Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Beth, I ran a shop for ten years. Not bemoaning others' co-op of Riv-esqueness, it's much better a paradigm for the run of the mill cyclist. It was the non-bikers (MBAs) in the big outfits escalating the demands on the dealers to the point of earmarking all your future open to buy (from other vendors) money with programed product deliveries months down the calendar. It was Occupy Bike Shop by sales reps. I got tired of them thinking I would benefit from being their dealer in my market when it was actually their brand that benefitted from our established level of customer care, qualification of needs and attention to doing things right. That business model needed to be upset and I gladly bought my first post employee-deal bike from Grant/Riv. My second (Disc Trucker) came from the hardscrabble guys at a shop here who cater to real world riders and carry brands that don't demand, or string them out on a heaping floor plan of mediocre branded accessories. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, October 23, 2014 11:36:39 AM UTC-4, Beth H wrote: Andy and others who bemoan the selling out of the Rivendell ideal -- have you ever owned a bike shop and been responsible for the care and feeding of your workers? Just curious. I used to co-own a shop, and had to make payroll twice a month. In the end high ideals won't put food on your employees' tables or clothes on their backs. Say what you like about Surly and the companies that wish they were more like Surly, but their bikes are far more affordable and they sell, logo font and quasi-sexist vibe be damned. And when fly out the door and customers are happy, your workers won't starve. Making payroll because your shop is selling and servicing decent bikes and making people happy is a lot better than the alternative. For awhile, I bemoaned how other companies had begun to copy Rivendell's ideas -- steel bikes with comfortable, non-racing geometry, wool tops, et al. Getting bicyclists with less disposable income on board by making cheaper copies of the cool stuff simply encourages them to ape the rich, right? Sure. Fine. Whatever. In the end, all the copying/flattery has gotten a crap ton more people outside and on bicycles -- enough more that I don't really care anymore how they got there. Riv started something really beautiful, and it comes as no surprise that other companies have taken up the mantle and are spreading good, sensible ideas. So what if my wool jersey says Surly (or Pearl Izumi or Novara) on it? Better yet, so what if I scored my last lot of wool tops from Goodwill? and they fit a little loose or lumpy? It's all good. Hey, I'm outside riding my bike in nearly all kinds of weather. I'm happy. I doubt I will ever be in a position to ever buy another Rivendell bicycle. That's cool. I know what makes a bike sensible and comfortable and I can replicate an awful lot of both the geometry and aesthetic on almost any cheaper steel bike available to me. So in the end, honestly, I think Rivendell has won. Cheers and happy riding -- Beth Hamon, getting ready to go ride in the rain. Again. Portland, OR http://www.beth-hamon-music.com On Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:12:55 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote: I commute on an LHT that most sufficiently met my set of needs and wants when I bought it from a shop that hasn't transacted its soul for a corporate brand floor plan. Had I given up and picked one of the big brands' scant offerings in that vein, I'd be a corporate handmaiden of marketing beyond downtube foolery on my benign ride to and from work. They cannot grasp the idea of selling a bike, not a rolling billboard of graphics and shapes. Each part need not be marked, logo-laiden or utmost. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
The font they use for the name on the downtube is an instant turn-off for me. Fortunately that name and perceived negative association their marketing holds, are easily removed. I commute on an LHT that most sufficiently met my set of needs and wants when I bought it from a shop that hasn't transacted its soul for a corporate brand floor plan. Had I given up and picked one of the big brands' scant offerings in that vein, I'd be a corporate handmaiden of marketing beyond downtube foolery on my benign ride to and from work. They cannot grasp the idea of selling a bike, not a rolling billboard of graphics and shapes. Each part need not be marked, logo-laiden or utmost. I think the real advance of Riv, Surly, Soma, Salsa, etc. is the forward progress of bikes relevant to people rather than the use of high expense (i.e. racing team sponsorship) advertising campaigns to achieve brand identity among people receptive to, but not really cyclists. I'll stick to the expense of bikes and products that are about the bikes and products, even if they take themselves a bit too seriously. That is far less distasteful to me than having to be like a lone homecoming parade float for one of the majors, those things have really gotten garish and visually overdone to ensure that each model carries a visual message to the peers of the buyer. Against that setting, more power to brands that let more shops carry more brands and models of their and their customers' choice without the soul-selling floor planning that taints so many shops now. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:39:36 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 10/22/2014 06:35 PM, Cecily Walker wrote: Surly used to use cockroaches on their website as part of their branding. It was an instant turn-off for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I commute on an LHT that most sufficiently met my set of needs and wants when I bought it from a shop that hasn't transacted its soul for a corporate brand floor plan. Had I given up and picked one of the big brands' scant offerings in that vein, I'd be a corporate handmaiden of marketing beyond downtube foolery on my benign ride to and from work. They cannot grasp the idea of selling a bike, not a rolling billboard of graphics and shapes. Each part need not be marked, logo-laiden or utmost. Surly is a division of QPB. The division itself may eschew hard sell marketing, but it is as big a company as any of the other bike brands out there. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Headbadge? The one on my crosscheck was a puffy sticker. (Nice quality sticker, but not a headbadge.) Headbadge and stickers were easy enough to remove. They're applied w/out top coat on the crosscheck, probably that way with other models, too. On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:52:53 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholla...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
