, a little in the quill length, and a little in the bar. It gets 
>> more noticeable as each of these lengths get longer. I have a basket setup 
>> on my ram with albastache bars and a really short 50mm technomic and the 
>> flex isn't noticeable unless im carrying a lot of weight. 
>>
>> I also have an appaloosa set up with a large basket rack and a 139. I 
>> initially ran losco's with an 11cm stem, which felt really noodly with any 
>> decent weight in it, switched to the riv bull moose and it stiffened up 
>> considerably. 
>>
>> I've also tried the carradice/bxb/fabs style bag up front and I'd say it 
>> reduces wobble. It may effect handling in other ways but it seems to me to 
>> be less flexy since you are torquing the front load directly through the 
>> handlebars instead of handlebars -> stem -> steer tube/fork -> rack. 
>> however, I still tend to prefer the shopsack basket combo because I like to 
>> just pick up the bag and go whenever I park the bike.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I just read your post again and maybe this isn't really addressing the 
>> issue, if its more a problem of the bike shimmying at higher speeds. I've 
>> experienced that on some lighter tubed bikes, i never really had a solution 
>> beyond carrying less weight. 
>> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 10:45:57 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>>> Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted 
>>> brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on 
>>> several bikes and now its all I use. Steve
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:27 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good 
 as it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is 
 on 
 the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there

 So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and 
 the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm 
 frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame 
 Geometry Archive Info 
  ) HTA is 72.5°, 
 rake 

Re: [RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Minh]

hey all thanks for comments.  i guess part of me asking is that this 
classic combo does feel a little 'old fashioned', but it is super versatile 
and the shopsack is like a perfect fit for the basket.   i just pass all 
these cool looking front bag options!

i may be exaggerating a little bit the shimmy and wobble, its hard to nail 
down but sometimes it feels like the load will start shifting and 
osciliating, its never out of control but it does make me sit-up and pay 
attention--i can feel 'something'.  John, makes a good point, this bike 
does have pretty serious front wheel flop, so it could be that i'm feeling 
too.

 the basket is held on at the moment with a mix of zipties and straps, but 
maybe i can stiffen things up with some cross support?  How are people 
attaching the baskets? 

Re: the perilous part, i know that Riv/Nitto are very conservtive with both 
weight, and warnings about using the racks as support for a handlebar bag 
instead of a static load.  and i am as nuts as all of you, when i had a 
platrack on this setup i carried a car batttery and watermelon in my 139 
basket!  

Stephen, which front rack are you using for the 139?  

Again thanks for all the thoughts, will try to be more aware of weight vs 
wobble feel.  i've been riding to work so its pretty much the same load, 
but will focus on it more!  


On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 11:52:15 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> I also think your setup looks good Minh, I'm a big fan of the shop sack & 
> 137 combo, however I use the nitto m1 rack. In my experience i think there 
> is always going to be some degree of flex when you have a rack 
> combined with swept back bars and a quill stem, especially as your load 
> weight goes up. I think of it as compounding flex points: a little in the 
> rack struts, a little in the quill length, and a little in the bar. It gets 
> more noticeable as each of these lengths get longer. I have a basket setup 
> on my ram with albastache bars and a really short 50mm technomic and the 
> flex isn't noticeable unless im carrying a lot of weight. 
>
> I also have an appaloosa set up with a large basket rack and a 139. I 
> initially ran losco's with an 11cm stem, which felt really noodly with any 
> decent weight in it, switched to the riv bull moose and it stiffened up 
> considerably. 
>
> I've also tried the carradice/bxb/fabs style bag up front and I'd say it 
> reduces wobble. It may effect handling in other ways but it seems to me to 
> be less flexy since you are torquing the front load directly through the 
> handlebars instead of handlebars -> stem -> steer tube/fork -> rack. 
> however, I still tend to prefer the shopsack basket combo because I like to 
> just pick up the bag and go whenever I park the bike.
>
> ...
>
> I just read your post again and maybe this isn't really addressing the 
> issue, if its more a problem of the bike shimmying at higher speeds. I've 
> experienced that on some lighter tubed bikes, i never really had a solution 
> beyond carrying less weight. 
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 10:45:57 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted 
>> brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on 
>> several bikes and now its all I use. Steve
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:27 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as 
>>> it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on 
>>> the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there
>>>
>>> So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and 
>>> the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm 
>>> frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame 
>>> Geometry Archive Info 
>>>  ) HTA is 72.5°, 
>>> rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and 18mm flop.  The 
>>> trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front weight, is a 
>>> likely cause of the shimmy.
>>>
>>> Suggestions
>>> Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front 
>>> weight, and balance the load better
>>>
>>> Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the 
>>> bottom.  
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>>
 hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
 i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
 shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I 
 know 
 this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
 other options.  

