Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[masmojo]

I am certainly not in favor of change for the sake of it, but there comes a 
point where you simply have to face the weather, 1 1/8" steer tubes, disc 
brakes & index shifting are not newfangled fads, they are pretty much the 
standard now & have been for some time. Yeah, you can still get quill stems, 
but the days when I had a box of quill stems to cull from is more or less gone. 
 Disc brakes? Well, I'm a cantilever die hard, I love the elegance and 
simplicity, but typically these days I buy bikes with disc brakes, even cheap 
ones work well and once you get used to them & learn a few tricks, disc brakes 
are easy to adjust.
Friction shifting? I am OK with it generally and I HATE Push-push, trigger 
shifters, but an indexing thumb shifter? Why not? Not much more annoying 
offroad, then needing to make a quick shift & NOT hitting it. Even around town, 
missing a shift can be annoying, (& sometimes dangerous).
I love my Rivendells & will continue to buy them, but I embrace them in spite 
of these characteristics not because I find them advantageous or desirable. 
Indeed a large portion of the people posting here are wishing for things that 
are distinctly un-Rivendellian.
Should Rivendell change, get with the times? Would it make them less "them"? I 
don't know, but maybe if the opportunity presents itself, slowly working some 
of these elements in,  wouldn't hurt anything.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/20/2018 09:04 AM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:


Disc brakes, because I see rim brake rims and hubs being unavailable 
very soon


I'm sure this is a gross exaggeration, and squarely falls under the term 
FUD  - /Fear, 
Uncertainty and Doubt/.  How long has it been since a new bicycle was 
available with 27 x 1 1/4" wheels?  35 years? More?  Certainly decades.  
And yet, you can still buy rims and tires in that size.  How long since 
120mm freewheel hubs were standard on bicycles?  Certainly longer than 
that.  And yet, I'm confident if I wanted such a thing I could source 
hubs like that in a matter of minutes.


As it says in the Wikipedia article I linked to, "FUD is generally a 
strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious 
or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear 
."  If you want to make 
the case for disc brakes, I wish you'd try to do it on the merits -- 
for, although I personally have no use for them in my fleet I do agree 
they have some merits (as well as some drawbacks that for me far 
outweigh any potential benefits) -- rather than appealing to fear.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bill Lindsay]

I like your burnt orange Roadeo a lot. It looks great with Barlow Pass tires. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Ben Miller]

My apologies if I butchered your words, Bill. I'll be more careful in the 
future ;) You are correct, there is no way that the Roadeo could fit 44's. 
The 38' are very tight as is. Probably not recommended and that's why Riv 
lists 35's as max. 

I'm currently laid up with a broken leg, which is keeping me pretty 
immobile. (Not a bike accident) So, getting the bike down to take a picture 
is out of the question at the moment. As I recall there is about 1.5 mm of 
clearance (41 mm gap at chainstay). But, to not totally leave you 
wondering, here is a few pictures of the 
bike https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd3t8J1hh0b/?hl=en

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:43:42 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Careful there.  That's not exactly what I said.  Laing said he wanted a 
> stripped down roadbike that took 38 or 44 tires.  Steve Palinscar responded 
> by recommending that Laing buy a Roadeo.  I responded to Steve's 
> recommendation that a Roadeo "does not take 38 or 44 tires".  In one sense, 
> I was wrong.  If the question was "Does a Roadeo allow you to use EITHER 
> 38mm OR 44mm tires?" then you've shown the answer is yes.  If the question 
> is "Does a Roadeo give me the freedom to run my choice of 38mm or 44mm 
> tires?" then the answer is no.  
>
> It's cool that your Roadeo takes 38s, but I would bet a dollar that your 
> Roadeo can't take 44mm tires, and that's all I intended.  
>
> Please post photos of the closest clearance spots on your Roadeo with 
> 700x38 tires, if you don't mind.  What width rims are you running?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:05:42 AM UTC-8, Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>> Bill Lindsay wrote that the Roadeo doesn't take 38mm tyres. 
>>
>> That is what the official Riv geometry charts says. I however have been 
>> riding my Roadeo with Compass 700x38 tyres for at least 3000 km. 
>>
>> Also, I'm basically at the opposite end from Laing. I wish my Roadeo came 
>> with Mid fork rack braze-ons and have often thought about adding them. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bill Lindsay]

