[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Bill Lindsay]

My 'big' vehicle is a Honda Odyssey.  That's what I use when I'm 
transporting high schoolers and their bikes to team practices.  I have just 
a simple 2 bike hitch rack, but a couple of the other coaches have similar 
vans with 4 slots on top plus 4 more on the hitch rack in back for a total 
of 8 bikes.  It's pretty awesome.

More relevant to Rivendell, if I fold down the back seats, and remove the 
middle row of seats, and fold down the console between the two front seats, 
I can fit my HubbuHubbuH tandem fully inside the vehicle.  The front wheel 
is removed and the bike does not have fenders.  My HHH is a size small, 
though, but it has front and rear bosco bars and a Nitto Big front rack and 
huge Wald basket, so it's still a pretty huge machine.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 7:33:51 PM UTC-7, LeRoy wrote:
>
> When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New 
> Jersey to Michigan *inside* a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with 
> three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the 
> Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, 
> fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown 
> men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to 
> regularly carting the Clem around.
> Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat 
> bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's 
> front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a *very* tight 
> fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't 
> going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. 
> Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.
> So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving 
> up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in 
> a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the 
> bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would 
> *barely* accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee 
> than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of 
> course, discovering this occurred *after* leasing the new Cherokee.
> The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or 
> bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow 
> from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.
> Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the 
> end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem 
> will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.
> Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a 
> clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Joe Bernard]

A friend of mine has an Element, as does Mark @ Riv. It's a perfect little 
storage container on wheels, and I recall that at least some models have an 
interior you can hose down. Nifty!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[The Snag]

I can put my 62cm Appaloosa in our Honda Element standing up and without 
taking anything off. With another bike, and a 80lb dog, and two people with 
camping gear. No problem. And it's AWD...

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Dorothy C]

Our usual bike carrying is via a Thule hitch mount 2 bike rack on the back of a 
2009 VW New Beetle. I have Rivs but my wife prefers her ebike. We have 
discussed trading in from 2 cars, to one electric between us, but so far we 
haven’t found anything that can take a hitch mount bike rack

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[RichS]

Have to give a nod to the Honda Fit. I can “fit” either my Sam or Atlantis 
without removing the front wheel while keeping the passenger seat intact.

Best,
Rich in ATL

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Paul Richardson]

mind blown, re/blown.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[ascpgh]

Paul, my original post of fitting my 62cm Ram in the 328i was a sedan!

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh 

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[David]

I picked up a 2018 VW Golf Alltrack and it easily takes a bike without any 
wheel removal, etc. And it was available with manual transmission which I’m not 
ready to give up yet at 68. I am having a trailer hitch installed as I write 
this as my brother has a hitch rack that will hold 4 bikes when I need it. 
Check out and grab one fast if you’re interested as VW is stopping importing 
them. Unfortunately everybody is going SUV.

David Hays
Williamsville, New York 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 31, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 10/31/19 8:01 AM, 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>> Personally, I LOVE station wagons  and I think, cool is what you make 
>> it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 years. The 
>> only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with the rear seats 
>> folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For that land yacht, I 
>> have to use the roof rack.
>> 
>> It's new car time in our house though ... the current (2007) wagon is 
>> getting the boot and currently there's bit of a debate as to whether we're 
>> going to switch brands before we're both rolling around in wheelchairs! I 
>> don't see a minivan in our future, though (my ego might be too fragile for 
>> that) but I also couldn't be less enthused when looking at the current crop 
>> of "crossover" SUV's. Most, as noted here already aren't any bigger than our 
>> wagons ... most, in fact, are smaller! Unfortunately, true full size wagons 
>> are few and far between here in the USA these days.
> 
> 
> Sadly true, but the V90 will do the job for you.  Not sure about the new V60, 
> the old one didn't have enough room inside.
> 
> 
>> 
>> I also haven't had a car without a roof rack in over 25 years now. 
>> Practically everything ends up on top at some point: paddle boards, 
>> sailboats, skis, bikes, furniture, and of course, christmas trees. I find it 
>> funny that most car salesmen aren't prepared for our questions about what 
>> will fit and where ... it seems like a lot of folks buy those big ol' SUV's 
>> and drive 'em around full of air 
> 
> 
> A friend of mine has a Rav 4 with a roof rack. He also carries a step ladder 
> to get up there.
> 
> I switched to wagons after my crash in 2003 that broke my shoulder, reducing 
> my range of motion enough so as to make use of a roof rack impossible without 
> a step ladder.
> 
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Paul Richardson]

FWIW I didn't realize initially that 328i is the model number of both the 
wagon and the sedan.  So I was imagining sedan+ram and really freaking out!

