Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
I will use a lot of copper to save 1%. 6% is significant. For an off grid system, the angle is a major issue. At 12:35 PM 2/21/2011, you wrote: Jim, Obviously, your latitude will make a big difference. The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle. Also, I'd want to know if that data was taken using just I/V curves or through a controller which had MPPT capabilities. In a real world situation with MPPT, I'm guessing that matching the array tilt to the sun angle would make more than a 6% difference at 40°+ latitudes. Besides, what's wrong with an extra 6%?? Cheers, bob-O On Feb 19, 2011, at 8:03 PM, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote: At least that's the conclusion of Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. The largest difference of the [PV] plant yield was less than 6% for tilt angles between 0° and 70°. This begs the question, where did the notion that tilt to latitude is critical come from. Surely NREL or someone else has tested this concept before. Anyway if N-S angle energy production loss is only 6% to +/-35° then E-W should be too, right? But it's not. Here's why. If you measured irradiance at 10°-70° only at noon over 12 months, the air mass would at its minimum during the entire test and so irradiance deviation would be too. AM would not be constant at +/- 35° E-W which has been verified by NREL and others for a long time, AM increases the further from solar noon the sun gets. But if the Earths tilt is 23.5 degrees and Gottfried measured to 35 degrees, the difference is 11.5 degrees at summer and winter solstice. And if your array angle is +/- 11.5 deg from true south, rule of thumb is that irradiance losses are minimal. Maybe only 6% or so. This puts the significance of array tilt in a whole new light. Pun intended... Of course there is a fee to download the entire document but the abstract is here http://tinyurl.com/4zf2sykhttp://tinyurl.com/4zf2syk http://www.scopus.com/record/display.url?eid=2-s2.0-78951495350origin=inwardtxGid=kX6CkwoH_w_VL01NbmaciIC%3a2 Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Need KC120 modules?
Friends: I have access to 80 KC-120 modules in case anyone needs to replace a damaged module or fill out a rack. Also, a Xantrex 5548 IPP. Contact me off list. William Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
“The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Roy, I have always coated terminals before assembling them, then added a final coat to the tightened terminal assemblies. That's just how I was taught years ago and never saw reason to change. It's also one of the tasks I give a homeowner who wants to get involved in some parts of the installation; owners tend to like this, and it saves them money doing a careful but tedious task. But I haven't knowingly had the problem Russ has described. Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/22/2011 5:29 PM, Roy Butler wrote: Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
I've seen problems reusing jumpers with old quick coat on them.. I figured it must have dried out or something... might have even found someplace that suggested that all terminals be thoroughly cleaned, inspected and redressed anytime the connection is broken.. I ran into one customer who was advised (By a "battery professional") that wire brushes caused significant resistance in battery / lug connections.. and recommended using only razor blades to clean connections.. not sure I'm buying that one.. but you never know the way I do connections.. I make sure everything is clean, (Yes with a wire brush) then apply smutz (following the instructions of whatever smutz I'm using) then I like to snug connections a little and then wiggle the jumpers back and forth to give them a bit of a seat before torquing them... (I also like to use flat and lock washers). then I give all exposed metal a final once over with smutz... I've had pretty good luck so far... seen some at 5+ Years as pristine as when I assembled them.. and others start to scum out in less than two... over all I think using quick coat (Or something like it) is better than not... but yes.. I have seen dried out quick coat cause connection failures... dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com Date: Tue, February 22, 2011 7:12 pm To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Years ago on this list we had a good discussion on the subject of battery terminal protection. The favorite at that time (by a geographically diverse group of installers) was to use a light coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline or generic versions). We continue to use it after 25 years of good results. We use an old toothbrush to apply it. I did try Quick Cote about 12 years ago and was not impressed. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:29 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Hi everyone Weve been selling this stuff for over a decade, but we learned that, when using QuickCote never put it between the mating surfaces, it makes a lousy connection. It does however seal out corrosion quite well (better than Vaseline) and if applied right should last ten years. Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer t...@thesolar.biz 575-539-2111 X 301 Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:47 PM To: Roy Butler Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles Roy, I have always coated terminals before assembling them, then added a final coat to the tightened terminal assemblies. That's just how I was taught years ago and never saw reason to change. It's also one of the tasks I give a homeowner who wants to get involved in some parts of the installation; owners tend to like this, and it saves them money doing a careful but tedious task. But I haven't knowingly had the problem Russ has described. Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/22/2011 5:29 PM, Roy Butler wrote: Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 http://www.four-winds-energy.com www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Hmmm, I guess there could be a factor that enters into it due to the curvature of the earth but the difference between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, the extent of relative solar movement, is 47 degrees and that’s not about to change. From: Dave Palumbo Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
At noon LST the sun is latitude angle from Zenith, the solar declination is 23.5 degrees and the sun on the solstices is above and below the equinox position by the declination. Everywhere on earth, however the day length varies and the sunset angle varies depending upon latitude. From: Tom Elliot t...@wagonmaker.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 8:16:54 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? Hmmm, I guess there could be a factor that enters into it due to the curvature of the earth but the difference between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, the extent of relative solar movement, is 47 degrees and that’s not about to change. From: Dave Palumbo Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
