Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?
I have to agree with Larry… a properly sized, designed and charged series battery bank does not need “magic elixir” and if you add it to an old poorly designed bank it still will be poorly designed, even if you could fix the hard sulphation the problem would re-appear. I have never seen this stuff work however in my 45 years in the battery business. Kind Regards Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 3:16 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word? If this is a fancy name for EDTA, perhaps 10 years ago I went through virtually all of the previous 15 years of Chemical Abstracts to see if there were ANY reference to its working. And while there were hundreds of scholarly abstracts on lead acid chemistry, there was only 1 that mentioned EDTA and that was a mixed review and attributed any benefit to the ion with which EDTA was combined as a salt. Like desulfators, there may be anecdotal hearsay, but little science. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights Manhattan, KS From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]mailto:[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hill Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 12:33 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word? Try Thermoil deslphator additive. Has good reviews. We are selling it. Jon Hill Sierra Solar Systems On May 28, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systemsla...@starlightsolar.commailto:la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Dan, I'm perplexed. Where was anything mentioned about de-sulphators? Where was anyone slammed? What in the world are you talking about? Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else's thread. BTW, I do not recommend a desulfator or pulser be installed on batteries. I'll reiterate my points: 1. KC-120's from a certain production era fail and can be warranted. 2. Applying enough load will cause full current to flow from a PV array. 3. Sulfated batteries have high resistance causing a quick rise in voltage. I welcome your response but please reply off list. Respectfully yours, Larry On May 28, 2012, at 6:42 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.commailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com d...@foxfire-energy.commailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote: Seems I have a stalwart Battery Specialist in the neighborhood still convincing folks that de sulphators are the smartest thing since sliced bread (And slamming anyone who disagrees). In my experience, sparklers have little to no effect on battery longevity and in most cases add unlisted, hazardous and unnecessary wiring devices to a potentially hazardous environment. Is tar and feathering still an acceptable means of dispute resolution.. or am I totally missing something? tks db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.comhttp://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/ NABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Off-grid PV From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.commailto:la...@starlightsolar.com Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 7:37 pm To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi Eric, Check the dates on the KC-120 module label. If any were manufactured between January 1999 and December 2002, they have or will fail. We have been replacing these modules for over 8 years now. There was a defective solder joint during manufacture. Kyocera will still replace them under warranty even though they have no legal requirement to do so. They will ship you remanufactured 120's and pay for return shipping. Contact Kyocera about the procedure. If the batteries are sulfated, they will not produce the load necessary to drive the current high. Capacity has nothing to do with it; internal resistance does. You can test the array by pulling the voltage down (turn on some big loads) at solar noon. This will force the controller into bulk and reveal the maximum current the array can produce. I think you have two problems here. With bad modules, you may not see much. It is typical for a controller to transition to float very early in the charge cycle if the battery is sulfated. Look for a fast rise in voltage in the morning. This is an indicator of sulfated battery. A healthy battery will slowly climb in voltage. Let me k now if you need more understanding about batteries, charging and why MOST of them never see old age. It's my speciality. Larry Crutcher
[RE-wrenches] C100 controller repair
Wrenches, Anyone know how to contact John Klima, past COSEIA president. I had used his services in the past to repair an old C100 Diff. Controller. Thanks in advance! Jeremy, All Solar, Inc. Jeremy and Amy Rodriguez 1463 M St Penrose, CO 81240 www.asolarelectric.com Phone 719-372-3808 Fax 719-372-3804 Email allso...@scswifi.net Email allso...@live.com___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling
Dana, Please contact me off list and I'll get you a couple of drawings... They are too big for the list. If anyone else wants them I'll send them to you to. Also keep and eye on Solar Pro, we just finished a good article on ac coupling. Steve Higgins Sales Application Engineering Mgr African Business Development Mgr. Direct 360-618-4313 Outback Power Technologies 5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:34 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling I currently have a dual Outback GTVFX system for the office at home and am adding an SMA 4KW GIT system. We are going for 100% solar powered on the office home. Yahoo! I would like to be able to AC support the battery based GTVFX system in the event of an extended power outage. I spoke with Outback and they said to feed the output of the GTVFX[s], that they did not have a drawing to support this installation. Would anyone who has done this setup, be willing to share a one line or schematic drawing? Thanks in advance. Dana Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc - E - d...@solarwork.com - V 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 Please consider the environment before printing this email NABCEP # 051112-136 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SMA HF inverters
We're seeing a disturbing frequency of problems with the 2, 2.5 and 3 kW Sunny Boy HF inverters. Anyone else having issues as well? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Corrective EQ question
Allan, My first thought about the high s.g. measurements is that the electrolyte level may have been low when the measurements were made. When full, there is about a liter of electrolyte above the plates in a L16. The s.g. will rise by 0.03 if the electrolyte level is at the top of the plates. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 6/1/2012 1:28 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, A long-time off grid client has a 48V Outback VFX system, with 1,680 watts of PV and two strings (16 batteries total) of Deka L16s, installed last October. The array is undersized, as the system is running three households; one efficient home and two single-person tiny homes, but still too much for the system. We learned a few weeks ago that the system had apparently stayed at 30-50% SOC for the entire winter (this is approximate, as her TriMetric monitors would eventually drift away from % accuracy if never allowed to get full and reset). Eventually the batteries became sufficiently sulfated that the system began shutting down. As the batteries were nearly new, we figured that the sulfation had not yet become permanently crystallized, and they could recover. We initiated a long corrective equalization from her combined generator (45A DC from the single inverter) and MX60 controller, for a maximum C/12.5 charge rate; less in proportion to any loads that were on while charging. She ran this procedure for three hours/day for five days, and when that offered only partial recovery (as measured by specific gravity measured with a refractometer), ran for six hours/day for five days. During this time the MX60 was also manually set to EQ each morning, with a 62V EQ voltage and 3 hour EQ time, so that the array would add its amperage to the gennie until the batteries had been above this setting for three hours. We went out there yesterday, arriving while the EQ was in process. All of the cells had recovered, as measured by SG. SG readings were all in the 1.280 - 1.300 range, with most above 1.290. We had never seen SG readings this high before. Given the situation and the back story, should we have any concern about the high SG readings? Thank you, Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* _Allan@positiveenergysolar.com_ mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* _www.positiveenergysolar.com_ http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
