[RBW] Re: Tires, was making Clem a Gravel Bike

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 2:47:30 PM UTC-5 I wrote:

That section is from Soma, not Riv, and it says, "There is a pervasive myth 
that thin, "supple" tire sidewalls are essential to a smooth and cushy 
ride. That is misleading at best, bullshit at worst."  (I could be wrong, 
but I don't think Grant has ever sworn like that in anything he's 
published, btw.)

Hmmm, after further research I think that's directly from RBW, not them 
quoting Soma. Sorry about that. And, disappointed that RBW/Grant feel the 
need to be so edgy about the topic. Soma also sells the Supple Vitesse, 
about which they say, "Its superlight casing not only reduces rotational 
weight, but also reduces its rolling resistance and does an amazing job at 
smoothing out the road."

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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[RBW] Re: Tires, tubes and Cliffhangers

[DavidP]

I have bikes with a variety of wheel sizes and mostly stock up on 27.5 
tubes as they work with 26-29" wheels. I try not to stray too much from the 
tube's recommended tire width though.

That said if the smaller 26" tube is preventing the tire beads from fitting 
into the center of the rim while mounting that will make things difficult.

Another thing to consider is that most tubeless rims are designed to have a 
tighter rim/tire interface. On tubeless rims I use tubeless tape as a rim 
strip even if I'm going to use tubes, as the added thickness of regular rim 
strips makes tire mounting more difficult.

-Dave
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 11:52:32 PM UTC-4 jcbrya...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've not mounted the Homage, but I've mounted a wide array of tires to 
> Cliffhangers, both in 26 and 650b. Wire bead tires are fairly easy to 
> mount, especially with the depth of the well and the amount of internal 
> space. A bit harder time than I've had with other rims, but not so bad. 
> Tight-fitting tubeless tires can be quite difficult to mount, especially 
> when brand new, and especially with the use of a tube. I probably spent a 
> solid hour mounting WTB Byways, broke at least one tire lever, and worried 
> I was using so much force I was going to damage the rim, but it ended up 
> working out. However, with these tighter fits, I've found them quite easy 
> to set up tubeless.
>
> I recently mounted some Race Kings and the fit was so tight they held air 
> overnight before I added any sealant. I also find it easier to use a tube 
> to get things seated. I mount the tire normally with a tube, check for 
> proper seating, then leave it for a while pumped around max PSI, usually 
> just trying to get the weirdness out where they were folded up in the 
> packaging. Sometimes it takes a few days of riding. I then deflate and 
> remove the tube while leaving one side seated. Once it's out, I mount the 
> valve, push the side I opened back into the well, give it a strong blast of 
> air, and it usually pops right back into place. I've found it easiest to 
> add sealant through the valve (removable cores), versus pouring it into the 
> unmounted tire.
>
> With all this said, my experience tells me the Cliffhangers offer a solid, 
> tight fit for all the tires I've mounted. If you can get the simworks tires 
> to hold air without a tube, then I reckon you're halfway there. I'm not 
> sure of the safety of running standard tires tubeless, but I've read plenty 
> of stories about people's tubeless-compatible RH tires blowing off the rim, 
> so I'd bet it's no more dangerous than that.
>
> re: the Rene Herse/tube advice - they offer a lot of wisdom, but I try to 
> take everything they say with a grain of salt, remembering their primary 
> goal is to sell products. Despite their recommendations for their tires, I 
> don't think you can go wrong buying the "right size" tubes for the right 
> size tires. Sure, tubes do stretch, and it should work in theory, but I'm 
> not counting grams and I don't quite see the benefit of undersizing tubes 
> beyond that. The manufacturers have already done the work for me, spec'ing 
> tubes for tires, so I'm not going out of my way to try and outsmart them.
>
> Good luck with the tires! I hope you're able to get them mounted up.
>
> -J.C.
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:04:59 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Vague heading, sorry. Has anyone mounted Simworks Homage tires to 
>> Cliffhanger rims? The Homage is not "tubeless compatible" though plenty of 
>> folks have done it anyway. But I do not know about doing so with a 
>> Cliffhanger?
>> I am mounting mine with tubes, at least to start. But I ran into a 
>> problem. I was on the Rene Herse site and they supply 26" Schwalbe tubes 
>> for their 650B tires. They indicate they stretch to fit and do not even 
>> offer 27.5 tubes. Well, I tried. With a 26" tube it was impossible to mount 
>> the tire. After trying for about 40 minutes I tried it with a 27.5" tube - 
>> mounted easily. Why would Rene Herse suggest such a thing? Why did I 
>> believe them?
>> Anyway, I am looking forward to giving these 55mm beauties a go.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires, tubes and Cliffhangers

[J.C. Bryant]

I've not mounted the Homage, but I've mounted a wide array of tires to 
Cliffhangers, both in 26 and 650b. Wire bead tires are fairly easy to 
mount, especially with the depth of the well and the amount of internal 
space. A bit harder time than I've had with other rims, but not so bad. 
Tight-fitting tubeless tires can be quite difficult to mount, especially 
when brand new, and especially with the use of a tube. I probably spent a 
solid hour mounting WTB Byways, broke at least one tire lever, and worried 
I was using so much force I was going to damage the rim, but it ended up 
working out. However, with these tighter fits, I've found them quite easy 
to set up tubeless.

I recently mounted some Race Kings and the fit was so tight they held air 
overnight before I added any sealant. I also find it easier to use a tube 
to get things seated. I mount the tire normally with a tube, check for 
proper seating, then leave it for a while pumped around max PSI, usually 
just trying to get the weirdness out where they were folded up in the 
packaging. Sometimes it takes a few days of riding. I then deflate and 
remove the tube while leaving one side seated. Once it's out, I mount the 
valve, push the side I opened back into the well, give it a strong blast of 
air, and it usually pops right back into place. I've found it easiest to 
add sealant through the valve (removable cores), versus pouring it into the 
unmounted tire.

With all this said, my experience tells me the Cliffhangers offer a solid, 
tight fit for all the tires I've mounted. If you can get the simworks tires 
to hold air without a tube, then I reckon you're halfway there. I'm not 
sure of the safety of running standard tires tubeless, but I've read plenty 
of stories about people's tubeless-compatible RH tires blowing off the rim, 
so I'd bet it's no more dangerous than that.

re: the Rene Herse/tube advice - they offer a lot of wisdom, but I try to 
take everything they say with a grain of salt, remembering their primary 
goal is to sell products. Despite their recommendations for their tires, I 
don't think you can go wrong buying the "right size" tubes for the right 
size tires. Sure, tubes do stretch, and it should work in theory, but I'm 
not counting grams and I don't quite see the benefit of undersizing tubes 
beyond that. The manufacturers have already done the work for me, spec'ing 
tubes for tires, so I'm not going out of my way to try and outsmart them.

Good luck with the tires! I hope you're able to get them mounted up.

-J.C.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:04:59 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Vague heading, sorry. Has anyone mounted Simworks Homage tires to 
> Cliffhanger rims? The Homage is not "tubeless compatible" though plenty of 
> folks have done it anyway. But I do not know about doing so with a 
> Cliffhanger?
> I am mounting mine with tubes, at least to start. But I ran into a 
> problem. I was on the Rene Herse site and they supply 26" Schwalbe tubes 
> for their 650B tires. They indicate they stretch to fit and do not even 
> offer 27.5 tubes. Well, I tried. With a 26" tube it was impossible to mount 
> the tire. After trying for about 40 minutes I tried it with a 27.5" tube - 
> mounted easily. Why would Rene Herse suggest such a thing? Why did I 
> believe them?
> Anyway, I am looking forward to giving these 55mm beauties a go.
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Sale + Seat Posts+Rotors

[Tim Bantham]

Items #6 and 7 are sold along with the 26.8 seatpost. If you interested in 
any of the remaining items send me a DM along with your location so I can 
provide a shipping estimate. If you are not aware the average consumer like 
you and I pay  high prices for shipping. Please factor in the possibility 
of $15 yo $20 per item for shipping depending on location. I am located in 
New York.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-4 saintruggler wrote:

> PM sent for 26.8 seatpost.
>
> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 1:24:02 PM UTC-7 Tim Bantham wrote:
>
>> Hello Riv friends. Cleaned out my basement and organized my selection of 
>> used tires. Many, not all, had been set up tubeless at one time or another 
>> which means there is dried out sealant in them. Not harmful just worth 
>> noting.  All tires have adequate tread life except where noted. Payment via 
>> PayPal so that I net the full amount. You pay shipping. 
>>
>> #1 Clement LAS 700x33 File tread. Condition is fair. $20
>> #2 WTB Venture 50 700 x 50 Tubeless Ready. Good tread $60
>> #3 Clement X'Plor 700x40 Good Tread $40
>> #4 Kenda Kommando 700x33 Good Tread $40
>> #5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron 700x2.25  Good tread low mileage $80
>> #6 Continental RaceKing 700x2.00 Good tread. $40
>> #7 Compass/RH Snoqualmie Pass EL 700x42 Fair tread. Free with purchase of 
>> any set except #1. 
>> #8 Specialized Terra Pro 700x33 Good tread $40 
>>
>> Seatpost. These come with a Riv frame. Both are new take off. One is 
>> 26.8x300 and the other 29.8x300. $40 each. 
>>
>> Hope Disc Brake Rotors 160mm and 180mm $40 each. 
>>
>> Photos here 
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Sale + Seat Posts+Rotors

[saintruggler]

PM sent for 26.8 seatpost.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 1:24:02 PM UTC-7 Tim Bantham wrote:

> Hello Riv friends. Cleaned out my basement and organized my selection of 
> used tires. Many, not all, had been set up tubeless at one time or another 
> which means there is dried out sealant in them. Not harmful just worth 
> noting.  All tires have adequate tread life except where noted. Payment via 
> PayPal so that I net the full amount. You pay shipping. 
>
> #1 Clement LAS 700x33 File tread. Condition is fair. $20
> #2 WTB Venture 50 700 x 50 Tubeless Ready. Good tread $60
> #3 Clement X'Plor 700x40 Good Tread $40
> #4 Kenda Kommando 700x33 Good Tread $40
> #5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron 700x2.25  Good tread low mileage $80
> #6 Continental RaceKing 700x2.00 Good tread. $40
> #7 Compass/RH Snoqualmie Pass EL 700x42 Fair tread. Free with purchase of 
> any set except #1. 
> #8 Specialized Terra Pro 700x33 Good tread $40 
>
> Seatpost. These come with a Riv frame. Both are new take off. One is 
> 26.8x300 and the other 29.8x300. $40 each. 
>
> Hope Disc Brake Rotors 160mm and 180mm $40 each. 
>
> Photos here 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Sale + Seat Posts+Rotors

[jeffbog...@hotmail.com]

PMsent
On Sunday, 29 August 2021 at 15:24:02 UTC-5 Tim Bantham wrote:

> Hello Riv friends. Cleaned out my basement and organized my selection of 
> used tires. Many, not all, had been set up tubeless at one time or another 
> which means there is dried out sealant in them. Not harmful just worth 
> noting.  All tires have adequate tread life except where noted. Payment via 
> PayPal so that I net the full amount. You pay shipping. 
>
> #1 Clement LAS 700x33 File tread. Condition is fair. $20
> #2 WTB Venture 50 700 x 50 Tubeless Ready. Good tread $60
> #3 Clement X'Plor 700x40 Good Tread $40
> #4 Kenda Kommando 700x33 Good Tread $40
> #5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron 700x2.25  Good tread low mileage $80
> #6 Continental RaceKing 700x2.00 Good tread. $40
> #7 Compass/RH Snoqualmie Pass EL 700x42 Fair tread. Free with purchase of 
> any set except #1. 
> #8 Specialized Terra Pro 700x33 Good tread $40 
>
> Seatpost. These come with a Riv frame. Both are new take off. One is 
> 26.8x300 and the other 29.8x300. $40 each. 
>
> Hope Disc Brake Rotors 160mm and 180mm $40 each. 
>
> Photos here 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[George Millwood]

I bought an aluminium Cannondale Touring bike back in '98.  It was an 
ST1000 from memeory. I found it uncomfortable.  So I changed the seat, the 
stem (two or three times), the handlebars (three or four times)  , the seat 
post, the pedals, the tyres, added mudguards (fenders), mudflaps and 
finally, I swapped the frame out for an Atlantis.  Then, it was 
comfortable.  Now the steel may be the least consideration in the comfort 
factor and the design and sizing of the Atlantis may have been a bigger 
factor but it was a long road to comfort.  I'm with Andy, there are a lot 
more factors that make up comfort and comfort can only be measured by the 
rider.  