OK. I understand fully the declination, heck I live below the tropic of Cancer so get to experience the Lahaina Noon phenomenon. I also understand sun angle above the horizon but that’s not what the original comment was about. It was about the *difference* between winter and summer sun angles relative to a high latitude point on the globe and my argument is that it is the same everywhere, i.e. 47 degrees difference between the low N/S point of the sun at noon versus the high N/S point at noon. That doesn’t change. At one latitude the sun may “bottom out” at 12 degrees above the horizon and at another it may bottom out at 40 degrees above the horizon but the difference between that the top point at each latitude is still 47 degrees. From: Darryl Thayer Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:19 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? At noon LST the sun is latitude angle from Zenith, the solar declination is 23.5 degrees and the sun on the solstices is above and below the equinox position by the declination. Everywhere on earth, however the day length varies and the sunset angle varies depending upon latitude. From: Tom Elliot t...@wagonmaker.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 8:16:54 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? Hmmm, I guess there could be a factor that enters into it due to the curvature of the earth but the difference between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, the extent of relative solar movement, is 47 degrees and that’s not about to change. From: Dave Palumbo Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
David: Here is a handy site: http://www.susdesign.com/sunangle/ Put in the information from your neighborhood for winter and summer solstice and get back to us on the difference. In my neighborhood, the sun altitude angle at noon on winter solstice is about 31.6 degrees. On summer solstice at noon (not corrected for DST) the sun altitude angle is 78.4 degrees. The difference is 46.8 degrees. I realize that solar noon is slightly different from clock noon, but the answers you get at clock noon should be very close to correct for solar noon. William Miller At 05:51 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0036_01CBD2D2.4189DBF0 Content-Language: en-us Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. Thatâs a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? âThe further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.â Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Hi William: I got 46.9 degrees from the site. I feel comfortable calling that 47 degrees. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: William Miller will...@millersolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 9:43:22 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? David: Here is a handy site: http://www.susdesign.com/sunangle/ Put in the information from your neighborhood for winter and summer solstice and get back to us on the difference. In my neighborhood, the sun altitude angle at noon on winter solstice is about 31.6 degrees. On summer solstice at noon (not corrected for DST) the sun altitude angle is 78.4 degrees. The difference is 46.8 degrees. I realize that solar noon is slightly different from clock noon, but the answers you get at clock noon should be very close to correct for solar noon. William Miller At 05:51 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0036_01CBD2D2.4189DBF0 Content-Language: en-us Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
We have used several products over the years and Vaseline has worked as well as any other product. Probably slightly less toxic than other options though not by much. I have seen it affected by a 'hot ' battery bank and seen it run to a thinner coating. Normally a bank should not get this hot but with the old relay style charge controllers stuff used to happen. Dana Orzel Great Solar works, Inc. E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.414 C - 970.209.4076 Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:16 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles Years ago on this list we had a good discussion on the subject of battery terminal protection. The favorite at that time (by a geographically diverse group of installers) was to use a light coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline or generic versions). We continue to use it after 25 years of good results. We use an old toothbrush to apply it. I did try Quick Cote about 12 years ago and was not impressed. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:29 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Allan: We have had problems if battery terminals are not absolutely clean and dry when mating to connectors. We use a wire brush, usually chucked in a small right-angle grinder. We apply no coating until connections are done and tested. We then apply a spray product we purchase at Napa Auto. It drys eventually to a non-sticky consistency. William Miller At 04:12 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Nick and William, You’re right and more specific than I was. I generalized to 47 degrees but the difference is really minor. Actual location of the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn is approximately 23.44 degrees and that location varies by about a half second a year but it is minor in terms of this discussion. This has been helpful because I’ve always simply referred to it as 23.5 degrees N and S so knowing the specific location and the minor variation is interesting information. But anyone’s specific latitude location on the planet is really irrelevant to the difference between Solstices in terms of degrees of tilt. It is the same everywhere. Tom From: William Miller Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:43 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? David: Here is a handy site: http://www.susdesign.com/sunangle/ Put in the information from your neighborhood for winter and summer solstice and get back to us on the difference. In my neighborhood, the sun altitude angle at noon on winter solstice is about 31.6 degrees. On summer solstice at noon (not corrected for DST) the sun altitude angle is 78.4 degrees. The difference is 46.8 degrees. I realize that solar noon is slightly different from clock noon, but the answers you get at clock noon should be very close to correct for solar noon. William Miller At 05:51 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0036_01CBD2D2.4189DBF0 Content-Language: en-us Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. Thatâs a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? âThe further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.â Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
