[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I remember these discussions from 7 years ago. I took my kickstand off and 
bought a Click Stand just to be safe before I damaged the plate on my Hunq. 
Riv said plates on Waterford Riv's were thinner than the Taiwanese Riv's.

I thought I remembered someone thinking riding on rough roads had been 
enough for the weight of their single leg kickstand to twist and damage the 
plate on their bike but I haven't found the thread yet.

Leah, your kickstand snapping in the back of your card is a completely 
different flavor of "yikes?!?!"

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[藍俊彪]

I once called up Bruce Gordon asking him if he would sell/recommend a child
seat for his racks. He gave me a earful! A short summary is that "you
wouldn't carry a sack of potatoes that way, so don't carry your kid that
way. Get a trailer!"

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 5:50 PM  wrote:

> Good point, Michael!
>
> My kids ride on the Mac ride up front which helps with that. I insert or
> remove them while straddling the top tube. That would be hard to do with a
> rear seat.
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso
>
> On Nov 7, 2022, at 18:46, Michael Baquerizo  wrote:
>
> leaning is all fine and good until you throw a kid on the back of your
> bike. my 32 pounder goes on while my pletscher double is out. sam hillborne.
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> Interesting discussions about benefits of and problems with kickstands.
>>
>> Richard, I'm totally with you about how useful the double is.
>>
>> For fun I looked back on Riv's website about 10 years ago (specifically
>> Oct 2011) to see what they had written about kickstands in general and the
>> double Pletschers in particular:
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>> *KICKSTANDS*
>>
>>- Every bike that isn’t strictly a race bike will benefit from a
>>kickstand, but kickstands turn off people by the tens of thousands. Why?
>>Because of old associations with cheap bikes? That may be it. It must be
>>it. But they’re no less functional on an expensive bike, and the expensive
>>bike is the one you’d most like to not fall over, isn’t it? The one you’d
>>least like to see topple?
>>- Clamp on kickstands can smash and wreck thin chainstays…so if you
>>have a history of stripping the threads on screws and peanut butter jar
>>lids, stay away. Wrap the stays with bar-tape. Clamp securely but not
>>oversecurely. Or better yet, get one of the Pletscher clamp-cushions we
>>offer.
>>- Few expensive bikes have brazed-on kickstand plates, but most of
>>ours (not the Roadeo) do. That makes kickstands easy and avoids clamping
>>damage. But it is possible to rip the weld apart if you, like, sit on the
>>bike and fall over on the kickstand side. It has happened. No need. Be
>>careful, and enjoy your kickstand.
>>- We sell the Swiss-made Pletscher model, not the almost as good
>>Greenfield. The story we heard is that Pletscher developed the inner 
>> spring
>>mechanism, and Greenfield has adopted it (in a business agreement). Either
>>way, they’re both good.
>>
>> *PLETSCHER TWIN-LEGGER*
>>
>>- Single-leggers are fine & the way to go for daily use.
>>- But if the lean angle exceeds such and such and the weight is more
>>than so and so, a single-legged kickstand will be overwhelmed.
>>- This Pletscher Two-Legger thrives in  those conditions.
>>- We wouldn't offer it if it weren't spectacular. Here's how it is:
>>- -- It works great.
>>   - -- It's clever.
>>   - -- It's Swiss.
>>   - -- It has heritage without being trendy and coveteous.
>>   - -- It's affordable, although just barely.
>>   - -- You can't buy it at the Five-and-Dime.
>>- It weighs about 1.6 pounds.
>>- As is the case with the single-letter kickstand, you have to cut it
>>to size.
>>- Here's what you do: []
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Right on, Richard.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>>
 I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my
 Clem last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else
 was looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their
 bikes were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L,
 with no top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”.
 The stand has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old
 slow guy:)

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:

 If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.


 On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands
>> cause more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>
>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I
>> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Aaron in El Paso
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the
>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how
>> people use theirs, but there is a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[amillhench]

Good point, Michael!

My kids ride on the Mac ride up front which helps with that. I insert or remove 
them while straddling the top tube. That would be hard to do with a rear seat. 

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

On Nov 7, 2022, at 18:46, Michael Baquerizo  wrote:

leaning is all fine and good until you throw a kid on the back of your bike. 
my 32 pounder goes on while my pletscher double is out. sam hillborne.