On Sunday, 23 August 2020 at 22:47:43 UTC+10 ascpgh wrote:

> If you narrow from a complicated system a single variable and measure it 
> with a selection of test items, you'll get data. Yes, a rigid frame's seat 
> post, saddle, wheel components and tires will contribute more to "comfort" 
> if you say vertical compliance equals comfort. What about lateral 
> compliance? Am I a loser or a non-cyclist because I value that? 
>
> The premise that aluminum frames are generally maligned as "uncomfortable" 
> may be true, but vertical compliance is but a single variable found in 
> complete bikes. If everything is harmonious, many factors will contribute 
> to that measures feature. 
>
> When I see a bike frame in a jig I hope it's for alignment, repair or 
> construction because if it's for testing to imply general conclusions about 
> bikes  (which have wheels, tires, crank arms, stems, handlebars and seats 
> in addition to seat posts), I cringe because of all the previous incarnate 
> machines' testing which purportedly sort out the entire how and with what 
> you build bikes question once and for all. 
>
> The reason we all spend time riding bikes, optimizing them, talking about 
> them and enjoying riding them as well as the experiences and discoveries of 
> others like us is that they are such simple appearing yet complex things 
> that easily elude jigged frame analysis. The variables of a bike and their 
> hierarchy of importance depends on the individual rider and we all know 
> there is a vast spectrum of those. That is the first generalization I take 
> offensively whenever analysis occurs. The assumption that every rider needs 
> "X" then leads to isolating what varies "X" and pacing examples on a scale 
> from good to bad. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 10:06:46 PM UTC-4 tc wrote:
>
>> Well-presented study of what affects comfort:
>> https://youtu.be/Lb4ktAbmr_4
>>
>> Tom
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[ascpgh]

If you narrow from a complicated system a single variable and measure it 
with a selection of test items, you'll get data. Yes, a rigid frame's seat 
post, saddle, wheel components and tires will contribute more to "comfort" 
if you say vertical compliance equals comfort. What about lateral 
compliance? Am I a loser or a non-cyclist because I value that? 

The premise that aluminum frames are generally maligned as "uncomfortable" 
may be true, but vertical compliance is but a single variable found in 
complete bikes. If everything is harmonious, many factors will contribute 
to that measures feature. 

When I see a bike frame in a jig I hope it's for alignment, repair or 
construction because if it's for testing to imply general conclusions about 
bikes  (which have wheels, tires, crank arms, stems, handlebars and seats 
in addition to seat posts), I cringe because of all the previous incarnate 
machines' testing which purportedly sort out the entire how and with what 
you build bikes question once and for all. 

The reason we all spend time riding bikes, optimizing them, talking about 
them and enjoying riding them as well as the experiences and discoveries of 
others like us is that they are such simple appearing yet complex things 
that easily elude jigged frame analysis. The variables of a bike and their 
hierarchy of importance depends on the individual rider and we all know 
there is a vast spectrum of those. That is the first generalization I take 
offensively whenever analysis occurs. The assumption that every rider needs 
"X" then leads to isolating what varies "X" and pacing examples on a scale 
from good to bad. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 10:06:46 PM UTC-4 tc wrote:

> Well-presented study of what affects comfort:
> https://youtu.be/Lb4ktAbmr_4
>
> Tom
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Ryan M.]

I had a Trek Emonda SL6 (full carbon bike with a bontrager saddle that 
looked like it would cut you in half and 25mm tires) for a few years and 
that bike was super comfortable and really fast feeling, especially going 
uphill. You wouldn't think that bike should have been as comfortable as it 
was, but it was. I did a lot of high mileage 100+ mile rides on that bike 
when I had it and rode it almost every day with a club.

Nowadays I split my time between my Appaloosa, my Frank Jones, and an 
aluminum full squish mtb and they are all pretty comfortable. I have found 
that for me, especially as I age, I want shorter crankset arms and a more 
relaxed upright position with bars that put my wrist at a comfortable 
angle. I am finding it increasingly uncomfortable to ride drop bars mostly 
because some "arthur-itis" in my hands and the angle drops put my hands 
don't allow me to have the grip strength to properly engage the brakes. I 
have not found that flex in the seat tube makes a difference. I mean, it 
may, but I'm not sure how much flex these bikes have in their seat 
tubes/seat post so I can't really say for sure.  I also think my days of 
doing really long rides are probably over.

Anyway, I've never really thought frame material makes a bike comfortable 
and comfort is more in the design of the individual bike and the fit 
regardless of material. 

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 9:06:46 PM UTC-5, tc wrote:
>
> Well-presented study of what affects comfort:
> https://youtu.be/Lb4ktAbmr_4
>
> Tom
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Ed Carolipio]

I don't disagree with what he says but he could have been done in a minute 
by stating the obvious: the up-and-down movement of your derriere is not 
driven by the frame material since it turns out double diamond frames are 
vertically stiff.

I'd recommend watching Jeff Jones demonstrate the purposely designed 
seatpost tube flex on his Spaceframe. https://youtu.be/rfGu3yGcnJQ?t=131 
Hang out until 3:17 to watch him demo the truss fork's "lateral stiffness". 
I also like how the design of the Spaceframe and the GBW seem to rhyme as 
their shapes hint that their designers wanted the frames to flex in similar 
ways.

--Ed C.

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:31:58 PM UTC-7 masmojo wrote:

> That guy in the video is a little annoying, but the information is spot 
> on!  (One reason I don't really enjoy the handful of seat post Concept)  
> Old aluminum Cannondale's, Kleins and other Aluminum bikes were VERY stiff 
> and definitely would beat you up even with sloping top tubes and long seat 
> posts. My Klein Pinnacle race bike was brutal; when I changed to the steel 
> Fat City I was so much faster and less beat up at the end of the day! 
> Modern aluminum tubes are better constructed and. the frames designed with 
> the characteristics of the tubes in mind.
> Titanium bikes DO ride like Butter!
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[masmojo]

That guy in the video is a little annoying, but the information is spot 
on!  (One reason I don't really enjoy the handful of seat post Concept)  
Old aluminum Cannondale's, Kleins and other Aluminum bikes were VERY stiff 
and definitely would beat you up even with sloping top tubes and long seat 
posts. My Klein Pinnacle race bike was brutal; when I changed to the steel 
Fat City I was so much faster and less beat up at the end of the day! 
Modern aluminum tubes are better constructed and. the frames designed with 
the characteristics of the tubes in mind.
Titanium bikes DO ride like Butter!

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 2:19:25 PM UTC-7 Andrew Turner wrote:

> …Hell, if I had the money, the eye for carbon and murdered-out 
> componentry, and rode bikes for no purpose other than to ride a bike, I 
> probably would prefer the ride quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the 
> fattest Rene Herse EL tires, over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s.
>

Rene Herse tires may be manufactured to the highest quality and standards, 
but Open frames are apparently not . Maybe 
the vintage Trek 720 is better after all. :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 8/21/20 5:19 PM, Andrew Turner wrote:
I like this guy's videos as they're very thorough but not daunting. 
It's not exactly anything super controversial though. Basically all 
frames have  close to 0 vertical compliance by themselves before 
factoring in seatposts, tires, etc. Totally checks out, frames use the 
same tech as bridges for Pete's sake. Now he's including a lot of 
footage of carbon yet the title is only steel vs. aluminum...perhaps 
that's due to his touring background though.


Vertical compliance is only one part of the equation though. These 
people in the comments saying they've gone from steel to alloy to 
carbon and back to steel, defending it as the most comfortable are 
missing the point of the video. There are other factors that play into 
why you might prefer one over the other. Hell, if I had the money, the 
eye for carbon and murdered-out componentry, and rode bikes for no 
purpose other than to ride a bike, I probably would prefer the ride 
quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the fattest Rene Herse EL tires, 
over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s.



That vintage 720 probably came with 27 x 1 1/4" tires, the equivalent of 
a 700x32. http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/1983/83Trek14.jpg





But I don't have that kind of money for bikes, I like the way lugged 
steel looks more, and I can 650b that trek, add racks and bags to 
transport me and things, crank that quill stem up to the sky, and ride 
equally as comfortable as the Open at a fraction of the cost and at a 
fraction of the speed ;)



That vintage 720 is no slouch.  It was respected then and it is still 
respected.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Andrew Turner]

I like this guy's videos as they're very thorough but not daunting. It's 
not exactly anything super controversial though. Basically all frames have  
close to 0 vertical compliance by themselves before factoring in seatposts, 
tires, etc. Totally checks out, frames use the same tech as bridges for 
Pete's sake. Now he's including a lot of footage of carbon yet the title is 
only steel vs. aluminum...perhaps that's due to his touring background 
though. 

Vertical compliance is only one part of the equation though. These people 
in the comments saying they've gone from steel to alloy to carbon and back 
to steel, defending it as the most comfortable are missing the point of the 
video. There are other factors that play into why you might prefer one over 
the other. Hell, if I had the money, the eye for carbon and murdered-out 
componentry, and rode bikes for no purpose other than to ride a bike, I 
probably would prefer the ride quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the 
fattest Rene Herse EL tires, over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s. 

But I don't have that kind of money for bikes, I like the way lugged steel 
looks more, and I can 650b that trek, add racks and bags to transport me 
and things, crank that quill stem up to the sky, and ride equally as 
comfortable as the Open at a fraction of the cost and at a fraction of the 
speed ;) 
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 9:06:46 PM UTC-5 tc wrote:

> Well-presented study of what affects comfort:
> https://youtu.be/Lb4ktAbmr_4
>
> Tom
>

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[RBW] Re: tires

[Joel Stern]

Thank you, is that another google group?