My Long Haul Trucker also has a puffy sticker for a headbadge, and it and the other stickers are easy to remove should one be so inclined. On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:26:49 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote: Headbadge? The one on my crosscheck was a puffy sticker. (Nice quality sticker, but not a headbadge.) Headbadge and stickers were easy enough to remove. They're applied w/out top coat on the crosscheck, probably that way with other models, too. On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:52:53 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholla...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Faux-badge??? On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:44 AM, WETH erlhous...@gmail.com wrote: My Long Haul Trucker also has a puffy sticker for a headbadge, and it and the other stickers are easy to remove should one be so inclined. On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:26:49 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote: Headbadge? The one on my crosscheck was a puffy sticker. (Nice quality sticker, but not a headbadge.) Headbadge and stickers were easy enough to remove. They're applied w/out top coat on the crosscheck, probably that way with other models, too. On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:52:53 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholla...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Andy and others who bemoan the selling out of the Rivendell ideal -- have you ever owned a bike shop and been responsible for the care and feeding of your workers? Just curious. I used to co-own a shop, and had to make payroll twice a month. In the end high ideals won't put food on your employees' tables or clothes on their backs. Say what you like about Surly and the companies that wish they were more like Surly, but their bikes are far more affordable and they sell, logo font and quasi-sexist vibe be damned. And when fly out the door and customers are happy, your workers won't starve. Making payroll because your shop is selling and servicing decent bikes and making people happy is a lot better than the alternative. For awhile, I bemoaned how other companies had begun to copy Rivendell's ideas -- steel bikes with comfortable, non-racing geometry, wool tops, et al. Getting bicyclists with less disposable income on board by making cheaper copies of the cool stuff simply encourages them to ape the rich, right? Sure. Fine. Whatever. In the end, all the copying/flattery has gotten a crap ton more people outside and on bicycles -- enough more that I don't really care anymore how they got there. Riv started something really beautiful, and it comes as no surprise that other companies have taken up the mantle and are spreading good, sensible ideas. So what if my wool jersey says Surly (or Pearl Izumi or Novara) on it? Better yet, so what if I scored my last lot of wool tops from Goodwill? and they fit a little loose or lumpy? It's all good. Hey, I'm outside riding my bike in nearly all kinds of weather. I'm happy. I doubt I will ever be in a position to ever buy another Rivendell bicycle. That's cool. I know what makes a bike sensible and comfortable and I can replicate an awful lot of both the geometry and aesthetic on almost any cheaper steel bike available to me. So in the end, honestly, I think Rivendell has won. Cheers and happy riding -- Beth Hamon, getting ready to go ride in the rain. Again. Portland, OR http://www.beth-hamon-music.com On Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:12:55 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote: I commute on an LHT that most sufficiently met my set of needs and wants when I bought it from a shop that hasn't transacted its soul for a corporate brand floor plan. Had I given up and picked one of the big brands' scant offerings in that vein, I'd be a corporate handmaiden of marketing beyond downtube foolery on my benign ride to and from work. They cannot grasp the idea of selling a bike, not a rolling billboard of graphics and shapes. Each part need not be marked, logo-laiden or utmost. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Hear Hear, I recently bought a Soma Grand Randonneur to replace my bombadil and have to say I am very happy with the frame (haven't built it yet). Tight welds, nice thick paint, nice alloy headbadge, threading for fenders, lowrider mounts, double eyelets on the dropouts, etc. Its a great frame, retails around 500 I think but I got mine for 375 and am really happy. It keeps me riding until I see how this Clem thing shakes out and maybe it will become my everyday bike, I like that Mike Kone was in on the design too! On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Beth H beth.hamon...@gmail.com wrote: Andy and others who bemoan the selling out of the Rivendell ideal -- have you ever owned a bike shop and been responsible for the care and feeding of your workers? Just curious. I used to co-own a shop, and had to make payroll twice a month. In the end high ideals won't put food on your employees' tables or clothes on their backs. Say what you like about Surly and the companies that wish they were more like Surly, but their bikes are far more affordable and they sell, logo font and quasi-sexist vibe be damned. And when fly out the door and customers are happy, your workers won't starve. Making payroll because your shop is selling and servicing decent bikes and making people happy is a lot better than the alternative. For awhile, I bemoaned how other companies had begun to copy Rivendell's ideas -- steel bikes with comfortable, non-racing geometry, wool tops, et al. Getting bicyclists with less disposable income on board by making cheaper copies of the cool stuff simply encourages them to ape the rich, right? Sure. Fine. Whatever. In the end, all the copying/flattery has gotten a crap ton more people outside and on bicycles -- enough more that I don't really care anymore how they got there. Riv started something really beautiful, and