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/31/19 9:04 AM, 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Good point on the height. The thought of needing step ladder and an 
articulated rear rack for bikes makes me crazy.


I checked with VW, btw. The Passat has already been discontinued.



Not just the Passat.  My VW Golf Alltrack and the FWD Golf Sportwagen 
have also just bee discontinued.



I should also note that both Audi and BMW still offer their full size 
wagons to the European markets. Heck, even Mercedes Benz offers 
/_three_/ engine packages to the Canadian market for their E450 wagon.


We're nutty here in the USA.



I agree.


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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

['jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Good point on the height. The thought of needing step ladder and an 
articulated rear rack for bikes makes me crazy. 

I checked with VW, btw. The Passat has already been discontinued. I should 
also note that both Audi and BMW still offer their full size wagons to the 
European markets. Heck, even Mercedes Benz offers *three* engine packages 
to the Canadian market for their E450 wagon.

We're nutty here in the USA.

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 8:41:48 AM UTC-4, David Bivins wrote:
>
> Hear hear on station wagons. When our son was born 11 years ago, I did the 
> research and ended up choosing a used 2004 VW Passat Wagon. It has a 
> ridiculous amount of cargo space. My Clem slides in fairly easily with the 
> rear seats down, and I also bring my Clem to my VW mechanic's when I need 
> to leave the car for service. It's just such a practical vehicle. 
> Apparently it has some sort of cachet with the young folks, too. I was 
> outside near my car one day recently (we park on the street in Brooklyn) 
> and there was a trio of stylish young men admiring the car. I went to open 
> the door and one of them said "Is this your car? Nice. 2004, right?" 
> They all nodded their approval. It made me feel better about the "beausage" 
> which is more like "abusage" that the body's taken from being on the street 
> all these years.
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 8:01 AM 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> Personally, I LOVE station wagons  and I think, cool is what you make 
>> it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 years. The 
>> only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with the rear seats 
>> folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For that land yacht, I 
>> have to use the roof rack.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[David Bivins]

Hear hear on station wagons. When our son was born 11 years ago, I did the
research and ended up choosing a used 2004 VW Passat Wagon. It has a
ridiculous amount of cargo space. My Clem slides in fairly easily with the
rear seats down, and I also bring my Clem to my VW mechanic's when I need
to leave the car for service. It's just such a practical vehicle.
Apparently it has some sort of cachet with the young folks, too. I was
outside near my car one day recently (we park on the street in Brooklyn)
and there was a trio of stylish young men admiring the car. I went to open
the door and one of them said "Is this your car? Nice. 2004, right?"
They all nodded their approval. It made me feel better about the "beausage"
which is more like "abusage" that the body's taken from being on the street
all these years.

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 8:01 AM 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Personally, I LOVE station wagons  and I think, cool is what you make
> it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 years. The
> only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with the rear seats
> folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For that land yacht, I
> have to use the roof rack.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/31/19 8:01 AM, 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Personally, I LOVE station wagons  and I think, cool is what you 
make it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 
years. The only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with 
the rear seats folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For 
that land yacht, I have to use the roof rack.


It's new car time in our house though ... the current (2007) wagon is 
getting the boot and currently there's bit of a debate as to whether 
we're going to switch brands before we're both rolling around in 
wheelchairs! I don't see a minivan in our future, though (my ego might 
be too fragile for that) but I also couldn't be less enthused when 
looking at the current crop of "crossover" SUV's. Most, as noted here 
already aren't any bigger than our wagons ... most, in fact, are 
smaller! Unfortunately, true full size wagons are few and far between 
here in the USA these days.



Sadly true, but the V90 will do the job for you.  Not sure about the new 
V60, the old one didn't have enough room inside.