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:17:37 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:
>
> There is a thread on the 650b group on tires, which may pertain here. I 
> used to have the Bleriot and it can fit 42mm tires with fenders. For this 
> width, I think the other thread mentioned GB Hetres, Rene Herse Babyshoe 
> Pass, and Panaracer Parimoto and Gravelking slicks. There are probably 
> other possibilities: Panaracer Pasela in various widths, Soma Grand 
> Randonneurs. 
>
> There is a wealth of variety of 650b tires in the 35mm to 50mm now!
>
> Franklyn
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:03:03 PM UTC-7 Joel Stern wrote:
>
>> That should be and one Panaracer, sorry for the typo
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:59:33 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:
>>>
>>> I currently have Grand Bois on the Bleriot. They start out with very 
>>> little tread and now are pretty slick. I miscalculated the miles on my 
>>> bike, the speedometer says just under 7,000 miles, I think this was a new 
>>> computer when I put it on the bike so this bike may very well have this 
>>> mileage. I have 2 more sets of these same tires but I also have a NOS set 
>>> of Nifty Swifty's, stored in my basement and look fine, as one Panaracer 
>>> Col De Vie Randonee with another that was used on the rollers as a rear 
>>> tire with a fork mount, maybe a dozen times and looks new. I am looking for 
>>> the smoothest most comfortable ride... both to protect my back and my 
>>> hands. Any thoughts from those that have used these or is there another 
>>> tire to consider?
>>>
>>> Thanks much
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: tires

[Joel Stern]

Thanks

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:38:20 PM UTC-4, ttoshi wrote:
>
> My best price performance point is with GB Hetre ELs, but Gravelkings have 
> better flat protection (not quite as nice ride imo). I have not tried the 
> SOMA GRs, which are priced well too.
>
> Lots of nice tires as Franklyn says.
>
> Toshi
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:17 PM franklyn > 
> wrote:
>
>> There is a thread on the 650b group on tires, which may pertain here. I 
>> used to have the Bleriot and it can fit 42mm tires with fenders. For this 
>> width, I think the other thread mentioned GB Hetres, Rene Herse Babyshoe 
>> Pass, and Panaracer Parimoto and Gravelking slicks. There are probably 
>> other possibilities: Panaracer Pasela in various widths, Soma Grand 
>> Randonneurs. 
>>
>> There is a wealth of variety of 650b tires in the 35mm to 50mm now!
>>
>> Franklyn
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:03:03 PM UTC-7 Joel Stern wrote:
>>
>>> That should be and one Panaracer, sorry for the typo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:59:33 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:

 I currently have Grand Bois on the Bleriot. They start out with very 
 little tread and now are pretty slick. I miscalculated the miles on my 
 bike, the speedometer says just under 7,000 miles, I think this was a new 
 computer when I put it on the bike so this bike may very well have this 
 mileage. I have 2 more sets of these same tires but I also have a NOS set 
 of Nifty Swifty's, stored in my basement and look fine, as one Panaracer 
 Col De Vie Randonee with another that was used on the rollers as a rear 
 tire with a fork mount, maybe a dozen times and looks new. I am looking 
 for 
 the smoothest most comfortable ride... both to protect my back and my 
 hands. Any thoughts from those that have used these or is there another 
 tire to consider?

 Thanks much

 Joel

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: tires

[Toshi Takeuchi]

My best price performance point is with GB Hetre ELs, but Gravelkings have
better flat protection (not quite as nice ride imo). I have not tried the
SOMA GRs, which are priced well too.

Lots of nice tires as Franklyn says.

Toshi


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:17 PM franklyn  wrote:

> There is a thread on the 650b group on tires, which may pertain here. I
> used to have the Bleriot and it can fit 42mm tires with fenders. For this
> width, I think the other thread mentioned GB Hetres, Rene Herse Babyshoe
> Pass, and Panaracer Parimoto and Gravelking slicks. There are probably
> other possibilities: Panaracer Pasela in various widths, Soma Grand
> Randonneurs.
>
> There is a wealth of variety of 650b tires in the 35mm to 50mm now!
>
> Franklyn
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:03:03 PM UTC-7 Joel Stern wrote:
>
>> That should be and one Panaracer, sorry for the typo
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:59:33 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:
>>>
>>> I currently have Grand Bois on the Bleriot. They start out with very
>>> little tread and now are pretty slick. I miscalculated the miles on my
>>> bike, the speedometer says just under 7,000 miles, I think this was a new
>>> computer when I put it on the bike so this bike may very well have this
>>> mileage. I have 2 more sets of these same tires but I also have a NOS set
>>> of Nifty Swifty's, stored in my basement and look fine, as one Panaracer
>>> Col De Vie Randonee with another that was used on the rollers as a rear
>>> tire with a fork mount, maybe a dozen times and looks new. I am looking for
>>> the smoothest most comfortable ride... both to protect my back and my
>>> hands. Any thoughts from those that have used these or is there another
>>> tire to consider?
>>>
>>> Thanks much
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
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> .
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[RBW] Re: tires

[franklyn]

There is a thread on the 650b group on tires, which may pertain here. I 
used to have the Bleriot and it can fit 42mm tires with fenders. For this 
width, I think the other thread mentioned GB Hetres, Rene Herse Babyshoe 
Pass, and Panaracer Parimoto and Gravelking slicks. There are probably 
other possibilities: Panaracer Pasela in various widths, Soma Grand 
Randonneurs. 

There is a wealth of variety of 650b tires in the 35mm to 50mm now!

Franklyn
On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:03:03 PM UTC-7 Joel Stern wrote:

> That should be and one Panaracer, sorry for the typo
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:59:33 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:
>>
>> I currently have Grand Bois on the Bleriot. They start out with very 
>> little tread and now are pretty slick. I miscalculated the miles on my 
>> bike, the speedometer says just under 7,000 miles, I think this was a new 
>> computer when I put it on the bike so this bike may very well have this 
>> mileage. I have 2 more sets of these same tires but I also have a NOS set 
>> of Nifty Swifty's, stored in my basement and look fine, as one Panaracer 
>> Col De Vie Randonee with another that was used on the rollers as a rear 
>> tire with a fork mount, maybe a dozen times and looks new. I am looking for 
>> the smoothest most comfortable ride... both to protect my back and my 
>> hands. Any thoughts from those that have used these or is there another 
>> tire to consider?
>>
>> Thanks much
>>
>> Joel
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: tires

[Joel Stern]

That should be and one Panaracer, sorry for the typo

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:59:33 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:
>
> I currently have Grand Bois on the Bleriot. They start out with very 
> little tread and now are pretty slick. I miscalculated the miles on my 
> bike, the speedometer says just under 7,000 miles, I think this was a new 
> computer when I put it on the bike so this bike may very well have this 
> mileage. I have 2 more sets of these same tires but I also have a NOS set 
> of Nifty Swifty's, stored in my basement and look fine, as one Panaracer 
> Col De Vie Randonee with another that was used on the rollers as a rear 
> tire with a fork mount, maybe a dozen times and looks new. I am looking for 
> the smoothest most comfortable ride... both to protect my back and my 
> hands. Any thoughts from those that have used these or is there another 
> tire to consider?
>
> Thanks much
>
> Joel
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Conway Bennett]

Pancake,

I have these Specialized tires too.  Not supple but slick and durable.  These I 
belt are also out of production.  I would bundle all four for $60 net to me.

https://www.amaincycling.com/specialized-fatboy-tire-tan-sidewall-29-x-1.7-700c-x-45mm-003e-0345-p/p578879

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Pancake]

>
> The Compass tire is nice but I had to many issues so I had the Shikoro 48s 
> on my 56 Sam. NOt as supple but smooth and no flats.

Very good to hear, maybe this will be my next tire ... for now I've got the 
38mm G-one speed tires arriving in the mail today (hopefully). Very helpful 
to know (1) the 48mm Shikoro fits and (2) they flat less ... my Snoqualmie 
pass tires got too many goathead flats which lead me to get them setup 
tubeless, which lead to this tubeless failure from too high pressure and/or 
too worn tires. 44mm seemed great size for the Sam, but I'm curious to try 
"narrow" 38mm tires again for the first time in several years. 

My current setup is the Snoqualmie tires with tubes, I'll wear them down 
until May when I'll try the g-one speed tires on my second Century ride 
(Santa Rosa Wine Country Century for anyone who might be there too!). I 
keep 2 oz of Panaracer Smart Seal tubeless sealant in the tubes for the 
goat heads now that I'm not tubeless anymore.

I have a set of resist nomad 700 x 45d in skinwall which came off of my Sam 
> Hillborne that I that I would sell.  Total dark horse in this category and 
> I believe they are out of production.

I've never heard of these (please PM me a price shipped to Napa, CA). A 
quick googling about showed some positive reviews about these significantly 
lower price tires ($23 new currently). Though, as you said, not available 
in skinwall anymore .. but they are available in all black or *bright red* 
sidewall:
https://demolitionparts.com/product/nomad-tires-by-resist-parts/



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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Conway Bennett]

I have a set of resist nomad 700 x 45d in skinwall which came off of my Sam 
Hillborne that I that I would sell.  Total dark horse in this category and I 
believe they are out of production.

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Hayden]

The Compass tire is nice but I had to many issues so I had the Shikoro 48s 
on my 56 Sam. NOt as supple but smooth and no flats.



On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 4:54:23 PM UTC-7, Pancake wrote:
>
> My Compass Snoqualmie Pass tires are worn out according to Rene Herse - 
> the rear tire blew (it was setup tubeless), probably I was running a 
> pressure too high (at the tubeless max, 60 psi). Now that I’m looking to 
> replace them I was considering these wider 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple 
> Vitesse EX TR tires. Can anybody talk me out of these or into something 
> better? I’d like them to be tubeless compatible, but it’s not necessary. 
> Could go for anything between 40mm and whatever the limit for the Sam with 
> no fenders (apparently up to 45mm but some have fit up to 50mm depending on 
> the rim and brake setup). 
>
> My rims are Alex Adventurer II (slightly less wise than Cliffhangers, but 
> wider than Atlas rims). 
>
> Abe “what was the popping noise!” in Napa

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Pancake]

I suspect the Soma Supple Vitesse would have fit based on the Big Bens that 
barely fit according to these photos from another list member:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/with/15831687195/

But I’m happy with having ordered the 38mm g-one speed tires. I’ll wear them 
out and call it a learning experience ... now where to find those 2,000+ miles 
to wear them down ... 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Jason Fuller]

I love Rene Herse tires but I would buy a different brand for tubeless. 
They seem to be more fickle than other brands for tubeless. Maybe the 
endurance casing is better?  

60 psi is very high for 44c, I run my 42c at 40 - 45 psi.  That would be 
the first adjustment I would make, personally.  48c ought to be 35 - 40 psi 
IMO, maybe 45 if you're bigger / carrying loads  

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Michael Baquerizo]

Did you order them in the 38? Curious to know once you mount them if you 
think you could have bumped up a size (especially if you think you could 
and fenders would still fit)

On Tuesday, March 10, 2020 at 12:47:05 PM UTC-4, Pancake wrote:
>
> I’m convinced Adam, though I ordered the “Speed” because that’s what I 
> have on my Rosco Baby (albeit in 60mm width) and I really enjoy them. I 
> don’t get the Sam in much dirt (the Rosco, my Cheviot, or, if needed, my 
> Salsa El Mariachi!) so it’s my “go slightly faster bike” that will enjoy 
> much more pavement and occasional gravel/dirt. 
>
> No tan sidewalls, not as wide, but a bit cheaper and possibly better 
> puncture resistance than the Snoqualmie Pass tires I guess. 
>
> Abe

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Pancake]

I’m convinced Adam, though I ordered the “Speed” because that’s what I have on 
my Rosco Baby (albeit in 60mm width) and I really enjoy them. I don’t get the 
Sam in much dirt (the Rosco, my Cheviot, or, if needed, my Salsa El Mariachi!) 
so it’s my “go slightly faster bike” that will enjoy much more pavement and 
occasional gravel/dirt. 

No tan sidewalls, not as wide, but a bit cheaper and possibly better puncture 
resistance than the Snoqualmie Pass tires I guess. 

Abe

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Adam Leibow]

try Schwalbe All Around 700x38 (measure 40mm). similar suppleness/speed as 
Rene Herse but seem more resilient and have some tread / bite

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 4:54:23 PM UTC-7, Pancake wrote:
>
> My Compass Snoqualmie Pass tires are worn out according to Rene Herse - 
> the rear tire blew (it was setup tubeless), probably I was running a 
> pressure too high (at the tubeless max, 60 psi). Now that I’m looking to 
> replace them I was considering these wider 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple 
> Vitesse EX TR tires. Can anybody talk me out of these or into something 
> better? I’d like them to be tubeless compatible, but it’s not necessary. 
> Could go for anything between 40mm and whatever the limit for the Sam with 
> no fenders (apparently up to 45mm but some have fit up to 50mm depending on 
> the rim and brake setup). 
>
> My rims are Alex Adventurer II (slightly less wise than Cliffhangers, but 
> wider than Atlas rims). 
>
> Abe “what was the popping noise!” in Napa

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[Pancake]

Thanks for the quick reply. Bikes are kept in the garage (inside). 