it comes as no surprise that other companies have taken up the mantle and are spreading good, sensible ideas. So what if my wool jersey says Surly (or Pearl Izumi or Novara) on it? Better yet, so what if I scored my last lot of wool tops from Goodwill? and they fit a little loose or lumpy? It's all good. Hey, I'm outside riding my bike in nearly all kinds of weather. I'm happy. I doubt I will ever be in a position to ever buy another Rivendell bicycle. That's cool. I know what makes a bike sensible and comfortable and I can replicate an awful lot of both the geometry and aesthetic on almost any cheaper steel bike available to me. So in the end, honestly, I think Rivendell has won. Cheers and happy riding -- Beth Hamon, getting ready to go ride in the rain. Again. Portland, OR http://www.beth-hamon-music.com On Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:12:55 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote: I commute on an LHT that most sufficiently met my set of needs and wants when I bought it from a shop that hasn't transacted its soul for a corporate brand floor plan. Had I given up and picked one of the big brands' scant offerings in that vein, I'd be a corporate handmaiden of marketing beyond downtube foolery on my benign ride to and from work. They cannot grasp the idea of selling a bike, not a rolling billboard of graphics and shapes. Each part need not be marked, logo-laiden or utmost. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
The best Faux-Badge of all time is the one Mike Varley puts on his Black Mountain bikes. The sticker has screw heads as part of the artwork. It's rad! If Mike Varley ever does a Randonneuse he should do a sticker that has brushstrokes so it looks hand-painted like a Herse! On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:46:20 AM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Faux-badge??? On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:44 AM, WETH erlho...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: My Long Haul Trucker also has a puffy sticker for a headbadge, and it and the other stickers are easy to remove should one be so inclined. On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:26:49 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote: Headbadge? The one on my crosscheck was a puffy sticker. (Nice quality sticker, but not a headbadge.) Headbadge and stickers were easy enough to remove. They're applied w/out top coat on the crosscheck, probably that way with other models, too. On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:52:53 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholla...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Surly used to use cockroaches on their website as part of their branding. It was an instant turn-off for me. Horses for courses! On Friday, October 17, 2014 8:26:19 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I find that the Surly/Riv overlap is pretty small. It seems like only 3 Surly models have a comparable Riv analog. Much of Surly's line is more or less unique to Surly, or was unique when first introduced. That said, the two brands share a lot of similar ideas about versatility, tire clearance, etc. And I never thought I'd see Surly do 650B, but now they are coming out with a 650B Straggler (down to 38 cm frames!!!). I see a lot here and elsewhere about Surly's marketing rubbing people the wrong way. I don't read many magazines or read many bike blogs that include ads, so I'm missing most of their formal marketing. Somebody told me awhile back that Riv appeals to the misfits of cycling, and I think that's right (and not in an insulting way). Much of GP's past writing, which reflects many Riv owners' attitudes in my experience, is about feeling alienated by modern cycling trends, and about digging in to resist dumb things that are done in the name of innovation or the perception of improved performance. Surly also appeals to alienated misfits, but in a different way. The Surly image seems to be more about having, um, unorthodox cycling needs (that are somehow related to drinking beer under bridges and having lots of tattoos) and designing a whole new category around it. While Riv frequently gets criticized for being stuck in the past, Surly frequently gets criticized for pushing products on us before we knew that we needed them. In the end, Surly and Riv, in their own ways, pull the broader bike industry in a better direction. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
On 10/22/2014 06:35 PM, Cecily Walker wrote: Surly used to use cockroaches on their website as part of their branding. It was an instant turn-off for me. The font they use for the name on the downtube is an instant turn-off for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholland1...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Still waiting for Waterford and Gunnar to have proper headbadges... On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:52 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: Surly has an actual headbadge, that should mitigate their font choice some. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Rod Holland rholland1...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two. Dandy steel bikes, 10,000 happy miles on one of them. No roaches on mine. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: Who else (i.e., large manufacturers with a presence in local bike shops) is even making touring bikes -- not cyclocross bikes -- these days? Used to be, the big names were Cannondale Trek but Cannondale left the touring bike market years ago, and Trek downgraded their touring bike and pushed it off into the commuter catalog. Surly's the only major presence in local bike shops. What are the rest, REI Novarras? Steve, there were dark days for sure, but touring bikes are back. All the majors (except C-dale--dropped theirs this year) have dedicated tourers again now. Some of them are moving away from the bikecentennial mold and edging toward mixed terrain/adventure biking with discs and bigger clearance. Not necessarily bad things in my book, and I guess it makes sense that a bike generation raised in the MTB and suburban sprawl era would gravitate toward off road touring. Or, at least the idea of it. Here are a few more or less traditional tourers: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/ http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/awol/awol#geometry