I also haven't had a car without a roof rack in over 25 years now. 
Practically everything ends up on top at some point: paddle boards, 
sailboats, skis, bikes, furniture, and of course, christmas trees. I 
find it funny that most car salesmen aren't prepared for our questions 
about what will fit and where ... it seems like a lot of folks buy 
those big ol' SUV's and drive 'em around full of air 



A friend of mine has a Rav 4 with a roof rack. He also carries a step 
ladder to get up there.


I switched to wagons after my crash in 2003 that broke my shoulder, 
reducing my range of motion enough so as to make use of a roof rack 
impossible without a step ladder.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

['jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Personally, I LOVE station wagons  and I think, cool is what you make 
it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 years. The 
only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with the rear seats 
folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For that land yacht, I 
have to use the roof rack.

It's new car time in our house though ... the current (2007) wagon is 
getting the boot and currently there's bit of a debate as to whether we're 
going to switch brands before we're both rolling around in wheelchairs! I 
don't see a minivan in our future, though (my ego might be too fragile for 
that) but I also couldn't be less enthused when looking at the current crop 
of "crossover" SUV's. Most, as noted here already aren't any bigger than 
our wagons ... most, in fact, are smaller! Unfortunately, true full size 
wagons are few and far between here in the USA these days.

I also haven't had a car without a roof rack in over 25 years now. 
Practically everything ends up on top at some point: paddle boards, 
sailboats, skis, bikes, furniture, and of course, christmas trees. I find 
it funny that most car salesmen aren't prepared for our questions about 
what will fit and where ... it seems like a lot of folks buy those big ol' 
SUV's and drive 'em around full of air 

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:
>
> When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New 
> Jersey to Michigan *inside* a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with 
> three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the 
> Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, 
> fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown 
> men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to 
> regularly carting the Clem around.
> Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat 
> bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's 
> front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a *very* tight 
> fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't 
> going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. 
> Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.
> So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving 
> up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in 
> a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the 
> bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would 
> *barely* accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee 
> than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of 
> course, discovering this occurred *after* leasing the new Cherokee.
> The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or 
> bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow 
> from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.
> Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the 
> end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem 
> will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.
> Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a 
> clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?
>

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[ascpgh]

328i sedan. The "illegal" engineering part was how that was part of the 
"winter package" option group. Despite a pass-through in the armrest recess 
for one pair of skis, the seatbacks had to drop to be able to fit two sets 
of skis. That it required rationalization of that magnitude to justify 
making the car as useful as it was with that feature is even more marginal. 
To fit a bike you had to have a heated steering wheel, deicing side view 
mirrors, etc. Hope no one in the sunny climes needs to fit a bike in their 
sedan. 

Second that Outback vote. The BMW is gone, the older Outback stayed because 
of its versatility (and service expenses that didn't feel like a real 
estate closing).

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 1:42:33 PM UTC-4, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
> 62 Ram in a 328i?!?that is amazing.
 We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats *do not even 
 fold down*.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike 
 transport, both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off 
 limits to passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, 
 for 
 sure.
 paul
 takoma park, md.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Nick Payne]

I remember that about 30 years ago a friend bought a Toyota Supra. He said 
that the salesman was rather bemused, because when he first looked at the 
vehicle, he drove to the dealership, and after the initial 
inspection/drive, he said to the salesman: "I'll come back tomorrow on my 
bike, and if it can fit in the back without removing the wheels, I'll buy 
the car". And it did fit (with the rear seats folded down), and he bought 
the car. It probably helped that he was fairly short and rode small frames. 
In fact, on one occasion we drove up to Sydney to ride the state 
championships, and we could fit both our bikes inside, though we had to 
remove the front wheels to get both bikes inside.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[REC (Roberta)]

This is the reason that I didn't buy a Honda Civic Hybrid.  I ended up with 
a VW Jetta Hybrid, whose batteries form a shelf behind the back seat, but 
the seat does fold down and the opening is tall enough to put the bike 
through.  