I also use the Basketball tires on my Cheviot, 42mm, reflective sidewalls, can 
be found for close to $20 AND the VERY rarely flat on me (maybe twice in 3,000 
miles, just switched to a new pair about 200 miles ago). They’re my backup plan 
for the Hillborne, but I like to fancy it up a bit because it’s got a fun 
background. 

I am curious if anyone has fit 48mm Soma Supple Vitesse tires on a 56cm Sam 
Hillborne? Or similar tubeless compatible tires in about that size?

Do you keep your bike outside?  I've had a few Compass Steilacoom and Barlow 
Pass blow out in the sidewalls all of a sudden (scary, in traffic each time), 
and my theory is it's sun exposure degrading the sidewall after a year or so 
outdoors in NY.   I recently replaced with Conti basketball tires, they are 
wonderful if not quite as supple, 42 w/ fenders on Cheviot (should be very 
similar to Sam). 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Hillborne: talk me out of 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple Vitesse EX TR

[lambbo]

Do you keep your bike outside?  I've had a few Compass Steilacoom and 
Barlow Pass blow out in the sidewalls all of a sudden (scary, in traffic 
each time), and my theory is it's sun exposure degrading the sidewall after 
a year or so outdoors in NY.   I recently replaced with Conti basketball 
tires, they are wonderful if not quite as supple, 42 w/ fenders on Cheviot 
(should be very similar to Sam). 

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 7:54:23 PM UTC-4, Pancake wrote:
>
> My Compass Snoqualmie Pass tires are worn out according to Rene Herse - 
> the rear tire blew (it was setup tubeless), probably I was running a 
> pressure too high (at the tubeless max, 60 psi). Now that I’m looking to 
> replace them I was considering these wider 48mm Soma Fabrications Supple 
> Vitesse EX TR tires. Can anybody talk me out of these or into something 
> better? I’d like them to be tubeless compatible, but it’s not necessary. 
> Could go for anything between 40mm and whatever the limit for the Sam with 
> no fenders (apparently up to 45mm but some have fit up to 50mm depending on 
> the rim and brake setup). 
>
> My rims are Alex Adventurer II (slightly less wise than Cliffhangers, but 
> wider than Atlas rims). 
>
> Abe “what was the popping noise!” in Napa

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Thomas B]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

I will mull things a bit and post a picture when I switch things up.

Tom

On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 1:16:56 PM UTC-8, Adam Leibow wrote:
>
> the antelope hills are great for mt. tam; i know because i have ridden all 
> over on my clem L with those tires. rivendell also has these schwalbe g one 
> all arounds that are similarly fast-rolling but have some knobbage that 
> bites if you want that.
>
> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:22:24 AM UTC-8, Thomas B wrote:
>>
>> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
>> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
>> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
>> what to look for. Any advice? 
>>
>> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
>> inspirational. 
>>
>> Thanks 
>> Tom
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Adam Leibow]

the antelope hills are great for mt. tam; i know because i have ridden all 
over on my clem L with those tires. rivendell also has these schwalbe g one 
all arounds that are similarly fast-rolling but have some knobbage that 
bites if you want that.

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:22:24 AM UTC-8, Thomas B wrote:
>
> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
> what to look for. Any advice? 
>
> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
> inspirational. 
>
> Thanks 
> Tom

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Braxton Colagross]

I'm going to +1 on the Thunder Burts as well. Most likely my favorite tire. 
Addix Speed red. 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

If you're looking for budget options, check out Continental Race Kings or 
Double Fighter. I've used the latter on my Cheviot when I want to take it 
off-road (don't laugh!), removing the fenders to fit 2" 29ers. You can find 
them for super-cheap at the link below ($13 a pop) and they work perfectly 
fine on and off-road. 

https://www.bikeinn.com/bike/continental-double-fighter-iii-29x2.00/135913596/p 


On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 1:22:24 PM UTC-5, Thomas B wrote:
>
> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
> what to look for. Any advice? 
>
> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
> inspirational. 
>
> Thanks 
> Tom

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Garth]

 
Any off-road tire will work just fine !

If you're asking the "best thought/opinion/bias " *about* tires , there 
isn't one. 




On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 1:22:24 PM UTC-5, Thomas B wrote:
>
> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
> what to look for. Any advice? 
>
> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
> inspirational. 
>
> Thanks 
> Tom

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

[Mark Schneider]

I'm also using the Thunderburts, and while I'm pretty slow anyway, I 
noticed little speed loss on the pavement compared to my big Rene Herse 
Antelope Hills or Schwalbe G-ones. And they can often be found cheap.

Mark

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:22:24 AM UTC-8, Thomas B wrote:
>
> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
> what to look for. Any advice? 
>
> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
> inspirational. 
>
> Thanks 
> Tom

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Toyo Fatlantis?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'd recommend either the widest knobby Rene Herse tire (though short of 
snow or uber mud, it really is amazing what can be ridden on their slick 
tires), or to go wider yes, Schwalbe's Thunder Burts or Racing Ralphs are 
fantastic all round tires (surprisingly good on asphalt too). 2.1 to 2.25" 
will give you plenty of tire. My Hunqapillar maxes out at 2.1" (it's the 
first run, so narrower), and that is plenty wide for most things. For 
reference, I ride roads (pavement and dirt) and trails all around Pikes 
Peak as well as to and on the Continental Divide.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:22:24 AM UTC-7, Thomas B wrote:
>
> I would like to put some bigger tires on my Toyo Atlantis for some of the 
> steeper off-road trails around Mt. Tam and East Bay Hills. At the moment I 
> run Barlow Pass and am pretty clueless about off-road tires In general and 
> what to look for. Any advice? 
>
> Recent pictures from fellow El Cerrito resident Hillbubba have been quite 
> inspirational. 
>
> Thanks 
> Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires

[Patrick Moore]

You must be hard on tires! I agree that the Elk Pass is not the tire to
choose for surfaces with large or sharp rocks, but IME, considerable, the
sidewalls are better than those on the Pasela 559 X 32, which quickly
degrade.

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 8:03 PM 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in
> the same sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And
> I know many on here swear by them. Hello to the Patricks!) I've never had a
> sidewall cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot,
> just in case. Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling
> them "event tires") Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km,
> in 2015 (which couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar bill, leading to 7
> flats over 50km, and I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my
> complaint that, yes, it's true that boots don't work well on those tires)
> I've thrown away three straight Compass rear tires before they had even
> 1500 miles on them. Each one had a sidewall cut, although I very
> consciously changed the way I rode to ensure I didn't drop off a curb or
> approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the sidewall, even in the
> slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing from Compass/Rene
> Herse. Sorry, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a long time. We
> now return to your regulary scheduled programming.
>
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> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Carla Waugh]

I decided to go without fenders so I could use my Bon Jon Compass tires which I 
adore. I have Compass tires on my 650B as well. I'm using a medium Donut Sack 
bag in front and my medium Sackville in back which will help in the event of 
rain. Thanks for the great thoughts! A small dusting of snow in Norman Ok.

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[tc]

Hey Carla,
I've have a set of Jon Bon Pass ELs (35mm) on my Roadini ...Awesome, light, 
quiet, grippy, no flats ... and very cushy, zippy.  Like they're not 
there.  I have about 500 mi on them.  Highly recommend.

I have a set of Snoqualmie Pass (44mm) standard casing tires on my wife's 
58 Sam, on my 62 Sam, and now on my 59 Clem (on the Clem, replacing 2.25 
Schwalbe G-One Speeds (also nice), so I can fender it).  Awesome, really 
cushy, no flats.  I had almost gotten used to how velvet smooth they are; 
then my wife rode them the first time (after the stock Kendas - yuck) -- 
and she was amazed at the difference in comfort.

The 'basketball tire' (Continental Sport Contact II) that Riv sells is 
actually a very nice tire for the money.  I had them on my SimpleOne for a 
while.  If that's your price range, I'd go for it.

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires

[Steve Palincsar]

If it was "a bill of goods" we'd all be experiencing problems, and 
that's just not so.


On 1/10/20 10:03 PM, 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the same 
sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know many on here swear by them. Hello to 
the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, 
just in case. Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event tires") 
Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar 
bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, 
yes, it's true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight Compass rear tires 
before they had even 1500 miles on them. Each one had a sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the 
way I rode to ensure I didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the sidewall, 
even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've 
needed to get that off my chest for a long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Tires

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the 
same sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know 
many on here swear by them. Hello to the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall 
cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, just in case. 
Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event 
tires") Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which 
couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and 
I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, yes, it's 
true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight 
Compass rear tires before the tread even began to show wear. Each one had a 
sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the way I rode to ensure I 
didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the 
sidewall, even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing 
from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a 
long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming.

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[RBW] Re: Tires

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the 
same sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know 
many on here swear by them. Hello to the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall 
cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, just in case. 
Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event 
tires") Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which 
couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and 
I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, yes, it's 
true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight 
Compass rear tires before they had even 1500 miles on them. Each one had a 
sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the way I rode to ensure I 
didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the 
sidewall, even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing 
from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a 
long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming. 

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Adam Leibow]

i've had great luck with Compass / Rene Herse standard casing tires- not 
quite as fragile as EL's and still very supple/fast. i have the snoqualmie 
pass on my sam and the antelope hill on my clem L. very spoiled. honorable 
mentions for other tires= WTB, Schwalbe as obvious choices. The schwalbe g 
one all around are supple like compass but have knobs for some bite off 
road. would recommend. 

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 12:43:23 PM UTC-8, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Garth]

  Forte Metro ST 700 x 35 tires , from Performance/Nashbar online.   I run 
them at 35-40 psi and they ride real nice. The cost about $14 each I 
believe. "You get what you pay for" in this case doesn't apply. you get 
a whole lot more.  They have an error in their listing with weight listed 
@725g, it's supposed to list be 425g as that's what they weigh.   

They ride great  . how's that for depth and breadth of descriptions ?  
Woo-hoo !!!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires

[Patrick Moore]

This refers to the 559/26" x 1.25/32 Pasela.I hadn't looked for a long
while, but good to know that Panracer still makes the 26 X 1.25" Pasela,
and that Modern Bike and Amazon carry them:

https://www.amazon.com/panaracer-Pasela-ProTite-Folding-Tire/dp/B01K871UYE?th=1=1

https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer-t-serv-protite-26-x-1.25-tire-folding-bead-black-black

There's also the Ribmo which looks to be a bit beefier.

>From the weights listed on the Amazon page (240 grams for the 26 X 1.25),
I'd guess that these are *non*-tourguard? I commuted on these tires for a
few years, and they weren't bad as far as rolling quality goes. Quite prone
to thorn flats (which may be a measure of their rolling quality, ie thin
carcase) and quite sensitive to tire pressure. The Schwalbe Kojak seemed
(but I am relying on memory) to roll as well as the Pasela but certainly
resisted thorns better.

I did try the Tourguard version of the same tire, and that model (again,
memory) seemed to be more sluggish.

Can anyone talk about the Ribmo? How does it roll compared to Kojak or
Pasela 26 X 1.25?

I hope and pray that Jan keeps making the superlative Elk Pass, the only
really good 26" road tire on the market, afaik. Interesting: as durable --
1,500 miles rear, fixed -- as the Pasela 1.25 non-TG; 60 or 80 grams
lighter (~175 versus 240 and 260 claimed weights for Pasela), rolls much
better, far less pressure sensitive. But also $80+ each (which I happily
pay). Note that Jan insisted (BQ? Boblist?) that his tires were very
different from the Paselas - new molds and all.

