[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Davin Dahl]

I realized that this topic is a speck in the rear-view mirror, but I wanted 
to share some of my experience on this issue. I got the same call from 
Vince (what a nice guy!) about the 57 orange Roadini I ordered. I had 
already purchased the Tektro R559's from Riv. They gave me the option of a 
free pair of centerpulls, which I took them up on. Long story short, the 
centerpulls they sent me for free were the wrong model, but the Tektro 
R559's work great! So, if any has one of the slightly different but still 
special Roadini's, the Tektro's fit the bill.

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 8:28:37 AM UTC-6, Alan H wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>
> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
> (Friday).
>
> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He told 
> me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>
> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially since 
> I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>
> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
> look of the Stanyan 
>  in pearl 
> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
> ride qualities.
>
> Thanks in advance for you input!
>
> -Alan
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Joe Bernard]

That's an interesting theory. I think the frames come from Taiwan with BBs 
installed, maybe his in there too tight. A lot of people crank down on both 
sides really hard, which can bind them. 

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Philip Williamson]

That’s super interesting. I wonder if your bottom bracket is binding on the 
Roadini? Or your tires are terrible, or under inflated? I mean, that’s a 
shocking difference, and makes for a compelling bike nerd mystery.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[KenP]

Hi,
   Would 27 inch wheels work, like on the road bikes from the '80s?
Ken Peyton

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 10:28:37 AM UTC-4, Alan H wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>
> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
> (Friday).
>
> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He told 
> me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>
> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially since 
> I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>
> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
> look of the Stanyan 
>  in pearl 
> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
> ride qualities.
>
> Thanks in advance for you input!
>
> -Alan
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Adam Leibow]

hi Alan, will they let you take the blem one now, and potentially let you 
borrow a long reach brake for the time being? I would think that's what 
they'd do. And then ship you the corrected frame when it arrives? You 
should ask. Even so, I'd recommend waiting either way. Soma is a fine brand 
but a Rivendell is much more exciting, and worth the wait as many people 
have said already. I have test ridden a Roadini and it was really special. 

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 7:28:37 AM UTC-7, Alan H wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>
> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
> (Friday).
>
> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He told 
> me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>
> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially since 
> I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>
> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
> look of the Stanyan 
>  in pearl 
> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
> ride qualities.
>
> Thanks in advance for you input!
>
> -Alan
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Alan H]

Thanks for the input. That speed difference is huge! Two things that jumped 
out at me, one regarding the speed difference and the other the fit.

1. Based on the current websites the 48-cm ES uses a 700c wheel, whereas 
the 47-cm Roadini uses a 650b. I don't have a lot of experience with direct 
speed comparisons between wheel sizes, but could this be a factor? It would 
certainly explain why racers prefer the larger wheel size.

2. Again, based on data from the current website, the 48-cm ES has a seat 
tube angle of 75-degrees, whereas the 47-cm Roadini has a seat tube angle 
of 72 degrees. Assuming a saddle height of 65-cm (and that I remember how 
to do trigonometry), that means a zero-setback saddle mount will be 16.8 cm 
behind the pedals on the ES and 20.1 cm behind the pedals for the Roadini. 
So for the same seat post attached in the same rail position, the saddle 
will be about 3.3-cm (1.3") further behind the pedals on the Roadini than 
it is on the ES. Considering a Thompson seat post only changes the seat 
bout about 1.6-cm (0.6") between the straight and setback versions, it 
seems like it would be very difficult to get the seat in the same position 
for the two bikes.  The difference *might* lead to the feeling that you're 
behind the pedals on the Roadini and the pedals are behind you on the ES. A 
straight seat post on the Roadini with the saddle as far forward on the 
rails as possible might feel the same as a setback seat post on the ES with 
the saddle as far back on the rails as possible. Of course then all you'd 
have done was to make the Roadini feel as uncomfortable as the ES, which 
hardly seems worth the effort.


On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 7:34:41 PM UTC-7, G.E. wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd throw in my experience, for what it may be worth. 
>
> I currently own a Roadini (non-orange) and have owned a Soma ES in the 
> past (also had a Riv-made-for-Soma San Marcos). I am a vertically 
> challenged rider, so my experience may not be the same as someone who rides 
> a more standard size; however, comparing the 47cm Roadini to the 46 (now 
> 48) cm ES, the Roadini fits me better, but I both felt and physically was 
> faster on the ES - significantly faster (averaging 3-5mph faster on 20-40 
> mile rides). The Soma geometry seems to not be quite right for me so that 
> my body sits in a rather odd position with pedals too far behind me. The 
> Roadini is more comfortable, which in theory allows the body to handle 
> longer distances, but the slower speeds leave me frustrated on many rides. 
>
> My ES was actually set up with "worse" parts than the Roadini (the ES was 
> equipped with Sora level components while the Roadini is built with 
> Ultegra), but the ES was a speedier ride, even with the lower level 
> components. So, depending on what I was looking for, and assuming that 
> Soma's geometry works for the rider, I wouldn't necessarily be against 
> purchasing a Soma. Though with that said, I wouldn't reject the Riv either 
> as others that I've heard from haven't had the same experience I've had and 
> sometimes comfort is more important to the rider than the speedometer. :)
>
> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 8:28:37 AM UTC-6, Alan H wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>>
>> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
>> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
>> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
>> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
>> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
>> (Friday).
>>
>> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He 
>> told me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
>> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
>> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
>> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>>
>> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially 
>> since I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
>> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>>
>> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
>> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
>> look of the Stanyan 
>>  in pearl 
>> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
>> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
>> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
>> ride qualities.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for you input!
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I ordered a Riv Road custom in 2001, designed for 28mm tires, 32mm max, 
because who needs bigger road tires than that? (Times have changed, 
thoughts evolved. :-)) The frame came looking beautiful. But my Dura Ace 
7400 rear brake wouldn't reach the rim. Like PatrickM my rear brake bridge 
was too high. After discussing with Grant, I ground the bottom of my brake 
caliper to get it to fit. It has been no problem for the last 17 years. As 
Eamon pointed out I am now frustrated that my rear wheel can take a Jack 
Brown tire and the front cannot. I wish Rivendell had made that mistake on 
the front brake spacing too!