Careful there.  That's not exactly what I said.  Laing said he wanted a 
stripped down roadbike that took 38 or 44 tires.  Steve Palinscar responded 
by recommending that Laing buy a Roadeo.  I responded to Steve's 
recommendation that a Roadeo "does not take 38 or 44 tires".  In one sense, 
I was wrong.  If the question was "Does a Roadeo allow you to use EITHER 
38mm OR 44mm tires?" then you've shown the answer is yes.  If the question 
is "Does a Roadeo give me the freedom to run my choice of 38mm or 44mm 
tires?" then the answer is no.  

It's cool that your Roadeo takes 38s, but I would bet a dollar that your 
Roadeo can't take 44mm tires, and that's all I intended.  

Please post photos of the closest clearance spots on your Roadeo with 
700x38 tires, if you don't mind.  What width rims are you running?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:05:42 AM UTC-8, Ben Miller wrote:
>
> Bill Lindsay wrote that the Roadeo doesn't take 38mm tyres. 
>
> That is what the official Riv geometry charts says. I however have been 
> riding my Roadeo with Compass 700x38 tyres for at least 3000 km. 
>
> Also, I'm basically at the opposite end from Laing. I wish my Roadeo came 
> with Mid fork rack braze-ons and have often thought about adding them. 
>
> Ben
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bob Lovejoy]

Someone on a different thread on a different list mentioned Ironweed bike 
bags (made in Iowa!) and so I just had to go look.
http://www.ironweedbp.com/gallery.html

Well, on their gallery page, they have pictures of both an Atlantis (Riv 
content - check!) and a Moulton F-style, as well as others, to show off 
their bags.  I mean, how cool that they would have a Moulton of that 
vintage and showcased at that.

Though I know there are things that might come close, if Rivendell 
created/sourced/sold a Moulton F inspired city bike, there is no way I 
could keep from buying one!   "For real..." as friends here say...

With big and even smaller cities all the rage, and utility biking so 
needed, but with stairs to climb to apartments, condo's, etc. - I would say 
absolutely yes on something truly like the old Moulton F!   It would 
probably not be your only bike but under a lot of scenarios, it might be 
the most fun - and useful!

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL   


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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Ben Miller]

Bill Lindsay wrote that the Roadeo doesn't take 38mm tyres. 

That is what the official Riv geometry charts says. I however have been riding 
my Roadeo with Compass 700x38 tyres for at least 3000 km. 

Also, I'm basically at the opposite end from Laing. I wish my Roadeo came with 
Mid fork rack braze-ons and have often thought about adding them. 

Ben

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[lconley]

>
> I guess it can be said that fenders will get you through times of no rain 
> better than rain can get you through times of no fenders,
>

Laing 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Clayton.sf]

2 of my bikes have fenders and 2 don't.

While I am pro fender, I am hesitant to add much more than clip ons to my 
dirt bikes (and even there they are usually downtube "mounted") due to 
safety reasons. 
In addition, I typically stay off the trails when they are wet to give them 
a break.

I do like having eyelets on all my frames though incase I want to ressign 
its purpose.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA


On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 9:10:20 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> C'mon! This is New Mexico! Besides, I have another Riv with fenders.
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 6:10 AM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>>
>> But how much fun is a soaking wet a$$?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Lum Gim Fong]

@TonyDe

Interesting points.
I was just thinking of single sized fasteners on whole bike, but don’t know how 
could be done. Nice to only carry one allen wrench. Maybe all the heads have 
only one sized allen hole even though the bolt shafts could be diff.

RE: shortened tt for longer stem arsthetics.
I tried using a longer stem on my bike and it made it more wobbly handling. So 
I just stick to my 6 cm stems.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

lconley wrote: *If you have a serious bike hoarding disease, they don't all 
need to have fenders.*

Of course they don't. Right now more than half of mine are fenderless. My 
point was (IMO, of course)  it's kind of pointless to take away the 
possibility. But sure, no braze ons for fenders. Not on a stock Rivendell 
though.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Whooboy... and I've become overwhelmed with just 4 (8 completes in the 
family, 4 each between my wife an I) and a couple old frames and boxes of 
spare parts. 