On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
> Interesting discussions about benefits of and problems with kickstands. 
> 
> Richard, I'm totally with you about how useful the double is. 
> 
> For fun I looked back on Riv's website about 10 years ago (specifically Oct 
> 2011) to see what they had written about kickstands in general and the double 
> Pletschers in particular:
> 
> 
> 
> KICKSTANDS
> Every bike that isn’t strictly a race bike will benefit from a kickstand, but 
> kickstands turn off people by the tens of thousands. Why? Because of old 
> associations with cheap bikes? That may be it. It must be it. But they’re no 
> less functional on an expensive bike, and the expensive bike is the one you’d 
> most like to not fall over, isn’t it? The one you’d least like to see topple?
> Clamp on kickstands can smash and wreck thin chainstays…so if you have a 
> history of stripping the threads on screws and peanut butter jar lids, stay 
> away. Wrap the stays with bar-tape. Clamp securely but not oversecurely. Or 
> better yet, get one of the Pletscher clamp-cushions we offer.
> Few expensive bikes have brazed-on kickstand plates, but most of ours (not 
> the Roadeo) do. That makes kickstands easy and avoids clamping damage. But it 
> is possible to rip the weld apart if you, like, sit on the bike and fall over 
> on the kickstand side. It has happened. No need. Be careful, and enjoy your 
> kickstand.
> We sell the Swiss-made Pletscher model, not the almost as good Greenfield. 
> The story we heard is that Pletscher developed the inner spring mechanism, 
> and Greenfield has adopted it (in a business agreement). Either way, they’re 
> both good.
> PLETSCHER TWIN-LEGGER
> Single-leggers are fine & the way to go for daily use.
> But if the lean angle exceeds such and such and the weight is more than so 
> and so, a single-legged kickstand will be overwhelmed.
> This Pletscher Two-Legger thrives in  those conditions.
> We wouldn't offer it if it weren't spectacular. Here's how it is:
> -- It works great.
> -- It's clever.
> -- It's Swiss.
> -- It has heritage without being trendy and coveteous.
> -- It's affordable, although just barely.
> -- You can't buy it at the Five-and-Dime.
> It weighs about 1.6 pounds.
> As is the case with the single-letter kickstand, you have to cut it to size.
> Here's what you do: []
> 
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Right on, Richard. 
>> 
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>> I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my Clem 
>>> last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else was 
>>> looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their bikes 
>>> were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L, with no 
>>> top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”. The stand 
>>> has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old slow guy:)
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
 
 If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
 
 
 On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
> I'm a "leaner" as well.
> 
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com wrote:
>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause 
>> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>> 
>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I 
>> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Aaron in El Paso 
>> 
>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the 
>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how 
>> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the 
>> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up 
>> and close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate 
>> that could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands 
>> are handy for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't 
>> be excessive stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to 
>> sit on the bike while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Michael Baquerizo]

leaning is all fine and good until you throw a kid on the back of your 
bike. my 32 pounder goes on while my pletscher double is out. sam hillborne.



On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> Interesting discussions about benefits of and problems with kickstands. 
>
> Richard, I'm totally with you about how useful the double is. 
>
> For fun I looked back on Riv's website about 10 years ago (specifically 
> Oct 2011) to see what they had written about kickstands in general and the 
> double Pletschers in particular:
>
>
> **
>
> *KICKSTANDS*
>
>- Every bike that isn’t strictly a race bike will benefit from a 
>kickstand, but kickstands turn off people by the tens of thousands. Why? 
>Because of old associations with cheap bikes? That may be it. It must be 
>it. But they’re no less functional on an expensive bike, and the expensive 
>bike is the one you’d most like to not fall over, isn’t it? The one you’d 
>least like to see topple?
>- Clamp on kickstands can smash and wreck thin chainstays…so if you 
>have a history of stripping the threads on screws and peanut butter jar 
>lids, stay away. Wrap the stays with bar-tape. Clamp securely but not 
>oversecurely. Or better yet, get one of the Pletscher clamp-cushions we 
>offer.
>- Few expensive bikes have brazed-on kickstand plates, but most of 
>ours (not the Roadeo) do. That makes kickstands easy and avoids clamping 
>damage. But it is possible to rip the weld apart if you, like, sit on the 
>bike and fall over on the kickstand side. It has happened. No need. Be 
>careful, and enjoy your kickstand.
>- We sell the Swiss-made Pletscher model, not the almost as good 
>Greenfield. The story we heard is that Pletscher developed the inner 
> spring 
>mechanism, and Greenfield has adopted it (in a business agreement). Either 
>way, they’re both good.
>
> *PLETSCHER TWIN-LEGGER*
>
>- Single-leggers are fine & the way to go for daily use.
>- But if the lean angle exceeds such and such and the weight is more 
>than so and so, a single-legged kickstand will be overwhelmed.
>- This Pletscher Two-Legger thrives in  those conditions.
>- We wouldn't offer it if it weren't spectacular. Here's how it is:
>- -- It works great.
>   - -- It's clever.
>   - -- It's Swiss.
>   - -- It has heritage without being trendy and coveteous.
>   - -- It's affordable, although just barely.
>   - -- You can't buy it at the Five-and-Dime.
>- It weighs about 1.6 pounds.
>- As is the case with the single-letter kickstand, you have to cut it 
>to size.
>- Here's what you do: []
>
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Right on, Richard. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my 
>>> Clem last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else 
>>> was looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their 
>>> bikes were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L, 
>>> with no top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”. 
>>> The stand has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old 
>>> slow guy:)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
>>>
>>> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 I'm a "leaner" as well.

 On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands 
> cause more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>
> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I 
> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso 
>
> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>
> 
> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the 
> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how 
> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the 
> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and 
> close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that 
> could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are 
> handy 
> for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the 
> bike 
> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> So here’s a pic of the plate on an 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[J J]

Interesting discussions about benefits of and problems with kickstands. 

