Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
We use tek screws, get them through fastenall even through plywood into the
steel. After your done in the attic to verify that you hit just to be safe.
We have done pull out tests with great results. Your application may need
leaded flashing and standoff's.
Jerry
On Jun 6, 2016 1:36 PM, "Peter Giroux"  wrote:

> Chad
>
>   I second August. We have had great success with self tapping screws. Put
> some butyl on the L-foot and set it in.
>
> thx
> peter
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* August Goers 
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Monday, June 06, 2016 6:44 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses
>
> Hi Chad,
>
>
>
> We’ve occasionally installed onto steel trusses with either self drilling
> screws (no pilot required) or thread forming screws (pilot hole required).
> See attached sample spec sheets.
>
>
>
> I suppose you could install a standard tile hook type product with the
> types of fasters I listed above. Or, hire a roofer to waterproof your
> stanchions and reinstall the removed tiles. More and more, we are moving
> towards the latter because we’ve bumped into issues with degrading
> underlayment (felt paper) under tile roofs.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
> Luminalt
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Chad Waits
> *Sent:* Monday, June 06, 2016 3:15 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses
>
>
>
> Wrenches,
>
>
>
> Anyone out there have any experience attaching arrays (from the topside)
> to roofs with steel trusses under plywood decking? We’ve got a new project
> that has steel trusses and we would prefer to not have to spend time in the
> attic bolting through  (it was 113 degrees here today)… Is there a
> fastening system out there that anyone has experience with?
>
>
>
> Oh, the roof is composite/strengthened clay tile as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Chad Waits
>
> President/Owner – Net Zero Solar
>
> 101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705
>
> Office: 520-207-4053
>
> Cell: 520-270-4873
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
> NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

[Tom Duffy]

Hey Chad

E-Jot Makes a fastener for steel that's thread cutting (must be pre drilled) It 
also has a neoprene washer and stainless hardware.

Kind regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
[Real-logo-X-195]
E-Mail: t...@solar-biz.com
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From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chad Waits
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 5:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

Wrenches,

Anyone out there have any experience attaching arrays (from the topside) to 
roofs with steel trusses under plywood decking? We've got a new project that 
has steel trusses and we would prefer to not have to spend time in the attic 
bolting through  (it was 113 degrees here today)... Is there a fastening system 
out there that anyone has experience with?

Oh, the roof is composite/strengthened clay tile as well.

Thanks!

Chad Waits
President/Owner - Net Zero Solar
101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705
Office: 520-207-4053
Cell: 520-270-4873
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer


[cid:image003.png@01D1C01D.BB63CEC0]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

[William Miller]

Chad:



EJOT JZ3:
http://www.ejot-usa.com/products/solar-fastening-systems/for-exposed-fastener-metal-roofs/jz3-for-steel-substructures



Worked great for us on a steel over steel barn.  One problem we had is the
trusses were pre-drilled with too-large holes right where we wanted to
fasten.  We carefully displaced the attachments slightly to miss the
existing holes.



William





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Chad Waits
*Sent:* Monday, June 06, 2016 3:15 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses



Wrenches,



Anyone out there have any experience attaching arrays (from the topside) to
roofs with steel trusses under plywood decking? We’ve got a new project
that has steel trusses and we would prefer to not have to spend time in the
attic bolting through  (it was 113 degrees here today)… Is there a
fastening system out there that anyone has experience with?



Oh, the roof is composite/strengthened clay tile as well.



Thanks!



Chad Waits

President/Owner – Net Zero Solar

101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705

Office: 520-207-4053

Cell: 520-270-4873

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer
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[RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar / MC4 connectors in a marine environment

[Kirk Herander]

Hello,

 

I am debugging a Florida ocean-side 35 kw array using 4 year old Canadian
Solar panels, which I've never had a high opinion of, installed by others.

I've discovered several not-so-good problems, such as low insulation
resistance through the panels, ONLY when raining, early to mid-morning
condensation, or by using the last resort of spraying the panels with a
garden house and watching the SMA inverters shut down due to failing their
self "Riso" (that's the IRT) test creating a ground fault error.

That aside, what's just as interesting is that about 8 or 9 of the module
interconnections were basically oozing the aqua-blue copper tarnish. I've
never seen this in any installation before. Either the MC4s weren't crimped
and tightened at the factory well, or the connectors were seated poorly,
although that doesn't seem to be the case. BTW, I replaced all these dubious
MC4 connectors and the ground faults still occur when the panels are wet.