Truth be told, as an owner of only one Riv I think my 65cm Clem H is the 
only bike I'd realistically ever need... and although completely joking 
about a Pugsley-Hunq hybrid I'm serious about longing for a fully lugged 
Clem/Hunq/Bombadil-ish custom with swappable front/rear wheels.

I'm finding I no longer have the time/space to ride/maintain more than one 
or two bikes.  Still scheming to find ways to reduce but keep "alternates" 
available in storage and rotate at leisure and when time permits.

But with that said I do believe a 68cm Quickbeam/Simpleone/Frank Jones Sr., 
64cm Sage DTT Sam, or 67cm AHH (*maybe with QB/S1/FJ trackends plus 
derailer hanger or long campy type horizontals) would likely push those 
custom thoughts aside and warrant more immediate action.

*replacing verticals on these hypothetical Sam/AHH would be conditional in 
that it would complement my existing vertical equipped Clem H and therefore 
allow fixed/free ss or geared drivetrains in a lighter duty/sportier frame. 

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:01:41 AM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:51:54 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>>
>> I have 22 bicycles, 9 of them Rivs ...
>>
>   
> Nothing to add to the main disucssion, but DAMN.  I thought I was the 
> worst one here!   You're my new hero!  (Really) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Patrick Moore]

C'mon! This is New Mexico! Besides, I have another Riv with fenders.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 6:10 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
> But how much fun is a soaking wet a$$?
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:51:54 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> I have 22 bicycles, 9 of them Rivs ...
>
  
Nothing to add to the main disucssion, but DAMN.  I thought I was the worst 
one here!   You're my new hero!  (Really) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[lconley]

I have 22 bicycles, 9 of them Rivs (including FJ Jr). many of them have 
fenders. I spent ~21 months in the last two years in Seattle. I had several 
different bikes in Seattle at different times (including a fendered, belt 
drive, disc-braked, IGH Scott SUB 10 and a LWB Riv Protopaloosa). If you 
have a serious bike hoarding disease, they don't all need to have fenders.

Laing


On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:

> Fenders will not protect you from getting wet in the rain, no matter where 
> you live. They do prevent road schmutz (and excess water in shorter rides 
> in non-monsoon conditions) from being deposited all over your shoes, the 
> bottom portion of your legs, your back, your drivetrain, and any pals that 
> might be riding behind you. Also, in the age of bikeflights, who is to say 
> your machine will spend its whole life in the Sunshine State 
> ? 
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Fenders will not protect you from getting wet in the rain, no matter where 
you live. They do prevent road schmutz (and excess water in shorter rides 
in non-monsoon conditions) from being deposited all over your shoes, the 
bottom portion of your legs, your back, your drivetrain, and any pals that 
might be riding behind you. Also, in the age of bikeflights, who is to say 
your machine will spend its whole life in the Sunshine State 
? 

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:44:26 AM UTC-5, lconley wrote:
>
> In Florida, the rain usually comes down so hard that you are soaked to the 
> skin in less than a minute, fenders or not - twenty minutes later you can 
> be completely dry because the rain has gone and it insanely hot again 
> (hooray for MUSA shorts). The rain in Seattle is completely different 
> - fenders there make a lot more difference. I do have multiple other Rivs 
> with fenders.
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm pretty satisfied with my 60cm Canti-Saluki, paired with a Jones Plus I 
officially have more bike capability than I have time in the week to thoroughly 
enjoy - though I try valiantly!

But in the spirit of the original question... The Jones fills the place in my 
stable for dedicated singletrack and bikepacking (fantasies) so I won't as to 
the chorus of an even rougher stuff, disc'd Riv.  