Richard, I'm totally with you about how useful the double is. 

For fun I looked back on Riv's website about 10 years ago (specifically Oct 
2011) to see what they had written about kickstands in general and the 
double Pletschers in particular:


**

*KICKSTANDS*

   - Every bike that isn’t strictly a race bike will benefit from a 
   kickstand, but kickstands turn off people by the tens of thousands. Why? 
   Because of old associations with cheap bikes? That may be it. It must be 
   it. But they’re no less functional on an expensive bike, and the expensive 
   bike is the one you’d most like to not fall over, isn’t it? The one you’d 
   least like to see topple?
   - Clamp on kickstands can smash and wreck thin chainstays…so if you have 
   a history of stripping the threads on screws and peanut butter jar lids, 
   stay away. Wrap the stays with bar-tape. Clamp securely but not 
   oversecurely. Or better yet, get one of the Pletscher clamp-cushions we 
   offer.
   - Few expensive bikes have brazed-on kickstand plates, but most of ours 
   (not the Roadeo) do. That makes kickstands easy and avoids clamping damage. 
   But it is possible to rip the weld apart if you, like, sit on the bike and 
   fall over on the kickstand side. It has happened. No need. Be careful, and 
   enjoy your kickstand.
   - We sell the Swiss-made Pletscher model, not the almost as good 
   Greenfield. The story we heard is that Pletscher developed the inner spring 
   mechanism, and Greenfield has adopted it (in a business agreement). Either 
   way, they’re both good.

*PLETSCHER TWIN-LEGGER*

   - Single-leggers are fine & the way to go for daily use.
   - But if the lean angle exceeds such and such and the weight is more 
   than so and so, a single-legged kickstand will be overwhelmed.
   - This Pletscher Two-Legger thrives in  those conditions.
   - We wouldn't offer it if it weren't spectacular. Here's how it is:
   - -- It works great.
  - -- It's clever.
  - -- It's Swiss.
  - -- It has heritage without being trendy and coveteous.
  - -- It's affordable, although just barely.
  - -- You can't buy it at the Five-and-Dime.
   - It weighs about 1.6 pounds.
   - As is the case with the single-letter kickstand, you have to cut it to 
   size.
   - Here's what you do: []


On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Right on, Richard. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my 
>> Clem last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else 
>> was looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their 
>> bikes were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L, 
>> with no top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”. 
>> The stand has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old 
>> slow guy:)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
>>
>> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands 
 cause more damage than they offer any “solution.”

 It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I 
 even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 

 Best,

 Aaron in El Paso 

 On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:

 
 I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the 
 plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how 
 people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the 
 stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and 
 close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that 
 could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy 
 for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
 stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
 while on the stand! - not a good idea.



 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a 
> pretty good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not 
> bothered 
> to put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly 
> ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
>
> I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of 
> bikes like the Bombadil and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

Right on, Richard.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:

> I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my
> Clem last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else
> was looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their
> bikes were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L,
> with no top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”.
> The stand has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old
> slow guy:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
>
> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
>
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause
>>> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>>
>>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I
>>> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Aaron in El Paso
>>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the
>>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how
>>> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the
>>> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and
>>> close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that
>>> could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy
>>> for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive
>>> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike
>>> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a
 pretty good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered
 to put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly
 ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.)

 I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of
 bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical
 reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads
 these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight
 it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m
 so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.

 Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount
 being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I
 feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!

 [image: Glorius kickstand plate.jpg]





 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most
> dainty kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from
> that bike just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays
> in the process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate 
> in
> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands 
> are
> dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped
> selling them.
>
> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely
>> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I 
>> just
>> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea.
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a
>>> turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before
>>> crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard.
>>>
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it
>>> tight.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
 that
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie 
 Bars!
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder 
 if
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Richard Rose]

I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my Clem 
last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else was 
looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their bikes were 
falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L, with no top tube 
along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”. The stand has become a 
favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old slow guy:)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
> 
> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
> 
> 
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>> 
>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause 
>>> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>> 
>>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I even 
>>> lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the plate. 
>>> The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how people use 
>>> theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the stand (like 
>>> on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and close the 
>>> stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that could 
>>> easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy for 
>>> keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
>>> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
>>> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
 So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a pretty 
 good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered to 
 put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly 
 ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
 
 I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of 
 bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical 
 reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads 
 these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional 
 weight it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is 
 and I’m so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.
 
 Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount 
 being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and 
 I feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
> kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that 
> bike just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in 
> the process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands 
> are dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv 
> stopped selling them. 
> 
>> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
>> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I 
>> just repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>> 
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>>> 
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
 Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
 screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the 
 bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>> 
 
 A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it 
 tight. 
 