Note that IME, the 26 X 1.25 Pasela, at least the non-TG version, is not
much stronger than the Elk Pass; in fact, the sidewalls deteriorate more
quickly, and the tread, while thicker, is also more easily damaged -- I
scraped off a 2" long section of tread when a saddlebag came loose from the
bracket and jammed the rear tire as I was at the bottom of a hill;
fortunately, fixed gear, so my speed was moderate.

Still and all, good to know that there are several *tolerable *~32 mm road
tire alternatives for 559 wheels still on the market.




On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 9:30 AM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you find that Compasses end up too fragile and expensive for your taste
> I highly recommend Panaracer's other tires, as they are Compass'
> manufacturer and many elements of them show up in cheaper tires.
>
> The Pasela is a regular mostly slick road tread with a very thin, flexible
> sidewall similar to Compass' regular casings and the Gravelking slick is a
> file tread with a less flexible but still supple reinforced sidewall
> comparable to the Endurance casings on newer Compass tires.
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-6, Carla Waugh wrote:
>>
>> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently
>> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the
>> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement.
>> If you have what did you think and which model?
>
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> 
> .
>


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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Matt Dreher]

If you find that Compasses end up too fragile and expensive for your taste 
I highly recommend Panaracer's other tires, as they are Compass' 
manufacturer and many elements of them show up in cheaper tires. 

The Pasela is a regular mostly slick road tread with a very thin, flexible 
sidewall similar to Compass' regular casings and the Gravelking slick is a 
file tread with a less flexible but still supple reinforced sidewall 
comparable to the Endurance casings on newer Compass tires.

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-6, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Julian Westerhout]

Carla, 

I've used the Bon Jon Pass (700x35) and really like them, but in winter I 
seem to have more flats (roads here have more debris in winter) on them 
than on Gravelkings. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-6, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: Tires

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hey Carla! If your winter riding includes snow, knobbies, otherwise the 
slick herringbone is the way to go for mixed terrain that doesn't get loose 
or technical. Just pick the same width as your Jack Browns, unless you've 
room to go up a wee bit. If flats are an issue, you can go for endurance, 
but the extralights are oh so plush! Hope that helps.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 1:43:23 PM UTC-7, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

It’s been a long saga, but I finally have news to report. 

I got a smokin’ deal on Schwalbe Big Ben tires (2 in?) in 650b for my 
Clementine. They are a UK company, so of course shipping was going to take 
awhile. At some point, the tires were lost by the carrier and I was working 
with the company to figure out next steps. Meanwhile, one fine morning I 
made it all but a half mile to school and BOOM BOOM BOOM!!! Stopped my bike 
immediately and saw that the rear tire was pancake flat. I made an 
instagram video about that as I pushed my bike 1.5 miles uphill in my 
nursing scrubs. I don’t know why I thought that was funny. You should see 
the blisters I still have on my heels. 

I’m Two-Bike Leah these days, so I decided to take the Clementine to the 
shop and give them a laundry list of small issues I’d identified, as well 
as to have them get new tires for it. We all marveled at how dirty the bike 
was, and T (shop owner) agreed that the black on my pants could definitely 
be the brake pads. I brought Kool Stop brake pads for installation, because 
we had decided somewhere on this List that the brake pads were maybe to 
blame. Plus, what does it hurt to get new brake pads? I needed some tuning 
for the derailleurs and then the new tires and one new tube. The shop owner 
had tires in mind and I left him to it. Take my money, I’d said. I’d ride 
the Betz in the meantime.

Meanwhile, my lost tires appeared and the shop’s were late in arriving. He 
decided to put my Big Bens on my bike instead and asked me to bring them 
by. I came to pick up the Clementine today and T told me that he really 
thinks the black dust all over me and the wheels were from those old brake 
pads. He said they were disintegrating (or something) and that there was 
metal and erosion in them (or something). He really thinks I’m going to be 
pleased with these new pads. 

I did a test ride around the block and I honestly cannot believe how much 
better the bike feels on new tires and with new brakes. Just wow. I wish I 
had known sooner. It’s like butter now, whereas my old Kendas always felt a 
little like going through mud. I have dark wash jeans on today, so no 
telling about the brake dust, but I’ll certainly be back here whining about 
it if it starts up again. Carl! Thanks for messaging me about the Kool 
Stops!

What really was the icing on the cake was that T took it upon himself to 
clean up my filthy, filthy wheels and the multi-colored spoke ends all show 
up in bright color again. I was so pleased about how the bike came out and 
as I was leaving one mechanic said, “Your bike always moves to the front of 
the line when you bring it in. I think you get special treatment here.” 

“My bike is serious class,” I said, winking.

And it is.
Leah

PS Thank you so very much for helping me figure out this mess! 

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 8:16:30 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> I have a 2015 Clementine with the original Kenda tires. I have heard those 
> aren’t nice tires and I’m starting to suspect the rumors are true. “Boggy” 
> someone once said, and that makes sense to me. 
>
> At any rate, something worse is happening. Every day I come home from the 
> school commute and notice black speckles all over my legs, and more on my 
> left leg than right. The dots are not like grease - they LOOK like grease 
> but wipe off like dust. I took a video of this but think it might be weird 
> to post leg videos. At any rate, I suspected the stuff was coming from the 
> chain. Joe Bernard told me to get a chain cleaner and get at it, which I 
> did, and now my chain is clean but I still have the problem. Roberta asked 
> about my tires. Are they flaking off? They don’t appear to be, but I don’t 
> know. 
>
> Whatever the problem, doesn’t this seem like a good excuse to get new 
> tires? 
>
> I would love your input here. I want them to be the same fatness (there’s 
> a technical term!) that I have now, because I LOVE them and because they 
> fit with my fenders. I need puncture resistance. I have a healthy fear of 
> flats and zero skills to fix them. I’m telling you I live dangerously. That 
> is all! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[franklyn]

It seems that a plush ride is of value here. One trick that I use and one that 
has been mentioned on this list before is to put tubeless sealant in the tubes. 
This way you can enjoy the supple Compass/RH tires while not worry about flats: 
have the cake and eat it also.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[PaulS]

Schwalbe touring tires can last quite a while and typically measured in 
distance. Reports I’ve seen vary between 6-10k miles, depending on terrain, 
weight, etc. 

I’ve used Big Apples. Very plush. I did have a staple go right through one 
time. If I had been on my Marathon Plus, I’d have just kept going. If you 
prioritize flat proof over everything else, I’d highly recommend the Marathon 
Plus. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Leah Peterson]

It’s hard to say how long tires last. The heat and dryness out here can crack 
tires but I haven’t had it happen. Use, disuse, miles - it all affects the 
tire. I had my Betz tires for 5 years before I wore them down to the fabric. I 
could see the air in those tires!

Oh, you asked about the WTB Betty Foy post. I don’t want to sell right now. I 
do still love the bike and have been riding it again lately. I think the 
Clementine’s tires have been decreasing my enjoyment lately. It just feels hard 
lately. Pedaling that bike seems to always take too much effort. And it’s not 
the weight of the bike - it feels the same loaded or not. I still really like 
it, but it needs some fine-tuning.

Alright I’m spent. To bed!
L

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2019, at 6:05 PM, REC (Roberta)  wrote:
> 
> 
> How long do tires last?  Is it the number of miles (and how many), the age, 
> environmental, a combination?  Would these tires last longer I suppose, 
> because the material is thicker (assuming all material is exactly equal, 
> which probably isn't true).
> 
> I know nothing of tires, but am curious.  I'm a "no flat" kind of person.
> 
>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:58:30 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>>   Yes 50 is right, they'll be about 46mm and you might have to get the 
>> fenders adjusted when installed, maybe not hopefully the mechanic is 
>> competent ! 
>> 
>> Schwalbe Big Ben, RaceGuard Performance line, wire bead, HS439 - 650B x 48 
>> (50-584, 27.5x2) - 10138 - 745g, 35-70 psi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:46:26 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>> Wait, not in 50 - where did I get that? Who put this idea in my head? 
>>> 
>>> The tire size is “27.5 x 1.75” and the bike has fenders.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[REC (Roberta)]

How long do tires last?  Is it the number of miles (and how many), the age, 
environmental, a combination?  Would these tires last longer I suppose, 
because the material is thicker (assuming all material is exactly equal, 
which probably isn't true).

I know nothing of tires, but am curious.  I'm a "no flat" kind of person.

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:58:30 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>   Yes 50 is right, they'll be about 46mm and you might have to get the 
> fenders adjusted when installed, maybe not hopefully the mechanic is 
> competent ! 
>
> *Schwalbe Big Ben, RaceGuard Performance line, wire bead, HS439 - 650B x 
> 48 (50-584, 27.5x2) - 10138 - 745g, 35-70 psi*
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:46:26 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>>
>> Wait, not in 50 - where did I get that? Who put this idea in my head? 
>>
>> The tire size is “27.5 x 1.75” and the bike has fenders.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Mark Schneider]

I would say that on my old MUSA Atlantis that changing the tires to Rene 
Herse Antelope Hill tires transformed the bike into a so much more 
pleasurable ride. But Schwalbe G One speed tires also run great.
I haven't gotten any flats this year, but YMMV
Good bike tires are expensive, but I ride for enjoyment and going a little 
faster makes my ride more pleasurable.

Mark  
On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 8:16:30 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> I have a 2015 Clementine with the original Kenda tires. I have heard those 
> aren’t nice tires and I’m starting to suspect the rumors are true. “Boggy” 
> someone once said, and that makes sense to me. 
>
> At any rate, something worse is happening. Every day I come home from the 
> school commute and notice black speckles all over my legs, and more on my 
> left leg than right. The dots are not like grease - they LOOK like grease 
> but wipe off like dust. I took a video of this but think it might be weird 
> to post leg videos. At any rate, I suspected the stuff was coming from the 
> chain. Joe Bernard told me to get a chain cleaner and get at it, which I 
> did, and now my chain is clean but I still have the problem. Roberta asked 
> about my tires. Are they flaking off? They don’t appear to be, but I don’t 
> know. 
>
> Whatever the problem, doesn’t this seem like a good excuse to get new 
> tires? 
>
> I would love your input here. I want them to be the same fatness (there’s 
> a technical term!) that I have now, because I LOVE them and because they 
> fit with my fenders. I need puncture resistance. I have a healthy fear of 
> flats and zero skills to fix them. I’m telling you I live dangerously. That 
> is all! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Jan O.]

I run 650B x 48mm Big Ben on my Atlantis and they are great all around 
tires. They roll very well and have good puncture protection.

Jan
San Francisco, CA


On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 8:32:46 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Alright, I’m just catching up since I had an event that went late into 
> last night. I have opened the proverbial can of worms here. I was supposed 
> to say, “Please figure out this tire problem. Tell me what to get and how 
> to make the black speckles stop.” and you were supposed to say, “1. Do 
> this. And 2. Do that.” And then problem solved, right?! 
>
> I might be more conflicted than when I started regarding tires, but I DID 
> order the Kool Stop brakes and will have those installed. I’m pretty sure 
> that will stop the black speckling issue. As for tires, I know some have 
> been ok with the Kendas and like how they keep the bike from taking itself 
> too seriously (looks-wise) but I am going to switch them out. The 
> Clementine feels, even on flat land, a big sluggish. I rarely shifted on my 
> Betz but I need to on the Clementine, like the bike is always in a gear 
> that’s a little too hard. I want to see if better tires would help that. 
>
> So, in light of that, do we think Schwalbe Big Bens in 50 will be the 
> ticket?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[REC (Roberta)]

I have some Kenda tires (not sure which ones) on my Joe Appaloosa. I think 
they are 45 wide.  I pump them to 65 ( I think that is the max) and don't 
pump them up again until they get that squishy feeling, then pump them up 
again.  I do like them a touch less than the max, but much more than 
squishy.  I'm not sure what pressure that is.  Still fairly firm though for 
me.

