Re: [RE-wrenches] Undersize wire on REC meter lug

2016-09-02 Thread Mark Westbrock 
Most 200A meter cans have a minimum wire size of #6.  The Milbank K4977-EXT
tap connector might do the trick to get you down to #12 if your utility
will allow it:
http://www.milbankworks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/TapConnectors_6-13_Web.pdf
.
I think that it will work without a wire under the main lug.

We love the Milbank U5934XL
,
which accepts down to #12.  It is our standard for residential REC meter
cans.

Cheers,

Mark


Mark Westbrock|  VP, Branch Manager |  Employee Owner
NABCEP™ Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP™ Certified
Technical Sales Professional
NM EE98J Licensed Electrician
510 S. Main St., Las Cruces, NM 88001
cell  575.640.2432 |  office  575.524.2030
m...@positiveenergysolar.com  
www.PositiveEnergySolar.com 


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Daniel
> What is the minimum size the lug will except
> Jerry
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Daniel Tittmann 
> wrote:
>
>> wondering if anyone has a simple lug solution for a problem i found my
>> self in.
>> with out looking I used a meter socket for a REC meter that is not rated
>> for #12 AWG wire.  it is on a 20 breaker but wire size is too small for the
>> lugs.  Is there a simple Lug solution that will pass muster or do I need to
>> up size wire or swap out the meter socket?
>>
>> problem with up sizing the wire is we ran 1/2 conduit so we can only go
>> up to #10. without overfilling or replacing the conduit run.
>> Hoping there is experience out there that can point me to a simple
>> solution.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Daniel Tittmann
>> CTO
>> Greenwired
>> www.greenwired.com
>> dan...@greenwired.com
>> 707-923-2001 (office)
>> 707-206-5088 (Cell)
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Undersize wire on REC meter lug

2016-09-02 Thread Jerry Shafer 
Daniel
What is the minimum size the lug will except
Jerry

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Daniel Tittmann 
wrote:

> wondering if anyone has a simple lug solution for a problem i found my
> self in.
> with out looking I used a meter socket for a REC meter that is not rated
> for #12 AWG wire.  it is on a 20 breaker but wire size is too small for the
> lugs.  Is there a simple Lug solution that will pass muster or do I need to
> up size wire or swap out the meter socket?
>
> problem with up sizing the wire is we ran 1/2 conduit so we can only go up
> to #10. without overfilling or replacing the conduit run.
> Hoping there is experience out there that can point me to a simple
> solution.
> Thanks
>
> Daniel Tittmann
> CTO
> Greenwired
> www.greenwired.com
> dan...@greenwired.com
> 707-923-2001 (office)
> 707-206-5088 (Cell)
>
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> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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[RE-wrenches] Undersize wire on REC meter lug

2016-09-02 Thread Daniel Tittmann 
wondering if anyone has a simple lug solution for a problem i found my self
in.
with out looking I used a meter socket for a REC meter that is not rated
for #12 AWG wire.  it is on a 20 breaker but wire size is too small for the
lugs.  Is there a simple Lug solution that will pass muster or do I need to
up size wire or swap out the meter socket?

problem with up sizing the wire is we ran 1/2 conduit so we can only go up
to #10. without overfilling or replacing the conduit run.
Hoping there is experience out there that can point me to a simple
solution.
Thanks

Daniel Tittmann
CTO
Greenwired
www.greenwired.com
dan...@greenwired.com
707-923-2001 (office)
707-206-5088 (Cell)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries

2016-09-02 Thread Starlight Solar Power Systems 
Hi Tom,

Will you share the failures you had with the testing you did? How long ago was 
the test? It looks to me like Rolls Battery has chosen FullRiver as their OEM 
supplier for AGM batteries. I’m very sure they tested extensively and choose 
carefully.
 
Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Sep 2, 2016, at 10:40 AM, Tom Duffy  wrote:

Gary
 
A number of years ago I designed the back-up system for the Washington DC Metro 
System communications in conjunction with Apollo Solar. After extensive testing 
of both the Concorde and Full River brand batteries. We chose Concorde 
SunXtender because of failures in the Full River during testing.
 
Kind regards
 
Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer

E-Mail: t...@solar-biz.com 
**Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: 
t...@solar-biz.com  Please update your records so we 
don’t lose touch!**
Main Number: 888-826-0939
Panama Office: 507-836-5588 X 122
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111 X 122
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz (e-mail first)
 
NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and 
oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the end of 
the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries

2016-09-02 Thread Tom Duffy 
Gary

A number of years ago I designed the back-up system for the Washington DC Metro 
System communications in conjunction with Apollo Solar. After extensive testing 
of both the Concorde and Full River brand batteries. We chose Concorde 
SunXtender because of failures in the Full River during testing.