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
> that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my 
> Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and 
> then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie 
> Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s 
> huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

"Ride like the Wind"- The Youngbloods

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:38:45 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:

> My Raleigh three speed in the 70's may have had a kickstand, and yet even 
> with one, the bike can still fall over if the ground or the kickstand 
> itself isn't "just right". Where I ride now out in the country they would 
> be of no value as the terrain where I stop is highly "irregular". Even if 
> they were effective, I still would not use one as I always have something 
> to lean it against, or on  yeah  the ground never fails and quite 
> secure. My bikes, mostly the Bombadil which like all such frames are too 
> wheel floppy for my preference, have fallen over a few times, mostly at 
> home outside the garage on asphalt, with nothing more than a scuffed bar 
> end brake lever.  Where I live, flat level ground is very rare. Three 
> cheers for living in the country ! ! !  Sure, carrying a strap to secure 
> the front wheel is an idea, or some other doohickey . but going through 
> all that every time you stop sheesh .too much !
>
> Just ride like the Wind  It never fails and never falls over ! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

"Ride the Wind" - The Youngbloods.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022, 11:38 AM Garth  wrote:

> My Raleigh three speed in the 70's may have had a kickstand, and yet even
> with one, the bike can still fall over if the ground or the kickstand
> itself isn't "just right". Where I ride now out in the country they would
> be of no value as the terrain where I stop is highly "irregular". Even if
> they were effective, I still would not use one as I always have something
> to lean it against, or on  yeah  the ground never fails and quite
> secure. My bikes, mostly the Bombadil which like all such frames are too
> wheel floppy for my preference, have fallen over a few times, mostly at
> home outside the garage on asphalt, with nothing more than a scuffed bar
> end brake lever.  Where I live, flat level ground is very rare. Three
> cheers for living in the country ! ! !  Sure, carrying a strap to secure
> the front wheel is an idea, or some other doohickey . but going through
> all that every time you stop sheesh .too much !
>
> Just ride like the Wind  It never fails and never falls over !
>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Garth]

My Raleigh three speed in the 70's may have had a kickstand, and yet even 
with one, the bike can still fall over if the ground or the kickstand 
itself isn't "just right". Where I ride now out in the country they would 
be of no value as the terrain where I stop is highly "irregular". Even if 
they were effective, I still would not use one as I always have something 
to lean it against, or on  yeah  the ground never fails and quite 
secure. My bikes, mostly the Bombadil which like all such frames are too 
wheel floppy for my preference, have fallen over a few times, mostly at 
home outside the garage on asphalt, with nothing more than a scuffed bar 
end brake lever.  Where I live, flat level ground is very rare. Three 
cheers for living in the country ! ! !  Sure, carrying a strap to secure 
the front wheel is an idea, or some other doohickey . but going through 
all that every time you stop sheesh .too much !

Just ride like the Wind  It never fails and never falls over ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

A sad, but true story.  As a "roadie", having a kickstand was not normal,
so I didn't get a kickstand for my wife's Betty Foy.  When I picked up the
beautiful bike with her at Riv, I leaned the bike against a sign while I
was getting ready to load it onto the car.  Just then, the bike slid off
the sign, scratched the top tube and fell to the ground.  I profusely
apologized to my wife (she doesn't like the idea of beausage right from the
start), and I found some nail polish that was tolerable in hiding the
damage to the paint.  Needless to say, I got her a kickstand so she
wouldn't have to endure that pain again.

Most of my bikes have kickstands now :).

Toshi

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

Hey ! Just lean into the wind.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022, 9:33 AM Will Boericke  wrote:

> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
>
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause
>>> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>>
>>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I
>>> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Aaron in El Paso
>>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the
>>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how
>>> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the
>>> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and
>>> close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that
>>> could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy
>>> for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive
>>> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike
>>> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a
 pretty good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered
 to put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly
 ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.)

 I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of
 bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical
 reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads
 these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight
 it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m
 so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.

 Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount
 being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I
 feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!

 [image: Glorius kickstand plate.jpg]





 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most
> dainty kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from
> that bike just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays
> in the process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate 
> in
> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands 
> are
> dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped
> selling them.
>
> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely
>> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I 
>> just
>> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea.
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a
>>> turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before
>>> crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard.
>>>
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it
>>> tight.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
 that
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie 
 Bars!
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder 
 if
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an
 opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what 
 it’s
 worth.)
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
 kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:

 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

 Save the plate! Add some weight!
 -Kai

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Will Boericke]

If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.


On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause 
>> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>
>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I even 
>> lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the 
>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how 
>> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the 
>> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and 
>> close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that 
>> could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy 
>> for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
>> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
>> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a 
>>> pretty good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered 
>>> to put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly 
>>> ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
>>>
>>> I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of 
>>> bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical 
>>> reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads 
>>> these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight 
>>> it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m 
>>> so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.
>>>
>>> Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount 
>>> being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I 
>>> feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!  
>>>
>>> [image: Glorius kickstand plate.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
 kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that 
 bike 
 just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
 process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
 subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands 
 are 
 dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
 selling them. 