The bigger issue is the panel warranty, but is there anything on the market
which could seal these connections, perhaps a type of "clamshell" to provide
an extra layer of protection, which is removable if need be? There's always
glue-filled heat shrink, but ideally I don't want anything permanent
surrounding the connectors.

Has anyone ever seen what I'm describing in a marine environment?

 

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 

Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

[Peter Giroux]

Chad

  I second August. We have had great success with self tapping screws. Put some 
butyl on the L-foot and set it in. 

thx
peter
  - Original Message - 
  From: August Goers 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses


  Hi Chad,



  We’ve occasionally installed onto steel trusses with either self drilling 
screws (no pilot required) or thread forming screws (pilot hole required). See 
attached sample spec sheets. 



  I suppose you could install a standard tile hook type product with the types 
of fasters I listed above. Or, hire a roofer to waterproof your stanchions and 
reinstall the removed tiles. More and more, we are moving towards the latter 
because we’ve bumped into issues with degrading underlayment (felt paper) under 
tile roofs. 



  Best,



  August

  Luminalt



  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
Behalf Of Chad Waits
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 3:15 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses



  Wrenches,



  Anyone out there have any experience attaching arrays (from the topside) to 
roofs with steel trusses under plywood decking? We’ve got a new project that 
has steel trusses and we would prefer to not have to spend time in the attic 
bolting through  (it was 113 degrees here today)… Is there a fastening system 
out there that anyone has experience with?



  Oh, the roof is composite/strengthened clay tile as well.



  Thanks!



  Chad Waits

  President/Owner – Net Zero Solar

  101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705

  Office: 520-207-4053

  Cell: 520-270-4873

  NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

  NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer









--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof

[Michael Welch]

FYI, folks.

http://homepower.com/143.92
Benn Kilburn wrote at 01:22 PM 6/6/2016:
 
I'm still using the same mod
lift for the past 6-8 years, with very minor modifications. I used the
design that was in HomePower years ago. I switched out strut for pieces
of our module rack/rail to make it lighter. 
Keep in mind that specific design only works with a fiberglass ladder
with a particular design top on it.  We have an office in a neighbor
city that built one a bit different that works on top of a typical
aluminum ladder.
 From hoist set-up, mods up, to packed up, i'd challenge anyone with one
of the mechanical module lifts to keep up on a two story roof
install.  One guy can have ours set up in under 5min and you can
have mods on the roof in under a minute each, round trip (walking from
the van/trailer to the lift with a module, hoisting it, lowering the lift
and back to get another module).  Its safe, fast and KISS.
No doubt that one of the mechanical ones would be nice for much larger
jobs. And i like that some have articulating sections that can flatten
out to run parallel with some roofs. But i've seen how much room they
take up.  You need an empty van or trailer just to move the pieces
themselves.
Benn Kilburn 
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy
Inc
6706  82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 |
www.skyfireenergy.com



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[RE-wrenches] Steel Trusses

[Chad Waits]

Wrenches,

Anyone out there have any experience attaching arrays (from the topside) to
roofs with steel trusses under plywood decking? We¹ve got a new project that
has steel trusses and we would prefer to not have to spend time in the attic
bolting through  (it was 113 degrees here today)Š Is there a fastening
system out there that anyone has experience with?

Oh, the roof is composite/strengthened clay tile as well.

Thanks!

Chad Waits
President/Owner ­ Net Zero Solar
101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705
Office: 520-207-4053
Cell: 520-270-4873
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer




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Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof

[Phil Forest]

Benn, 
We have many different methods to get panels up to a roof, depending on the 
situation. I agree, mechanical lifts take a lot of time and resources to use, 
for typical residential installs. 
Getting panels up to a residential roof quickly, easily and safely is my 
biggest roof install challenge.
Thanks for sharing your positive appraisal of that mod lift from Homepower. I 
almost made one. I've only heard good things about it. However, I went a 
different route, and made a backpack to carry modules up a ladder, any ladder, 
instead.
When the backpacker gets to the eave of the roof, someone else that's on the 
roof removes it from the backpack. The primary benefits are that it fits in a 
van easily, 1 minute set up, the backpacker has two hands free to climb the 
ladder, and after the module is removed from the pack at the roof eave, the 
backpacker has the option to continue onto the roof to assist in the module 
installation if needed (good when it's only a 2 man crew and a steep roof). 
No problems with wind, yet, but we only install mods in calm or light winds. 
See "solar pack 100" thread that I posted, for past discussion. 
I made a short video of it in use, but it's too much data to post here, let me 
know off thread and I can send it to you, if interested. 
But it sounds like you have a good method already. 