Kind regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
[New-Logo-Solar-BiZ]
E-Mail: t...@solar-biz.com
**Please note my new email - You will now be able to find me at: 
t...@solar-biz.com Please update your records so we 
don't lose touch!**
Main Number: 888-826-0939
Panama Office: 507-836-5588 X 122
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111 X 122
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz (e-mail first)

NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and 
oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the end of 
the tunnel, has been turned off... It should have been solar.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Gary Willett
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 9:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries


Larry:

What is your experience with FullRiver DC1150-2 2V 1150AH AGM L16 battery?

Regards,
Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering LLC
214-629-4279



On 9/1/16 8:51 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
Hear, Hear, Gary, listen to the Graybeards.

One thing I would like to mention here. Over the last 3 years, I have seen a 
dramatic increase of early failures of Lifeline (like Sun Xtender, made by 
Concorde) batteries. I have been selling and installing Lifeline since 2004 and 
have hundreds of 8-12 year old battery systems being used. I have not been able 
to identify any cause related to use.

So, has anyone seen Sun Xtender or Concorde early failures in recent years?
BTW, we have been selling FullRiver batteries for a few years now with no 
failures and very happy customers.

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103



On Sep 1, 2016, at 6:19 PM, jay 
> wrote:

HI Ray,

I second your opinion.

jay

peltz power
On Sep 1, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Ray Walters 
> wrote:

Hi Gary;

I think it would be a waste of time to load test a sealed battery that is 9 
years old.  Even at only 20% discharge, that battery only has 2800 cycles.  At 
80% discharge, its 550 cycles.  The daily system cycle is probably roughly a 
10% cycle, coupled with the frequent deep cycles.  We have been seeing 5 to 7 
years in GTB systems with regular sealed batteries.  Even in float mode, they 
don't last forever.
Also the customer has already done a basic load test, and the battery is 
failing.  Its only a matter of time before you start seeing cell failures, and 
then the system won't even work when the grid is up.
I'd just replace the set on your next trip.


R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760
On 9/1/2016 2:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
Wrenches
You can do a carbon pile test but the best way is testing under several 
conditions. Here is an option real easy and maybe faster, put a volt meter on 
each battery under constant charge conditions, higher volts on one battery 
meens high resistance in battery, low volts meens low resistance, either 
extreme can be an issue.  Then let sit for at least an hour with no load and 
check the volts, next put a fixed load on the system, again a volt meter check 
each battery,  here you may find a lower reading then the rest, there is the 
problem, now replace the entire bank not just the single battery. This is an 
easy test and the customer can see it easily too.
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S(tm) III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Gary Bassett
Date:09/01/2016 2:51 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: "RE-wrenches 
(re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org)"
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries

We have a grid tied battery backup system that uses 8 Sun Xtender PVX-2120L 
batteries, about 9 years old. The grid has been going out frequently - about 4 
times in the past 3 weeks. When the grid goes out, the battery voltage gets too 
low and shuts the system down pretty quickly. One of the times, this happened 
within 4 hours. We want to test the capacity of the batteries and we have a 
testing procedure from Concorde that seems like it would take a lot of time.

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Tripower

2016-09-02 Thread August Goers 
I checked the math and it indeed seems like a rounding issue – 20,000 W /
480 V / √3 = 24.05626122 A



I wonder if the SMA tech support agent that Brian spoke with was just
reading the manual when they said it was 24.1 A. Regardless, it seems like
we would need to rely on the manufacturer to clarify their intent when the
nameplate and manuals don’t match up. I had been taught to rely on the
nameplate right on the device when all else fails.



Hopefully no one has a situation where this actually matters!



August

Luminalt



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Garrison Riegel
*Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 6:39 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Tripower



Hi Brian,



Can we not invoke Art. 220.5(B) Fractions of an Ampere to round down to a
30A OCPD in this case?



I suppose that .1 could be pretty significant when combining many of these
inverters.



Garrison Riegel

Solar Service Inc


On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:24 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:

Hey Wrenches-

Just a heads up on the SMA Tripower - I like the inverter, but you gotta
read the install manual!