 On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I 
> just 
> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a 
>> turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before 
>> crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it 
>> tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
>>> that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie 
>>> Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder 
>>> if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what 
>>> it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
>>> kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Johnny Alien]

I'm a "leaner" as well.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com wrote:

> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause 
> more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>
> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I even 
> lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso 
>
> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>
> 
> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the plate. 
> The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how people use 
> theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the stand (like 
> on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and close the 
> stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that could 
> easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy for 
> keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a 
>> pretty good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered 
>> to put the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly 
>> ridden and has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
>>
>> I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of 
>> bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical 
>> reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads 
>> these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight 
>> it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m 
>> so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.
>>
>> Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount 
>> being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I 
>> feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!  
>>
>> [image: Glorius kickstand plate.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
>>> kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
>>> just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
>>> process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
>>> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
>>> dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
>>> selling them. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
 redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I 
 just 
 repeated what he said. Lame! 浪

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar 
> if 
> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>
>
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it 
> tight. 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
>> that 
>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie 
>> Bars! 
>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder 
>> if 
>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>> worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
>> kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience 
>>> with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
>>> I'm familiar with 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[amillhench]

It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands cause more 
damage than they offer any “solution.”

It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I even lean 
it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:


I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the plate. The 
double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how people use theirs, 
but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the stand (like on a 
motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and close the stand. That 
puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that could easily lead to the 
kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy for keeping the bike upright 
with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive stress in that position. On 
recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike while on the stand! - not a good 
idea.



On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
> So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a pretty 
> good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered to put 
> the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly ridden and 
> has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
> 
> I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of bikes 
> like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical reason the 
> plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads these burly 
> bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight it would 
> probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m so used to 
> it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.
> 
> Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount being 
> a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I feel 
> much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
>> kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
>> just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
>> process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
>> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
>> dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
>> selling them. 
>> 
>> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
>>> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
>>> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
 Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
 
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar 
> if you ever screwed it down that hard. 
 
> 
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
> 
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
>> that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my 
>> Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, 
>> and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can 
>> anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and 
>> heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>> 
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
 
 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience 
 with both is this: 
 
 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
 the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on 
 Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports 
 the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as 
 soon as I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Mark C]

I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the plate. 
The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how people use 
theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the stand (like 
on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and close the 
stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that could 
easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy for 
keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
while on the stand! - not a good idea.



On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:30:20 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> So here’s a pic of the plate on an unpainted Glorius, which gives a pretty 
> good  view of the weld to one of the chainstays. (We’ve not bothered to put 
> the kickstand mounting hardware on this yet because it’s lightly ridden and 
> has not carried but the smallest loads.) 
>
> I agree that the plates are dainty relative to the sheer burliness of 
> bikes like the Bombadil and Hunqapillar. I also don’t see any technical 
> reason the plates could not be reinforced to withstand the sorts of loads 
> these burly bikes are built for. I would be fine with the additional weight 
> it would probably take.  I love how practical a double kickstand is and I’m 
> so used to it that I can’t imagine using a single on my Hunq.
>
> Joe, nothing you wrote was lame…  I think I alluded to the phone mount 
> being a weak point in Leah’s scenario without naming it specifically, and I 
> feel much more secure knowing you agree with my assessment!  
>
> [image: Glorius kickstand plate.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
>> kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
>> just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
>> process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
>> subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
>> dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
>> selling them. 
>>
>> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
>>> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
>>> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
 screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
 you ever screwed it down that hard. 


 A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it 
 tight. 

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount 
> that 
> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie 
> Bars! 
> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
> worth.)
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
> kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>
> Save the plate! Add some weight!
> -Kai
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>
>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>> both is this: 
>>
>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
>> I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
>> the 
>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the 
>> bike 
>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand 
>> wants 
>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will 
>> let 
>> you 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jason Fuller]

The Bombadil, despite being such a burly bike itself, has a most dainty 
kickstand plate - so much so that I've removed the kickstand from that bike 
just to avoid bending it and potentially damaging the chainstays in the 
process. Grant recognized the shortcoming and thickened the plate in 
subsequent models but like Joe rightly noted, the double leg kickstands are 
dangerous if not careful and this is, to my understanding, why Riv stopped 
selling them. 

On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 17:59:00 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
> redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
> repeated what he said. Lame! 浪
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
 both is this: 

 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
 stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
 completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
 fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
 start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
 to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
 warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
 you load all day until the plate gives up. 

 Whaddyathink? 