http://www.konaworld.com/sutra.cfm http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes-urban-all-road-sojourn http://khsbicycles.com/bikes/2013-khs-models/tr-101/ http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/touring#bk_desc_tab I'd guess any of these would be great for true fully loaded touring. Probably better than the skinny tubed bikes from the good old days. Then there are the Somas (Saga), Salsas (Vaya), and Surlys that independent shops can get. They're the ones (along with Riv and custom builders) that are really pushing the touring envelope I'd say. Good times! joe broach portland, or On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 10/17/2014 12:10 PM, Anne Paulson wrote: It's funny about Surly's image, though. Surly has an enormous presence in the long distance bike touring community. If you ride one of the big Adventure Cycling routes, maybe one in four or one in five bikes is a Surly LHT: you find them at every campsite. And most of these riders do not seem interested in drinking beer under bridges. It's just word of mouth, I think, that a Surly LHT is a great touring bike, and so are the Trolls and Ogres. People don't buy into the image-- they just like the bikes. Who else (i.e., large manufacturers with a presence in local bike shops) is even making touring bikes -- not cyclocross bikes -- these days? Used to be, the big names were Cannondale Trek but Cannondale left the touring bike market years ago, and Trek downgraded their touring bike and pushed it off into the commuter catalog. Surly's the only major presence in local bike shops. What are the rest, REI Novarras? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I find that the Surly/Riv overlap is pretty small. It seems like only 3 Surly models have a comparable Riv analog. Much of Surly's line is more or less unique to Surly, or was unique when first introduced. That said, the two brands share a lot of similar ideas about versatility, tire clearance, etc. And I never thought I'd see Surly do 650B, but now they are coming out with a 650B Straggler (down to 38 cm frames!!!). I see a lot here and elsewhere about Surly's marketing rubbing people the wrong way. I don't read many magazines or read many bike blogs that include ads, so I'm missing most of their formal marketing. Somebody told me awhile back that Riv appeals to the misfits of cycling, and I think that's right (and not in an insulting way). Much of GP's past writing, which reflects many Riv owners' attitudes in my experience, is about feeling alienated by modern cycling trends, and about digging in to resist dumb things that are done in the name of innovation or the perception of improved performance. Surly also appeals to alienated misfits, but in a different way. The Surly image seems to be more about having, um, unorthodox cycling needs (that are somehow related to drinking beer under bridges and having lots of tattoos) and designing a whole new category around it. While Riv frequently gets criticized for being stuck in the past, Surly frequently gets criticized for pushing products on us before we knew that we needed them. In the end, Surly and Riv, in their own ways, pull the broader bike industry in a better direction. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
It's funny about Surly's image, though. Surly has an enormous presence in the long distance bike touring community. If you ride one of the big Adventure Cycling routes, maybe one in four or one in five bikes is a Surly LHT: you find them at every campsite. And most of these riders do not seem interested in drinking beer under bridges. It's just word of mouth, I think, that a Surly LHT is a great touring bike, and so are the Trolls and Ogres. People don't buy into the image-- they just like the bikes. Same with Mrs. Thill, who was afraid of riding on the road, but had a big grin on her face when she rode a Pugsley, wasn't it? That story struck a nerve with me, because she represents a lot of women lack confidence in riding, and a solid Pugsley makes a person feel solid and safe when riding so they can enjoy the ride. I don't think Surly's bad-boy advertising image is much like Riv's retro-curmudgeon image, but I think their bikes tend to appeal to a lot of the same people: people who want their bikes to do work instead of having to be babied. On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I find that the Surly/Riv overlap is pretty small. It seems like only 3 Surly models have a comparable Riv analog. Much of Surly's line is more or less unique to Surly, or was unique when first introduced. That said, the two brands share a lot of similar ideas about versatility, tire clearance, etc. And I never thought I'd see Surly do 650B, but now they are coming out with a 650B Straggler (down to 38 cm frames!!!). I see a lot here and elsewhere about Surly's marketing rubbing people the wrong way. I don't read many magazines or read many bike blogs that include ads, so I'm missing most of their formal marketing. Somebody told me awhile back that Riv appeals to the misfits of cycling, and I think that's right (and not in an insulting way). Much of GP's past writing, which reflects many Riv owners' attitudes in my experience, is about feeling alienated by modern cycling trends, and about digging in to resist dumb things that are done in the name of innovation or the perception of improved performance. Surly also appeals to alienated misfits, but in a different way. The Surly image seems to be more about having, um, unorthodox cycling needs (that are somehow related to drinking beer under bridges and having lots of tattoos) and designing a whole new category around it. While Riv frequently gets criticized for being stuck in the past, Surly frequently gets criticized for pushing products on us before we knew that we needed them. In the end, Surly and Riv, in their own ways, pull the broader bike industry in a better direction. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