Spec sheet says 24 A continuous output current for the 20 kW Tripower.
Install manual (and tech support) says 24.1.  That  extra .1 A takes you
from a 30 A to a 35 A breaker.



Of course you should follow the install manual not the specs.  But what
about the label on the side of the inverter?  Well I've seen more than a
handful that are labeled with a flat-out 24 Aac output current.  What's an
installer or inspector to do besides hope mfg's can get their numbers in
order?



Upon closer examination, most of the STPs are 0.1 A higher than their spec
sheet per the install manual - it doesn't really make a difference on the
12 or 15 kW models - just the 20 where you have to go up 1 standard OCPD
size.  Pretty sure there's lots of 20 kW units out there backfeeding a 30 A
breaker.  Hm



Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59

520.204.6639



Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org



SEI Professional Services

http://www.seisolarpros.com



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries

2016-09-02 Thread Michael Packard 
Hello all, 
I have 2 sets of Concorde Sun-Extender batts I installed in the one and only 
Richard Perez' home about 4 years ago. One 12v pack and one 24v pack. No signs 
of anything kinky. I try to Re-torque terminals every 1-2 years. I will 
probably re-torque them again next week when I visit. 


Cheers wrenches! 

M.Packard



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Gary,
> 
> We have used those in about 10 systems. Our oldest bank of 2V is about 5 
> years. As with all FullRiver batteries, no one has had any trouble.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 1, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Gary Willett  wrote:
> 
> Larry:
> 
> What is your experience with FullRiver DC1150-2 2V 1150AH AGM L16 battery?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gary Willett
> Icarus Engineering LLC
> 214-629-4279
> 
>> On 9/1/16 8:51 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
>> Hear, Hear, Gary, listen to the Graybeards.
>> 
>> One thing I would like to mention here. Over the last 3 years, I have seen a 
>> dramatic increase of early failures of Lifeline (like Sun Xtender, made by 
>> Concorde) batteries. I have been selling and installing Lifeline since 2004 
>> and have hundreds of 8-12 year old battery systems being used. I have not 
>> been able to identify any cause related to use. 
>> 
>> So, has anyone seen Sun Xtender or Concorde early failures in recent years?  
>>   
>> BTW, we have been selling FullRiver batteries for a few years now with no 
>> failures and very happy customers.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> (928) 342-9103
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 6:19 PM, jay  wrote:
>> 
>> HI Ray,
>> 
>> I second your opinion.  
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Gary;
>>> 
>>> I think it would be a waste of time to load test a sealed battery that is 9 
>>> years old.  Even at only 20% discharge, that battery only has 2800 cycles.  
>>> At 80% discharge, its 550 cycles.  The daily system cycle is probably 
>>> roughly a 10% cycle, coupled with the frequent deep cycles.  We have been 
>>> seeing 5 to 7 years in GTB systems with regular sealed batteries.  Even in 
>>> float mode, they don't last forever.
>>> Also the customer has already done a basic load test, and the battery is 
>>> failing.  Its only a matter of time before you start seeing cell failures, 
>>> and then the system won't even work when the grid is up.
>>> I'd just replace the set on your next trip.
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
 On 9/1/2016 2:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
 Wrenches
 You can do a carbon pile test but the best way is testing under several 
 conditions. Here is an option real easy and maybe faster, put a volt meter 
 on each battery under constant charge conditions, higher volts on one 
 battery meens high resistance in battery, low volts meens low resistance, 
 either extreme can be an issue.  Then let sit for at least an hour with no 
 load and check the volts, next put a fixed load on the system, again a 
 volt meter check each battery,  here you may find a lower reading then the 
 rest, there is the problem, now replace the entire bank not just the 
 single battery. This is an easy test and the customer can see it easily 
 too.
 Jerry
 
 
 Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
 
 
  Original message 
 From: Gary Bassett
 Date:09/01/2016 2:51 AM (GMT-10:00)
 To: "RE-wrenches (re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org)"
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Test procedure for Concorde batteries
 
 We have a grid tied battery backup system that uses 8 Sun Xtender 
 PVX-2120L batteries, about 9 years old. The grid has been going out 
 frequently – about 4 times in the past 3 weeks. When the grid goes out, 
 the battery voltage gets too low and shuts the system down pretty quickly. 
 One of the times, this happened within 4 hours. We want to test the 
 capacity of the batteries and we have a testing procedure from Concorde 
 that seems like it would take a lot of time. Is there a quick way to test 
 the battery capacity?
 
  
 
 Gary
 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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