 Joe Bernard 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

You're welcome! Although I now realize my follow-up was completely 
redundant, i didn't notice Jim had mentioned the plastic clamp, too, I just 
repeated what he said. Lame! 浪

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:39:43 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. 
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>
>
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Leah Peterson]

Whew, thanks, guys! Super relieved. You have no idea. On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let you load all day until the plate gives up. Whaddyathink? Joe Bernard 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Brian Turner]

Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, but is it too tall an order to expect a kickstand plate that doesn’t shear off under normal circumstances? I mean, I figure if anyone is going to design a proper kickstand plate to fit a variety of stands and applications for use, it would be Rivendell, no?On Nov 6, 2022, at 6:00 PM, Jeffrey Arita  wrote:My wife and I each had Rivendells (me an AHH, my wife Betty Foy).  Both frame models each came with kickstand plates (yay!).  We spec'd both bikes with Greenfield single leg sidestands.  To our knowledge, the kickstand plates remained sturdy and attached.  But, both bikes were not loaded with a lot of gear or stuff - no racks and panniers, groceries, etc.  My wife did commute with her BF and she did carry extra clothing and shoes, but that was pretty much it.We've since sold the Rivs but definitely see the need for some sort of sidestand, especially while loaded touring.  We've got friends that have purchased Click-Stands and they hold a very well loaded bicycle.  The guy builds a solid product.  Just remember to use the front brake band and you're good-to-go.  I ended up making our own from tent pole pieces after seeing how simple they were.  Another possible solution that won't stress out any part of the bicycle.http://www.click-stand.com/Leah: if you are concerned about your smartphone bicycle mount, consider getting a Quad Lock.  They are pricey, but we feel it is well worth it.  We've used them for years now (6+) cyclotouring on- and off-road and they have kept our phones safe and secure.https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-cycleGood luck,Jeff & Lori AritaClaremont, CAOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:[ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?" ]I'm always here to help! ‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for me! On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting 
Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread

into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, I just installed my 
new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short time that I owned it. I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with their kickstand plates. What I plan on doing is to remove my 
Pletscher two legged kickstand and put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third owner in less than a year. Kim HetzelYelm, WA.On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you ever screwed it down that hard. A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Jeffrey Arita]

My wife and I each had Rivendells (me an AHH, my wife Betty Foy).  Both 
frame models each came with kickstand plates (yay!).  We spec'd both bikes 
with Greenfield *single *leg sidestands.  To our knowledge, the kickstand 
plates remained sturdy and attached.  But, both bikes were *not *loaded 
with a lot of gear or stuff - no racks and panniers, groceries, etc.  My 
wife did commute with her BF and she did carry extra clothing and shoes, 
but that was pretty much it.

We've since sold the Rivs but definitely see the need for some sort of 
sidestand, especially while loaded touring.  We've got friends that have 
purchased Click-Stands and they hold a very well loaded bicycle.  The guy 
builds a solid product.  Just remember to use the front brake band and 
you're good-to-go.  I ended up making our own from tent pole pieces after 
seeing how simple they were.  Another possible solution that won't stress 
out any part of the bicycle.

http://www.click-stand.com/

Leah: if you are concerned about your smartphone bicycle mount, consider 
getting a Quad Lock.  They are pricey, but we feel it is well worth it.  
We've used them for years now (6+) cyclotouring on- and *off-road* and they 
have kept our phones safe and secure.

https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-cycle

Good luck,

Jeff & Lori Arita
Claremont, CA

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> [ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
> ?" ]
>
> I'm always here to help! ‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 
>
> I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
> tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
> out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
> me! 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:
>
>> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
>> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
>> ?"
>>
>> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
>> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
>> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
>> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
>> time that I owned it. 
>>
>> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
>> their kickstand plates. 
>>
>> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
>> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
>> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
>> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
>> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
>> owner in less than a year. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
 opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
 worth.)
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
 wrote:

 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

 Save the plate! Add some weight!
 -Kai

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
> I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
> the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

Man that's alotta typos.

* how to park my bike without scraping it on poles and walls.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> [ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
> ?" ]
>
> I'm always here to help! ‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 
>
> I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
> tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
> out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
> me! 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:
>
>> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
>> thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
>> ?"
>>
>> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
>> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
>> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
>> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
>> time that I owned it. 
>>
>> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
>> their kickstand plates. 
>>
>> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
>> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
>> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
>> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
>> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
>> owner in less than a year. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>>
>>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
 ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
 affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
 I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
 it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
 opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
 worth.)
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
 wrote:

 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

 Save the plate! Add some weight!
 -Kai

 On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
> I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on 
> the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand 
> wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

[ I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' 
thread into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that 
?" ]

I'm always here to help! ‍♂️ Or annoy people, depending on your POV! 

I'm definitely going to keep my one-legger and try not to snap anything. I 
tried kickstandless for a few weeks and it drove me nuts trying to figure 
out how to part my bike with scraping it on poles and walls. Kickstands for 
me! 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:

> I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread 
> into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"
>
> Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, 
> I just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
> shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
> same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
> time that I owned it. 
>
> I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
> their kickstand plates. 
>
> What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and 
> put the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
> order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
> rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
> legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
> owner in less than a year. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
>> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
>> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>>
>> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and 
>>> ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that 
>>> affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! 
>>> I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if 
>>> it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an 
>>> opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s 
>>> worth.)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>>
>>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
 Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 

 Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
 single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
 both is this: 

 I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, 
 I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
 stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
 completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
 fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
 start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
 to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
 warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
 you load all day until the plate gives up. 

 Whaddyathink? 