 I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
  But i also feel like this is how i've always 

Re: [RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Stephen]

I also think your setup looks good Minh, I'm a big fan of the shop sack & 
137 combo, however I use the nitto m1 rack. In my experience i think there 
is always going to be some degree of flex when you have a rack 
combined with swept back bars and a quill stem, especially as your load 
weight goes up. I think of it as compounding flex points: a little in the 
rack struts, a little in the quill length, and a little in the bar. It gets 
more noticeable as each of these lengths get longer. I have a basket setup 
on my ram with albastache bars and a really short 50mm technomic and the 
flex isn't noticeable unless im carrying a lot of weight. 

I also have an appaloosa set up with a large basket rack and a 139. I 
initially ran losco's with an 11cm stem, which felt really noodly with any 
decent weight in it, switched to the riv bull moose and it stiffened up 
considerably. 

I've also tried the carradice/bxb/fabs style bag up front and I'd say it 
reduces wobble. It may effect handling in other ways but it seems to me to 
be less flexy since you are torquing the front load directly through the 
handlebars instead of handlebars -> stem -> steer tube/fork -> rack. 
however, I still tend to prefer the shopsack basket combo because I like to 
just pick up the bag and go whenever I park the bike.

...

I just read your post again and maybe this isn't really addressing the 
issue, if its more a problem of the bike shimmying at higher speeds. I've 
experienced that on some lighter tubed bikes, i never really had a solution 
beyond carrying less weight. 
On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 10:45:57 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted 
> brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on 
> several bikes and now its all I use. Steve
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:27 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as 
>> it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on 
>> the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there
>>
>> So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and 
>> the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm 
>> frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame 
>> Geometry Archive Info 
>>  ) HTA is 72.5°, 
>> rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and 18mm flop.  The 
>> trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front weight, is a 
>> likely cause of the shimmy.
>>
>> Suggestions
>> Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front 
>> weight, and balance the load better
>>
>> Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the 
>> bottom.  
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ 
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c2df889c-c289-4f8c-9dad-f90c99b96173n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Patch T]

Wally, I love the set-up you've got there, especially up front. *I wish I 
was a little bit taller...*

Minh, I've owned a QB for 5 or 6 years. I recently traded my Orange 54 for 
a better-fitting, but less-fast ;) Silver 56. 

The 54 always had a front basket on a small Campee rack. I camped and 
erranded a lot on this bike, plenty of long rides in-between - it was my 
only bike for some time. I never experienced wobble nor shimmy, and really 
pushed the limits on load weight - in fact, the fork crown stay of the rack 
broke (not at the weld, mind you) on a mostly off-road 2-nighter around the 
Santa Cruz Mountains in CA, catastrophe gratefully/luckily avoided. It was 
fixed by listmember David Parsons. Since then, I've been much more careful 
with how much weight I add on that rack. Anyway, steering generally always 
felt totally great.

The 56 is more of a French fit, and it currently holds a Swift rando bag. 
It's fendered, and its main purpose is a wet-conditions SS road/rando bike. 
I have a commuter now that does the errand haul with a sturdier rack, so 
the QB's load stays light; only gets what I need for a day's ride. I'm 
currently in the middle of a bike-parts-switch-up, and it may end up 
getting moustache bars (I was recently surprised to learn I love them), and 
an Erlen rack + small Fabio out back. I've never ridden with rear weight on 
the QB, and would like to try it out, as others have recommended. I have 
tried rear weight on various other bikes, most recently a '92 XO-1, and 
have never liked the feel. 

