[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Niels Erik Kristensen]

If the motors you want to operate,are brushless,  why dont use brushless rc 
controllere for rc cars? I use 2 of these in my 
Centurion: 
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-brushless-car-esc-2s-4s-60a-w-reverse.html
  
  They are good for up to 800watt


fredag den 5. januar 2018 kl. 16.28.46 UTC+1 skrev Caleb Smith:
>
> Hi everyone, I'm putting this out here to see if the community can help me 
> figure out how to control this scooter controller as easily as possible. 
> So I have two of these controllers I'd like to put into my Locust
>
> https://www.allelectronics.com/item/msc-250/250-watt-controller-for-brushless-motors/1.html
> They use a switch to control direction and a 10k pot to regulate speed. 
> I'm not sure how to go about making these RC controllable like a standard 
> etc. Two forms of control will be needed, one to move the pot to control 
> speed and one to control the switch for direction. How to go about doing 
> that in an effective manner that will allow full control has me a bit 
> stumped. I know Frank developed a fancy control board for the brushed 
> unidirectional controllers, but I don't know if it would work for these or 
> if they're even available anymore. 
> If you all could give some ideas I'd appreciate it. Hopefully I'll be able 
> to get the Locust running again soon. 
> Thanks, 
> Caleb 

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Caleb Smith]

Hopefully they are neutrally timed then. If not, I guess I'll just have to live 
with it. I should be able to get the tank to drive straight by adjusting the 
trim on one of the channels though, right. I just won't have equal torque and 
efficiency on one of the motors.
Again, I appreciate the help, Joe. :)

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Joe Sommer]

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 7:36:12 PM UTC-5, Caleb Smith wrote:
>
> Joe, 
>
> You are right, it very well may. The issue I have though is one of the 
> motors is mounted inverted in my tank. Therefore if I have one motor 
> spinning CW the other (flipped 180 degrees) will be spinning CCW. So if the 
> motor are advanced timed I'll always be running one 'backwards' unless I'm 
> turning. 
> So am I correct in assuming that the motor connections, in this case, 
> don't really matter?
>

If the motor/controller combo is neutrally timed you will be OK.

If they are not neutrally timed, you will get a slight pull to one side
when you try to drive straight.

I will test with my tach.


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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Caleb Smith]

Joe, 

You are right, it very well may. The issue I have though is one of the motors 
is mounted inverted in my tank. Therefore if I have one motor spinning CW the 
other (flipped 180 degrees) will be spinning CCW. So if the motor are advanced 
timed I'll always be running one 'backwards' unless I'm turning. 
So am I correct in assuming that the motor connections, in this case, don't 
really matter?

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Joe Sommer]

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 5:56:18 PM UTC-5, Caleb Smith wrote:
>
> I haven't designated any of the wire connections yet on my build. In 
> reality, color coding shouldn't matter as motor direction can be switched 
> by swapping any two of the motor leads. If the interface can control the 
> speed and direction on the controller, setting the 'forward' rotation of 
> the motor will be as easy as swapping two wires, if even that.
>
> I don't use the sensor wires. 
>

Caleb,

It may matter which way you choose to define as CW or CCW
and consequently which motor/controller connections you use.

Some brushed DC motors are neutrally timed (same maximum
speed/torque in both directions).

Most brushed DC motors are not neutrally timed.  They provide 
more speed/torque in one direction versus the other other by 
subtle shift in brush locations.

I do not yet know if that controller emulates neutral timing or
if it biases timing to provide increased maximum speed/torque
in one direction.

Joe

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Caleb Smith]

Joe, 
I haven't designated any of the wire connections yet on my build. In reality, 
color coding shouldn't matter as motor direction can be switched by swapping 
any two of the motor leads. If the interface can control the speed and 
direction on the controller, setting the 'forward' rotation of the motor will 
be as easy as swapping two wires, if even that.

I don't use the sensor wires. 

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Joe Sommer]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 9:09:37 PM UTC-5, Caleb Smith wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Joe. I appreciate the help. 
> The motors I'm using are these from All Electronics.
>
> https://www.allelectronics.com/item/dcm-459/3-phase-brushless-dc-motor/1.html


Caleb,

I just ordered a DCM-459 motor and an MSC-250 controller.

1)  Which controller wires (blue/yellow/green) do you have connected to 
which motor wires (red/black/green) ?

2)  Are you using motor sensor wires (brown/blue/orange/yellow/grey) ?

Joe


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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Caleb Smith]

Thanks a lot, Joe. I appreciate the help. 
The motors I'm using are these from All Electronics.
https://www.allelectronics.com/item/dcm-459/3-phase-brushless-dc-motor/1.html

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Joe Sommer]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 7:38:54 PM UTC-5, Caleb Smith wrote:
>
> Thanks, Joe. While I'm currently illiterate when it comes to Arduino I've 
> wanted to learn the basics for a while. This project may be kick in the 
> pants to get me going. If anybody has any good resources that they know of 
> for a beginner I'd love to hear about it!


I found my old code and schematics for the YK48 controller .
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=171

I also attached my old manual.

I will buy one of the MSC-250 controllers from All-Electronic to test
with an Arduino.  If I get it operational, I will send you code and 
schematics for you to modify.

Unfortunately I do not have any suitable motors to test with it.
Where did you get your motors?

Joe

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yk48_manual_080309.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Caleb Smith]

Thanks, Joe. While I'm currently illiterate when it comes to Arduino I've 
wanted to learn the basics for a while. This project may be kick in the pants 
to get me going. If anybody has any good resources that they know of for a 
beginner I'd love to hear about it!

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[TANKS] Re: Brushless scooter controller rc interface

[Joe Sommer]

Caleb,

Long ago, I designed and sold an RC interface for brushed scooter motor 
controllers 
using a PIC microprocessor.  Unfortunately I no longer the have any boards 
or a PIC 
compiler/burner.

I will try to find my schematics and code to port to Arduino.

Joe

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 10:28:46 AM UTC-5, Caleb Smith wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, I'm putting this out here to see if the community can help me 
> figure out how to control this scooter controller as easily as possible. 
> So I have two of these controllers I'd like to put into my Locust
>
> https://www.allelectronics.com/item/msc-250/250-watt-controller-for-brushless-motors/1.html
>  
> 
> They use a switch to control direction and a 10k pot to regulate speed. 
> I'm not sure how to go about making these RC controllable like a standard 
> etc. Two forms of control will be needed, one to move the pot to control 
> speed and one to control the switch for direction. How to go about doing 
> that in an effective manner that will allow full control has me a bit 
> stumped. I know Frank developed a fancy control board for the brushed 
> unidirectional controllers, but I don't know if it would work for these or 
> if they're even available anymore. 
> If you all could give some ideas I'd appreciate it. Hopefully I'll be able 
> to get the Locust running again soon. 
> Thanks, 
> Caleb 

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