However I'd trade in my Saluki for one with the following tweaks (in order of 
priority);

0. Stable, integrated double kick stand provision... That doesn't require 
warnings about destroying my chainstays.
1. Rivendell sticker/headbadge
2. 2-3cm less TT to allow for +10-20mm stem length, mostly aesthetics but I do 
think I'd like a slightly shorter reach for drop bars than I can do now without 
skying the bars. Oh and I don't want to loose anything in the overlap so figure 
that out to!
3. +10mm clearance at the rear stays and fork crown to make for generous 
(instead of adequate) 42mm tire clearance with fenders.
4. I want my original Toyo fork back, it had a beautiful graceful taper and 
finer dropouts that is far more elegant than the replacement Waterford fork I 
have now, oh and I'd put the SON connector-less dropout.
4. Speaking of dropouts... TA front and back.  I don't care that canti brakes 
don't need it, I love the TA front on my Jones, it's a better connection.  I 
guess I'd also be looking for someone to make non-disc TA hubs to.  I'd use the 
Jones hex head flush TA skewers... 
5. Integrated Dyno rear light wired into a seat stay, internal wire run and 
some sort of braze on light mount - fender mount looks better but means you 
can't take fenders off without some extra step even if that step is just a 
quick disconnect you need to mount a battery light.
6. Some kind of quick(er) release for fenders, so the front fender attachment 
shouldn't require changes in the front rack attachment.
7. Common tooling - not unachievable even on my current frame but I'd be 
intrigued if this was a selling point of a Riv 'complete'... Minimize the 
number of different fastener tools required to do Trailside service/repair.

Hmmm, there's probably more but this is enough.  Definitely polishing the 
apple... My Saluki is pretty great.

Tony


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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[lconley]

I don't think Rivendell will do no fender eyelets, even on a custom, 
judging by the custom order form. 

In Florida, the rain usually comes down so hard that you are soaked to the 
skin in less than a minute, fenders or not - twenty minutes later you can 
be completely dry because the rain has gone and it insanely hot again 
(hooray for MUSA shorts). The rain in Seattle is completely different 
- fenders there make a lot more difference. I do have multiple other Rivs 
with fenders.

I just got the shipping notice for the Frank Jones, Sr. - time to finish my 
1st attempt at Harlequin bar tape. I have laced the polished rims to the 
Hi-Lo Campy hubs that have been converted to track axles with nuts. 38mm 
Compass tan Barlow Pass EL tires have been mounted. The biggest question is 
how many of my bikes will be stripped of their bottom brackets trying to 
find the correct width for the FJ Jr.

Laing
Cocoa, FL

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/05/2018 10:57 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Damned right!

Patrick Moore, with his little Dremel, his little hacksaw, his little 
bastard file, and his little grinding wheel, in ABQ, NM


Related image

The spirit that sacked Rome is hardly fazed by the likes of a fender 
eyelet...





But Laing, leaving these philistines aside, I have to agree with you 
-- a roady Riv with the practicality left to other bikes. After all, 
the principal reason for riding a bike is /FUN/ and practicality is a 
very distant second value; saving the earth is an even more distant 3d 
-- though practical and earth friendly are hardly to be sneered at. 
But /FUN/ is the /summum bonum/ of bike riding, unless you do it 
because you can't afford a car and have no bus routes; and if you are 
that sort, you won't be buying a Riv, let me tell you.


But how much fun is a soaking wet a$$?



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steven Sweedler]

I couldn’t agree more with Mark, and I have read Grant’s thoughts on this
many times, the move to have dropouts with eyelets is one he never agreed
with. It seems to me that this thread has been suggesting many bikes that
are anti-Riv.
Steve