To comment on G.E.'s experience, I have found different tires to make a 
average speed difference. Perhaps that's some of the difference? From my 
experience, differences in other components or normal, not extreme, frame 
variations would create no more than some small fraction of a mph speed 
difference, if any.

Joe in GJT

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 9:39:14 PM UTC-6, Alan H wrote:
>
> I talked to Vince at Riv again today. So apparently the issue is that the 
>> bike was designed with the bridge as far away as possible to max out the 57 
>> mm brakes. Unfortunately the bridge was made with the bridge 1 mm too far 
>> out so that the pads won't quite clear the tire without filing out the hole 
>> a bit (like Patrick mentioned doing on his custom). 
>>
>
> Based on the feedback I got here and from Vince and from carefully 
> considering what I really want, I've opted to just wait until the in-spec 
> frames are delivered in November or December. I'm lucky to have a Clem and 
> a Homer to ride in the mean time so I'll wait for the road bike that I 
> really want rather than settle for something just because I can get it now.
>
> Thanks to you all for helping me work through this and from helping me not 
> make the decision I would regret!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[phil k]

Alan, I understand your frustration. I've paid twice more for a semi-custom 
production frame and have had problems.

I would wait until December, that is, if you already have a bike. I think 
Riv's are always worth the couple months of waiting.

Phil

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 10:28:37 AM UTC-4, Alan H wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>
> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
> (Friday).
>
> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He told 
> me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>
> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially since 
> I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>
> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
> look of the Stanyan 
>  in pearl 
> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
> ride qualities.
>
> Thanks in advance for you input!
>
> -Alan
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Ryan M.]

I'd be interested to hear the tire and wheel differences in your two 
builds. 3 to 5mph seems excessive, but not if we are talking knobby on 
heavy wheels vs. slick on light wheels. Also, are the fits that much 
different?  If your body sits a lot differently on the Riv compared to the 
Soma you can be killing off some power potential. (I seem to be suffering 
from this on my cross bike which I just cannot get fit to me 
properly...probably will be on the lookout for something different this 
winter.)

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 9:34:41 PM UTC-5, G.E. wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd throw in my experience, for what it may be worth. 
>
> I currently own a Roadini (non-orange) and have owned a Soma ES in the 
> past (also had a Riv-made-for-Soma San Marcos). I am a vertically 
> challenged rider, so my experience may not be the same as someone who rides 
> a more standard size; however, comparing the 47cm Roadini to the 46 (now 
> 48) cm ES, the Roadini fits me better, but I both felt and physically was 
> faster on the ES - significantly faster (averaging 3-5mph faster on 20-40 
> mile rides). The Soma geometry seems to not be quite right for me so that 
> my body sits in a rather odd position with pedals too far behind me. The 
> Roadini is more comfortable, which in theory allows the body to handle 
> longer distances, but the slower speeds leave me frustrated on many rides. 
>
> My ES was actually set up with "worse" parts than the Roadini (the ES was 
> equipped with Sora level components while the Roadini is built with 
> Ultegra), but the ES was a speedier ride, even with the lower level 
> components. So, depending on what I was looking for, and assuming that 
> Soma's geometry works for the rider, I wouldn't necessarily be against 
> purchasing a Soma. Though with that said, I wouldn't reject the Riv either 
> as others that I've heard from haven't had the same experience I've had and 
> sometimes comfort is more important to the rider than the speedometer. :)
>
> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 8:28:37 AM UTC-6, Alan H wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>>
>> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
>> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
>> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
>> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
>> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
>> (Friday).
>>
>> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He 
>> told me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
>> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
>> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
>> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>>
>> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially 
>> since I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
>> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>>
>> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
>> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
>> look of the Stanyan 
>>  in pearl 
>> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
>> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
>> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
>> ride qualities.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for you input!
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Max S]

GE, that’s a very interesting account. Not doubting your experience, but would 
be curious to see photos of each bike, and maybe your position on each. 3 MPH 
difference in average speed over a 20-40 mile ride is a *huge* amount, in my 
experience, that is unlikely to come from differences in quality of components 
or bike frame — only large differences in fit, or an odd coincidence of rest / 
fitness levels. (You did say “pedals behind me”, which is odd, as pedals are 
always in front or below of the body on a normally set up diamond frame... 
unless you’re doing it Chris Boardman style time trial.) 