Phil Forest

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 4:22 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> I'm still using the same mod lift for the past 6-8 years, with very minor 
> modifications. I used the design that was in HomePower years ago. I switched 
> out strut for pieces of our module rack/rail to make it lighter. 
> Keep in mind that specific design only works with a fiberglass ladder with a 
> particular design top on it.  We have an office in a neighbor city that built 
> one a bit different that works on top of a typical aluminum ladder.
> 
> From hoist set-up, mods up, to packed up, i'd challenge anyone with one of 
> the mechanical module lifts to keep up on a two story roof install.  One guy 
> can have ours set up in under 5min and you can have mods on the roof in under 
> a minute each, round trip (walking from the van/trailer to the lift with a 
> module, hoisting it, lowering the lift and back to get another module).  Its 
> safe, fast and KISS.
> 
> No doubt that one of the mechanical ones would be nice for much larger jobs. 
> And i like that some have articulating sections that can flatten out to run 
> parallel with some roofs. But i've seen how much room they take up.  You need 
> an empty van or trailer just to move the pieces themselves.
> 
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Dana Brandt  wrote:
>> Hi Wrenches,
>> 
>> I'm curious if anyone has updates to this thread 3 years later. What are 
>> people using to lift modules to the roof? 
>> 
>> I've been looking at ladder hoists online and wondering how well they'd work 
>> in practice. Any experience or advice?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Dana
>> 
>> Dana Brandt
>> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
>> www.ecotechenergy.com
>> d...@ecotechenergy.com
>> 360.318.7646
>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:44 AM, August Goers  wrote:
>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I imagine that all of us working in rooftop PV have put some good hard 
>>> thought on the best way to get the modules up to the roof. There are 
>>> various lifts on the market, you can hoist them with ropes manually, or 
>>> walk them up a ladder (sling them over your back). I find that the majority 
>>> of our competition in the Bay Area walks panels up the ladder for 
>>> residential projects. What is your feeling about OSHA compliance of doing 
>>> this?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> August
>>> 
>>> 415.559.1525
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof

[Benn Kilburn]

I'm still using the same mod lift for the past 6-8 years, with very minor
modifications. I used the design that was in HomePower years ago. I
switched out strut for pieces of our module rack/rail to make it lighter.
Keep in mind that specific design only works with a fiberglass ladder with
a particular design top on it.  We have an office in a neighbor city that
built one a bit different that works on top of a typical aluminum ladder.

>From hoist set-up, mods up, to packed up, i'd challenge anyone with one of
the mechanical module lifts to keep up on a two story roof install.  One
guy can have ours set up in under 5min and you can have mods on the roof in
under a minute each, round trip (walking from the van/trailer to the lift
with a module, hoisting it, lowering the lift and back to get another
module).  Its safe, fast and KISS.

No doubt that one of the mechanical ones would be nice for much larger
jobs. And i like that some have articulating sections that can flatten out
to run parallel with some roofs. But i've seen how much room they take up.
You need an empty van or trailer just to move the pieces themselves.

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
[image: email]  [image: facebook]
 [image: twitter]
 [image: linkedin]

 [image: google] 

[image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Dana Brandt  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I'm curious if anyone has updates to this thread 3 years later. What are
> people using to lift modules to the roof?
>
> I've been looking at ladder hoists online and wondering how well they'd
> work in practice. Any experience or advice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
> Dana Brandt
> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
> www.ecotechenergy.com
> d...@ecotechenergy.com
> 360.318.7646
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:44 AM, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>>
>>
>> I imagine that all of us working in rooftop PV have put some good hard
>> thought on the best way to get the modules up to the roof. There are
>> various lifts on the market, you can hoist them with ropes manually, or
>> walk them up a ladder (sling them over your back). I find that the majority
>> of our competition in the Bay Area walks panels up the ladder for
>> residential projects. What is your feeling about OSHA compliance of doing
>> this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> August
>>
>> 415.559.1525
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
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>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling with SolarEdge

[Howie Michaelson]

Brian,
Thanks, it came through perfectly! Am I correct to assume that the SE
inverter will only respond to a PRI Port input signal to ramp output up and
down and not a frequency shift? I'll have to check if there is someway to
use that function with the XW. When I spoke with SolarEdge support, they
said they are not supporting this function anymore. Do you know if that
means SE won't supply technical support or that their inverters don't have
that capability any more?