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 6:44 AM 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Wow. I just do not get that. Even on my bikes that I don't ever plan to
> run with fenders, I like having drop outs that permit them--and who knows,
> one day I might. I think it makes the bike more comely overall, and plenty
> racey without being a prima donna. (Roadeo does not have a kickstand plate,
> mate.) My 1960s and 70s racing bicycles (Louison Bobet and Ron Kitching)
> have fender eyelets, long chainstays, relaxed geometry and take 35mm tires.
> I have a 70s sport frame that takes a 42. I see no point in wider 700c
> tires, as I believe it starts to negatively impact handling. I think a
> Rodeo or Legolas without fender eyelets is probably more blasphemous than a
> disc'd Rivendell;^) I mean really now.
>
> [image: IW_Bianchi-1950-Fausto-Coppi_02]
>
> Fausto Coppi's Bianchi, a 1960s Legnano and my early 1980s ZebraKenko with
> 35s (could probably go 38). Tell me those little fenderoo braze ons aren't
> sexy.
>
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:59:15 PM UTC-5, lconley wrote:
>>
>> A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes with
>> fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons. What I want is a
>> "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on the front or rear dropouts or
>> forks or seatstays, no kickstand plate. Everything else can be the same -
>> long chainstays, long top tube, relaxed geometry, 700c x 38 or 44, etc.
>> Centerpulls or cantilevers would be ok as long as the cable stop and
>> posts were brazed onto the seatstays and forks. Half chromed forks and
>> seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road bike that rides like a Riv.
>> Not very likely. Not even sure that it could happen on a custom. Basically,
>> I want a fatter tired, higher handlebar (still drops) cross between my old
>> Masi and my Paramount.
>>
>> Laing
>> Cocoa, FL
>>
>>
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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Patrick Moore]

Damned right!

Patrick Moore, with his little Dremel, his little hacksaw, his little
bastard file, and his little grinding wheel, in ABQ, NM

But Laing, leaving these philistines aside, I have to agree with you -- a
roady Riv with the practicality left to other bikes. After all, the
principal reason for riding a bike is *FUN* and practicality is a very
distant second value; saving the earth is an even more distant 3d -- though
practical and earth friendly are hardly to be sneered at. But *FUN* is
the *summum
bonum* of bike riding, unless you do it because you can't afford a car and
have no bus routes; and if you are that sort, you won't be buying a Riv,
let me tell you.

But this gofast: I have found in the almost 20 years of ownership that this
stripped down bike delivers hugely on fun and, I was thinking to myself
today, if I had to choose just 1 bike, it might just be this one.

I just had a wonderful early afternoon ride on my '99 Joe custom 76" fixie
-- Grant agreed to build it with just 1 set of cage bosses and no housing
stops *a-tall*, and of course no rd hangar; saved me quite a bit of
Dremeling. 76" gear; windy today, and for some reason, this bike just feels
easier to pedal than any of my others, including the '03 Curt which is
almost identical, but which is built with all the fenders and lights and
racks and such doodads.

Chauncey is to come on Sat and take the '99 away for longer dropouts and
(ahem) that second set of cage bosses for the seat tube. Joe used Riv's
then-model "short horizontals" which required me quite a bit of elbow
grease with a large rattail file to accommodate a 46 X 15 and a bit of
chain stretch. Fortunately, a very little dropout removal goes a heckofa
long way in chain takeup.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> There's little in the way of unsightly versatility our Mighty Patrick of
> the Moore can't strip away...   :-)
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steve Palincsar]

There's little in the way of unsightly versatility our Mighty Patrick of 
the Moore can't strip away... :-)



On 02/05/2018 05:32 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
A Roadeo doesn't take 38mm or 44mm tires.  It sounds like Laing needs 
something more like an A. Homer Hilsen with its unsightly versatility 
stripped away.


Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:12:32 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:

Perhaps you could get a Roadeo and invite Patrick Moore to come
visit you in Florida and tell him to bring his Dremel.  He can
remove those unsightly fender eyelets for you, having had practice
at this...

Per the Riv web site:

/The //Roadeo//is our answer to speedy carbon road bikes that
cost the same or more, last one-fifth as long or less, and
aren't as safe, comfortable, versatile or good-looking./

//

/It's the bike to get for speedy riding without racks and
bags, except for maybe a seat or bar bag. Basically, it's not
a "light touring" bike, or anything of the sort. It's a bike
for swift solo rides and fast club rides, where riding is the
thing, as opposed to doing something on your bike./

Sure sounds like /exactly/ what you're describing, except for the
eyelets.