- Max “if it does not fit, you must not sit” in A2

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[G.E.]

Just thought I'd throw in my experience, for what it may be worth. 

I currently own a Roadini (non-orange) and have owned a Soma ES in the past 
(also had a Riv-made-for-Soma San Marcos). I am a vertically challenged 
rider, so my experience may not be the same as someone who rides a more 
standard size; however, comparing the 47cm Roadini to the 46 (now 48) cm 
ES, the Roadini fits me better, but I both felt and physically was faster 
on the ES - significantly faster (averaging 3-5mph faster on 20-40 mile 
rides). The Soma geometry seems to not be quite right for me so that my 
body sits in a rather odd position with pedals too far behind me. The 
Roadini is more comfortable, which in theory allows the body to handle 
longer distances, but the slower speeds leave me frustrated on many rides. 

My ES was actually set up with "worse" parts than the Roadini (the ES was 
equipped with Sora level components while the Roadini is built with 
Ultegra), but the ES was a speedier ride, even with the lower level 
components. So, depending on what I was looking for, and assuming that 
Soma's geometry works for the rider, I wouldn't necessarily be against 
purchasing a Soma. Though with that said, I wouldn't reject the Riv either 
as others that I've heard from haven't had the same experience I've had and 
sometimes comfort is more important to the rider than the speedometer. :)

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 8:28:37 AM UTC-6, Alan H wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Looking for some feedback from folks here about the orange Roadinis.
>
> Last week I placed an order for one of the new orange Roadinis in a size 
> 50 (thanks to my darned 80 cm pbh). After a week without any news from Riv 
> (and having my cc charged), I called to find out when the bike would ship. 
> I was told that they had received a lot of orders and were running a light 
> crew because of Interbike and that my bike would pack and ship yesterday 
> (Friday).
>
> Yesterday I got a call from Vince saying that there was a problem. He told 
> me that the brake bridge on the orange Roadini frames was in the wrong 
> place and that standard road brake calipers wouldn't work. While he told me 
> the frame would work with longer pull brakes (like Tektros or Pauls), 
> frames with the correct brake bridge wouldn't be back in until December.
>
> Needless to say I'm a little disappointed and frustrated, especially since 
> I logged on here today and saw folks talking about their new orange 
> Roadinis. Has anyone else gotten a similar story from Riv? 
>
> On a related topic, since I'm apparently not getting a Roadini, does 
> anyone have experience with Soma's road frames? In particular I like the 
> look of the Stanyan 
>  in pearl 
> white. It has a geometry similar to their ES model and is a fully lugged 
> steel frame at a very attractive price point. The Roadini was obviously my 
> first choice, but I wonder how the Soma stacks up in terms of build and 
> ride qualities.
>
> Thanks in advance for you input!
>
> -Alan
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[tc]

Alan, I'm glad you've decided to wait, though I understand your 
frustration.  The Roadini is such a nice bike, and worth the wait.  No one 
here (who has actually ridden one) will tell you otherwise!

If it makes you feel any better, I ordered mine in April and didn't get it 
until August.  What took so long?  Well, I had a custom paint job done, 
and, the original water-based decals basically eroded when clear coat was 
applied, so I had to wait until the non-water-based decal vendor shipped 
them.  I had 2 other bikes to ride, so my frustration was minimized.

I look fwd to your pictures :)

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Joe Bernard]

It's worth the wait, Alan. Orange Roadinis RULE! 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/m5CBYUsrzVVfGrYWA

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Alan H]

>
> I talked to Vince at Riv again today. So apparently the issue is that the 
> bike was designed with the bridge as far away as possible to max out the 57 
> mm brakes. Unfortunately the bridge was made with the bridge 1 mm too far 
> out so that the pads won't quite clear the tire without filing out the hole 
> a bit (like Patrick mentioned doing on his custom). 
>

Based on the feedback I got here and from Vince and from carefully 
considering what I really want, I've opted to just wait until the in-spec 
frames are delivered in November or December. I'm lucky to have a Clem and 
a Homer to ride in the mean time so I'll wait for the road bike that I 
really want rather than settle for something just because I can get it now.

Thanks to you all for helping me work through this and from helping me not 
make the decision I would regret!

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Joe Bernard]

He could always snap up the blue 50 on the Garage Sale page. I prefer the 
orange, too, but that's a really nice bike. 

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[RBW] Re: Problem with Roadinis?

[Lum Gim Fong]

They have a list of Rivdealers on their website. You could call around and 
see if anyone has a proper brake bridged Roadini.
But I would wait, too. Worth it.
If you get the Soma, you might one day think that you should have got the 
Roadini instead.
The Roadini is made with very thought out tubing.
I don't know what the Soma tubing is, but I could email you the Roadini 
tube specs if you want to compare. 

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