On 10/17/2014 12:10 PM, Anne Paulson wrote: It's funny about Surly's image, though. Surly has an enormous presence in the long distance bike touring community. If you ride one of the big Adventure Cycling routes, maybe one in four or one in five bikes is a Surly LHT: you find them at every campsite. And most of these riders do not seem interested in drinking beer under bridges. It's just word of mouth, I think, that a Surly LHT is a great touring bike, and so are the Trolls and Ogres. People don't buy into the image-- they just like the bikes. Who else (i.e., large manufacturers with a presence in local bike shops) is even making touring bikes -- not cyclocross bikes -- these days? Used to be, the big names were Cannondale Trek but Cannondale left the touring bike market years ago, and Trek downgraded their touring bike and pushed it off into the commuter catalog. Surly's the only major presence in local bike shops. What are the rest, REI Novarras? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
My experience agrees with Anne's that the LHT is probably the most common bike model seen on bike touring routes (Cross-check is also common). Jamis and Novara, and perhaps others, also market some of their bikes for touring-ish activities. Also, I usually encounter some European person or Euro-phile American who's riding a Rohloff-equipped Tout Terrain or Thorn or similar. But most tourists I've encountered aren't riding proper touring bikes. Most are riding cross bikes and hybrids and road bikes and old 10-speeds and MTBs and whatever else they can strap their stuff to. On Friday, October 17, 2014 1:31:14 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 10/17/2014 12:10 PM, Anne Paulson wrote: It's funny about Surly's image, though. Surly has an enormous presence in the long distance bike touring community. If you ride one of the big Adventure Cycling routes, maybe one in four or one in five bikes is a Surly LHT: you find them at every campsite. And most of these riders do not seem interested in drinking beer under bridges. It's just word of mouth, I think, that a Surly LHT is a great touring bike, and so are the Trolls and Ogres. People don't buy into the image-- they just like the bikes. Who else (i.e., large manufacturers with a presence in local bike shops) is even making touring bikes -- not cyclocross bikes -- these days? Used to be, the big names were Cannondale Trek but Cannondale left the touring bike market years ago, and Trek downgraded their touring bike and pushed it off into the commuter catalog. Surly's the only major presence in local bike shops. What are the rest, REI Novarras? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
There was a Jamis booth at our recent San Antonio Siclovia. I was very disappointed they only brought out towne fixies - I wanted to see one of their touring bikes. On Friday, October 17, 2014 1:48:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: My experience agrees with Anne's that the LHT is probably the most common bike model seen on bike touring routes (Cross-check is also common). Jamis and Novara, and perhaps others, also market some of their bikes for touring-ish activities. Also, I usually encounter some European person or Euro-phile American who's riding a Rohloff-equipped Tout Terrain or Thorn or similar. But most tourists I've encountered aren't riding proper touring bikes. Most are riding cross bikes and hybrids and road bikes and old 10-speeds and MTBs and whatever else they can strap their stuff to. On Friday, October 17, 2014 1:31:14 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 10/17/2014 12:10 PM, Anne Paulson wrote: It's funny about Surly's image, though. Surly has an enormous presence in the long distance bike touring community. If you ride one of the big Adventure Cycling routes, maybe one in four or one in five bikes is a Surly LHT: you find them at every campsite. And most of these riders do not seem interested in drinking beer under bridges. It's just word of mouth, I think, that a Surly LHT is a great touring bike, and so are the Trolls and Ogres. People don't buy into the image-- they just like the bikes. Who else (i.e., large manufacturers with a presence in local bike shops) is even making touring bikes -- not cyclocross bikes -- these days? Used to be, the big names were Cannondale Trek but Cannondale left the touring bike market years ago, and Trek downgraded their touring bike and pushed it off into the commuter catalog. Surly's the only major presence in local bike shops. What are the rest, REI Novarras? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Bruce, that post was why sarcasm on the internet never works (in the long run it damages relationships Sarcasm transliterates putrefying thought and that's what it does - it plants a thought that grows worse with time). Hope you're not stinging too bad. Surly gets my vote over the mass market manufacturers, but yes, Rivendell does it with aplomb. On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:43:13 PM UTC-5, Bruce Smitham wrote: Well I never said that Rivendell invented that stuff, it looks so familiar to what Riv is doing. I guess it's just a matter of taste and I now prefer the Riv over the Surly. I wouldn't say that the Police or The Rolling Stones invented music, drums or reggae music but I prefer them over anything that sounds like them on the radio like Bruno Mars! After many, many bikes I pulled the trigger on a Riv Sam Hillborne and it's the best fitting/riding bike I've owned. Now my Surly Pacer hangs in the garage waiting for a local business trip so I can stuff it in the trunk of my car while my Riv's stand in the garage asking me where do you want to go today? On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:01:19 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Silly of me, its called the Petersen-Bessemer Process duh! On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Goshen Peter uscpet...@gmail.com wrote: and the process for making steel, I believe its called the Grant-Bessemer Process On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com wrote: Rivendell didn't invent wool, they invented sheep! ;-P On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:18:05 AM UTC-7, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I love that they have jerseys, etc. that are designed for women, even though they wouldn't fit me. It's too bad - I really wanted that Long Haul Trucker t-shirt with the woman hauling all the stuff. I have a love-hate (mostly hate) relationship with Surly's marketing, but to my mind, they've hit this out of the box. On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:33:56 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wine...