On 02/05/2018 04:59 PM, lconley wrote:

A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes
with fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons.
What I want is a "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on
the front or rear dropouts or forks or seatstays, no kickstand
plate. Everything else can be the same - long chainstays, long
top tube, relaxed geometry, 700c x 38 or 44, etc. Centerpulls or
cantilevers would be ok as long as the cable stop and posts were
brazed onto the seatstays and forks. Half chromed forks and
seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road bike that rides
like a Riv. Not very likely. Not even sure that it could happen
on a custom. Basically, I want a fatter tired, higher
handlebar (still drops) cross between my old Masi and my Paramount.

Laing
Cocoa, FL






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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bill Lindsay]

A Roadeo doesn't take 38mm or 44mm tires.  It sounds like Laing needs 
something more like an A. Homer Hilsen with its unsightly versatility 
stripped away.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:12:32 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Perhaps you could get a Roadeo and invite Patrick Moore to come visit you 
> in Florida and tell him to bring his Dremel.  He can remove those unsightly 
> fender eyelets for you, having had practice at this...
>
> Per the Riv web site:
>
> *The **Roadeo** is our answer to speedy carbon road bikes that cost the 
> same or more, last one-fifth as long or less, and aren't as safe, 
> comfortable, versatile or good-looking.*
>
> *It's the bike to get for speedy riding without racks and bags, except for 
> maybe a seat or bar bag. Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or 
> anything of the sort. It's a bike for swift solo rides and fast club rides, 
> where riding is the thing, as opposed to doing something on your bike.*
>
> Sure sounds like *exactly* what you're describing, except for the eyelets.
>
> On 02/05/2018 04:59 PM, lconley wrote:
>
> A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes with 
> fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons. What I want is a 
> "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on the front or rear dropouts or 
> forks or seatstays, no kickstand plate. Everything else can be the same - 
> long chainstays, long top tube, relaxed geometry, 700c x 38 or 44, etc. 
> Centerpulls or cantilevers would be ok as long as the cable stop and 
> posts were brazed onto the seatstays and forks. Half chromed forks and 
> seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road bike that rides like a Riv. 
> Not very likely. Not even sure that it could happen on a custom. Basically, 
> I want a fatter tired, higher handlebar (still drops) cross between my old 
> Masi and my Paramount. 
>
> Laing 
> Cocoa, FL
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steve Palincsar]

Perhaps you could get a Roadeo and invite Patrick Moore to come visit 
you in Florida and tell him to bring his Dremel.  He can remove those 
unsightly fender eyelets for you, having had practice at this...


Per the Riv web site:

   /The //Roadeo//is our answer to speedy carbon road bikes that cost
   the same or more, last one-fifth as long or less, and aren't as
   safe, comfortable, versatile or good-looking./

   //

   /It's the bike to get for speedy riding without racks and bags,
   except for maybe a seat or bar bag. Basically, it's not a "light
   touring" bike, or anything of the sort. It's a bike for swift solo
   rides and fast club rides, where riding is the thing, as opposed to
   doing something on your bike./

Sure sounds like /exactly/ what you're describing, except for the eyelets.

On 02/05/2018 04:59 PM, lconley wrote:
A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes with 
fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons. What I want 
is a "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on the front or rear 
dropouts or forks or seatstays, no kickstand plate. Everything else 
can be the same - long chainstays, long top tube, relaxed geometry, 
700c x 38 or 44, etc. Centerpulls or cantilevers would be ok as long 
as the cable stop and posts were brazed onto the seatstays and forks. 
Half chromed forks and seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road 
bike that rides like a Riv. Not very likely. Not even sure that it 
could happen on a custom. Basically, I want a fatter tired, higher 
handlebar (still drops) cross between my old Masi and my Paramount.


Laing
Cocoa, FL




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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Patrick Moore]

Lugs and retro aesthetics have always been a part of Rivendell's purpose.
But I do agree that, even more important is the signature ride. But Will is
right; you buy Rivendell, you buy the package.

Patrick "non-anonymous" Moore, who thinks posters ought to include their
names.