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 1:42:33 PM UTC-4, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
> 62 Ram in a 328i?!?that is amazing.
>>>
>>
> We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats *do not even fold 
> down*.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike transport, 
> both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off limits to 
> passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for sure.
>
> paul
> takoma park, md.
>

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Joe Bernard]

I can slide a 52 Clem through the trunk with rear seats folded down on a '17 
Impala, front wheel off..it works but it's kind of a hassle. What I need is a 
minivan like Leah's, but I can't bring myself to drive one 

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Glen]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 11:42:33 AM UTC-6, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
> 62 Ram in a 328i?!?that is amazing.
>>>
>>
> I've fit my 64cm Ram and my wife's 54cm Bianchi along with 5 days worth of 
luggage in my 328i wagon, all below the window line with their wheels still 
on.


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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I brought my Appaloosa to the dealership when I bought my Mini Cooper and 
let them know that the sale of the car was contingent on the bike fitting 
in back.  It took some maneuvering, but with the front wheel off and the 
passenger seat pulled all the way forward the bike will fit.  It should be 
noted that I have the 4 door model and the back seat fold down completely 
flat.

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 12:42:33 PM UTC-5, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
> 62 Ram in a 328i?!?that is amazing.
>>>
>>
> We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats *do not even fold 
> down*.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike transport, 
> both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off limits to 
> passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for sure.
>
> paul
> takoma park, md.
>

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Such a bummer about the Clem not fitting in the cargo of the Jeep! Well, there 
is always the hitch rack option. I do have a Saris that works beautifully, in 
case you needed a recommendation.

I have a Honda Odyssey that I swear by. I’ve got two sons so I feel like I have 
an excuse to drive a minivan, but when they are gone I may still be driving one 
because they are so good for bikes. Once you’ve had all the practicality and 
comfort a van offers, it’s hard to get the SUV which costs more and gives you 
less. Of everything. Except cool factor. 

With the 3rd row stowed in the floor (easy), I can fit my 52 Clementine in the 
back at a diagonal. I do have to slam the Bosco bars, though or the bike is too 
tall. Not sure what a 59 would be like! I routinely drive around with both 
boys’ bikes in the back, and one is a 45 Clem H with the bars jacked. 

Enjoyed reading everyone’s responses! 

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Dorothy C]

When I had to drop our 2 seater convertible Audi at the shop for some work 
recently, I found I could fit my 47cm Roadini in the trunk with the wheels off, 
one in the trunk under the frame, and one in the passenger well, providing I 
held the trunk down with a bungee cord. The most fun is when the receptionist 
starts to apologize that the shuttle service is very busy, and you tell her you 
are riding your bike home. 

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:42:33 AM UTC-7, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
>
>>> We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats *do not even 
> fold down*.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike 
> transport, both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off 
> limits to passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for 
> sure.
>

I think the rear seats on Civic hybrids don't fold down because of the 
battery. Certainly, non-hybrid Civic back seats can fold (option, alas…).

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 7:06:14 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:
>
> I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the 
> dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and 
> no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car 
> home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter 
> either. 
>
> I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right 
> in, collected my paperwork and drove away.
>

LOL. A lot of people are surprised that most small-to-medium sized SUVs 
aren't much bigger (if at all) than typical station wagons. I had use of a 
late model MB E-class station wagon before, and my bikes go in without 
needing to remove any wheel (important if you have fenders), with the rear 
seats folded. *But* station wagons aren't cool. The largest enclosed hauler 
is a minivan; those swallow bikes whole and still have space for the 
kitchen sink. 

A "clever" solution is to leverage that tow hitch you may have, and get a 
nice bike rack.

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Paul Richardson]

>
> 62 Ram in a 328i?!?that is amazing.
>>
>
We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats *do not even fold 
down*.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike transport, both 
wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off limits to 
passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for sure.

paul
takoma park, md.

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Lynn Haas]

I bought a new car last year, and the salesperson said that he had seen an 
amazing variety of things brought in to check for fit. The Honda dealer 
even knew what models would fit a bike standing on the front fork. 

We can get two bikes, camping/roadtrip gear, our dog + her bed and crate, 
and two humans in our Subaru Crosstrek if I remove all four bike wheels, 
lower or remove the seatposts, stand both bikes on their heads, put mine in 
handlebars first, and then put my husband's bike in handlebars last. I 
think once I might have taken off a front fender. At work we routinely turn 
handlebars to cram bikes in tighter, and we used to have 75 bikes with 
detachable pedals. These days we are putting foam koozies on bike pedals so 
we can cram the bikes together for transport and not have the pedals 
scratch or damage the bikes.