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Oh, just shut up and drink the Kool-aid already! On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:18:05 AM UTC-4, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I take it you mean this rather tongue-in-cheek . . lol :) In appreciation of . On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:18:05 AM UTC-4, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Rivendell didn't invent them http://blog.training4cyclist.netdna-cdn.com/pictures/timetrial.jpg they just stuck with them On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:18:05 AM UTC-5, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I wish Surly would make a 2.2 version of the Knard. I've read a lot of really positive reviews and comments on the tire and now there is even a 41mm version. However, 40mm tires are now skinny to me (my current bike will easily fit them) and I'm working on getting a bike that will take true 29'er tires. I'm intrigued by the 29+ tires (3) but that might be overkill considering the riding I'm likely to do. A bike like the Hunqapillar or VO's Camargue, with 2.2 Knards would probably be a great combination. On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 7:04:39 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: I haven't put a 2 tire on my Atlantis. The widest I've put is 1.7. But so far I LOVE the Knards. They stick to anything. (Supposedly they are subpar in mud. We're in a drought, so I can't speak to that.) They have way better traction than anything else I've ridden. I took a beginner's mountain biking class. One thing they talked about was riding over obstacles like logs and curbs. Preload the suspension (yeah that's useful on a bike with no suspension), pull up on the handlebars just as you approach the obstacle, blah blah blah. With the Knards, when I see a 5 curb or log, I just ride at it, and the bike goes over it. No technique required. Just ride. I was trying to climb a steep section of a fire road. Out of habit, I avoided the gravel section on the left, figuring I'd have bad traction, and instead failed on the rough, rocky right side because I didn't have enough power to get over the roughest parts. After several tries, I realized that the Knards give way better traction than the smooth tires I had previously used on this fire road, so I rode up the gravel. I might as well have been riding smooth pavement for all the traction trouble I had: none. The Knards didn't slip a millimeter. No problem, up I went. Deep gravel, deep sand, ruts: I don't have to pick a line. I can just ride the bike. I must admit that the Krampus is not a fast bike on the road. That's the disadvantage. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.p...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wine...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Rivendell didn't invent wool, they invented sheep! ;-P On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:18:05 AM UTC-7, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
and the process for making steel, I believe its called the Grant-Bessemer Process [?] On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Rivendell didn't invent wool, they invented sheep! ;-P On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:18:05 AM UTC-7, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Silly of me, its called the Petersen-Bessemer Process duh! On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Goshen Peter uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: and the process for making steel, I believe its called the Grant-Bessemer Process [?] On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Rivendell didn't invent wool, they invented sheep! ;-P On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:18:05 AM UTC-7, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Well I never said that Rivendell invented that stuff, it looks so familiar to what Riv is doing. I guess it's just a matter of taste and I now prefer the Riv over the Surly. I wouldn't say that the Police or The Rolling Stones invented music, drums or reggae music but I prefer them over anything that sounds like them on the radio like Bruno Mars! After many, many bikes I pulled the trigger on a Riv Sam Hillborne and it's the best fitting/riding bike I've owned. Now my Surly Pacer hangs in the garage waiting for a local business trip so I can stuff it in the trunk of my car while my Riv's stand in the garage asking me where do you want to go today? On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:01:19 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Silly of me, its called the Petersen-Bessemer Process duh! On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Goshen Peter uscpet...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: and the process for making steel, I believe its called the Grant-Bessemer Process On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Rivendell didn't invent wool, they invented sheep! ;-P On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:18:05 AM UTC-7, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I am so glad that Rivendell invented the following: - Horizontal top tubes - Gently sloping top tubes - Lugs - Braze ons - Nitto components - Wool - Stripes - Chambray - Plaid - Baskets - Contrarianism - seat head tube angles - Platform pedals I feel blessed to be able to bask in the light of the one, true bike company. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
On Monday, October 13, 2014 9:37:19 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: They still get big credit for posting this: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/some_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_read http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fsurlybikes.com%2Fblog%2Fpost%2Fsome_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_readsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNGR39TR0nxFTvqj50nVXcvWacVeyA I've always loved that. It's like the Surly version of Tips For Happy Riding. Hey, little round glasses pocket protector collared shirt skid lid rear view mirror sandal wearing schwalbe marathon running pletscher two-leg kickstand tourist – good job. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