> On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 10:02:07 AM UTC-6, anonomous wrote:
>>
>> ...
>> Maybe you think that all the superficial luxuries are part of Rivendell's
>> core brand. Maybe! But for me the real interest is the incredibly refined
>> and optimized geometry and construction. Lugs aren't worth anything to me,
>> personally.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bob B]

That's a really good point, Bill and Steve. I'd still like to see Riv to 
expand their low end taiwan made partially-tigged simple paint job 
framesets. For instance, Surly's not making (and I cant really imagine them 
making) a partially tigged rosco-esque mountain mixte, or anything close to 
a Clem. 

I empathize with the partially tigged thing on another level because I'd 
love to use my Riv (hunq) as my primary city commuting bike, but I've found 
that I'm too nervous locking it outside on an errand. I can see the appeal 
of a great frame that *doesn't* catch anyone's eye...

Bob B.
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, some regard the LHT as the functional equivalent to the Atlantis, 
insofar they can both be ridden across country with a full touring load.  I 
ride a 58cm 700c Atlantis, and if I wanted to acquire it's functional 
equivalent for a lot less money, I would definitely consider an LHT.  

Bike A:  80mm drop.  72/72 angles.  58.5cm TT.  45mm rake.  61cm FC.  47cm 
CS.  60cm stack 39cm reach
Bike B:  78mm drop.  72/72.5 angles.  58.6cm TT.  45mm rake.  46cm CS.  
60.6cm* stack 39.4cm reach  

Bike A is a 58cm Atlantis and Bike B is a 58cm 700c LHT.  I'd consider that 
close enough to enjoy an epic cycling experience.  If I'm buying a bike to 
savor the bike itself then maybe I'd be bored and not-in-love with an LHT, 
but if I'm buying a bike as a tool to enable a memorable cycling 
experience, then I have no doubts I could have that experience on an LHT if 
I needed to save a couple thousand dollars.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

*I'm surprised that the stack on the LHT is higher.  I would have expected 
it to be lower.  

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:33:45 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Some people are of the opinion that Surly has already done that, with 
> the LHT frame, and from what I can tell at a good bit less money than 
> $800.  I think the proposition that the LHT is an Atlantis clone is 
> debatable to dubious, but... 
>
>
> On 02/05/2018 12:23 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > I agree with islaysteve's interpretation that 'anonomous' wants an 
> > Atlantis clone frameset for $800.  I agree with that sentiment that it 
> > is possible.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Steve Palincsar]

Some people are of the opinion that Surly has already done that, with 
the LHT frame, and from what I can tell at a good bit less money than 
$800.  I think the proposition that the LHT is an Atlantis clone is 
debatable to dubious, but...



On 02/05/2018 12:23 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
I agree with islaysteve's interpretation that 'anonomous' wants an 
Atlantis clone frameset for $800.  I agree with that sentiment that it 
is possible.  The existence proof of that possibility is the Black 
Mountain Road framset for $595 is the functional equivalent of a $2600 
Roadeo.  Rivendell could absolutely clone the Atlantis in a 
Roadini-like tigged configuration.  They have everything they need to 
do that.  They'd just have to decide to do it and prioritize it over 
their other things.




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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[nash5510]

Haha! You got me!

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Conway Bennett]

FORK from a 59 cm Hunqapillar.  Sorry about that.

Fair winds,

Captain Conway Bennett
239.877.4119

On Feb 4, 2018 4:37 PM, "Joe Bernard"  wrote:

> What does "one from a 59cm" mean? I can't imagine you're really selling a
> Hunq frame/fork for $300.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Joe Bernard]

What does "one from a 59cm" mean? I can't imagine you're really selling a Hunq 
frame/fork for $300. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[nash5510]

Seriously?  Yeah, I will buy that right now.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Conway Bennett]

If someone wants a Hunqapillar I have one from a 59cm.  How's $300 shipped?


Captain Conway,
www.ChicaGoByBoat.com
@svnightswimming

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[nash5510]

No, they are pretty different.  

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 5:20:25 PM UTC-8, Sky Coulter wrote:
> Isn’t that the clem?
> 
> Sky in new west
> 
> > On Feb 3, 2018, at 5:11 PM, nash5...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > Something like a hunq but with the price point of a clem.  That would do it 
> > for me.  
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[John G.]