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
802-272-0004

> Hi Howie,
>
>
>
> I don’t know if pdf attachments will show up on this list, but I am
attaching the OutBack tech note on AC-Coupling with SolarEdge
>
>
>
> If the attachment doesn’t go through, email me off-list.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
> AEE Solar
>
> bteitelb...@aeesolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Howie Michaelson
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:56 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling with SolarEdge
>
>
>
> Hi all,
> Apparently SolarEdge is no longer officially supporting or warranting AC
Coupling - maybe because they now have the StorEdge option (has anyone
actually seen one for sale and/or operating). In any case, since I have
sold prior to missing that memo and am now in the position of installing a
battery backup system using an SE5000US and a Schneider XW5548, I am
needing to figure the details out without any support from either Schneider
or SolarEdge (SolarEdge tech support referred me to Outback tech support
saying Outback has recommendations for AC coupling with SE, but the techs I
spoke with at Outback are vague at best when talking about AC coupling with
any inverter and even less forthcoming when talking about SE).
>
> Does anyone know whether SE inverters still respond to frequency shift
and what those parameters are? I will install a failsafe relay to
disconnect the SE inverter upon high battery voltage, but it would be
useful to know what, if at all, the set points for power limiting are in
the SE inverter. Any info or leads would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Howie
>
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>
> Sun Catcher
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
> 802-272-0004
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] AC coupling with SolarEdge

[Howie Michaelson]

Hi all,
Apparently SolarEdge is no longer officially supporting or warranting AC
Coupling - maybe because they now have the StorEdge option (has anyone
actually seen one for sale and/or operating). In any case, since I have
sold prior to missing that memo and am now in the position of installing a
battery backup system using an SE5000US and a Schneider XW5548, I am
needing to figure the details out without any support from either Schneider
or SolarEdge (SolarEdge tech support referred me to Outback tech support
saying Outback has recommendations for AC coupling with SE, but the techs I
spoke with at Outback are vague at best when talking about AC coupling with
any inverter and even less forthcoming when talking about SE).

Does anyone know whether SE inverters still respond to frequency shift and
what those parameters are? I will install a failsafe relay to disconnect
the SE inverter upon high battery voltage, but it would be useful to know
what, if at all, the set points for power limiting are in the SE inverter.
Any info or leads would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Howie

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
802-272-0004
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Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof

[wirewiz]

Dana and August,

I have used a patent pending prototype of a solar module lifting system that I 
like very much, complies with OSHA and solves all the lifting issues.

I know the founder and he is looking for some feedback from installers to gain 
some industry traction while talking to potential investors.

Attached is a photo but more detailed info can be found at:. 
https://www.facebook.com/solargoat



Larry Liesner
Ross Solar Group
203-644-2404

On Jun 3, 2016, at 11:07 AM, August Goers wrote:

> Dana,
>  
> We still aren’t using the portable lifts. I’ve spoken with a few people from 
> other companies who have the lifts and they said that most of the time they 
> just sit in the warehouse. Certainly they are helpful for particularly tough 
> jobs.
>  
> Our crews are using glass suction cups to hoist panels up with ropes or 
> sometimes sling them over their shoulders.  We have several of these:
>  
> http://www.amazon.com/Woods-Powr-Grip-Vacuum-Metal-Handle/dp/B000KWTXZ6?ie=UTF8=1=true_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
>  
> We learned this trick from one of our installers who previously worked 
> installing big glass windows on high rises. They provide a very convenient 
> and sturdy handle to hold modules.
>  
> We also have one of the ladder hoists similar to the one shown in Homepower:
>  
> http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/design-installation/pv-module-lift
>  
>  
> -August
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Dana Brandt
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 3:26 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof
>  
> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> I'm curious if anyone has updates to this thread 3 years later. What are 
> people using to lift modules to the roof? 
> 
> I've been looking at ladder hoists online and wondering how well they'd work 
> in practice. Any experience or advice?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dana
> 
> Dana Brandt
> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
> www.ecotechenergy.com
> d...@ecotechenergy.com
> 360.318.7646
>  
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:44 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> Hi Wrenches,
>  
> I imagine that all of us working in rooftop PV have put some good hard 
> thought on the best way to get the modules up to the roof. There are various 
> lifts on the market, you can hoist them with ropes manually, or walk them up 
> a ladder (sling them over your back). I find that the majority of our 
> competition in the Bay Area walks panels up the ladder for residential 
> projects. What is your feeling about OSHA compliance of doing this?
>  
> Best,
>  
>  
> August
> 415.559.1525
> 
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