When I had a Surly LHT and a Honda Civic sedan, I was fine lowering the 
rear seats, taking off the front wheel, and easing the whole thing in the 
trunk... until I switched from the stock bars to Nitto Noodles. That extra 
1" or so of flare wouldn't fit no matter how I turned the front end. 

Repair shops tend to be surprised when I pull my bike out of the car and 
ride away while the car gets worked on.

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Tom Wyland]

It's funny there are websites and car reviewers that show you how a child 
seat fits in the back of the car.  Why not bikes?  When I sold my Dutch 
Cargo Bike the nice couple who came to purchase it had a sedan with a 
trunk.  The entire fork and front wheel were sticking out the trunk. Most 
of my bikes don't ride *in* cars, except for my trusty Dahon folding bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[Curtis McKenzie]

Here is my bike and car story.

After two weeks of cycling around Washington state I rode Amtrak home.
Arriving in San Diego at just after midnight with my wife kindly picking me
up at the station.  To my surprise I do not see our pick up truck.  She
drove the Subaru Outback.  Not a big deal except for my 68 cm Bantam
bicycle and bags.  After taking 30 seconds removing the bags from the
bicycle and folding down the seats of the vehicle the bicycle fit very
nicely in the back of the Outback.  We have been impressed the Outback and
after that experience we think the vehicle is pretty cool (but not quite as
cool as a bicycle).

Cheers,

Curtis

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 7:06 AM ascpgh  wrote:

> I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the
> dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and
> no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car
> home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter
> either.
>
> I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right
> in, collected my paperwork and drove away.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:
>>
>> When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from
>> New Jersey to Michigan *inside* a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along
>> with three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted,
>> the Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar,
>> fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown
>> men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to
>> regularly carting the Clem around.
>> Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat
>> bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's
>> front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a *very* tight
>> fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't
>> going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board.
>> Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.
>> So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that
>> moving up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would
>> result in a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the
>> bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would
>> *barely* accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee
>> than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of
>> course, discovering this occurred *after* leasing the new Cherokee.
>> The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or
>> bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow
>> from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.
>> Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But
>> the end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the
>> Clem will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.
>> Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a
>> clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?
>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[James Warren]

Atlantis held up against the truck bed. Was part of the buying process almost 
exactly 9 years ago.

I’ll bet these practices are more common than we realize.


> On Oct 30, 2019, at 7:06 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
> 
> I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the 
> dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and 
> no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car 
> home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter either. 
> 
> I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right 
> in, collected my paperwork and drove away. 
> 
> Andy Cheatham 
> Pittsburgh
> 
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:
> When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New 
> Jersey to Michigan inside a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with three 
> guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the Clem was 
> reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, fenders, seat, 
> racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown men + gear. This 
> was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to regularly carting 
> the Clem around.
> Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat bigger 
> Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's front 
> passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a very tight fit. Still 
> indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't going to 
> happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. Clearly, I 
> needed a bigger vehicle.
> So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving up 
> the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in a 
> better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the bigger-on-the-outside 
> Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would barely accommodate the 
> Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee than the Compass. It's 
> certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of course, discovering this 
> occurred afterleasing the new Cherokee.
> The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or 
> bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow from 
> the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.
> Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the 
> end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem will 
> be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.
> Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a clever 
> solution that hasn't occurred to me?
> 
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> .

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[RBW] Re: A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[ascpgh]

I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the 
dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and 
no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car 
home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter 
either. 

I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right 
in, collected my paperwork and drove away. 

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:
>
> When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New 
> Jersey to Michigan *inside* a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with 
> three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the 
> Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, 
> fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown 
> men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to 
> regularly carting the Clem around.
> Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat 
> bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's 
> front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a *very* tight 
> fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't 
> going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. 
> Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.
> So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving 
> up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in 
> a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the 
> bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would 
> *barely* accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee 
> than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of 
> course, discovering this occurred *after* leasing the new Cherokee.
> The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or 
> bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow 
> from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.
> Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the 
> end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem 
> will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.
> Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a 
> clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?
>

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