 Joe Bernard 

>>> -- 
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/cCxr_1kwTm0/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c17c3da-8f87-4597-b5a5-8e87f438fcfcn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kim Hetzel]

I thank-you Joe Bernard for diverting Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread 
into a separate thread about "Kickstand plates, what's up with that ?"

Upon you doing this, your timing is perfect. Like I mentioned previously, I 
just installed my new Pletscher two legged kickstand and the new rubber 
shoes for the feet of the stand on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. I had the 
same set-up on my 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker with no issues in the short 
time that I owned it. 

I am very grateful to read all the valuable input and experiences with 
their kickstand plates. 

What I plan on doing is to remove my Pletscher two legged kickstand and put 
the single kickstand back on my bike for the time being. I am going to 
order the Pletscher kickstand hardware from Rivendell and install the 
rubber chain stay protectors with the long bolt and reinstall the two 
legged kickstand. I want to preserve my kickstand plate being the third 
owner in less than a year. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 11:10:44 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand 
> screw and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if 
> you ever screwed it down that hard. 
>
> A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/cCxr_1kwTm0/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c17c3da-8f87-4597-b5a5-8e87f438fcfcn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Joe Bernard]

Seconding Jim's thoughts about your phone mount. I see a turn-by-hand screw 
and plastic clamp, you'll break the clamp before crushing the bar if you 
ever screwed it down that hard. 

A little blue Loctite on the threads of that screw should keep it tight. 

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
> wrote:
>
> 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>
> Save the plate! Add some weight!
> -Kai
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
>> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>
>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>> both is this: 
>>
>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>
>> Whaddyathink? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/cCxr_1kwTm0/unsubscribe
> .
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[lconley]

Now y'all got me thinking. My cargo bike is a first shipment Clementine. I 
had been using a double kickstand with a sandwich plate, but when I filed 
the hole in the plate off-center to let the double kickstand offset to 
clear the 2.15 tire better, I went back to the allen bolt. So now I got the 
Dremel tool out and worked on one side of the sandwich plate so that I can 
use it with the offset kickstand. I wish the sandwich plates were wider. 
Probably need a little more grinding.

[image: kicks.jpg]

The kickstand plate on my Gus is definitely thicker and already has an 
offset hole - I use a single kickstand on it.

Laing

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[aeroperf]

It is certainly not just Riv bikes.
My second bike is a Soma Saga Disc, which has the same geometry as my Sam 
but with a slightly lower top tube.
They even warn about the problem (first and last paragraphs):
https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/saga-disc-frame-set-2

I use Kai's solution on the Sam.  No hint of a problem yet.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Eric Floden]

The plate came off my Bomba this year. I am far from the first owner, but I
only used it with a two-legged stand,
and never with more than a light load on the bike

Signed

Ilene
EricF Vancouver

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Piaw Na]

I'm curious as to how much load you folks are putting on the kickstand? 
When I bought my triplet/quad Co-Motion Periscope Trident, the shop talked 
me into letting them install a kickstand. My son was 3.5 years old at the 
time. After about 3 years of use the kickstand bent and I ditched it and 
haven't missed it whatsoever. It rattled, worked itself loose, and simply 
wasn't worth the effort (it was a double-legged Pletscher), but the 
kickstand plate never had an issue. Bear in mind that the triplet was 65 
pounds empty, and when loaded with a touring load would exceed 80 pounds. I 
know Rivendells have a reputation for being heavy but I doubt if any of 
them compare to my Co-Motion.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 5:42:51 AM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> Thanks for kicking the kickstand plates to a new thread, Joe!! I'm sorry I 
> veered off your original topic, Leah!
>
> I looked back at the email exchanges I had with Riv about the severed 
> plate. Below I included the photo I had sent them.
>
> Their responses were interesting: 
>
>1. The kickstand plate on Hunq is *designed for the singles* (my 
>emphasis added)
>2. The doubles have more torque and are heavier so it tends to peel 
>the plate back after a lot of use. 
>3. Yes, you can definitely just use the chainstay sandwich set and 
>it'll be problem solved. Run the long bolt through the plate and it'll be 
>good to go. It's not a load bearing connection so don't worry about it 
>peeling back. 
>4. A competent welder could fix it easily, but I wouldn't even worry 
>about it.
>
> What I wonder about is at what point Rivendell determined that the plate 
> was designed for single kickstands on the Hunq. I suspect they were 
> surprised  to see numerous instances of these peeling plate problems 
> because Riv tends to over-engineer and overbuild things. If it was 
> *originally* designed for singles, I don’t think Riv would have sold me a 
> double and installed it on my Hunq as part of my original purchase order, 
> parts list they recommended, and build they did for me. 
>
> Whether designed for single or double kickstands, I did not take any 
> chances on subsequent bikes in this household: on the Wilbury I used a 
> chainstay sandwich mounting set even though it is a single kickstand. (See 
> second photo.) It's not as elegant as mounting directly to the built-on 
> plate, but it does give some peace of mind.
>
> Leah, as far as your phone mount goes, I think your bars are probably safe 
> if you're tightening it by hand. Even if your forearms are as strong as 
> Popeye's, I suspect that the mount itself would break before you could 
> torque it down enough by hand to impact the Billie bars. The chainstay 
> mashing can happen with sufficient torque that can only come from the 
> leverage you can get with a wrench. I'm not sure even Popeye could mash the 
> steel chain stays by hand :) 
>
>
> [image: Hunq kickstand plate.jpg]
>
> [image: Wilbury kickstand.jpg]
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:33:20 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Marc Irwin]