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:28:08 AM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>>
>> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine 
>> and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps 
>> and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I 
>> know...
>>
>>
> I can give you one good reason (besides comfort) why you might not want to 
> inflate wide tires to max pressure unless you've very heavy.  When you pump 
> a wide tire up to high pressure it can become very bouncy with a 
> considerable rebound on hard impacts, a bit like a basketball. That can, in 
> some circumstances, snatch the handlebars right out of your hands.  It 
> happened to me, and I crashed as a result, breaking my collar bone.  I'm 
> not talking here about the biopace-like surging you might get at very low 
> pressure, where you can feel the bike squishing the tires down on each 
> pedal downstroke, but rather the SPROING bounce you get when you throw a 
> basketball down onto the pavement.  
>
> Your "bones rattling" comment reminds me of a time at Bike Virginia, back 
> when they still had dinner put on by a community organization.  I was 
> standing in line waiting for them to open, and couldn't help overhearing 
> the guy in front of me discussing tire pressure with his friends.  He 
> looked a bit like a football player - large, obviously over 250 lb.  He was 
> from Virginia Beach, and was talking about how much he enjoyed going 
> downhill on "the bridge" -- evidently, the only hill in town -- on his 19mm 
> tires inflated to 150 psi.  "Rock hard," he said, and at 30 mph the bike 
> vibrated so much he said "it *really* felt fast!"
>
> It is true you don't get the same super cushy ride benefit from lower tire 
> pressure with chunky, rigid-sidewall tires as you do with supple tires with 
> flexible sidewalls, but there's still a benefit to having your tires as the 
> proper pressure for your weight.  At just under 100kg I'm well over the 
> Clydesdale line and there are very few tires that I need to inflate to the 
> "max pressure".  And I'll bet you a chocolate milkshake I weigh a lot more 
> than you do.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

Make sure you have a good grip on the bars, in that case.

On 9/27/19 11:38 AM, Leah Peterson wrote:

I both laughed and shuddered over the football player’s bone-shaking.

Yes, that’s what I like - the basketball bounce you get on full tires 
- I’ve just never thought of it that way! Don’t take this from me! 
Because now I’m a little concerned. But maybe not concerned enough to 
ride around on sloppy tires. We’ll see.


Sent from my iPad


On Sep 27, 2019, at 7:28 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:



On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle 
Ding Ding! wrote:


Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air
in mine and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me.
I fly over bumps and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle!
I’m doing it wrong, I know...


I can give you one good reason (besides comfort) why you might not 
want to inflate wide tires to max pressure unless you've very heavy.  
When you pump a wide tire up to high pressure it can become very 
bouncy with a considerable rebound on hard impacts, a bit like a 
basketball. That can, in some circumstances, snatch the handlebars 
right out of your hands.  It happened to me, and I crashed as a 
result, breaking my collar bone.  I'm not talking here about the 
biopace-like surging you might get at very low pressure, where you 
can feel the bike squishing the tires down on each pedal downstroke, 
but rather the SPROING bounce you get when you throw a basketball 
down onto the pavement.


Your "bones rattling" comment reminds me of a time at Bike Virginia, 
back when they still had dinner put on by a community organization.  
I was standing in line waiting for them to open, and couldn't help 
overhearing the guy in front of me discussing tire pressure with his 
friends.  He looked a bit like a football player - large, obviously 
over 250 lb.  He was from Virginia Beach, and was talking about how 
much he enjoyed going downhill on "the bridge" -- evidently, the only 
hill in town -- on his 19mm tires inflated to 150 psi.  "Rock hard," 
he said, and at 30 mph the bike vibrated so much he said "it /really/ 
felt fast!"


It is true you don't get the same super cushy ride benefit from lower 
tire pressure with chunky, rigid-sidewall tires as you do with supple 
tires with flexible sidewalls, but there's still a benefit to having 
your tires as the proper pressure for your weight.  At just under 
100kg I'm well over the Clydesdale line and there are very few tires 
that I need to inflate to the "max pressure".  And I'll bet you a 
chocolate milkshake I weigh a lot more than you do.

--


Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

  Yes 50 is right, they'll be about 46mm and you might have to get the 
fenders adjusted when installed, maybe not hopefully the mechanic is 
competent ! 

*Schwalbe Big Ben, RaceGuard Performance line, wire bead, HS439 - 650B x 48 
(50-584, 27.5x2) - 10138 - 745g, 35-70 psi*



On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:46:26 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> Wait, not in 50 - where did I get that? Who put this idea in my head? 
>
> The tire size is “27.5 x 1.75” and the bike has fenders.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

   I've had some Kenda tires of a different model, they were fairly light 
and folding even . and they too felt sluggish. The Big Bens, despite 
weighing much more ride so much better and as I've said repeatedly  
roll and roll and roll . on over yonder and hill and dale. I ride the 
exact same hills with my much lighter road bike and I ride up in the same 
gears and speed that is ... slow ! Ahahahahaha ! 

  Big Bens it is .  Call them the killer B's ...


On Friday, SepteThe Clementine feels, even on flat land, a big sluggish. I 
rarely shifted on my Betz but I need to on the Clementine, like the bike is 
always in a gear that’s a little too hard. I want to see if better tires 
would help that. 

>
> So, in light of that, do we think Schwalbe Big Bens in 50 will be the 
> ticket?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Wait, not in 50 - where did I get that? Who put this idea in my head? 

The tire size is “27.5 x 1.75” and the bike has fenders.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Leah Peterson]

I both laughed and shuddered over the football player’s bone-shaking. 

Yes, that’s what I like - the basketball bounce you get on full tires - I’ve 
just never thought of it that way! Don’t take this from me! Because now I’m a 
little concerned. But maybe not concerned enough to ride around on sloppy 
tires. We’ll see.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 27, 2019, at 7:28 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine and 
>> ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps and 
>> stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I know...
>> 
> 
> I can give you one good reason (besides comfort) why you might not want to 
> inflate wide tires to max pressure unless you've very heavy.  When you pump a 
> wide tire up to high pressure it can become very bouncy with a considerable 
> rebound on hard impacts, a bit like a basketball. That can, in some 
> circumstances, snatch the handlebars right out of your hands.  It happened to 
> me, and I crashed as a result, breaking my collar bone.  I'm not talking here 
> about the biopace-like surging you might get at very low pressure, where you 
> can feel the bike squishing the tires down on each pedal downstroke, but 
> rather the SPROING bounce you get when you throw a basketball down onto the 
> pavement.  
> 
> Your "bones rattling" comment reminds me of a time at Bike Virginia, back 
> when they still had dinner put on by a community organization.  I was 
> standing in line waiting for them to open, and couldn't help overhearing the 
> guy in front of me discussing tire pressure with his friends.  He looked a 
> bit like a football player - large, obviously over 250 lb.  He was from 
> Virginia Beach, and was talking about how much he enjoyed going downhill on 
> "the bridge" -- evidently, the only hill in town -- on his 19mm tires 
> inflated to 150 psi.  "Rock hard," he said, and at 30 mph the bike vibrated 
> so much he said "it really felt fast!"
> 
> It is true you don't get the same super cushy ride benefit from lower tire 
> pressure with chunky, rigid-sidewall tires as you do with supple tires with 
> flexible sidewalls, but there's still a benefit to having your tires as the 
> proper pressure for your weight.  At just under 100kg I'm well over the 
> Clydesdale line and there are very few tires that I need to inflate to the 
> "max pressure".  And I'll bet you a chocolate milkshake I weigh a lot more 
> than you do.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Alright, I’m just catching up since I had an event that went late into last 
night. I have opened the proverbial can of worms here. I was supposed to say, 
“Please figure out this tire problem. Tell me what to get and how to make the 
black speckles stop.” and you were supposed to say, “1. Do this. And 2. Do 
that.” And then problem solved, right?! 

I might be more conflicted than when I started regarding tires, but I DID order 
the Kool Stop brakes and will have those installed. I’m pretty sure that will 
stop the black speckling issue. As for tires, I know some have been ok with the 
Kendas and like how they keep the bike from taking itself too seriously 
(looks-wise) but I am going to switch them out. The Clementine feels, even on 
flat land, a big sluggish. I rarely shifted on my Betz but I need to on the 
Clementine, like the bike is always in a gear that’s a little too hard. I want 
to see if better tires would help that. 

So, in light of that, do we think Schwalbe Big Bens in 50 will be the ticket?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine 
> and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps 
> and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I 
> know...
>
>
I can give you one good reason (besides comfort) why you might not want to 
inflate wide tires to max pressure unless you've very heavy.  When you pump 
a wide tire up to high pressure it can become very bouncy with a 
considerable rebound on hard impacts, a bit like a basketball. That can, in 
some circumstances, snatch the handlebars right out of your hands.  It 
happened to me, and I crashed as a result, breaking my collar bone.  I'm 
not talking here about the biopace-like surging you might get at very low 
pressure, where you can feel the bike squishing the tires down on each 
pedal downstroke, but rather the SPROING bounce you get when you throw a 
basketball down onto the pavement.  

Your "bones rattling" comment reminds me of a time at Bike Virginia, back 
when they still had dinner put on by a community organization.  I was 
standing in line waiting for them to open, and couldn't help overhearing 
the guy in front of me discussing tire pressure with his friends.  He 
looked a bit like a football player - large, obviously over 250 lb.  He was 
from Virginia Beach, and was talking about how much he enjoyed going 
downhill on "the bridge" -- evidently, the only hill in town -- on his 19mm 
tires inflated to 150 psi.  "Rock hard," he said, and at 30 mph the bike 
vibrated so much he said "it *really* felt fast!"

It is true you don't get the same super cushy ride benefit from lower tire 
pressure with chunky, rigid-sidewall tires as you do with supple tires with 
flexible sidewalls, but there's still a benefit to having your tires as the 
proper pressure for your weight.  At just under 100kg I'm well over the 
Clydesdale line and there are very few tires that I need to inflate to the 
"max pressure".  And I'll bet you a chocolate milkshake I weigh a lot more 
than you do.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Patrick Moore]

Leah:  If you ever try some really nice tires, you will surprised at how
fast and smooth -- both together -- they feel at moderate pressures. This
advice from someone who used to pump his 35 mm Fatboys to 120 psi because
the sidewall told me to do that.

Even the Schwalbe Kojaks (I used the 32-real/35-labeled in 3 different
diameters, but they also come in a 50 mm width, I think) are sufficiently
more nice than, say, Marathon Racers that you can get by with a much lower
pressure before they start feeling as if you are riding in cold, cold
molasses. IME, nice tires have a wider range between "hard" and "bounce",
and between "fast" and "bow wow."

OTOH, when my daughter last had a bike, it had (1) cheap, stiff tires, (2)
thorn proof tubes -- these weighed as much as the tires; (3) a heavy tire
liner; (4) a bucket full of Slime in each tube. I tried reducing pressure
to, oh perhaps 35 psi where they belonged; molasses. Pumped them right up
again to "rock hard."