Alex wins this thread, IMHO.

Me? I could go for a Roadeo with the clearance of the Atlantis. But I guess the 
Legolas sorta covers that...

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[drew]

+1 on forks. I’d buy an Atlantis or hunq fork immediately and have someone 
braze disc tabs  on it right away. I know it’s weird, but I want a canti fork 
and a disc fork. 
(Also, if anyone has any recommendations for a custom builder who can make a 
1in threaded disc fork that is otherwise identical to an Atlantis fork, please 
let me know)

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Justin August]

Does Argo Cargo bike not fit your #1?

https://argobikes.com

-J

On Feb 3, 2018, 6:42 PM -0800, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles 
<4824...@gmail.com>, wrote:
> Wish list:
>
> 1. Clem style modular bakfiets attachment. Drop your fork, plug in your cargo 
> front end w/ 20" wheel & front brake cable ready to go Room for 2.5" 
> tires.
>
> 2. 650b (26 for smalls) Homer on steroids with light tubing, canti, room for 
> 2.0's & fenders I'd love a 63cm c-t level top tube size. Production MUSA,no 
> custom wait, pre order is fine.
>
> 3. Replacement forks!! 1" forks are rare as hens teeth. I'd happily pay $250.
>
> 4. Limited edition Charlie Cunningham inspired something
>
> 5. Way too niche but I'll put it here anyway. Raleigh DL-1/Tourist geometry 
> with modern everything else.
>
> Alex Wirth
> Rochester, NY
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Wish list:

1. Clem style modular bakfiets attachment.  Drop your fork, plug in your cargo 
front end w/ 20" wheel & front brake cable ready to go Room for 2.5" tires.

2. 650b (26 for smalls) Homer on steroids with light tubing, canti, room for 
2.0's & fenders I'd love a 63cm c-t level top tube size. Production MUSA,no 
custom wait, pre order is fine.

3. Replacement forks!! 1" forks are rare as hens teeth. I'd happily pay $250.

4. Limited edition Charlie Cunningham inspired something

5. Way too niche but I'll put it here anyway.  Raleigh DL-1/Tourist geometry 
with modern everything else.

Alex Wirth
Rochester, NY


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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Sky Coulter]

Isn’t that the clem?

Sky in new west

> On Feb 3, 2018, at 5:11 PM, nash5...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Something like a hunq but with the price point of a clem.  That would do it 
> for me.  
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Patrick Moore]

Ken: Photos of your customs, please.

Thanks.

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Ken Yokanovich <
reflector.collec...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  In the stable have: Custom- 700c all-rounder, Custom Road, Atlantis,
> HubbuHubbuH, and a custom Curt Goodrich Rohloff that emulates the
> all-rounder.
>
> I was just working in my home bike shop doing some cleaning and
> organizing. Came across a completed Rivendell Custom order form, with check
> attached!  What I was looking for was a combination of the Roadeo and my
> beloved departed Quickbeam.  Something with clearance for about a 700x33-35
> tire with fender, single speed, lighter weight tubing. I know it's wrong to
> design a bike around a specific part; but I have 2 pair of the old DiaCompe
> NGC450 center-pull brakes NOS that I would love to use for braze-on.  I'm
> in love with the custom head lugs, so would have held out for the custom.
> Fortunately; just got word that my Frank Jones has shipped and should
> arrive next week, along with a Cheviot for my daughter.
>
> Thinking I should be busy for a while; but seem to always have a severe
> case of N+1
>
>
> On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:21:26 AM UTC-6, drew wrote:
>>
>> It’s late and I’ve been inspired by lum gim fongs Willy nilly topic
>> creation.  I’ve owned 2 sams,  a hunq, Clem and Atlantis. Down to just an
>> Atlantis now and pretty happy. I’ve been thinking about what kind of model
>> would get me to buy a new rivendell again. So I pose the same question to
>> you all. (Let’s eliminate the things they won’t do, like low trail and disc
>> brakes)
>>
>> For me, it’d be a Roadini with clearances for
>> 2.1 tires or a canti cheviot.
>>
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