If the sandal fits sounds like some other Co. I know On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 12:20:28 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote: On Monday, October 13, 2014 9:37:19 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: They still get big credit for posting this: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/some_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_read http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fsurlybikes.com%2Fblog%2Fpost%2Fsome_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_readsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNGR39TR0nxFTvqj50nVXcvWacVeyA I've always loved that. It's like the Surly version of Tips For Happy Riding. Hey, little round glasses pocket protector collared shirt skid lid rear view mirror sandal wearing schwalbe marathon running pletscher two-leg kickstand tourist – good job. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
So I finally looked at the post, and at some of Surly's goods and these look interesting: http://surlybikes.com/gear/pants/pants says the stated 34 inseam are longer than any 36 they've seen. That sounds interesting to me as I wear a 36-38 inseam depending on manufacturer. Anyone else try these? Where to buy? (That's one thing I like better about Rivendell, if they have a product on their site, they're usually selling it...) On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
From Surly's site: *People who ride a lot sometimes like pants. Our WorkRide pants are made of medium-weight all cotton duck cloth. They’re durable, roomy and comfy. We’ve done a few things to make them riding pants instead of just pants you can ride in. First, we altered the seam structure in the crotch, moving pressure points away from where you sit. We also added an extra layer ‘down there’ to mitigate any pressure effects of the seams that remain. The knees are articulated for easy bending, and the right leg employs a two nifty snaps to keep them out of your chainring (two, so you can hem your pants to length and have a snap to spare). There is even a snap-loop U-lock keeper on the left rear pocket. Ride to wherever, do what you gotta do (work, chop wood, whatever), then ride home again.* Many good features that Riv's model, at least that I own, does not have, but I p-p-p-personally p-p-p-prefer tight but light nylon canvas, a la Riv, though a good, tight-weave cotton is OK. And I would like a way to peg the left leg, too, since few things are more annoying while pedaling briskly than having a wide cuff catch your bottle cage and yank it out of alignment. (Leave out the U-long loop, too, while you are at it.) I'd like to know: is the crotch cut low/the waist cut high? That is a fault (IMO) of Rivendell's pants: too low a rise, meaning that when you bend over in the hooks, the backs ride uncomfortably low. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote: So I finally looked at the post, and at some of Surly's goods and these look interesting: http://surlybikes.com/gear/pants/pants Anyone else try these? Where to buy? (That's one thing I like better about Rivendell, if they have a product on their site, they're usually selling it...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Surly after Riv
Hey Bruce, You just brought up a long term debate in this group Riv Vs Surly...as much as I love Riv I recognize that they didn't reinvent the bike, but have promoted an ethos I agree with as I know you do. I subscribe to the idea that the more selection the better whether in bicycles or clothing, especially in regards to affordability. Though I'm set with bikes I really look forward to the Clem Jr. Lastly, the fact that Surly manufacturers fat tire bikes is a boon for those that want the ability to traverse difficult surfaces that a 2 tire would struggle in. I looked at the Surly wool selection and am nonplussed. I gravitate to Rivs style anyway. I could have summed it all up with the words, The more the better. -Hugh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
I haven't put a 2 tire on my Atlantis. The widest I've put is 1.7. But so far I LOVE the Knards. They stick to anything. (Supposedly they are subpar in mud. We're in a drought, so I can't speak to that.) They have way better traction than anything else I've ridden. I took a beginner's mountain biking class. One thing they talked about was riding over obstacles like logs and curbs. Preload the suspension (yeah that's useful on a bike with no suspension), pull up on the handlebars just as you approach the obstacle, blah blah blah. With the Knards, when I see a 5 curb or log, I just ride at it, and the bike goes over it. No technique required. Just ride. I was trying to climb a steep section of a fire road. Out of habit, I avoided the gravel section on the left, figuring I'd have bad traction, and instead failed on the rough, rocky right side because I didn't have enough power to get over the roughest parts. After several tries, I realized that the Knards give way better traction than the smooth tires I had previously used on this fire road, so I rode up the gravel. I might as well have been riding smooth pavement for all the traction trouble I had: none. The Knards didn't slip a millimeter. No problem, up I went. Deep gravel, deep sand, ruts: I don't have to pick a line. I can just ride the bike. I must admit that the Krampus is not a fast bike on the road. That's the disadvantage. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place. Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be? Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
We on this list think that steel bikes are great, that the bike industry in general places too much emphasis on racing, that wool shirts are a good riding alternative to synthetic bike jerseys, that bikes should fit wide tires. So... when a bike company makes steel bikes that fit wide tires, and sells wool riding clothing shouldn't we be happy? Isn't that what we want to happen? I love Surly. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't put a 2 tire on my Atlantis. The widest I've put is 1.7. But so far I LOVE the Knards. They stick to anything. (Supposedly they are subpar in mud. We're in a drought, so I can't speak to that.) They have way better traction than anything else I've ridden. I took a beginner's mountain biking class. One thing they talked about was riding over obstacles like logs and curbs. Preload the suspension (yeah that's useful on a bike with no suspension), pull up on the handlebars just as you approach the obstacle, blah blah blah. With the Knards, when I see a 5 curb or log, I just ride at it, and the bike goes over it. No technique required. Just ride. I was trying to climb a steep section of a fire road. Out of habit, I avoided the gravel section on the left, figuring I'd have bad traction, and instead failed on the rough, rocky right side because I didn't have enough power to get over the roughest parts. After several tries, I realized that the Knards give way better traction than the smooth tires I had previously used on this fire road, so I rode up the gravel. I might as well have been riding smooth pavement for all the traction trouble I had: none. The Knards didn't slip a millimeter. No problem, up I went. Deep gravel, deep sand, ruts: I don't have to pick a line. I can just ride the bike. I must admit that the Krampus is not a fast bike on the road. That's the disadvantage. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place. Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Thanks; interesting and useful information to tuck away (until I have more $). but generally, I see that fatter = fewer worries about obstacles, which fits my own experience up to 65 mm wide. My Fargo, alas, will not (I am told) fit Knards. So, for my castle in the air, the decision is: a custom (Chauncey Matthews, nearby) road bike that can take 3 tires; or a fatbike. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't put a 2 tire on my Atlantis. The widest I've put is 1.7. But so far I LOVE the Knards. They stick to anything. (Supposedly they are subpar in mud. We're in a drought, so I can't speak to that.) They have way better traction than anything else I've ridden. I took a beginner's mountain biking class. One thing they talked about was riding over obstacles like logs and curbs. Preload the suspension (yeah that's useful on a bike with no suspension), pull up on the handlebars just as you approach the obstacle, blah blah blah. With the Knards, when I see a 5 curb or log, I just ride at it, and the bike goes over it. No technique required. Just ride. I was trying to climb a steep section of a fire road. Out of habit, I avoided the gravel section on the left, figuring I'd have bad traction, and instead failed on the rough, rocky right side because I didn't have enough power to get over the roughest parts. After several tries, I realized that the Knards give way better traction than the smooth tires I had previously used on this fire road, so I rode up the gravel. I might as well have been riding smooth pavement for all the traction trouble I had: none. The Knards didn't slip a millimeter. No problem, up I went. Deep gravel, deep sand, ruts: I don't have to pick a line. I can just ride the bike. I must admit that the Krampus is not a fast bike on the road. That's the disadvantage. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place. Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Though there is the option of a new fork by Chauncey for the Fargo, which I've been contemplating in the hope that it might improve the Fargo's sluggish turn in; ... Knard in front, 29er knobby in rear ... On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks; interesting and useful information to tuck away (until I have more $). but generally, I see that fatter = fewer worries about obstacles, which fits my own experience up to 65 mm wide. My Fargo, alas, will not (I am told) fit Knards. So, for my castle in the air, the decision is: a custom (Chauncey Matthews, nearby) road bike that can take 3 tires; or a fatbike. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't put a 2 tire on my Atlantis. The widest I've put is 1.7. But so far I LOVE the Knards. They stick to anything. (Supposedly they are subpar in mud. We're in a drought, so I can't speak to that.) They have way better traction than anything else I've ridden. I took a beginner's mountain biking class. One thing they talked about was riding over obstacles like logs and curbs. Preload the suspension (yeah that's useful on a bike with no suspension), pull up on the handlebars just as you approach the obstacle, blah blah blah. With the Knards, when I see a 5 curb or log, I just ride at it, and the bike goes over it. No technique required. Just ride. I was trying to climb a steep section of a fire road. Out of habit, I avoided the gravel section on the left, figuring I'd have bad traction, and instead failed on the rough, rocky right side because I didn't have enough power to get over the roughest parts. After several tries, I realized that the Knards give way better traction than the smooth tires I had previously used on this fire road, so I rode up the gravel. I might as well have been riding smooth pavement for all the traction trouble I had: none. The Knards didn't slip a millimeter. No problem, up I went. Deep gravel, deep sand, ruts: I don't have to pick a line. I can just ride the bike. I must admit that the Krampus is not a fast bike on the road. That's the disadvantage. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Anne: did you ever write up a review of the Knard? Whether so or no, I'd be interested to learn how it handles and how it rides over soft and rough ground, compared to the Atlantis or any other ~2 tired bike you've ridden. Actually, I'm most interested in learning how 3 tires differ on soft and on rough surfaces compared to 2 tires. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: I am not remotely disappointed in Surly. Their wool stuff looks great. And they have jerseys designed for women! Ibex sold striped wool shirts before Rivendell. Doesn't mean that Rivendell is a bad yucky copycat; just means that people like wool shirts with stripes. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
Patrick you can have your cake and eat it too with the new WTB 2.8 650B Trailblazer tire. It will fit on your gen 1 Fargo with 35mm wide rims. As far as Surly, I agree with Anne, steel, wool and fat tires are where it's at. I'm not a fan of the dropouts on some of their bikes but they certainly have led the industry in many areas I value. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Surly after Riv
OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Surly after Riv
They still get big credit for posting this: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/some_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_read On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Bruce Smitham wineh...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