The other main thing to consider with a large handlebar bag, besides your 
bar width as Joe pointed out, is how high your bars are in relation to you 
front wheel, and how/if the bag is supported. Yours looks fine in the 
photo, but something to consider. Once a week or so I try to commute 33 
miles each way to work on the XO-1. I use the small Fabio's, supported by a 
homemade "Pec-Dec". It holds just my laptop, charger, clothes, snacks, 
journal, few toiletries, other small incidentals (read: junk). It could fit 
more, and even with weight, the bag feels sturdy, the steering different 
but comfortable, smooth, responsive. But the bag, even with the support, 
just barely clears enough when stuffed with stuff. I need longer struts.

Anyway, hope that's all helpful.

Patch
NYC

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 10:45:57 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted 
> brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on 
> several bikes and now its all I use. Steve
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:27 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as 
>> it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on 
>> the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there
>>
>> So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and 
>> the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm 
>> frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame 
>> Geometry Archive Info 
>>  ) HTA is 72.5°, 
>> rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and 18mm flop.  The 
>> trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front weight, is a 
>> likely cause of the shimmy.
>>
>> Suggestions
>> Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front 
>> weight, and balance the load better
>>
>> Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the 
>> bottom.  
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ 
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Steven Sweedler]

Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted
brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on
several bikes and now its all I use. Steve

On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:27 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as
> it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on
> the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there
>
> So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and
> the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm
> frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame
> Geometry Archive Info  )
> HTA is 72.5°, rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and
> 18mm flop.  The trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front
> weight, is a likely cause of the shimmy.
>
> Suggestions
> Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front
> weight, and balance the load better
>
> Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the bottom.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>
>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i
>> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy
>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know
>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider
>> other options.
>>
>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.
>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how
>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For
>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry
>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>
>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried
>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts,
>> opinions, philosophy on this!
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c2df889c-c289-4f8c-9dad-f90c99b96173n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Den John]

Hey all,

I've seen a few Carradice/Fabio's chest setups with the bag lowered from 
the flat section of the drop bars. Seems like you need to then strap the 
lower part of the bag to a front rack. Not sure exactly how this is done - 
you can sort of see it here: 
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/rivendell-atlantis-ultraromance/
If anyone's got any better pictures or explanations about how to do this 
I'd be grateful to know.

A Carradice bag on a set of flat bars worked pretty well for me on a two 
day trip in the German Black Forest mountains - I strapped the pag up well 
with long Voilé straps to keep it from interfering with the brake cables.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 16:28:17 UTC+2 Bones wrote:

> Perilous? Nonsense! I think your setup is perfect, assuming you are not 
> carting around bowling balls. I feel no difference in handling from 0-10lb 
> or so up front. I do not experience any wobble or shimmy; I am not sure if 
> your P clamps are playing a part in that or not (thankfully mine has a 
> place to mount). I use this for work every day and only carry some extra 
> scrubs and lunch and a few other small items. I can easily throw 12 beers 
> in on the way home too with no issue. I have a basket rack doing nothing 
> right now and I sometimes think about putting that on the front but I 
> really don't need it.
>
> Bones
>
> [image: Simpleone.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:08:28 AM UTC-4 wallye...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/CbVfD1Hu9xN/
>>
>> I've had 25# box of kitty litter on the rear.  Luckily it's only a mile 
>> home.
>>
>> I'm currently running Nitto Dirt Drops RM-013, 52 w/ either a small or 
>> medium BXB Goldback.  With plenty of clearance for my big mitts between the 
>> side pockets and brake levers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

>From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as it 
can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on the 
rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there

So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and the 
high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm 
frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame Geometry 
Archive Info  ) HTA is 
72.5°, rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and 18mm 
flop.  The trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front 
weight, is a likely cause of the shimmy.

Suggestions
Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front 
weight, and balance the load better

Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the bottom.  

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ 

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:

> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i 
> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
> other options.  
>
> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>
> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>

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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Wally Estrella]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbVfD1Hu9xN/

I've had 25# box of kitty litter on the rear.  Luckily it's only a mile 
home.

I'm currently running Nitto Dirt Drops RM-013, 52 w/ either a small or 
medium BXB Goldback.  With plenty of clearance for my big mitts between the 
side pockets and brake levers.






On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:

> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i 
> carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
> other options.  
>
> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>
> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>

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