I did break the kickstand plate on my Hunq the first year I had it.  I'm 
not sure what exactly caused it, but I was using a Pletscher two legged 
kickstand on several overnight and week long tours.  The bike was heavily 
loaded and I had never trimmed the length of the kickstand legs.  I suspect 
the extra leverage and weight was enough to tear the plate from the 
brazing.  Riv offered to replace the plate if I shipped the bike back, but 
I had them send me a new plate so I could have it done locally.  I decided 
against it because it was not a structural defect and just went without.

Marc

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 8:42:51 AM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> Thanks for kicking the kickstand plates to a new thread, Joe!! I'm sorry I 
> veered off your original topic, Leah!
>
> I looked back at the email exchanges I had with Riv about the severed 
> plate. Below I included the photo I had sent them.
>
> Their responses were interesting: 
>
>1. The kickstand plate on Hunq is *designed for the singles* (my 
>emphasis added)
>2. The doubles have more torque and are heavier so it tends to peel 
>the plate back after a lot of use. 
>3. Yes, you can definitely just use the chainstay sandwich set and 
>it'll be problem solved. Run the long bolt through the plate and it'll be 
>good to go. It's not a load bearing connection so don't worry about it 
>peeling back. 
>4. A competent welder could fix it easily, but I wouldn't even worry 
>about it.
>
> What I wonder about is at what point Rivendell determined that the plate 
> was designed for single kickstands on the Hunq. I suspect they were 
> surprised  to see numerous instances of these peeling plate problems 
> because Riv tends to over-engineer and overbuild things. If it was 
> *originally* designed for singles, I don’t think Riv would have sold me a 
> double and installed it on my Hunq as part of my original purchase order, 
> parts list they recommended, and build they did for me. 
>
> Whether designed for single or double kickstands, I did not take any 
> chances on subsequent bikes in this household: on the Wilbury I used a 
> chainstay sandwich mounting set even though it is a single kickstand. (See 
> second photo.) It's not as elegant as mounting directly to the built-on 
> plate, but it does give some peace of mind.
>
> Leah, as far as your phone mount goes, I think your bars are probably safe 
> if you're tightening it by hand. Even if your forearms are as strong as 
> Popeye's, I suspect that the mount itself would break before you could 
> torque it down enough by hand to impact the Billie bars. The chainstay 
> mashing can happen with sufficient torque that can only come from the 
> leverage you can get with a wrench. I'm not sure even Popeye could mash the 
> steel chain stays by hand :) 
>
>
> [image: Hunq kickstand plate.jpg]
>
> [image: Wilbury kickstand.jpg]
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 7:33:20 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining 
>> the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes 
>> to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find 
>> myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s 
>> because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion 
>> here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
>>
>> Save the plate! Add some weight!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer 
>>> Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>>>
>>> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
>>> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
>>> both is this: 
>>>
>>> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
>>> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
>>> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
>>> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
>>> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
>>> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
>>> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
>>> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
>>> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>>>
>>> Whaddyathink? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Leah Peterson]

I read the product description which warns of over tightening and ruining the frame. And then I thought of my new phone handlebar mount that affixes to the bar like a vice and wondered if I’m ruining my Billie Bars! I find myself having to tighten it a smidge now and then, and I wonder if it’s because it’s mashing the aluminum Billie Bar. Can anyone offer an opinion here? (I got a new iPhone and it’s huge and heavy, for what it’s worth.)On Nov 6, 2022, at 7:10 AM, Kainalu V.  -Brooklyn NY  wrote:https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241Save the plate! Add some weight!-KaiOn Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with both is this: I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let you load all day until the plate gives up. Whaddyathink? Joe Bernard 



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[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241
Save the plate! Add some weight!
-Kai

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:12:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I thought I'd bring this over here instead of continuing to hammer Leah's 
> 'Using Your Rivendell' thread. 
>
> Do we have any reports of plates separating from the stays from a 
> single-leg kickstand, or are they all double-leggers? My experience with 
> both is this: 
>
> I used a double-legger on a Clem and could really load that bike up, I'm 
> familiar with that rocking sensation of all the weight torquing on the 
> stand. On my custom I use a single leg (the stock one that came on Clem 
> completes a few years ago) and it's not very strong. It supports the bike 
> fine and I can put a small shopping load in the bags, but as soon as I 
> start to overdo it I can feel the bike getting wobbly like the stand wants 
> to give out on me. My guess in this scenario is the single-legger is 
> warning me before the plate gets too stressed, whilst the double will let 
> you load all day until the plate gives up. 
>
> Whaddyathink? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>

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