But that's with tires that are inferior by any standard except perhaps
puncture resistance and price.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:59 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine
> and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps
> and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I
> know...
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Garth  wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>Well that's interesting PM !  I prolly weigh more/less in the same
> ballpark and I first tried the BB @ 25-30 psi but found the rear(Rhyno Lite
> rim) a bit bouncy on the road, and the front felt like it was gonna roll
> off the rim(25mm Mavic) when I leaned hard into corners.  Felt like is one
> story, actuality is another though and I wasn't in the mood to find out.  I
> suspect that sense of rollover though is from the large round profile
> tires, something I've never ridden before.  Off road I would go much lower
> though as these are not pleasant at 35 psi. !   I have lots of steep curvy
> roads around here
>
>On my "road" bike I run some Forte Metro 35mm tires @ 35-40 psi,
> sometimes less, and they feel awesome, though the 531ST tubing, long
> wheelbase and relaxed angles all help.
>
>
> Quite seriously, I don't want to step on Garth's or any one else's toes,
>> but I'm 175 lb and I ran 50 mm tires, and paper thin ones at that (Furious
>> Freds, 360 grams each) at 20 psi on dirt, sub 30 on pavement. 60s if stiff
>> sidewalled Big Apples at 16-17 dirt and about 21 pavement, supple ones
>> 18-20 dirt, 25-6 pavement (generally, I just leave them at the lower
>> pressure unless I take an extended pavement ride). I just found that when I
>> pump my 28 mm Compass extralights rock hard, the digital gauge reads 51
>> psi; should run them at 45. I put 80 f/90 rear in supple 22 mm tires. All
>> this often includes freight loads up to 40 lbs.
>>
>> Don't overfill! Pinch flats -- I *never* get pinch flats for some reason
>> -- can be avoided by being just a very little bit careful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[David Bivins]

Leah, I'm the same. I pump them up!

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:15 PM Garth  wrote:

>
>   It doesn't matter what pressure Leah ... you're enjoying the ride and
> that's all that matters. Rules are for foolz !
>
>
> On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding
> Ding! wrote:
>>
>> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine
>> and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps
>> and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I
>> know...
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

  It doesn't matter what pressure Leah ... you're enjoying the ride and 
that's all that matters. Rules are for foolz !


On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine 
> and ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps 
> and stay in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I 
> know...
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Leah Peterson]

Why does everyone love barely inflated tires? I put the max air in mine and 
ride them rock hard! Otherwise they feel flat to me. I fly over bumps and stay 
in the saddle and let my bones rattle! I’m doing it wrong, I know...

Sent from my iPad

>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Garth  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>Well that's interesting PM !  I prolly weigh more/less in the same 
> ballpark and I first tried the BB @ 25-30 psi but found the rear(Rhyno Lite 
> rim) a bit bouncy on the road, and the front felt like it was gonna roll off 
> the rim(25mm Mavic) when I leaned hard into corners.  Felt like is one story, 
> actuality is another though and I wasn't in the mood to find out.  I suspect 
> that sense of rollover though is from the large round profile tires, 
> something I've never ridden before.  Off road I would go much lower though as 
> these are not pleasant at 35 psi. !   I have lots of steep curvy roads around 
> here
> 
>On my "road" bike I run some Forte Metro 35mm tires @ 35-40 psi, sometimes 
> less, and they feel awesome, though the 531ST tubing, long wheelbase and 
> relaxed angles all help. 
> 
> 
>> Quite seriously, I don't want to step on Garth's or any one else's toes, but 
>> I'm 175 lb and I ran 50 mm tires, and paper thin ones at that (Furious 
>> Freds, 360 grams each) at 20 psi on dirt, sub 30 on pavement. 60s if stiff 
>> sidewalled Big Apples at 16-17 dirt and about 21 pavement, supple ones 18-20 
>> dirt, 25-6 pavement (generally, I just leave them at the lower pressure 
>> unless I take an extended pavement ride). I just found that when I pump my 
>> 28 mm Compass extralights rock hard, the digital gauge reads 51 psi; should 
>> run them at 45. I put 80 f/90 rear in supple 22 mm tires. All this often 
>> includes freight loads up to 40 lbs.
>> 
>> Don't overfill! Pinch flats -- I never get pinch flats for some reason -- 
>> can be avoided by being just a very little bit careful.
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

   Well that's interesting PM !  I prolly weigh more/less in the same 
ballpark and I first tried the BB @ 25-30 psi but found the rear(Rhyno Lite 
rim) a bit bouncy on the road, and the front felt like it was gonna roll 
off the rim(25mm Mavic) when I leaned hard into corners.  Felt like is one 
story, actuality is another though and I wasn't in the mood to find out.  I 
suspect that sense of rollover though is from the large round profile 
tires, something I've never ridden before.  Off road I would go much lower 
though as these are not pleasant at 35 psi. !   I have lots of steep curvy 
roads around here

   On my "road" bike I run some Forte Metro 35mm tires @ 35-40 psi, 
sometimes less, and they feel awesome, though the 531ST tubing, long 
wheelbase and relaxed angles all help. 


Quite seriously, I don't want to step on Garth's or any one else's toes, 
> but I'm 175 lb and I ran 50 mm tires, and paper thin ones at that (Furious 
> Freds, 360 grams each) at 20 psi on dirt, sub 30 on pavement. 60s if stiff 
> sidewalled Big Apples at 16-17 dirt and about 21 pavement, supple ones 
> 18-20 dirt, 25-6 pavement (generally, I just leave them at the lower 
> pressure unless I take an extended pavement ride). I just found that when I 
> pump my 28 mm Compass extralights rock hard, the digital gauge reads 51 
> psi; should run them at 45. I put 80 f/90 rear in supple 22 mm tires. All 
> this often includes freight loads up to 40 lbs.
>
> Don't overfill! Pinch flats -- I *never* get pinch flats for some reason 
> -- can be avoided by being just a very little bit careful.
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[George Schick]

Be careful about buying Schwalbe Big Apple tires.  For many years (well 
over 15 IIRC) I had a pair of Schwalbe Big Apple 26x2.35" tires on my Surly 
1x1 and I loved everything about them.  They finally came to the end of the 
road this Summer when I rode across a stretch of pavement where 
construction workers had pulled the nails out of wooden forms for an 
adjacent concrete sidewalk and carelessly left them lying all over the 
place.  So I went to buy a new pair on-line and due to unclear and evasive 
descriptions of Schwalbe models I wound up mistakenly ordering a pair of 
2.15" Big Apple Plus tires.  They're ridiculously heavy (>750 gm's) and 
they ride like motorcycle tires due to the 3mm of protection guard.  Wish 
I'd been more careful

P.S.  If anyone out there is more interested in flat-proofness than ride 
quality I'd be willing to sell these tires for cheap.
 

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 3:29:51 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> Ok, Friends, you’ve got me interested in the Schwalbe tires, and of those, 
> I think the Big Ben and the Big Apples sound good. I don’t know that I need 
> the tread of the Bens since I’m really a paved surface kinda gal. But I’m 
> open here! The next question is what size. I was out there with a 
> flashlight just now and I see the Clementine tires are Kenda “27.5 x 1.75.” 
> Just out of curiosity, I looked at my son’s 45 cm Clem, and he has Kenda 
> “26 x 2.10.” Can he really have fatter tires than me?! 
>
> I’m asking you and not Rivendell because I probably won’t order tires from 
> them. 
>
> You are lifesavers, 
> Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

The Clem takes up to 60mm/2.4" tires, but with your fenders which are 
likely P50's(about 53-54 actual) the Big Ben 50's(46 or so actual) fit 
fine. I bought the BB over the Big Apples just for the extra tread and 
lifespan. Trust me, the tread does little if anything for traction on the 
road and nothing for off road. As I said they roll with ease !  It's a BA 
with 50 grams more rubber. 


On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 4:29:51 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:
>
> Ok, Friends, you’ve got me interested in the Schwalbe tires, and of those, 
> I think the Big Ben and the Big Apples sound good. I don’t know that I need 
> the tread of the Bens since I’m really a paved surface kinda gal. But I’m 
> open here! The next question is what size. I was out there with a 
> flashlight just now and I see the Clementine tires are Kenda “27.5 x 1.75.” 
> Just out of curiosity, I looked at my son’s 45 cm Clem, and he has Kenda 
> “26 x 2.10.” Can he really have fatter tires than me?! 
>
> I’m asking you and not Rivendell because I probably won’t order tires from 
> them. 
>
> You are lifesavers, 
> Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Ok, Friends, you’ve got me interested in the Schwalbe tires, and of those, I 
think the Big Ben and the Big Apples sound good. I don’t know that I need the 
tread of the Bens since I’m really a paved surface kinda gal. But I’m open 
here! The next question is what size. I was out there with a flashlight just 
now and I see the Clementine tires are Kenda “27.5 x 1.75.” Just out of 
curiosity, I looked at my son’s 45 cm Clem, and he has Kenda “26 x 2.10.” Can 
he really have fatter tires than me?! 

I’m asking you and not Rivendell because I probably won’t order tires from 
them. 

You are lifesavers,
Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Patrick Moore]

Quite seriously, I don't want to step on Garth's or any one else's toes,
but I'm 175 lb and I ran 50 mm tires, and paper thin ones at that (Furious
Freds, 360 grams each) at 20 psi on dirt, sub 30 on pavement. 60s if stiff
sidewalled Big Apples at 16-17 dirt and about 21 pavement, supple ones
18-20 dirt, 25-6 pavement (generally, I just leave them at the lower
pressure unless I take an extended pavement ride). I just found that when I
pump my 28 mm Compass extralights rock hard, the digital gauge reads 51
psi; should run them at 45. I put 80 f/90 rear in supple 22 mm tires. All
this often includes freight loads up to 40 lbs.

Don't overfill! Pinch flats -- I *never* get pinch flats for some reason --
can be avoided by being just a very little bit careful.



On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:07 PM Garth  wrote:

>
>
>   For your bike(27.5 wheels) Leah I'll second the 50mm Big Ben tires. I
> ride these on my Bombadil and I LOVE them on the road. I ride them at about
> 35 psi front and 40 rear.  They just roll and roll and roll it's
> amazingly fun !
>
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> .
>


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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Garth]

  For your bike(27.5 wheels) Leah I'll second the 50mm Big Ben tires. I 
ride these on my Bombadil and I LOVE them on the road. I ride them at about 
35 psi front and 40 rear.  They just roll and roll and roll it's 
amazingly fun !

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Leah Peterson]

Someone private messaged me and was nearly certain the brake pads are causing 
the smattering of black speckles, and I think he’s right. I ran my fingers over 
the brake pads and that same matter appeared on my fingers. With my brakes 
employed down the 1 mile descent to school, there would be a lot of opportunity 
for the stuff to accumulate on me and the bike.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 26, 2019, at 10:27 AM, masmojo  wrote:
> 
> Oh, I  meant to say, a short term solution might be simply washing your 
> tires/bike.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[masmojo]

Oh, I  meant to say, a short term solution might be simply washing your 
tires/bike.

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[masmojo]

I agree the specks look like the result of a light spray from the tires. Hit a 
little dampness & the droplets fling off, the moisture quickly evaporates and 
you are left with small spots.

Tires on a Clementine? The choices are sort of wide ranging. The Kenda's aren't 
bad tires, but yes maybe a bit heavy and sluggish. Unfortunately, from there 
where do you go? Depends on primary function. Marathons are a good choice. WTB 
Horizons are a good quick tire, but maybe narrower than you might want on a 
Clem? For a more offroad tire I like the Continental Race Kings or Mountain 
Kings. 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Tom Wyland]

The black specs are probably brake dust or something from the road?  Water 
+ brake dust = black specs for me.

I've had Schwalbe Big Ben (raceguard) and Marathon green guard tires on my 
bikes. The Big Ben/Big Apple tires really do have great rolling resistance. 
The Marathons are a great value. I picked up a set of Schwalbe Marathon 
Winter tires for my folding bike for $25/each on ChainReactionCycles (UK 
site). 

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Tires for Clementine

[Sky Coulter]

I like the schwalbe marathon supreme tires: big and cushy (2.0 measure 
around 46mm on my rims); unlikely to flat; fast rolling (in my experience 
there isn't that big of a difference between them and compass tires). They 
can be found online in a couple places at a reasonable price but still a 
bit dear.

Sky in new west

On Wednesday, 25 September 2019 20:16:30 UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I have a 2015 Clementine with the original Kenda tires. I have heard those 
> aren’t nice tires and I’m starting to suspect the rumors are true. “Boggy” 
> someone once said, and that makes sense to me. 
>
> At any rate, something worse is happening. Every day I come home from the 
> school commute and notice black speckles all over my legs, and more on my 
> left leg than right. The dots are not like grease - they LOOK like grease 
> but wipe off like dust. I took a video of this but think it might be weird 
> to post leg videos. At any rate, I suspected the stuff was coming from the 
> chain. Joe Bernard told me to get a chain cleaner and get at it, which I 
> did, and now my chain is clean but I still have the problem. Roberta asked 
> about my tires. Are they flaking off? They don’t appear to be, but I don’t 
> know. 
>
> Whatever the problem, doesn’t this seem like a good excuse to get new 
> tires? 
>
> I would love your input here. I want them to be the same fatness (there’s 
> a technical term!) that I have now, because I LOVE them and because they 
> fit with my fenders. I need puncture resistance. I have a healthy fear of 
> flats and zero skills to fix them. I’m telling you I live dangerously. That 
> is all! 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

My advice as a former shop owner is go tubes-in.  The last thing you want is a 
tubeless tire coming unseated at speed on a tandem.

(I also ride a hubbah)

My two cents

Alex in Rochester 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You will not blow out a sidewall due to air pressure requirements of a tandem. 
Tires are tested well beyond stated maximum pressure, and you probably won't 
even hit that. 

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[RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Adam Leibow]

I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been stated: the 
tire pressures required for tandem weights are much higher than normal to 
support two peoples' weight. Compass EL seems risky to me for sidewall blow 
out. I have the WTB horizons on mine, which seem just strong enough not to 
cause worry but ride fairly lively and smooth. 

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 2:35:21 PM UTC-8, René wrote:
>
> Since today I paid for my tandem wheel set that Rich built, I've started 
> thinking about tires for the tandem. Being a Compass tires fan, their best 
> option is the 650b 48mm  Switchback Hill. 
>
> I wonder if tires for a tandem have some specific requirements vs. tires 
> for a regular bike that I'm not aware of. There would also be the 
> consideration of the casing, standard vs. extra-light. All my Compass tires 
> are extra-light and I just love them.
>
> Any suggestions, feedback or insights? 
>
> This will be my first tandem ever.
>
> René 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Paul Burns]

thanks--that's interesting and helpful.  I'm a little concerned about what
i might be contributing to the environment with all the sealant I would use
and its related packaging/transport/embedded energy/etc. i don't change
tubes very often and can just pump them up with elbow grease when needed.

Thanks
- Paul



On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
kaiviers...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Though they rarely get a chance to roll, my HHH and I love our 60mm g-ones
> mounted tubeless on cliffhangers. And the same tires mounted tubeless, also
> with cliffhangers, on my Rosco Bubbe are way way way way preferable to
> tubed when rolling around the mean streets of NYC. I go through roughly 100
> ounces of sealant in a year (4 oz a fill), but refilling sealant is easy
> compared to all those tube swaps.
> -Kai
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Though they rarely get a chance to roll, my HHH and I love our 60mm g-ones 
mounted tubeless on cliffhangers. And the same tires mounted tubeless, also 
with cliffhangers, on my Rosco Bubbe are way way way way preferable to tubed 
when rolling around the mean streets of NYC. I go through roughly 100 ounces of 
sealant in a year (4 oz a fill), but refilling sealant is easy compared to all 
those tube swaps. 
-Kai

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Paul Burns]

Thanks, all, appreciated.  Am going to start with the 50mm G-One Speeds.

Am scared to try tubeless, mostly because I am old fashioned/out of 
touch/don't understand/haven't tried it.  Thoughts on the advisability of 
that with tandems?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 7:54:11 PM UTC-4, Marc Pfister wrote:
>
> On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:25:27 PM UTC-6, Paul Burns wrote:
>>
>> Looking for tires for HHH, 70% on paved road, 30% dirt roads.  Would 
>> really prefer tan sidewall.   Compass sound great, but am concerned re 
>> flats/durability.  Considering WTB Horizon 47 and Panaracer GravelKing 48. 
>
>
> My current not-a-hubbuh tandem has the GravelKing 48s on it, running tubes 
> with tubeless sealant. This bike probably sees at least 75% of its mileage 
> on dirt roads in goathead country. I have not had a single flat or cut in 
> the past year.
>
> The upcoming Hubbuh is going to run 60mm Schwalbe G-One Speeds tubeless. 
> This tire only comes in blackwall, but there's a 50mm non-tubeless version 
> available in tanwall.
>
> WTB has a 50mm version of the Venture coming out, and there's a tubeless 
> tanwall version.
>
> Similar but slightly skinnier is the 47mm Teravail Cannonball, which is 
> available in tubeless tanwall version too.
>
> - Marc Pfister
> Windsor CO
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Marc Pfister]

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 2:25:27 PM UTC-6, Paul Burns wrote:
>
> Looking for tires for HHH, 70% on paved road, 30% dirt roads.  Would 
> really prefer tan sidewall.   Compass sound great, but am concerned re 
> flats/durability.  Considering WTB Horizon 47 and Panaracer GravelKing 48. 


My current not-a-hubbuh tandem has the GravelKing 48s on it, running tubes 
with tubeless sealant. This bike probably sees at least 75% of its mileage 
on dirt roads in goathead country. I have not had a single flat or cut in 
the past year.

The upcoming Hubbuh is going to run 60mm Schwalbe G-One Speeds tubeless. 
This tire only comes in blackwall, but there's a 50mm non-tubeless version 
available in tanwall.

WTB has a 50mm version of the Venture coming out, and there's a tubeless 
tanwall version.

Similar but slightly skinnier is the 47mm Teravail Cannonball, which is 
available in tubeless tanwall version too.

- Marc Pfister
Windsor CO

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Schwalbe marathon supremes are working well for us.  Had some thunderburts on 
there but the casing was too supple for the weight and we ended up having to 
way overinflate and had subsequent flat issues.  You’ll want something with a 
fairly substantial casing so you don’t have to compensate with air pressure.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Paul Burns]

Looking for tires for HHH, 70% on paved road, 30% dirt roads.  Would really 
prefer tan sidewall.   Compass sound great, but am concerned re 
flats/durability.  Considering WTB Horizon 47 and Panaracer GravelKing 48.  
Which would be better?  Any other (wider) suggestions?

Also:  am assuming tubed is the way HHH riders go, but happy to be educated.  

Thank you

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[Paul Burns]

Thanks, Bob.  I just ordered the Shikoro 42s and will update the thread if 
they fit under my SKS P50s.

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 9:23:15 AM UTC-4, Bob K. wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> I have no experience with these tires on the Atlantis, nor do I run them 
> with fenders, but both 42 and 48 Shikoros are sublime on my '09 canti Sam 
> Hillborne. The 48s jst fit, and I'm not convinced they've made a world 
> of difference in terms of cushiness as compared to the 42s, but I'm going 
> nowhere fast, so I'll take the float where I can get it.
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[Bob K.]

Paul,

I have no experience with these tires on the Atlantis, nor do I run them with 
fenders, but both 42 and 48 Shikoros are sublime on my '09 canti Sam Hillborne. 
The 48s jst fit, and I'm not convinced they've made a world of difference 
in terms of cushiness as compared to the 42s, but I'm going nowhere fast, so 
I'll take the float where I can get it.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[Paul Burns]

Thank you all so much—very helpful.  Appreciate the depth of wisdom and the 
generosity on this forum.

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Sorry, here's the link

https://www.renehersecycles.com/fenders-for-different-tire-sizes/

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Paul

Here is a link to Compass recommendations of tire sizes for Honjo fenders, 
with a listing of fenders and tire sizes. 

 It also shows the original idea of fender size being 40% greater than tire 
size, so a 38mm tire requires a 53.2mm fender.  a 50 mm fender is 31.5% 
wider than 38mm fender, & a 51mm fender is 34.2% wider

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Paul

Do not know since I've only used SKS P45's with 700Cx32 and 27"x1-1/4".  I 
would assume the Homjo's are similar from the appearance.  The ratio of 
tire to fender (38/51) is 76% which is higher than Jan H typically 
recommends (can't remember off hand, but I recall 60% being ideal) but 
appears to be doable based on the Compass description.

The SKS have a small lip on the inside.  The main source of water "leakage" 
are the 2 struts on the inside of the fender.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ 


On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 7:27:47 AM UTC-4, Paul Burns wrote:
>
> John
>
> Aha—hadn’t seen that, thanks.  I wonder how the Honjos vary from SKS terms 
> of capaciousness.  
>
> —thanks
> Paul 
>
> On May 30, 2019, at 20:40, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> Paul
>
> The Compass site shows a 700C 50/51mm Honjo fender (H47/H50) accommodates 
> a max tire size of 38mm.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>> -- 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[Paul Burns]

John

Aha—hadn’t seen that, thanks.  I wonder how the Honjos vary from SKS terms of 
capaciousness.  

—thanks
Paul 

> On May 30, 2019, at 20:40, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul
> 
> The Compass site shows a 700C 50/51mm Honjo fender (H47/H50) accommodates a 
> max tire size of 38mm.
> 
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[Paul Burns]

William

Thank you very much.  Which type/size fenders do you have?

—thanks
Paul 

> On May 30, 2019, at 23:50, William!  wrote:
> 
> I’ve run both 42mm and 48mm Shikoros on my 61cm Toyo, with fenders. 48mm is 
> somewhat tight but I’ve had no issues with it.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[William!]

I’ve run both 42mm and 48mm Shikoros on my 61cm Toyo, with fenders. 48mm is 
somewhat tight but I’ve had no issues with it.

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Paul

The Compass site shows a 700C 50/51mm Honjo fender (H47/H50) accommodates a 
max tire size of 38mm.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

>

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 2000/2001 Toyo Atlantis with 50mm SKS fenders

[dougP]

Paul:

I had 45 mm Schwalbe Marathons on my '03 Atlantis with fenders.  Don't 
recall the fender size but it was picked because it was the widest one that 
would fit the bike.

dougP

On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:30:06 PM UTC-7, Paul Burns wrote:
>
> How wide do you think I can go?  
>
> Would Compass Snoqualmie Pass (700Cx44) work?  And if so, are they too 
> delicate for regular use?
>
> Any views on Soma Shikoro 42mm?  Panaracer Gravel Kings (only go up to 
> 38mm in 700C)
>
> Will be riding mostly on country roads, but sometimes dirt with rocks (c. 
> 1.5-2inches) the townships use to patch the dirty roads.
>
> I wish I had bought 65 mm fenders...and had 650B wheels!
>
> Thank you
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for a new HHH build

[David Hays]

I’m running Hetres and am very pleased.

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 5:05 PM, M G  wrote:
> 
> We have WTB horizons, with tubes - over 2k miles on them, still lots of 
> tread.  They have good suspension [even w tubes] and are quite fast. Lots of 
> gravel and rutted Western Massachusetts roads, did D2R2 in the rain, so far, 
> no flats.  Combined team is 330 lbs, plus bike, plus lots of pannier weight.  
> The HHH is a great bike, i can't say enough good things about it (we did 
> change from 44 to 48 and now up to a 54T large chainringwe're still 
> spinning it out a bit though)
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 12:20:24 PM UTC-5, Randy Franks wrote:
> Has anybody ridden Schwalbe G-One tires? Either the all arounders or the 
> “bite” model? I was thinking 2” Big Bens initially. But these something with 
> a little tread might be nice. Any other real world recommendations and 
> experience with tires would be great to read, too. 
> 
> https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/2366 
>  
> 
> A pretty reliable source recommended these for the HHH. Our frame arrives 
> sometime later today (!!!).   
> 
> Our riding here in Portland, Ore, and environs will include fire roads and 
> dirt country roads—some, not a lot—and the short stretches here in the city 
> that remain unimproved for some reason. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Randy
> 
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